Re: [WISPA] Local governments: FCC not playing fair

[George Rogato]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't it be better if both cable and 
telco could compete in each others markets?


George

Peter R. wrote:

Dawn DiPietro wrote:


As quoted from another article;

 Cable rates have risen 93% since 1990, and consumers should benefit 
from more competition."


Like we have benefited from phone competition and our local rates are so 
low.


DBS is cheaper -- but it has not affected the broadcast TV rates.



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Re: [WISPA] Local governments: FCC not playing fair

[Peter R.]

Dawn DiPietro wrote:


As quoted from another article;

 Cable rates have risen 93% since 1990, and consumers should benefit 
from more competition."



Like we have benefited from phone competition and our local rates are so low.

DBS is cheaper -- but it has not affected the broadcast TV rates.

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Re: [WISPA] Got Trango?

[Mark Nash]

Fox5800
Fox5800-D
Fox5800-D2

These ones.  I've got M5800 APs.

Don't want to buy in bulk, as I only have to use these off of a couple 
APs...mostly Mikrotik APs now with Tranzeo CPEs.


Thanks again...

Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
- Original Message - 
From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Got Trango?



No such thing as a 5830fox SU.

SUs are

5830SU
Fox5800
Fox5800-D
Fox5800-D2
FoxAtlasM5580

Quite honestly, based on new lower costs, not sure why you'd want to buy 
Trango used.
The only exception might be Fox-D, which has long range ability, ethernet 
control, and rfthreshold.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Nash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:19 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Got Trango?


I'm looking for some Trango 5830 Fox SU's (NOT ATLAS).  If you've got some 
and want to sell them, please hit me offlist.


Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
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Re: [WISPA] Letters of Intent

[George Rogato]

Congrats Larry!

You said you wanted to go to law school.

George



Larry Yunker wrote:
The contents of a letter of intent will vary greatly depending upon what 
purpose you hope to serve through execution of the document.
If I remember my Contracts course correctly, a letter of intent is not 
necessarily binding in any way (however, in the correct circumstances it 
might be made binding).  The courts consider three different types of 
letters of intent:

(1) "agreements to agree" - generally not inforceable
(2) "agreements with open terms" - key points have been agreed upon and 
the parties are bound, but additional gaps can be filled by some other 
authoritative source if necessary (i.e. the UCC)
(3) "contract to negotiate" - parties exchange promises to negotiate in 
goof faith.  All contracts contain an implied warranty of good faith and 
fair dealing, but some courts have agreed that the letter of intent 
strengthens your position if there is a breach of good faith.  The 
problem is that most courts have not decided this issue and/or refuse to 
hear it.  FYI, as far as I know, the Washington state supreme court has 
refused to decide this issue.


As a former owner of a WISP, the first document that I had drafted was a 
non-disclosure agreement.  That document should help protect each 
party's interests with regards-to misappropriation of information and 
unfair trade practices while each side shares sensitive information and 
decides whether a purchase agreement is advisable.


Best of Luck,
Larry Yunker
Network Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

P.S. DISCLAIMER - As a law student (not a lawyer), I must indicate that 
the information included in this document should not be construed to be 
legal advise.  You are advised to seek out the assistance of a licensed 
attorney who practices within your jurisdiction.



- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:10 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Letters of Intent


Hello,

Would any of your like to share a copy of a letter of intent to buy out
another party?

I have the chance to buy out another ISP/WISP.

