Re: Wine in Tango

[King InuYasha]

By default, it references icons in resource DLLs, but it can be configured
for regular ICO files.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Francois Gouget  wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, King InuYasha wrote:
> [...]
> > Normally under Windows, it is possible to totally replace the icons for
> > almost everything through the File types and associations dialog. You can
> > even change the icon of a file folder. I don't think most people are
> aware
> > that Windows can have all of its icons dynamically remapped by design.
>
> If Wine can do the remapping through the registry then that's workable.
> If the registry just references icons in resource dlls, then that means
> Wine would need to generate resource dlls at run time and that's not so
> good.
>
> --
> Francois Gouget   http://fgouget.free.fr/
>RFC 2549: ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2549.txt
>IP over Avian Carriers with Quality of Service
>

Re: Wine in Tango

[Francois Gouget]

On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, King InuYasha wrote:
[...]
> Normally under Windows, it is possible to totally replace the icons for
> almost everything through the File types and associations dialog. You can
> even change the icon of a file folder. I don't think most people are aware
> that Windows can have all of its icons dynamically remapped by design.

If Wine can do the remapping through the registry then that's workable. 
If the registry just references icons in resource dlls, then that means 
Wine would need to generate resource dlls at run time and that's not so 
good.

-- 
Francois Gouget   http://fgouget.free.fr/
   RFC 2549: ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2549.txt
IP over Avian Carriers with Quality of Service

Re: Wine in Tango

[Ben Klein]

2009/9/21 Ralf Jung :
> I hope this does not sound offending, but why is Tango more of a standard 
> than, e.g., Oxygen? I'm really just curious, please don't think I want to 
> start a flame-war here. And, of course, I'd like to see wine integrated 
> regardless of the desktop environment in use :D

For me, Oxygen is stupidly big compared to Tango :D

Re: Wine in Tango

[Scott Ritchie]

Ralf Jung wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>> It's true, not everyone is using Tango, but it's the closest thing we
>> have to a standard.  It certainly wouldn't hurt to make Wine compatible
>> with multiple icon sets and then let packagers choose which one to use,
>> so I could provide a Gnome-wine and a KDE-wine and so on.
>>
>> Starting with Tango seems like the best first bet though.
> I hope this does not sound offending, but why is Tango more of a standard 
> than, e.g., Oxygen? I'm really just curious, please don't think I want to 
> start a flame-war here. And, of course, I'd like to see wine integrated 
> regardless of the desktop environment in use :D
> 
> Several icon packets sound great. I wonder if it is possible for wine to 
> automatically use the icon set of the environment? Of course some icons don't 
> exist in the Linux world, but for example message boxes or icons for files 
> and folders are available this way. Then one would not need to make a KDE- 
> and a Gnome-wine.
> 

Tango has some nice style guidelines for making individual icons on
their website, for one, and not just a color palette.

Thanks,
Scott Ritchie

Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Wine in Tango

[King InuYasha]

As far as I know, shellstyles do not contain icons, but rather resource data
for theming, such as how the start menu will be displayed. For example, a XP
theme I used quite a few years ago removed the Start text from the start
menu and replaced the green button with the image of Sonic.
Icons have always been separate from the visual/shell styles, afaik.

To map icons the way you want, you would need to use the Registry.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Roderick Colenbrander <
thunderbir...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think I read somewhere that shellstyle.dll (that's the name) can
> contain icons (and I guess effects as well) but I'm not 100% sure. I
> would guess that we need to download some themes which have a
> shellstyle and see what's in it.
>
> Roderick
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 12:27 AM, Joel Holdsworth
>  wrote:
> > On Mon, 2009-09-21 at 16:02 +0200, Roderick Colenbrander wrote:
> >> As of XP themes can specify their own icons. For some dlls I believe
> >> shell32 they need to provide their own shellapi.dll or whatever it is
> >> called. I think that would be the way to proceed. I would suggest to
> >> make Tango the base theme as it integrates well with KDE/Gnome and
> >> also OSX. Using themes (some of the infrastructure for it is missing
> >> though) you would be able to override the Tango icons.
> >
> > Are you sure that includes the user32 icons? I know it works for shell
> > objects, but I didn't think it could apply to anything that didn't have
> > a PIDL!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Wine in Tango

