Re: Ubuntu no longer works correctly without pulseaudio
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:33 AM, IneedAname wrote: > On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:26:38 -0500 > Austin English wrote: > >> Apparently it keeps getting reinstalled. I encountered it yesterday >> when installing kernel updates and a few other things. I didn't bother >> to check what package is depending on it, only noticed it once my test >> results on http://test.winehq.org showed multiple failures in sound >> stuff. > > which version of Ubuntu are you using? I'm using Jaunty 64-bit. > I never uninstalled it, It try's rip half your system out with Ubuntu 8.04 > (LTS), so I just unticked from 'sessions'. Then I set up ALSA. > > P.S I may of removed some pulseaudio packages. Removing the pulse packages and adding my user to the audio group seems to work fine*, with plain ALSA goodness. *By work fine, I mean I can rock out to Pandora while playing Morrowind, and winetest is again passing for me. -- -Austin
Re: Ubuntu no longer works correctly without pulseaudio
On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:26:38 -0500 Austin English wrote: > Apparently it keeps getting reinstalled. I encountered it yesterday > when installing kernel updates and a few other things. I didn't bother > to check what package is depending on it, only noticed it once my test > results on http://test.winehq.org showed multiple failures in sound > stuff. which version of Ubuntu are you using? I never uninstalled it, It try's rip half your system out with Ubuntu 8.04 (LTS), so I just unticked from 'sessions'. Then I set up ALSA. P.S I may of removed some pulseaudio packages.
Re: Ubuntu no longer works correctly without pulseaudio
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Ben Klein wrote: > I'm still interested to know what the problem with purging pulseaudio > is, as that is the current preferred solution that is given to users > who have sound issues in #winehq. Apparently it keeps getting reinstalled. I encountered it yesterday when installing kernel updates and a few other things. I didn't bother to check what package is depending on it, only noticed it once my test results on http://test.winehq.org showed multiple failures in sound stuff. $ sudo apt-get remove --purge pulseaudio* worked for me. -- -Austin
Re: Ubuntu no longer works correctly without pulseaudio
2009/4/28 Susan Cragin :
>>wineoss is not a viable solution to the pulseaudio problem, but this
>>is a real nasty issue where the solution is "as long as it works for
>>you, it's fine".
>>
>>What exactly is the issue with purging pulseaudio? Though this should
>>be taken up with ubuntu's bugs tracker. pulseaudio should be
>>considered optional, since ALSA/dmix works wherever pulseaudio with
>>ALSA backend works, even if it is opt-out.
>
> Ben, sorry...
> You probably haven't been following this thread closely. I determined a
> couple of days ago that pulseaudio was not actually my problem even though I
> thought it was. I just kept the name of the thread.
If you're still using pulseaudio, and it works with setting winecfg to
OSS instead of ALSA, then it's the same old conflict between
pulseaudio and Wine, just that more than likely padsp or equivalent is
being used, and you're lucky enough to not have problems using it like
that.
> One of wine's developers asked me if linux's (or Ubuntu's) alsa-wrappers
> could have changed, and if wine's alsa-wrappers could therefore need updating.
> The fact that something works under winecfg OSS (but not under winecfg ALSA)
> is a valuable piece of diagnostic information.
Yes, but aren't we talking about pulseaudio here? Wine doesn't support
pulseaudio, so pulseaudio has to support Wine for things to work. With
most applications, pulseaudio's ALSA plugin (plug pulse) is suitable.
In the case of Wine and a few other apps, plug pulse is drastically
insufficient. Some people, like yourself, have reported success with
changing winecfg to use OSS, so this then uses pulseaudio's OSS
wrapper (padsp).
The real way to fix this is one of two things:
1) pulseaudio should not use direct hardware access and instead access
the soundcard via hardware mixing wherever possible, or failing that
the ALSA dmix plugin, or
2) a (nearly?) fully-functional libpulse driver should be committed to Wine.
#1 is unlikely to happen because pulseaudio IS a mixer. #2 so far has
never been submitted as a implemented solution. There is a winepulse
driver floating around, but in reality it's just a hacked-up ALSA
driver and it doesn't use libpulse.