Thanks!

ryan



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Re: [WISPA] Letters of Intent

[Larry Yunker]

The contents of a letter of intent will vary greatly depending upon what 
purpose you hope to serve through execution of the document.
If I remember my Contracts course correctly, a letter of intent is not 
necessarily binding in any way (however, in the correct circumstances it 
might be made binding).  The courts consider three different types of 
letters of intent:

(1) "agreements to agree" - generally not inforceable
(2) "agreements with open terms" - key points have been agreed upon and the 
parties are bound, but additional gaps can be filled by some other 
authoritative source if necessary (i.e. the UCC)
(3) "contract to negotiate" - parties exchange promises to negotiate in goof 
faith.  All contracts contain an implied warranty of good faith and fair 
dealing, but some courts have agreed that the letter of intent strengthens 
your position if there is a breach of good faith.  The problem is that most 
courts have not decided this issue and/or refuse to hear it.  FYI, as far as 
I know, the Washington state supreme court has refused to decide this issue.


As a former owner of a WISP, the first document that I had drafted was a 
non-disclosure agreement.  That document should help protect each party's 
interests with regards-to misappropriation of information and unfair trade 
practices while each side shares sensitive information and decides whether a 
purchase agreement is advisable.


Best of Luck,
Larry Yunker
Network Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

P.S. DISCLAIMER - As a law student (not a lawyer), I must indicate that the 
information included in this document should not be construed to be legal 
advise.  You are advised to seek out the assistance of a licensed attorney 
who practices within your jurisdiction.



- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:10 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Letters of Intent


Hello,

Would any of your like to share a copy of a letter of intent to buy out
another party?

I have the chance to buy out another ISP/WISP.

Thanks!

ryan

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Re: [WISPA] Local governments: FCC not playing fair

[Dawn DiPietro]

As quoted from another article;

"The congressional grilling will be of interest to investors in more 
than just AT&T and Verizon. Comcast  (nasdaq: CMCSA -  news  -  people 
), Time Warner  (nyse: TWX -  news  -  people ), Cablevision  (nyse: CVC 
-  news  -  people ), Liberty Global  (nasdaq: LBTYA -  news  -  people 
) and other entrenched cable providers have a stake in the future of 
this disputed regulation. So do TV viewers everywhere. Cable rates have 
risen 93% since 1990, and consumers should benefit from more competition."


Link for full story;
http://www.forbes.com/businessinthebeltway/2007/01/24/beltway-business-fcc-biz-wash-cz_td_0124beltway.html


George Rogato wrote:

WASHINGTON - The nation's chief telecommunications regulator stands 
accused of misrepresenting the facts while pushing through rules that 
will make it easier for big phone companies to get into cable television.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070128/ap_on_bi_ge/cable_competition




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Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing

[Blair Davis]

Why should ANY employer provide health care?

You work, they give you money, end of story

Travis Johnson wrote:

My health insurance company that I pay thousands of dollars per year 
is who foots the bill when my family goes to the ER... not the tax 
payers. I think that was his point.


Walmart is the largest private employer, yet a VERY small percentage 
of their workers have any benefits. So the concern is as Walmart 
continues to grow, so does the burden on the tax payers.


Travis
Microserv

wispa wrote:


On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 05:38:55 +, John J. Thomas wrote
 

I read an article once about this. What happens when Walmart can't 
drop prices any lower? 
   



Then their prices don't drop.  What's  confusing about that?

Who foots the bill when Walmart employees get 
 


sick and go to the Emergency room?
   



Who foots the bill when you or your children, or my children, or the guy 
across the street, or ANYONE goes to ER?   

That question is as irrelevant as it gets. 







Mark Koskenmaki  <> Neofast, Inc
Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains
541-969-8200

 



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Re: [WISPA] Local governments: FCC not playing fair

[Tom DeReggi]

Like,  its fair to break anti-trust laws, and subsidize broadband sales by 
TV and phone revenue.


Not sure, why Verizon doesn't cry, they are just a data provider, and set up 
Video feeds in another state, and bill/deliver TV over another company name?

Oh yeah, thats right, then they can't bundle to have the unfair advantage.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:14 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Local governments: FCC not playing fair


WASHINGTON - The nation's chief telecommunications regulator stands 
accused of misrepresenting the facts while pushing through rules that will 
make it easier for big phone companies to get into cable television.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070128/ap_on_bi_ge/cable_competition


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Re: [WISPA] Letters of Intent

[George Rogato]

Your best bet, is to see your lawyer.