[Roderick Colenbrander]

As shown on the screenshots here from windowblinds it is able to
override shell icons. I have no idea how it is doing that though.
http://frogboy.joeuser.com/article/150608

Roderick

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Roderick Colenbrander
 wrote:
> I think I read somewhere that shellstyle.dll (that's the name) can
> contain icons (and I guess effects as well) but I'm not 100% sure. I
> would guess that we need to download some themes which have a
> shellstyle and see what's in it.
>
> Roderick
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 12:27 AM, Joel Holdsworth
>  wrote:
>> On Mon, 2009-09-21 at 16:02 +0200, Roderick Colenbrander wrote:
>>> As of XP themes can specify their own icons. For some dlls I believe
>>> shell32 they need to provide their own shellapi.dll or whatever it is
>>> called. I think that would be the way to proceed. I would suggest to
>>> make Tango the base theme as it integrates well with KDE/Gnome and
>>> also OSX. Using themes (some of the infrastructure for it is missing
>>> though) you would be able to override the Tango icons.
>>
>> Are you sure that includes the user32 icons? I know it works for shell
>> objects, but I didn't think it could apply to anything that didn't have
>> a PIDL!
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Wine in Tango

[Roderick Colenbrander]

I think I read somewhere that shellstyle.dll (that's the name) can
contain icons (and I guess effects as well) but I'm not 100% sure. I
would guess that we need to download some themes which have a
shellstyle and see what's in it.

Roderick

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 12:27 AM, Joel Holdsworth
 wrote:
> On Mon, 2009-09-21 at 16:02 +0200, Roderick Colenbrander wrote:
>> As of XP themes can specify their own icons. For some dlls I believe
>> shell32 they need to provide their own shellapi.dll or whatever it is
>> called. I think that would be the way to proceed. I would suggest to
>> make Tango the base theme as it integrates well with KDE/Gnome and
>> also OSX. Using themes (some of the infrastructure for it is missing
>> though) you would be able to override the Tango icons.
>
> Are you sure that includes the user32 icons? I know it works for shell
> objects, but I didn't think it could apply to anything that didn't have
> a PIDL!
>
>
>

Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Wine in Tango

[Joel Holdsworth]

On Mon, 2009-09-21 at 16:02 +0200, Roderick Colenbrander wrote:
> As of XP themes can specify their own icons. For some dlls I believe
> shell32 they need to provide their own shellapi.dll or whatever it is
> called. I think that would be the way to proceed. I would suggest to
> make Tango the base theme as it integrates well with KDE/Gnome and
> also OSX. Using themes (some of the infrastructure for it is missing
> though) you would be able to override the Tango icons.

Are you sure that includes the user32 icons? I know it works for shell
objects, but I didn't think it could apply to anything that didn't have
a PIDL!

Re: Wine in Tango

[King InuYasha]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Roderick Colenbrander <
thunderbir...@gmail.com> wrote:

> As of XP themes can specify their own icons. For some dlls I believe
> shell32 they need to provide their own shellapi.dll or whatever it is
> called. I think that would be the way to proceed. I would suggest to
> make Tango the base theme as it integrates well with KDE/Gnome and
> also OSX. Using themes (some of the infrastructure for it is missing
> though) you would be able to override the Tango icons.
>
> Roderick
>

Normally under Windows, it is possible to totally replace the icons for
almost everything through the File types and associations dialog. You can
even change the icon of a file folder. I don't think most people are aware
that Windows can have all of its icons dynamically remapped by design.

Re: Wine in Tango

[Roderick Colenbrander]

As of XP themes can specify their own icons. For some dlls I believe
shell32 they need to provide their own shellapi.dll or whatever it is
called. I think that would be the way to proceed. I would suggest to
make Tango the base theme as it integrates well with KDE/Gnome and
also OSX. Using themes (some of the infrastructure for it is missing
though) you would be able to override the Tango icons.

