Re: Next big app(s) to try?

[Kuba Ober]

On Sunday 17 February 2008, denis bonnenfant wrote:
> Another major application that may be interesting to support is SolidWorks.
> http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=8983
>
> Why ?
>
> - It's one of the most popular CAD application for mechanical design and
> engineering, and surely the most used for educationnal purposes. Although
> the industrial version is quite expensive, thousands of $ or €, it is
> availiable for free for students in europe, and currently, it is the only
> app that may prevent them from switching from Windows to Linux.

In similar vein I'd add Alibre Design, which provides almost the same 
functionality for 5-10x less money.

Cheers, Kuba

Re: Next big app(s) to try?

[Louis Lenders]

>   By the way, AutoCAD and 3ds max are very popular applications. It's 
> easy to
check how they are popular by using Google. For example, for AutoCAD alone 
> you will get 43,800,000 results [1]. So there is a really a lot of people who 
> depends on Autodesk products such as AutoCAD.
> 
So I think it's about time to get .Net 2.0 support into wine. Actually all the
info is there in bugzilla to get a lot of .net applications running . I know
.net support is not a target of wine-1.0.0, but why not reconsider? I got 3dmax
9 somehow running, but it seems to suffer from opengl bug; AutoCad 2008 only
made it into the main screeen,then threw up a messagebox about a fatal error. So
if someone could pick this up , and fix the remaining .net issues, i think wine
could get another boost...

Re: Next big app(s) to try?

[Dan Kegel]

On Feb 17, 2008 5:36 PM, Remco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'd say, of the work-related apps, definitely MS Office 2007
> (especially Outlook) and Internet Explorer 6 and 7.

My assumption has been that Codeweavers is busily
working on MS Office etc. aready.

> Of the fun-related apps, a few press-generating apps
> would be Crysis DX10-mode and iTunes (iPod sync).

Yeah, getting iTunes working properly seems like a must.
- Dan

Re: Next big app(s) to try?

[Remco]

I'd say, of the work-related apps, definitely MS Office 2007 (especially 
Outlook) and Internet Explorer 6 and 7. IE7 needs a lot of work still. IE6 
doesn't break on any Wine bugs AFAIK, but needs a special environment to 
install correctly. A little Wine magic might help here. IE is one of the few 
native Windows parts that cannot reasonably be replaced. Web developers need to 
test their sites in the real thing.

Of the fun-related apps, a few press-generating apps would be Crysis DX10-mode 
and iTunes (iPod sync).

Remco



  

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Re: Next big app(s) to try?

[denis bonnenfant]

Another major application that may be interesting to support is SolidWorks.
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=8983

Why ?

- It's one of the most popular CAD application for mechanical design and 
engineering, and surely the most used for educationnal purposes. Although the 
industrial version is quite expensive, thousands of $ or €, it is availiable 
for 
free for students in europe, and currently, it is the only app that may prevent 
them from switching from Windows to Linux.

- The Vista version is a pure disaster (or is vista the disaster ?), on a 
high-end notebook, it runs much slower than on a 4-years old low-end one with 
Win2K ! I saw many users really disappointed having to switch their brand new 
notebook back to XP, So there is a real "market" for linux/wine here !

- No MacOs version or alternatives.

- No opensource alternatives, and no linux native equivalents too ( Pro/E used 
to have a linux version, but i have no news about it )



Technically, most of the work seems to be done, i'm regularly testing it 
against 
  new wine versions, and it mostly works, except 3 blocking bugs that prevent 
any real use. Unfortunately, it looks like there are no other apps impacted, as 
  I saw no evolution for long months.  :

+ installation just works out of the box, no tricks needed, so testing is 
really 
simple, as the downloadable version can be run without registration during one 
month.

+ The modeler, the parasolid kernel, works perfectly. Very big assemblies can 
be 
opened and modified, and all the functions works, except one.

- The most important function, extrude, is crashing, but it is related to the 
UI 
only, I guess. unfortunately, I wasn't able to find the problem. 
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9545

- OpenGL child windows bug http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2398, or its 
cousin is still here, it was mostly solved by this patch 
http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-devel/attachments/20070821/b0f56ecf/wine_glwin4-0001.bin
, but actual wine version is in regression.