> My value to this group is usually as a canary in the mine. Because I have the
> latest kernel, and the latest updates, I am able to spot problems before they
> hit the mainstream.
> And remember, this is a developers' group, not a users group. Experimentation
> is grist for the mill.
Your efforts are consistently and constantly appreciated. Your name
was even mentioned in a thread about making users "happy" with Wine
("Article on wine development strategy").
None of this changes the fact that ALSA+dmix works wherever pulseaudio
with an ALSA back-end works. If this was a problem for me (i.e., if I
used Ubuntu), I would open or comment on a bug, the jist of which
would be "Ubuntu is crippled when pulseaudio is removed". pulseaudio
*should* be optional, even if it's opt-out.
I'm still interested to know what the problem with purging pulseaudio
is, as that is the current preferred solution that is given to users
who have sound issues in #winehq.
Re: Ubuntu no longer works correctly without pulseaudio
>wineoss is not a viable solution to the pulseaudio problem, but this >is a real nasty issue where the solution is "as long as it works for >you, it's fine". > >What exactly is the issue with purging pulseaudio? Though this should >be taken up with ubuntu's bugs tracker. pulseaudio should be >considered optional, since ALSA/dmix works wherever pulseaudio with >ALSA backend works, even if it is opt-out. Ben, sorry... You probably haven't been following this thread closely. I determined a couple of days ago that pulseaudio was not actually my problem even though I thought it was. I just kept the name of the thread. One of wine's developers asked me if linux's (or Ubuntu's) alsa-wrappers could have changed, and if wine's alsa-wrappers could therefore need updating. The fact that something works under winecfg OSS (but not under winecfg ALSA) is a valuable piece of diagnostic information. My value to this group is usually as a canary in the mine. Because I have the latest kernel, and the latest updates, I am able to spot problems before they hit the mainstream. And remember, this is a developers' group, not a users group. Experimentation is grist for the mill. Susan
Re: Ubuntu no longer works correctly without pulseaudio
2009/4/28 Susan Cragin : > http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18133. > >>The alsadriver settings that freeze during training are as follows (and they >>are the ones that used to work): >> >>wave-out devices: dmix:Generic (there were three of these) >>wave-in devices: dsnoop:Generic (ditto) >> >>My working mixer device was HD-Audio-Generic. >>(I had three cards, the other mixers were HDA Intel and iMic USB audio system) >> >>Now, to get the program to work at all without freezing, I re-install the >>kernel. Then only the USB works properly. The settings I see are as follows. >> >>wave-out devices: ALC660-VD Analog >> USB Audio >> >>wave-in devices: (same) > > > Good news. > By changing in winecfg alsa to oss, I was able to get USB and my on-board > cards (including Creative X-fi) to work, and to work VERY well. > No freezing during training. Smooth recognition. And very fast. > (My new souped-up real-time kernel may have something to do with that.) > I cannot control the volume by the program (I have to use alsamixer). > > OSS Driver > wave out devices / wave in devices / mixer devices all show these three: > Realtek ALC660-VD > USB Mixer > Creative CA0110-IBG > wineoss is not a viable solution to the pulseaudio problem, but this is a real nasty issue where the solution is "as long as it works for you, it's fine". What exactly is the issue with purging pulseaudio? Though this should be taken up with ubuntu's bugs tracker. pulseaudio should be considered optional, since ALSA/dmix works wherever pulseaudio with ALSA backend works, even if it is opt-out.