Roderick

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Ralf Jung  wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> It's true, not everyone is using Tango, but it's the closest thing we
>> have to a standard.  It certainly wouldn't hurt to make Wine compatible
>> with multiple icon sets and then let packagers choose which one to use,
>> so I could provide a Gnome-wine and a KDE-wine and so on.
>>
>> Starting with Tango seems like the best first bet though.
> I hope this does not sound offending, but why is Tango more of a standard 
> than, e.g., Oxygen? I'm really just curious, please don't think I want to 
> start a flame-war here. And, of course, I'd like to see wine integrated 
> regardless of the desktop environment in use :D
>
> Several icon packets sound great. I wonder if it is possible for wine to 
> automatically use the icon set of the environment? Of course some icons don't 
> exist in the Linux world, but for example message boxes or icons for files 
> and folders are available this way. Then one would not need to make a KDE- 
> and a Gnome-wine.
>
> Kind regards,
> Ralf Jung
> --
> Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla Firefox 3 -
> sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/atbrowser
>
>
>

Re: Wine in Tango

[Francois Gouget]

On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, Ralf Jung wrote:
[...]
> If wine should integrate well with the surrounding Linux desktop, why 
> don't you use the desktop icon set where possible?

Because on Windows the icons are stored as resources in the dlls. So 
Windows applications and dlls use the same generic API for loading their 
private resources, as well as the Windows resources.

So to implement what you want, the LoadIcon() function in user32.dll 
would need to know about the icons stored in shell32.dll, crypt32.dll, 
etc, and what KDE, Gnome or XFce icon to replace them with. That would 
break the dll separation principle.

Maybe theming provides a way to replace these icons. If so, then that 
would be the way to go. Otherwise we may invent our own way of doing so, 
like storing special 'remapping' resources that would tell LoadIcon() to 
replace a given icon with one from outside the dll. That would still 
require quite a bit of work: we cannot return a PNG icon to the 
application, it would need to be converted to ico format, and (probably) 
with the various sizes and depths collated together, etc. We'd also have 
to hack the data returned by FindResource() & co to take these 
remappings into account. That could get ugly pretty quick.


-- 
Francois Gouget   http://fgouget.free.fr/
  Demander si un ordinateur peut penser revient à demander
 si un sous-marin peut nager.

Re: Wine in Tango

[Ralf Jung]

Hi,

> It's true, not everyone is using Tango, but it's the closest thing we
> have to a standard.  It certainly wouldn't hurt to make Wine compatible
> with multiple icon sets and then let packagers choose which one to use,
> so I could provide a Gnome-wine and a KDE-wine and so on.
> 
> Starting with Tango seems like the best first bet though.
I hope this does not sound offending, but why is Tango more of a standard than, 
e.g., Oxygen? I'm really just curious, please don't think I want to start a 
flame-war here. And, of course, I'd like to see wine integrated regardless of 
the desktop environment in use :D

Several icon packets sound great. I wonder if it is possible for wine to 
automatically use the icon set of the environment? Of course some icons don't 
exist in the Linux world, but for example message boxes or icons for files and 
folders are available this way. Then one would not need to make a KDE- and a 
Gnome-wine.

Kind regards,
Ralf Jung
-- 
Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla Firefox 3 -
sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/atbrowser

Re: Wine in Tango

[Scott Ritchie]

Ralf Jung wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
>> I don't know if we can say this.  Only when our Wine-supplied icons are
>> appearing near application-supplied icons do we gain some consistency by
>> mimicing Windows style, but that consistency is confined to that
>> particular app.  Most icons the user sees are instead going to be
>> compared with the rest of the desktop and its applications, and adopting
>> a Tango style rather than a Windows style is the only way to get that
>> overall consistency.
> 
>> If we're not careful, Wine apps may continue to stick out rather than be
>> just another part of the desktop.
> If wine should integrate well with the surrounding Linux desktop, why don't 
> you use the desktop icon set where possible? By using the Tango icons, wine 
> applications will still stick out on almost all non-Gnome system (most 
> notably KDE) as well as those Gnome desktops where the icon set was changed - 
> that's not what I would call integration. I agree that the Tango icons are 
> prettier than the one currently used, and as a result an improvement, but 
> unfortunately they won't fix the "sticking out".
> 
> Kind regards,
> Ralf Jung

It's true, not everyone is using Tango, but it's the closest thing we
have to a standard.  It certainly wouldn't hurt to make Wine compatible
with multiple icon sets and then let packagers choose which one to use,
so I could provide a Gnome-wine and a KDE-wine and so on.