Last time I had a lawyer draw me up a contract it was $500.00.
I'm sure it could be cheaper, but it's one of those things thats hard to 
bid out.


Also make sure the lawyer has some experience in the sale of business.

George

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hello,

Would any of your like to share a copy of a letter of intent to buy out 
another party?


I have the chance to buy out another ISP/WISP.

Thanks!

ryan



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[WISPA] Letters of Intent

[rspott-list]

Hello,

Would any of your like to share a copy of a letter of intent to buy out 
another party?


I have the chance to buy out another ISP/WISP.

Thanks!

ryan

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[WISPA] Letters of Intent

[rspott-list]

Hello,

Would any of your like to share a copy of a letter of intent to buy out 
another party?


I have the chance to buy out another ISP/WISP.

Thanks!

ryan

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Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing

[Blake Bowers]

- Original Message - 
From: "John J. Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing


I read an article once about this. What happens when Walmart can't drop 
prices any lower? Who foots the bill when Walmart employees get sick and 
go to the Emergency room?


John




Uh, the same people who foot the bill when a McDonalds employee
gets ill and goes to the ER?

Or a Best Buy employee..

Or a Circuit City employee

Or a contractor doing WISP installs


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[WISPA] Local governments: FCC not playing fair

[George Rogato]

WASHINGTON - The nation's chief telecommunications regulator stands 
accused of misrepresenting the facts while pushing through rules that 
will make it easier for big phone companies to get into cable television.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070128/ap_on_bi_ge/cable_competition


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Re: [WISPA] Boeing Fails to Learn from WISPs

[Tom DeReggi]

That is the most rediculaous thing I have ever heard.

in plane distribution- Wire weighs more than Radio waves.

to plane - Cable length exceeds Ethernet distance limit :-)  (joke)

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Boeing Fails to Learn from WISPs



200 lbs of aps and antennas  How the hell is THAT possible?

I'll bet all of my gear weighs in less than that and I've got 6000 square 
miles over coverage, not just one puny little airplane!


Steve, do your old bosses need help over there or what?  You need to go 
back to work for Boing!

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 10:34 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Boeing Fails to Learn from WISPs




Boeing is dropping it's plans to offer wireless access on the new 787 
Dreamliner. It will be using a WIRED network instead.



http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/301086_boeing25.html


The reasons given were:

1. Reducing the aircraft weight.

2. Difficulty in getting regulatory approval in a few countries.

3. The "prototype" system might not have delivered the expected 
performance.


Sure, reducing weight on an (already overweight) aircraft is good. Boeing 
says they are replacing 200 lbs of access points and antennas with 50 lbs 
of wiring; thereby saving 150 lbs.


Sure regulatory approval (2.4 GHz??) might have been a problem in some 
country - perhaps in Elbonia or Lower Slobovia.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbonia


My thinking is that Boeing engineers may have simply failed to learn a 
lesson that some WISPs have known for years. Any knowledgeable WISP could 
have told Boeing that putting two dozen access points inside an airplane 
cabin would create so much self-interference that the system would never 
deliver enough throughput to satisfy customers expectations for speed and 
performance.


jack


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Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
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Re: [WISPA] Got Trango?

[Tom DeReggi]

No such thing as a 5830fox SU.

SUs are

5830SU
Fox5800
Fox5800-D
Fox5800-D2
FoxAtlasM5580

Quite honestly, based on new lower costs, not sure why you'd want to buy 
Trango used.
The only exception might be Fox-D, which has long range ability, ethernet 
control, and rfthreshold.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Nash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:19 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Got Trango?


I'm looking for some Trango 5830 Fox SU's (NOT ATLAS).  If you've got some 
and want to sell them, please hit me offlist.


Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?

