Re: [Wikitech-l] [Foundation-l] Proposed revised attribution language
Hmm. There is an issue which has been raised before by Duncan Harris on the en list: >>"The way I see it the Document referred to in the GFDL cannot be an >>individual Wikipedia article. It has to be the whole of Wikipedia. If the >>Document were an individual article then Wikipedia would be in breach of its >>own license. Every time people copy text between articles then they would >>create a Modified Version under the GFDL. They mostly do not comply with GFDL >>section 4 under these circumstances on a number of points. So the only >>sensible interpretations are the whole of English Wikipedia or the whole of >>Wikipedia as the GFDL Document. This has the following implications for GFDL >>compliance: - only need to give network location of Wikipedia, not individual >>articles - only need to give five principal authors of Wikipedia, not of >>individual articles - no real section Entitled "History", so no requirement >>to copy that" I think this is right: article history in practice fails the license terms. I had a look at a couple of articles which was itself a labour of love. In particular you find immediately drafting is not generally done in an article, except first time around for new stubs. For existing articles being reworked, a lot of content is generated/worked out/negotiated on various different talk pages, often not the main article talk page, before moving onto the actual article page using copy and paste. There is also a fair amount of copy and paste when sections are spun out to their own article or articles merged into a main article. In none of these cases does the article history correctly attribute authorship. Main author is even worse as content gets deleted by vandalism and restored so often finding original main contributors is practically impossible. I think Wikipedia is so far from compliant in the interpretation of the license if we take "one article as a document" that we have to accept that the whole thing is the document in license terms and no history is available. BozMo = On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 9:22 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote: > 2009/3/14 Magnus Manske : >> IIRC one reason to use wiki/ and w/ instead of "direct" URLs >> (en.wikipedia.org/Xenu) was to allow for non-article data at a later >> time (the other reason was to set noindex/nofollow rules). Looks like >> we will use that space after all :-) > > That may be one reason, but I think the main reason is to avoid > problems with articles called things like "index.php". /wiki/ is a > dummy directory, there's nothing actually there to conflict with, the > root directory has real files in it that need to accessible. > > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Foundation-l] Proposed revised attribution language
2009/3/14 Magnus Manske : > IIRC one reason to use wiki/ and w/ instead of "direct" URLs > (en.wikipedia.org/Xenu) was to allow for non-article data at a later > time (the other reason was to set noindex/nofollow rules). Looks like > we will use that space after all :-) That may be one reason, but I think the main reason is to avoid problems with articles called things like "index.php". /wiki/ is a dummy directory, there's nothing actually there to conflict with, the root directory has real files in it that need to accessible. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Foundation-l] Proposed revised attribution language
2009/3/14 Magnus Manske : > On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 3:25 PM, David Gerard wrote: >> 2009/3/14 MinuteElectron : >>> 2009/3/14 David Gerard : Here's an idea: nice URLs for the history. So we don't end up with stupid things peppered with ? and & and = printed on mugs, travel guides, etc. e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/history/Xenu for the history of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu . >>> This is already possible in MediaWiki, using a feature called "action >> Oh, I know it's not hard (though mod_rewrite rules resemble alchemy >> more than anything deterministic or logical). So I suppose the >> question is: can we get this into the Wikimedia settings? > IIRC one reason to use wiki/ and w/ instead of "direct" URLs > (en.wikipedia.org/Xenu) was to allow for non-article data at a later > time (the other reason was to set noindex/nofollow rules). Looks like > we will use that space after all :-) Kewl! Submitted as https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17981 - comments welcome. Any devs like it/dislike it? A Simple Matter of mod_rewrite rules? It'd be nice if it went into the base MediaWiki whenever short URLs are enabled, but as long as the /history/ link works that's fine for these purposes: to have reasonably obvious URLs that won't die in speech. > What might /really/ be cool would be > http://en.wikipedia.org/authors/Xenu > or even > http://en.wikipedia.org/main_authors/Xenu > filtering out minor contribs and IPs... We can save that for another bug if this one is accepted ;-) - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Foundation-l] Proposed revised attribution language
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 3:25 PM, David Gerard wrote: > 2009/3/14 MinuteElectron : >> 2009/3/14 David Gerard : > >>> Here's an idea: nice URLs for the history. So we don't end up with >>> stupid things peppered with ? and & and = printed on mugs, travel >>> guides, etc. >>> e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/history/Xenu for the history of >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu . > >> This is already possible in MediaWiki, using a feature called "action >> paths". It simply needs Apache rewrites setting up and a configuration >> variable within MediaWiki altering, there may be other implications in >> terms of internal organisation, robot functionality and caching >> though. > > > Oh, I know it's not hard (though mod_rewrite rules resemble alchemy > more than anything deterministic or logical). So I suppose the > question is: can we get this into the Wikimedia settings? IIRC one reason to use wiki/ and w/ instead of "direct" URLs (en.wikipedia.org/Xenu) was to allow for non-article data at a later time (the other reason was to set noindex/nofollow rules). Looks like we will use that space after all :-) What might /really/ be cool would be http://en.wikipedia.org/authors/Xenu or even http://en.wikipedia.org/main_authors/Xenu filtering out minor contribs and IPs... Magnus ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Foundation-l] Proposed revised attribution language
2009/3/14 MinuteElectron : > 2009/3/14 David Gerard : >> Here's an idea: nice URLs for the history. So we don't end up with >> stupid things peppered with ? and & and = printed on mugs, travel >> guides, etc. >> e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/history/Xenu for the history of >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu . > This is already possible in MediaWiki, using a feature called "action > paths". It simply needs Apache rewrites setting up and a configuration > variable within MediaWiki altering, there may be other implications in > terms of internal organisation, robot functionality and caching > though. Oh, I know it's not hard (though mod_rewrite rules resemble alchemy more than anything deterministic or logical). So I suppose the question is: can we get this into the Wikimedia settings? - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] [Foundation-l] Proposed revised attribution language
2009/3/14 Jussi-Ville Heiskanen : > The only thing *on* wikimedia websites that does > satisfy that currently is the history of articles; a direct > link into the history is sadly the only option available. I > think it is way cool that people are thinking of innovative > ways of formatting that information (in ways that would > for instance cut out the often inflammatory edit summaries), > but that is for the future. Here's an idea: nice URLs for the history. So we don't end up with stupid things peppered with ? and & and = printed on mugs, travel guides, etc. e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/history/Xenu for the history of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu . Something to point at for CC-by-sa attribution is an actual reason to put this into MediaWiki. cc to wikitech-l - is this something suitable for Wikimedia use? Shall I file an enhancement bug? See also: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1450 . - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