Starting with Tango seems like the best first bet though.

Thanks,
Scott Ritchie

Re: Wine in Tango

[Ralf Jung]

Hi everyone,

> I don't know if we can say this.  Only when our Wine-supplied icons are
> appearing near application-supplied icons do we gain some consistency by
> mimicing Windows style, but that consistency is confined to that
> particular app.  Most icons the user sees are instead going to be
> compared with the rest of the desktop and its applications, and adopting
> a Tango style rather than a Windows style is the only way to get that
> overall consistency.

> If we're not careful, Wine apps may continue to stick out rather than be
> just another part of the desktop.
If wine should integrate well with the surrounding Linux desktop, why don't you 
use the desktop icon set where possible? By using the Tango icons, wine 
applications will still stick out on almost all non-Gnome system (most notably 
KDE) as well as those Gnome desktops where the icon set was changed - that's 
not what I would call integration. I agree that the Tango icons are prettier 
than the one currently used, and as a result an improvement, but unfortunately 
they won't fix the "sticking out".

Kind regards,
Ralf Jung
-- 
GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

Re: Wine in Tango

[Francois Gouget]

On Sat, 19 Sep 2009, Joel Holdsworth wrote:
[...]
> > shortcut.ico - the icon is oriented improperly. It needs to be
> > bottom-left and oriented so the arrow points towards the center.
> 
> This is the orientation from Gnome. If you object this can be changed
> easily. Do it the way Windows does it, right?

Presumably the shortcut icon is going to be overlaid on top of another 
icon by the Windows application. If that's indeed the case, its 
orientation needs to match where the Windows application is going to 
place it. If not, then matching Gnome would be just as well for better 
desktop integration.


> > oic_hand.ico - That sign is fine, but I was nitpicky and modified the
> > SVG to match the original one.
> 
> It's a good idea - again this is inherited from the Tango base set. The
> set seems ok to me.

If that one is modified, then certerror.bmp and smallicons.bmp will need 
to be updated in cryptui.dll.

I don't care much about the white cross vs the wrong way sign. But if 
switching to the white corss, it will also mean we'll have a white cross 
in a red square and a white cross in a red circle and they won't have 
the same meaning (just like on Windows).


> > dxdiag - The icon is way too similar to Mac OS X's logo. Use a
> > different styled X. 
> 
> Yes you're the third person to make that comment. I plan to redo it.

For me the X evokes the X server (even if one for the branches should be 
finer). So this icon evokes configuring the X server which is a bit 
puzzling. I don't think I could ever tie a single X to DirectX. So I'd 
suggest replacing it with either 'DX' or '3D' (eventhough the latter is 
a bit incorrect as dxdiag is about more than just 3D).


-- 
Francois Gouget   http://fgouget.free.fr/
I haven't lost my mind, it's backed up on tape around here somewhere...

Re: Wine in Tango

[Francois Gouget]

On Sat, 19 Sep 2009, Joel Holdsworth wrote:
[...]
> 16-bit works fine - X renders the icons in true color then downsamples.
> greyscale/monochrome will be similar, not that the end result would be
> pretty. A more realistic case is 8-bit, and the only way I can think to
> set that up is with ssh+X11 in cygwin in a WinXP VM with the screen
> depth set to 8-bit, but wine doesn't even start in this case due to
> missing extensions, so I assume it's not supported.

The right way to test paletted 8bpp is probably to use vncserver. 
Something like that should do it:

   vncserver -depth 8 -cc 3

I tested Wine in paletted mode years ago and it worked at the time.


-- 
Francois Gouget   http://fgouget.free.fr/
   Cahn's Axiom: When all else fails, read the instructions.