[Mark Nash]

No kidding... Over the last 5 years I've used 6 CPE types as new vendors 
came on line, prices came down from $600/cpe, PoE settled, etc etc etc.  I'm 
now going back through and standardizing them.  You're right, now WOULD be a 
good time to start a wireless business.


Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
- Original Message - 
From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?



Thanks Mark, for reiterating what I said.

 I wish I was Jim!

Boy would I have fun making a boat load of cash and doing everything right 
from the beginning!


There has never been as good a time to be a wisp as now.

George



Mark Nash wrote:
I agree with George on this... I'm a year into a 3-year contract with 
Sprint for multi-T1 service and I wish I wasn't.  Now I've got to make 
the most of it and go with a different provider for cheaper bandwidth 
while still maintaining the Sprint feed (which is arguably not a bad 
thing).


I also agree with the equipment advice.  Start out where you are...on a 
budget and hopefully not in debt on the project.  Don't be afraid to grow 
the quality of equipment with your business.  Listen, get advice, try, 
fail, adapt, learn, etc.  Decide on your route and go that way.  If you 
want to be sure, it's going to cost you.


I'm currently using Trango backhauls, switching to Mikrotik backhauls to 
see how it goes.  So far, so good.  Star-OS and Mikrotik are feature-rich 
and are made for your business without breaking the bank.  Pay attention 
to those words ... "without breaking the bank."


If you're not going to have this be a hobby, you'd better keep your costs 
down, because your quality of life is about to change.  The quicker you 
get over the hump financially, the quicker it can be rewarding, but there 
is a ton of work ahead to get there.


Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
- Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?


Jim, One bit of advice I can give you that most will not disagree with, 
is try not to do long term contracts with the telephone companies.
5 years is a very long time, lots can happen in 5 years, it's like an 
eternity.


Usually the telephone companies enforce their early termination fees and 
it can be quite a burden to carry.


So be carefull on with the telephone companies and try to do shorter 
term contracts.


Also try to get a provision that lowers your rate if the telephone 
company lowers it's rate during the contract.


George


Jim Stout wrote:

Thanks to all who replied to my initial question.  It might help to 
understand what I'm doing now and want to do in the future.


My wife and I live in rural Cass County Missouri.  We're too far out 
for Cable or DSL and Satellite is out of the question due to the havoc 
that huge amounts of latency wreaks upon VPN clients  So in order to 
get a high-speed connection out in the country, we dragged a T1 line to 
the house, stood up a 30' tower and began selling bandwidth to our 
neighbors. I learned all I know about this "stuff" at last Fall's 
ISPCON in Santa Clara so I'm feeling a little bit wind-burned right 
now.  This is also where I met John Scrivner who convinced me that 
joining WISPA was a great way to gain access to this community and 
continue to have the support group that I need.  Well, a few months 
have flown by and once word leaks out that there is an affordable 
high-speed Internet connection available, they truly beat down your 
door wanting to know when they can be installed.  I'm having a great 
time, enjoy the people and am considering making this more than just a 
"Hobby WISP."


We are about 30 or so miles from downtown Kansas City as the radio 
waves fly, and are relatively high up.  I spoke to my provider (AT&T) 
about additional bandwidth and out here they can continue to bring me 
T1 lines across copper, but I have to believe there's a more 
cost-effective solution available.  This is why I posed the original 
question.


I feel that I could serve about 500 clients in this rural area and 
would like the option of scaling up to 45Mbps to support them. 
Obviously bandwidth distrubution comes into play along with detailed 
planning and design, but at this point, I'm just looking for ideas to 
help me formulate my plans.


As always, thanks to all who have responded and continue to assist met!

Waremest regards, Jim

Jim Stout
LTO Communications, LLC
15701 Henry Andrews Dr
Pleasant Hill, MO 64080
(816) 305-1076 - Mobile
(816) 497-0033 - Pager

- Original Message - From: "John Rock" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[E

Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?

[George Rogato]

Thanks Mark, for reiterating what I said.