Re: Ubuntu no longer works correctly without pulseaudio
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18133. >The alsadriver settings that freeze during training are as follows (and they >are the ones that used to work): > >wave-out devices: dmix:Generic (there were three of these) >wave-in devices: dsnoop:Generic (ditto) > >My working mixer device was HD-Audio-Generic. >(I had three cards, the other mixers were HDA Intel and iMic USB audio system) > >Now, to get the program to work at all without freezing, I re-install the >kernel. Then only the USB works properly. The settings I see are as follows. > >wave-out devices: ALC660-VD Analog > USB Audio > >wave-in devices: (same) Good news. By changing in winecfg alsa to oss, I was able to get USB and my on-board cards (including Creative X-fi) to work, and to work VERY well. No freezing during training. Smooth recognition. And very fast. (My new souped-up real-time kernel may have something to do with that.) I cannot control the volume by the program (I have to use alsamixer). OSS Driver wave out devices / wave in devices / mixer devices all show these three: Realtek ALC660-VD USB Mixer Creative CA0110-IBG
Re: Ubuntu no longer works correctly without pulseaudio
> Bug 1813 is a really old bug for something else (fixed in 2003). Did you >> forget a digit? > That would be http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18133. > >- Reece Hi. Yes, that's the bug. Here's everything I know, and probably more than you want to know, but I don't know what to leave out. My system is on the bleeding edge of everything, which can be a problem when it comes time to diagnose. I have been using Ubuntu Jaunty Studio since its first beta, and it's now fairly mature. I compile every wine git and test it, using Dragon NaturallySpeaking. Usually everything works as well or better than it has. In addition to that, I compile my own alsa-driver because I use a Creative SoundBlaster X-fi soundcard. They are a one-time install and I used the stable daily build. They had been working well for weeks, and I had not updated them in at least a day or two. About 10 days ago, when I did my daily wine build and installed DNS, the training froze. My first thought was a wine regression, but I was busy and didn't test for a few days. Then I did a couple of regression tests that seemed to succeed, but really the just marked the first change I tagged as the problem. I tested back further than the problem appeared. Still no luck. Solution? That it's not wine's problem, it is something else that has been introduced. Then I tried using a new alsa-driver, and a new alsa-libs with it. Nothing. Then I tested various configurations of pulseaudio, purged and not-purged. No changes. Then I reinstalled the whole Ubuntu-Studio system. In the meantime, Ubuntu-Studio had switched to using the Real-Time kernel as a default. The kernel froze before wine had a chance to. Back to the drawing board. I downloaded the generic kernel. That seemed to work for USB audio only. I tried compiling alsa-drivers, and installing them, and then USB stopped receiving sound. Then someone on my ubuntu-studio users list compiled a generic (non-ubuntu) realtime kernel. I installed it in the crudest way possible, by double-clicking on the DEB. Success, but for the USB soundcard only. The alsadriver settings that freeze during training are as follows (and they are the ones that used to work): wave-out devices: dmix:Generic (there were three of these) wave-in devices: dsnoop:Generic (ditto) My working mixer device was HD-Audio-Generic. (I had three cards, the other mixers were HDA Intel and iMic USB audio system) Now, to get the program to work at all without freezing, I re-install the kernel. Then only the USB works properly. The settings I see are as follows. wave-out devices: ALC660-VD Analog USB Audio wave-in devices: (same) So, what do you make of all this? Are dmix and dsnoop being bypassed? Susan
Re: Ubuntu no longer works correctly without pulseaudio
2009/4/27 Justin : > Is this with the new version that just came out, Jaunty Jackalope? > Just wondering, did you have problems with the default setup (pulseaudio > enabled, using alsa in wine)? > > Bug 1813 is a really old bug for something else (fixed in 2003). Did you > forget a digit? That would be http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18133. - Reece
Re: Ubuntu no longer works correctly without pulseaudio
Is this with the new version that just came out, Jaunty Jackalope? Just wondering, did you have problems with the default setup (pulseaudio enabled, using alsa in wine)? Bug 1813 is a really old bug for something else (fixed in 2003). Did you forget a digit? On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 6:39 AM, Susan Cragin wrote: > I just thought I would alert the list. > I had a problem with sound oddities a few days ago, and filed bug 1813. > The possible culprits were wine's daily build, my experimental alsa-driver, > and standard Ubuntu updates. > > The Ubuntu updates won. > Ubuntu no longer works correctly with pulseaudio purged. I have to use wine > with pasuspender. > > Susan > > > > >