Re: Wine in Tango

[Scott Ritchie]

King InuYasha wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Joel
> Holdsworth  > wrote:
> > shortcut.ico - the icon is oriented improperly. It needs to be
> > bottom-left and oriented so the arrow points towards the center.
> 
> This is the orientation from Gnome. If you object this can be changed
> easily. Do it the way Windows does it, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Wine replicates Windows' effects, so it should look like Windows
> icon styles.

I don't know if we can say this.  Only when our Wine-supplied icons are
appearing near application-supplied icons do we gain some consistency by
 mimicing Windows style, but that consistency is confined to that
particular app.  Most icons the user sees are instead going to be
compared with the rest of the desktop and its applications, and adopting
a Tango style rather than a Windows style is the only way to get that
overall consistency.

If we're not careful, Wine apps may continue to stick out rather than be
just another part of the desktop.

Thanks,
Scott Ritchie

Re: Wine in Tango

[King InuYasha]

On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Joel Holdsworth 
 wrote:

>
> > floppy.ico - The replacement icon for this was a very bad choice. I
> > know that currently GNOME does this anyway, but it is a really bad
> > choice. It should represent a floppy DRIVE, not a floppy DISK.
>
> This is from the tango base. I'm not sure anyone would be confused. In
> fact it's much harder to show an FD drive clearly.
>
>
The problem is that a floppy disk is used quite a lot to represent "Save
File." While it isn't normally used in Tango that way, several GNOME and
wxWidgets applications do that. And all Windows apps that do not rely on
common controls do too.

Here is an example of a floppy drive icon:
http://www.iconspedia.com/icon/floppy-drive-178-.html

You could use the CD drive icon from Tango and replace the CD part with half
of a floppy disk image.


> > mycomputer.ico - Why is the 32x32 icon have a purple display instead
> > of a blue one like the smaller sized ones? Fix that for consistency.
> > Also I attached a SVG with it included that has WINE in the text
> > underneath the monitor instead of PONY. I couldn't figure out Inkscape
> > to get the color to change though.
>
> Good question - it's a product of Tango base. It didn't seem like a big
> deal to me. I can fix it if you feel that would be a good idea.
>
>
I really do think it should be fixed. It looks somewhat awkward when the
color changes like that.


> > mydocs.ico - Bad icon choice. I would suggest making a whole new one
> > to represent this one. "Home directory" is NOT the same as the "My
> > Documents folder," despite the fact that Wine erroneously equates the
> > two by default in winecfg.
>
> Yes I've been thinking about this. The alternative would be som
> ething like this:
>
> http://webcvs.freedesktop.org/tango/tango-icon-theme/scalable/actions/document-open.svg?view=co
>
> Though this is usually taken to mean "Open Document"
>
>
I suggest you could use the emblems for Documents, Pictures, Music, and
Videos along with the folder icon to make a new icon for  My
Documents/Pictures/Music/Videos. I really would not recommend using the
"Open Document" icon.


>
> > shortcut.ico - the icon is oriented improperly. It needs to be
> > bottom-left and oriented so the arrow points towards the center.
>
> This is the orientation from Gnome. If you object this can be changed
> easily. Do it the way Windows does it, right?
>


Yes, Wine replicates Windows' effects, so it should look like Windows icon
styles.


>
> > oic_hand.ico - That sign is fine, but I was nitpicky and modified the
> > SVG to match the original one.
>
> It's a good idea - again this is inherited from the Tango base set. The
> set seems ok to me.
>

An (X) is a bit more recognizable than a (-).


>
> > oic_note.ico - The icon is somewhat ambiguous, compared to the
> > original.
>
> Again inherited from the Tango base set.
>
>
>
Doesn't mean it can't be replaced. I'm guessing it just needs to follow
Tango style. You could use the question mark icon and modify it to show an
"i" for information. Or use an icon to symbolize a "note."