 I wish I was Jim!

Boy would I have fun making a boat load of cash and doing everything 
right from the beginning!


There has never been as good a time to be a wisp as now.

George



Mark Nash wrote:
I agree with George on this... I'm a year into a 3-year contract with 
Sprint for multi-T1 service and I wish I wasn't.  Now I've got to make 
the most of it and go with a different provider for cheaper bandwidth 
while still maintaining the Sprint feed (which is arguably not a bad 
thing).


I also agree with the equipment advice.  Start out where you are...on a 
budget and hopefully not in debt on the project.  Don't be afraid to 
grow the quality of equipment with your business.  Listen, get advice, 
try, fail, adapt, learn, etc.  Decide on your route and go that way.  If 
you want to be sure, it's going to cost you.


I'm currently using Trango backhauls, switching to Mikrotik backhauls to 
see how it goes.  So far, so good.  Star-OS and Mikrotik are 
feature-rich and are made for your business without breaking the bank.  
Pay attention to those words ... "without breaking the bank."


If you're not going to have this be a hobby, you'd better keep your 
costs down, because your quality of life is about to change.  The 
quicker you get over the hump financially, the quicker it can be 
rewarding, but there is a ton of work ahead to get there.


Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
- Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?


Jim, One bit of advice I can give you that most will not disagree 
with, is try not to do long term contracts with the telephone companies.
5 years is a very long time, lots can happen in 5 years, it's like an 
eternity.


Usually the telephone companies enforce their early termination fees 
and it can be quite a burden to carry.


So be carefull on with the telephone companies and try to do shorter 
term contracts.


Also try to get a provision that lowers your rate if the telephone 
company lowers it's rate during the contract.


George


Jim Stout wrote:

Thanks to all who replied to my initial question.  It might help to 
understand what I'm doing now and want to do in the future.


My wife and I live in rural Cass County Missouri.  We're too far out 
for Cable or DSL and Satellite is out of the question due to the 
havoc that huge amounts of latency wreaks upon VPN clients  So in 
order to get a high-speed connection out in the country, we dragged a 
T1 line to the house, stood up a 30' tower and began selling 
bandwidth to our neighbors. I learned all I know about this "stuff" 
at last Fall's ISPCON in Santa Clara so I'm feeling a little bit 
wind-burned right now.  This is also where I met John Scrivner who 
convinced me that joining WISPA was a great way to gain access to 
this community and continue to have the support group that I need.  
Well, a few months have flown by and once word leaks out that there 
is an affordable high-speed Internet connection available, they truly 
beat down your door wanting to know when they can be installed.  I'm 
having a great time, enjoy the people and am considering making this 
more than just a "Hobby WISP."


We are about 30 or so miles from downtown Kansas City as the radio 
waves fly, and are relatively high up.  I spoke to my provider (AT&T) 
about additional bandwidth and out here they can continue to bring me 
T1 lines across copper, but I have to believe there's a more 
cost-effective solution available.  This is why I posed the original 
question.


I feel that I could serve about 500 clients in this rural area and 
would like the option of scaling up to 45Mbps to support them.  
Obviously bandwidth distrubution comes into play along with detailed 
planning and design, but at this point, I'm just looking for ideas to 
help me formulate my plans.


As always, thanks to all who have responded and continue to assist met!

Waremest regards, Jim

Jim Stout
LTO Communications, LLC
15701 Henry Andrews Dr
Pleasant Hill, MO 64080
(816) 305-1076 - Mobile
(816) 497-0033 - Pager

- Original Message - From: "John Rock" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'WISPA General List'" 


Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?



We look at three primary things when addressing backhaul needs...
They are in order:
1. Path Analysis and Distance, Without LOS between the two desired 
sites
usually you can kiss the link goodbye. If there is LOS then how far 
we are

shooting helps determine antenna sizes.