- Can't save files, looks like some things are missing in storage implementation
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9396

- Big issues with flicker-free screen redraw, causing visual artifacts and huge 
bitmaps to be allocated ( surely sync issues, causing0 messages to be passed in 
bad order, with unallocated values)   
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9561

Re: Next big app(s) to try?

[Dan Kegel]

Edward Savage wrote:
> CS3 photoshop, illustrator, flash, and aftereffects so I can drag my
> girlfriend to linux.

OK, just for you I created
http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeAfterEffects
with download links, etc.

There's one common bug stopping all CS3 installs, I think,
but in my experience bugs in the earlier versions also
show up in later versions, and the earlier versions have
easier to work on.

So if you want us to work on After Effects, please start testing
all the trial versions before CS3 and filing bugs.  That will
get the app ready for when we fix that common CS3 bug.
- Dan

Re: Next big app(s) to try?

[Nemes Ioan Sorin]

Can I add here Corel Draw suite ?
I've managed to start and work with Corel Draw 12 (with Wine Doors I add 
VB common controls) but after wine 0.9.45 Corel stop working.

Also Corel Draw is widely used in DTP industry.

Finally imagine AVID* working better and faster under WINE, ..stop   I 
walk in a dream now, sorry for that ;)

Edward Savage wrote:
> CS3 photoshop, illustrator, flash, and aftereffects so I can drag my 
> girlfriend to linux. 
> 
> Thanks :D
> 
> (Sorry for the dupe Jaap, hit the wrong reply button.)
> 
> On Feb 17, 2008 10:07 PM, Jaap Stolk <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
> 
> On Feb 17, 2008 11:57 AM, Pau Garcia i Quiles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
>  >
>  > AutoCAD, please
>  >
> 
> I spend a lot of time trying to get autocad (2004) to run on Wine.
> There where some small problems like registry things and with Internet
> Explorer dependencies, but those where easy to solve. The big problem
> is that the copy protection (and the anti-debugging tricks in it) run
> as a couple of windows drivers and do things that are far from
> "normal" in Windows. It is also very picky about almost everything,
> and does not generate any timely or useful error messages. (it just
> exits at the very end, without any clue about what went wrong.)
> Without the copy protection I'm sure autocad would run just fine with
> Wine. Newer autocad versions use .NET as well, which could be more
> complicated. (And no, "p2p" versions still have all the copy
> protection and anti-debugging tricks. )
> 
> Personally (as a programmer), I think my time would be better spend on
> many of the open-source CAD programs.
> (Or ask rhino3d very nicely if they want to make a Linux version.
> please. :-)
> 
> jaap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Next big app(s) to try?

[Dan Kegel]

On Feb 17, 2008 4:02 AM, L. Rahyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What about support for Autodesk products (such as AutoCAD and 3ds 
> max)? As
> far as I know there is two group of problems preventing them from working:
> copy-protection related and .NET related. ...
> However for not-so-new versions there is no .NET issues (just 
> copy-protection
> problems)
> This is true for AutoCAD too (as far as I know AutoCAD and 3ds max 
> are using
> same protection called C-Dilla).

Yeah, getting .net working would be great, and we seem to be making
some progress there.  And getting the copy protection used by these apps
would be great.  Googling around, I see that C-Dilla has sometimes been
called Safecast, which is related to Safedisc, so I took the liberty of updating
http://wiki.winehq.org/SafeDisc with a link to the Autocad 2000 bug,
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8466.  That one looks like
it's waiting for some action - James pointed out a simple-looking problem,
but nobody's tackled it yet.

I'm torn between tackling hard problems and just going for the
low-hanging fruit.
I think the upshot is: I'm going to push hard on the low-hanging fruit,
and let the hard problems sort themselves out in their own time,
since pushing on them usually tends to involve a lot of wheel spinning.
- Dan

Re: Next big app(s) to try?

[Edward Savage]

CS3 photoshop, illustrator, flash, and aftereffects so I can drag my
girlfriend to linux.

Thanks :D

(Sorry for the dupe Jaap, hit the wrong reply button.)