Fwd: Wine in Tango

[Reece Dunn]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Reece Dunn 
Date: 2009/9/19
Subject: Re: Wine in Tango
To: Henri Verbeet 


2009/9/19 Henri Verbeet :
> 2009/9/19 Joel Holdsworth :
>> On Sat, 2009-09-19 at 21:43 +0200, Henri Verbeet wrote:
>>> 2009/9/19 Vitaliy Margolen :
>>> > - The European stop sign is not known/used in US. It has no meaning to 
>>> > most
>>> > people.
>>> Actually, assuming you mean
>>> http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/oic_hand-48.png, that's not a
>>> stop sign in Europe either. It generally means "no entry", and I was
>>> under the impression it's used in that way in the US as well. Not that
>>> that makes it any more appropriate as an "error" sign. (Doesn't gnome
>>> use that one as well though? I guess that would at least make it
>>> recognizable to some people.)
>>
>> It's the dialog error icon from the Tango base set. Does that carry any
>> weight? maybe... maybe not. It seemed clear enough to me though.
>>
> Possibly, consistency is generally a good thing. I can't say I pay a
> whole lot of attention to the icons in messageboxes, but I could see
> how this one wouldn't be entirely clear on its own to a new user. The
> color red probably does more to convey the message "error" than the
> sign.

The error icon needs to be recognisable as well (aside from colour)
for people with red-green colour blindness.

A no entry sign doesn't really make sense here (although, it is the
correct image from a tango perspective). Tango does have an unofficial
(X) 'traditional' version (ref:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tango_icons), so it would probably
be better to use that instead.

Not sure what the Oxygen icon looks like.



On the whole, these icons are a major improvement. Well done.

Q: For the small 16x16 icons, why do some have the wine glass and some
don't (for the ones that have a wine glass on the larger versions)?

- Reece

Re: Wine in Tango

[Detlef Riekenberg]

On Sa, 2009-09-19 at 12:13 +0100, Joel Holdsworth wrote:

> The full set of Tango graphics can be seen here:
> http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/ . 

As I already mentioned a while ago, 
the new Icons looks nice, but some things are Strange:
- the lens is wrong in idb_std_small.bmp for print and print_preview.

- Print Previw on windows is a document with a lens, but in your
drawing,
  it's a printer with a lens (idb_std_*.bmp)

A typical use of both icons: wine wordpad

The icons for the programs are inconsistent:
- Wine glas size,
- Wine glas location
- The Wine glas also in the smallest symbol for notepad and wordpad,
  but missing in all other symbols

iexplore has no icon.


-- 
 
By by ... Detlef

Re: Wine in Tango

[Henri Verbeet]

2009/9/19 Joel Holdsworth :
> On Sat, 2009-09-19 at 21:43 +0200, Henri Verbeet wrote:
>> 2009/9/19 Vitaliy Margolen :
>> > - The European stop sign is not known/used in US. It has no meaning to most
>> > people.
>> Actually, assuming you mean
>> http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/oic_hand-48.png, that's not a
>> stop sign in Europe either. It generally means "no entry", and I was
>> under the impression it's used in that way in the US as well. Not that
>> that makes it any more appropriate as an "error" sign. (Doesn't gnome
>> use that one as well though? I guess that would at least make it
>> recognizable to some people.)
>
> It's the dialog error icon from the Tango base set. Does that carry any
> weight? maybe... maybe not. It seemed clear enough to me though.
>
Possibly, consistency is generally a good thing. I can't say I pay a
whole lot of attention to the icons in messageboxes, but I could see
how this one wouldn't be entirely clear on its own to a new user. The
color red probably does more to convey the message "error" than the
sign.

Re: Wine in Tango

[Joel Holdsworth]

On Sat, 2009-09-19 at 13:52 -0500, King InuYasha wrote:
> idb_std_large.bmp & idb_std_small.bmp - The third to last and the
> sixth to last icons do not make sense. I don't understand why they
> were designed the way they were. The icons imply something different
> from the original icons. Please change them to be more similar to the
> original icons.

Yes I see what you're saying. Looks like I have some work to do here.
First off, the print and print preview icons have become swapped, and
the Tango base Find icon looks a lot like the old print preview icon.

> floppy.ico - The replacement icon for this was a very bad choice. I
> know that currently GNOME does this anyway, but it is a really bad
> choice. It should represent a floppy DRIVE, not a floppy DISK. 

This is from the tango base. I'm not sure anyone would be confused. In
fact it's much harder to show an FD drive clearly.

