Re: [Wikitech-l] Some suggestions about the edit page.
On 2010-01-13, Tei wrote: %% The Death of Wiki %% Ultimatelly, al wikis lose the war against entropy and are abandoned. This will hit all wikipedia wikis, and all based on mediawiki. While you can't stop that, you can code something so the resulting dead body of wiki is not pure shit. A possible idea could be to auto-protect pages without edit in N years (4 years), and save id of the last know good version, this can be done flagging the pages as dirty after a edit, and flag pages as clean wen a logged editor say so. Something like Page Milestones. Maybe the History view of a page sould list first the last 10 milestones (newer first), then the dump of all edits. There are probably about more than 10 years to think about this issue. The AbsenteeLandlord extension may fulfil this to a certain extent. [1] [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:AbsenteeLandlord Robert signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Some suggestions about the edit page.
2010/1/13 Robert Leverington rob...@rhl.me.uk: On 2010-01-13, Tei wrote: %% The Death of Wiki %% ... you can't stop that, you can code something so the resulting dead body of wiki is not pure shit. A possible idea could be to auto-protect pages without edit in N years (4 years), ... The AbsenteeLandlord extension may fulfil this to a certain extent. [1] [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:AbsenteeLandlord I am happy, I am not the first one to think about these issues. -- -- ℱin del ℳensaje. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Some suggestions about the edit page.
2010/1/13 Aryeh Gregor simetrical+wikil...@gmail.com: We have this in the Drafts extension, don't we? I don't know what its status is. We at the usability initiative have the intention to integrate that at some point, but no concrete plans yet AFAICT. %% Un-cruft mode %% There seems to be a lot of META information on the wiki, all this metainformation like stub, etc.. sould be optional. There must be a single checkbox option to disable it all. I don't want to read even 1 more citation needed or this is a stub bloat. Maybe default sould be to show cruft. You mean when viewing articles, or editing them? Cutting out cruft when editing is something the usability project is looking into, AFAIK. We're working on that now, yes. Roan Kattouw (Catrope) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Some suggestions about the edit page.
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 7:35 AM, Aryeh Gregor simetrical+wikil...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 6:42 AM, Tei oscar.vi...@gmail.com wrote: %% Not multiple edits on same template %% I think the edit page sould be more smart. If a user open the same page two times, the second time sould be warned that the page is already opened. This may need some trans-window comunication, that is not something browser love to do, but I guest is possible with DOMStorage/Cookies or something else. I don't think there's a reliable way to do this. We can set some type of storage when the user opens an edit page, but we can't reliably unset it when they close the page or navigate away. If there is an autosave type of function, and it is enabled, then one could control for duplicate windows using that communication stream. I actually like the idea of an autosave, but I could see how it might not be a high priority (and could eventually be something of resource hog if people are allowed to leave a lot of uncommitted drafts lying around). You mean when viewing articles, or editing them? Cutting out cruft when editing is something the usability project is looking into, AFAIK. Cruft while viewing is up to the individual projects, not a technical issue -- tell enwiki to use fewer annoying boxes if you don't like them. On the viewing side it isn't be hard to banish the [citation needed] tags and message boxes using CSS. I've played around with code for wiki sites I manage to add that sort of functionality (and other related options) as a toggle buttons on the sidebar. I don't know if putting it in the sidebar for everyone would be okay for enwiki, etc., but I'm sure someone could write a gadget to give logged in users the ability to hide the meta-data. -Robert Rohde ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Some suggestions about the edit page.
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Robert Rohde raro...@gmail.com wrote: If there is an autosave type of function, and it is enabled, then one could control for duplicate windows using that communication stream. I don't see how you could reliably detect whether the other window is still open at the time you raise the warning. It doesn't seem like it would be a very common problem, anyway -- most people don't edit so many pages at once that they wouldn't notice they're editing the same page twice. :) I actually like the idea of an autosave, but I could see how it might not be a high priority (and could eventually be something of resource hog if people are allowed to leave a lot of uncommitted drafts lying around). Resource hog in what sense, disk space? I don't think disk space is a big deal. You do know that we keep all the old revisions of articles, right? :P ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Some suggestions about the edit page.
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Aryeh Gregor simetrical+wikil...@gmail.com wrote: I actually like the idea of an autosave, but I could see how it might not be a high priority (and could eventually be something of resource hog if people are allowed to leave a lot of uncommitted drafts lying around). Resource hog in what sense, disk space? I don't think disk space is a big deal. You do know that we keep all the old revisions of articles, right? :P As I recall, someone did an analysis and reported that people click on edit more than twice as often as they actually save an edit. If half of all database text were abandoned drafts, that would be dumb. Would WMF come tumbling down if the database doubled in size? Probably not, but it would still be a dumb use of resources. Historically, there has also been opposition to anything that would allow people to store private content on Wikipedia. Of course both issues could be dealt with if we just said unsaved drafts expired after a month or something. -Robert Rohde ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Some suggestions about the edit page.
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Robert Rohde raro...@gmail.com wrote: As I recall, someone did an analysis and reported that people click on edit more than twice as often as they actually save an edit. If half of all database text were abandoned drafts, that would be dumb. Would WMF come tumbling down if the database doubled in size? Probably not, but it would still be a dumb use of resources. Hmm, you might be right, if the drafts are saved too aggressively. Expiring them after a while would make sense. Also note, though, that we can save drafts locally in recent browsers (localStorage is even supported in IE8) and avoid pushing them to the server often -- I don't know if Drafts does this or not. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Some suggestions about the edit page.
Robert Rohde wrote: As I recall, someone did an analysis and reported that people click on edit more than twice as often as they actually save an edit. It might be useful to save every preview at the server as a personal draft, a new version of the the page [[Special:Draft]], visible only to that user and that only remembers the 100 last versions of whatever that user previewed (or diffed) during edit. The performance issue would be small, since the server already has to handle traffic in and out for each preview. This would be a low-tech approach to auto-saving, one that involves the user more and doesn't use any magic background Javascript. -- Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