On Feb 17, 2008 10:07 PM, Jaap Stolk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Feb 17, 2008 11:57 AM, Pau Garcia i Quiles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > AutoCAD, please
> >
>
> I spend a lot of time trying to get autocad (2004) to run on Wine.
> There where some small problems like registry things and with Internet
> Explorer dependencies, but those where easy to solve. The big problem
> is that the copy protection (and the anti-debugging tricks in it) run
> as a couple of windows drivers and do things that are far from
> "normal" in Windows. It is also very picky about almost everything,
> and does not generate any timely or useful error messages. (it just
> exits at the very end, without any clue about what went wrong.)
> Without the copy protection I'm sure autocad would run just fine with
> Wine. Newer autocad versions use .NET as well, which could be more
> complicated. (And no, "p2p" versions still have all the copy
> protection and anti-debugging tricks. )
>
> Personally (as a programmer), I think my time would be better spend on
> many of the open-source CAD programs.
> (Or ask rhino3d very nicely if they want to make a Linux version. please.
> :-)
>
> jaap.
>
>
>

Re: Next big app(s) to try?

[Jaap Stolk]

On Feb 17, 2008 11:57 AM, Pau Garcia i Quiles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> AutoCAD, please
>

I spend a lot of time trying to get autocad (2004) to run on Wine.
There where some small problems like registry things and with Internet
Explorer dependencies, but those where easy to solve. The big problem
is that the copy protection (and the anti-debugging tricks in it) run
as a couple of windows drivers and do things that are far from
"normal" in Windows. It is also very picky about almost everything,
and does not generate any timely or useful error messages. (it just
exits at the very end, without any clue about what went wrong.)
Without the copy protection I'm sure autocad would run just fine with
Wine. Newer autocad versions use .NET as well, which could be more
complicated. (And no, "p2p" versions still have all the copy
protection and anti-debugging tricks. )

Personally (as a programmer), I think my time would be better spend on
many of the open-source CAD programs.
(Or ask rhino3d very nicely if they want to make a Linux version. please. :-)

jaap.

Re: Next big app(s) to try?

[L. Rahyen]

On Sunday February 17 2008 09:15:24 Dan Kegel wrote:
> Now that Adobe Photoshop CS2 is running kind of
> well (there are bugs that need fixing, but I'm trying
> to look ahead a bit), what big app(s) are worth focusing on next?
>
> Using http://wiki.winehq.org/LinuxApplicatonRequestSurvey,
> skipping Photoshop (which we should continue to fix up)
> and the ones that are either too hard, have native versions,
> or are probably something Codeweavers might already be
> doing, and adding in good old Framemaker (so close to working
> we might want to go for it just for the goodwill from all
> those tech writers),  I think that leaves about seven big
> ticket apps, in rough order of popularity:
>
> http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeDreamweaver
> iTunes
> http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeIllustrator
> http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeFlash
> http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobePremiere
> http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeAcrobatPro
> http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeFramemaker
>
> I've created wiki pages with trial download URLs for all but iTunes,
> and done a bunch of triage on them.
> Most of these could all use more triage and bugs filed.
> At some point the dust might settle, and it might become
> clearer which one(s) deserve to be focused on.
> I think Maarten is going to try iTunes, which would be great.
> - Dan

What about support for Autodesk products (such as AutoCAD and 3ds max)? 
As 
far as I know there is two group of problems preventing them from working: 
copy-protection related and .NET related. This is true for most recent 
versions.
However for not-so-new versions there is no .NET issues (just 
copy-protection 
problems). For example this is true for 3ds max 4, 5, 6, 7 (but I didn't check 
this personally). I heard that it is possible to get 3ds max 3 working on 
WINE but it's so old that this is useless today but it gives hope that newer 
versions of 3ds max will work if proper support for copy-protection used by 
Autodesk will be implemented.
This is true for AutoCAD too (as far as I know AutoCAD and 3ds max are 
using 
same protection called C-Dilla).
Unfortunately, I'm not an expert on this topic so I don't know how 
difficult 
to implement proper support for C-Dilla. But if it's implemented, it is very 
likely that both AutoCAD and 3ds max will work (as I said, because of .NET 
issues, most recent versions may not work but at least not so new versions 
will work; in future, when .NET support will be better, new versions will 
probably work too).
In other words, proper support for C-Dilla is most important thing for 
AutoCAD and 3ds max support so it is possible to temporary ignore .NET bugs 
related to most recent Autodesk products for now.
By the way, AutoCAD and 3ds max are very popular applications. It's 
easy to 
check how they are popular by using Google. For example, for AutoCAD alone 
you will get 43,800,000 results [1]. So there is a really a lot of people who 
depends on Autodesk products such as AutoCAD.