> mycomputer.ico - Why is the 32x32 icon have a purple display instead
> of a blue one like the smaller sized ones? Fix that for consistency.
> Also I attached a SVG with it included that has WINE in the text
> underneath the monitor instead of PONY. I couldn't figure out Inkscape
> to get the color to change though. 

Good question - it's a product of Tango base. It didn't seem like a big
deal to me. I can fix it if you feel that would be a good idea.

> mydocs.ico - Bad icon choice. I would suggest making a whole new one
> to represent this one. "Home directory" is NOT the same as the "My
> Documents folder," despite the fact that Wine erroneously equates the
> two by default in winecfg.

Yes I've been thinking about this. The alternative would be som
ething like this:
http://webcvs.freedesktop.org/tango/tango-icon-theme/scalable/actions/document-open.svg?view=co

Though this is usually taken to mean "Open Document"

> netdrive2.ico & netdrive.ico - Very WRONG choice. These icons are
> supposed to be network DRIVES, not network SHARES. Network Shares have
> separate icons in shell32.dll.

Rrrr - you're right. I will need to fix this.

> shortcut.ico - the icon is oriented improperly. It needs to be
> bottom-left and oriented so the arrow points towards the center.

This is the orientation from Gnome. If you object this can be changed
easily. Do it the way Windows does it, right?

> oic_hand.ico - That sign is fine, but I was nitpicky and modified the
> SVG to match the original one.

It's a good idea - again this is inherited from the Tango base set. The
set seems ok to me.

> oic_note.ico - The icon is somewhat ambiguous, compared to the
> original. 

Again inherited from the Tango base set.

> dxdiag - The icon is way too similar to Mac OS X's logo. Use a
> different styled X. 

Yes you're the third person to make that comment. I plan to redo it.

> wcmd - Not really a problem, even though somebody else argued about
> adding C: to it.

Yes seems ok to me.

Re: Wine in Tango

[Joel Holdsworth]

On Sat, 2009-09-19 at 21:43 +0200, Henri Verbeet wrote:
> 2009/9/19 Vitaliy Margolen :
> > - The European stop sign is not known/used in US. It has no meaning to most
> > people.
> Actually, assuming you mean
> http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/oic_hand-48.png, that's not a
> stop sign in Europe either. It generally means "no entry", and I was
> under the impression it's used in that way in the US as well. Not that
> that makes it any more appropriate as an "error" sign. (Doesn't gnome
> use that one as well though? I guess that would at least make it
> recognizable to some people.)

It's the dialog error icon from the Tango base set. Does that carry any
weight? maybe... maybe not. It seemed clear enough to me though.

Re: Wine in Tango

[John Klehm]

On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Henri Verbeet  wrote:
> 2009/9/19 Vitaliy Margolen :
>> - The European stop sign is not known/used in US. It has no meaning to most
>> people.
> Actually, assuming you mean
> http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/oic_hand-48.png, that's not a
> stop sign in Europe either. It generally means "no entry", and I was
> under the impression it's used in that way in the US as well. Not that

Yup used for "Do Not Enter" as seen here:
http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_pages/0001-0412-0922-0613.html

I thought it worked alright as en error icon.

--John

Re: Wine in Tango

[Henri Verbeet]

2009/9/19 Vitaliy Margolen :
> - The European stop sign is not known/used in US. It has no meaning to most
> people.
Actually, assuming you mean
http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/oic_hand-48.png, that's not a
stop sign in Europe either. It generally means "no entry", and I was
under the impression it's used in that way in the US as well. Not that
that makes it any more appropriate as an "error" sign. (Doesn't gnome
use that one as well though? I guess that would at least make it
recognizable to some people.)

Re: Wine in Tango

[Vitaliy Margolen]

Joel Holdsworth wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> If anyone's interested I've published a working version of my Tango
> graphics for wine to Gitorious...
> 
> The full set of Tango graphics can be seen here:
> http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/ . There are still a few
> graphical things to fix: dxdiag, certwatermark.bmp.
> 
Most icons look awesome, great work! Have few questions about some of the icons:

Shell32:
- Folder is more open then closed, especially on big size icons.
- netdrive2 smallest size, should have red x raised a bit.
- shortcut should be in the lover left corner, not upper right.