[1] http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=AutoCAD&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f

*   *   *

(Everything below is just my personal experience as a person who 
depends on 
Autodesk products so you can skip it if you don't like such stories).
Because of above problems many people (who depends on these 
applications) 
just forced to use Windows. In fact, I wasn't able to "convert" to Linux some 
of my friends because of AutoCAD being unsupported in Linux.
For now, I'm stuck with VMWare. But it doesn't support DirectX or 
OpenGL so 
working with many projects is a pain (therefore it's difficult to call use of 
VMWare "Linux support for Autodesk products", even worse, use of VMWare not 
only means use of Windows but it also means BAD performance in even not very 
big projects) but I currently havn't other choices. I depend heavily on Linux 
applications/environment/daemons so dual-boot isn't an option for me - 
virtual machine in Linux host is the only choice. I really tired from bad 
performance and bad integration of the VMWare, I really hope that WINE will 
support Autodesk products someday...
However, I use WINE for many other application such as Photoshop CS, 
AVR 
Studio, XnView and many others, so I'm really happy that WINE exists and I'm 
really thankful to all WINE developers.
AutoCAD and 3ds max are two last programs that force me to use virtual 
machine with Windows...

Re: Next big app(s) to try?

[Pau Garcia i Quiles]

Quoting Dan Kegel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Now that Adobe Photoshop CS2 is running kind of
> well (there are bugs that need fixing, but I'm trying
> to look ahead a bit), what big app(s) are worth focusing on next?
>
> Using http://wiki.winehq.org/LinuxApplicatonRequestSurvey,
> skipping Photoshop (which we should continue to fix up)
> and the ones that are either too hard, have native versions,
> or are probably something Codeweavers might already be
> doing, and adding in good old Framemaker (so close to working
> we might want to go for it just for the goodwill from all
> those tech writers),  I think that leaves about seven big
> ticket apps, in rough order of popularity:
>
> http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeDreamweaver
> iTunes
> http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeIllustrator
> http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeFlash
> http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobePremiere
> http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeAcrobatPro
> http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeFramemaker
>
> I've created wiki pages with trial download URLs for all but iTunes,
> and done a bunch of triage on them.
> Most of these could all use more triage and bugs filed.
> At some point the dust might settle, and it might become
> clearer which one(s) deserve to be focused on.
> I think Maarten is going to try iTunes, which would be great.

AutoCAD, please


-- 
Pau Garcia i Quiles
http://www.elpauer.org
(Due to my workload, I may need 10 days to answer)

Next big app(s) to try?

[Dan Kegel]

Now that Adobe Photoshop CS2 is running kind of
well (there are bugs that need fixing, but I'm trying
to look ahead a bit), what big app(s) are worth focusing on next?

Using http://wiki.winehq.org/LinuxApplicatonRequestSurvey,
skipping Photoshop (which we should continue to fix up)
and the ones that are either too hard, have native versions,
or are probably something Codeweavers might already be
doing, and adding in good old Framemaker (so close to working
we might want to go for it just for the goodwill from all
those tech writers),  I think that leaves about seven big
ticket apps, in rough order of popularity:

http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeDreamweaver
iTunes
http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeIllustrator
http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeFlash
http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobePremiere
http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeAcrobatPro
http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobeFramemaker

I've created wiki pages with trial download URLs for all but iTunes,
and done a bunch of triage on them.
Most of these could all use more triage and bugs filed.
At some point the dust might settle, and it might become
clearer which one(s) deserve to be focused on.
I think Maarten is going to try iTunes, which would be great.
- Dan