I'm not sure I like all icons from user32.
- Why is the shape if the question changed? What's wrong with a balloon?
- Exclamation should really have yellow background. Use of red is
questionable. Traffic signs are not really suitable for icons.
- The European stop sign is not known/used in US. It has no meaning to most
people.
- Here and everywhere else, wine glass should be tilted, not standing upright.
- Incandescent light bulbs are outlawed you should be using them  This
icon probably fine until some one green looks at it.

WCMD icon - Wine not using *NIX paths, it's really is "c:".

Vitaliy.

Re: Wine in Tango

[Joel Holdsworth]

On Sat, 2009-09-19 at 19:02 +0400, Nikolay Sivov wrote:
> This looks really great. But what for a first look wine glass
> position 
> and size isn't consistent for 48x48 icons -
> is there any reason for that?

As I was drawing the icons, it didn't seem appropriate to draw the glass
in the same way for all the icons. e.g. I don't think it would be
appropriate to have a small glass for winetest - it wouldn't look good
with the tickbox. It's debatable for notepad, and wordpad; these are
more of a product of the tango icons I originally inherited from Ubuntu
Studio.

> Also it's interesting how will it look if a fallback to grayscale, 
> monochrome or 16-bit is needed? Maybe it's handled somewhere already,
> I don't know.

16-bit works fine - X renders the icons in true color then downsamples.
greyscale/monochrome will be similar, not that the end result would be
pretty. A more realistic case is 8-bit, and the only way I can think to
set that up is with ssh+X11 in cygwin in a WinXP VM with the screen
depth set to 8-bit, but wine doesn't even start in this case due to
missing extensions, so I assume it's not supported.

Re: Wine in Tango

[Nikolay Sivov]

Joel Holdsworth wrote:

Hi All,
  

Hi, Joel.

If anyone's interested I've published a working version of my Tango
graphics for wine to Gitorious...

http://gitorious.org/wine-tango/wine-tango
clone: git clone git://gitorious.org/wine-tango/wine-tango.git
branch: public-beta-1

This branch features Roderick Colenbrander's as-yet unmerged XRender
patches, some patches from me for 32-bit support in the areas of icons,
image lists and toolbars, and a partial set of patches to apply the
tango graphics for shell32, user32 and comdlg32. Graphics for other
apps/dlls are excluded, as well as the few tests I've produced.

The work is most clear to see if you open a file dialog, or a message
box.

The full set of Tango graphics can be seen here:
http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/ . There are still a few
graphical things to fix: dxdiag, certwatermark.bmp.
  
This looks really great. But what for a first look wine glass position 
and size isn't consistent for 48x48 icons -

is there any reason for that?

Also it's interesting how will it look if a fallback to grayscale, 
monochrome or 16-bit is needed? Maybe it's handled somewhere already,

I don't know.

Comments and criticisms are welcome!

Best Regards
Joel Holdsworth
  

Re: Wine in Tango

[John Klehm]

On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 6:13 AM, Joel Holdsworth
 wrote:
>
> The full set of Tango graphics can be seen here:
> http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/ . There are still a few
> graphical things to fix: dxdiag, certwatermark.bmp.
>

Looks really great.  Nice job :)

--John Klehm

Wine in Tango

[Joel Holdsworth]

Hi All,

If anyone's interested I've published a working version of my Tango
graphics for wine to Gitorious...

http://gitorious.org/wine-tango/wine-tango
clone: git clone git://gitorious.org/wine-tango/wine-tango.git
branch: public-beta-1

This branch features Roderick Colenbrander's as-yet unmerged XRender
patches, some patches from me for 32-bit support in the areas of icons,
image lists and toolbars, and a partial set of patches to apply the
tango graphics for shell32, user32 and comdlg32. Graphics for other
apps/dlls are excluded, as well as the few tests I've produced.

The work is most clear to see if you open a file dialog, or a message
box.

The full set of Tango graphics can be seen here:
http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/ . There are still a few
graphical things to fix: dxdiag, certwatermark.bmp.

Comments and criticisms are welcome!

Best Regards
Joel Holdsworth