2. Frequency Usage on site - Again helps determine the radio type.

3. Capacity - Helps determine radio type.

So.
Figure out where you are shooting from and to.
If that is OK then 

Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing

[John Scrivner]

I worded my original post incorrectly relating to the relevant topics 
for this list. Anything to do with promoting or improving the WISP 
industry fits within the scope of our Mission Statement in WISPA and 
would be relevant topics for discussion here. I would like to see more 
of the sensitive debates moved to our private list for operators only 
([EMAIL PROTECTED]). The general public list here (wireless@wispa.org) is 
no place for us to air the debates of our strategies going forward, in 
my own personal opinion. It is pretty hard to play poker if you have 
your hand turned around facing the table for all to see. To be frank, I 
also have no desire to cater to the general public's interests involving 
the direction of this organization. Our membership interests (Principle 
WISPA Members in particular) should drive the agenda and political 
efforts of this organization. Our members should also reap most of the 
benefits of the organization's efforts.


(Scriv on membership soapbox again)
If you are a WISP and you cannot afford the 20 some odd bucks a month to 
be a paid member here then why should we bother helping? Sorry to sound 
so brash but the payment is minimal for what WISPA has to offer to the 
WISPs here. If you are not paid up then get your procrastinating derrier 
over to http://signup.wispa.org and pay your dues. 100% of the money 
raised is used to pay to help you. Your board does not get paid (even 
though a small payment is within the rights of the law). We work for 
free here. Please at least have the decency to send your small financial 
support to our efforts if you feel this organization is helping you in 
your business.


Many of you, including Forbes, have made this step and I like to think 
that the more membership we have the more we can help you 
(exponentially). One of the first (very embarrassing things) I get asked 
by political types, vendors, investors, etc. is "How many WISPs are part 
of WISPA?" Well guess what guys. We know there are about 3000 to 5000 of 
you WISP operators out there and about 70 of you have the decency to pay 
up your dues in the only 501c6 Trade Association setup specifically to 
represent YOUR interests as WISP operators.


I already share all my best information strictly on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
email list server which is for paid WISP members only. I want the deck 
stacked in the favor of the WISP (especially those who pay their dues). 
That is why we exist. We need to use our public list to show we are 
working to the benefit of the industry and we need to keep the best of 
what we do on our private list so that only those who are real (see 
http://signup.wispa.org for how to become "real") members get the 
advantages of our work, our time and our dues. If this message angers 
you then pay your dues and you will have nothing to complain about.

Scriv



Forbes said:



I hope John doesn't relagate your need for political activity from any discussion list as their (WISPA) pledge when I joined this group is what interested me most.  Without being part of the political process it doesn't really matter what gear we run because we will always be on the outside.  


Scriv said:

The wireless@wispa.org list is supposed to be focused on wireless. 
 



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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?

[Mark Nash]

I agree with George on this... I'm a year into a 3-year contract with Sprint 
for multi-T1 service and I wish I wasn't.  Now I've got to make the most of 
it and go with a different provider for cheaper bandwidth while still 
maintaining the Sprint feed (which is arguably not a bad thing).


I also agree with the equipment advice.  Start out where you are...on a 
budget and hopefully not in debt on the project.  Don't be afraid to grow 
the quality of equipment with your business.  Listen, get advice, try, fail, 
adapt, learn, etc.  Decide on your route and go that way.  If you want to be 
sure, it's going to cost you.


I'm currently using Trango backhauls, switching to Mikrotik backhauls to see 
how it goes.  So far, so good.  Star-OS and Mikrotik are feature-rich and 
are made for your business without breaking the bank.  Pay attention to 
those words ... "without breaking the bank."


If you're not going to have this be a hobby, you'd better keep your costs 
down, because your quality of life is about to change.  The quicker you get 
over the hump financially, the quicker it can be rewarding, but there is a 
ton of work ahead to get there.


Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
- Original Message - 
From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?


Jim, One bit of advice I can give you that most will not disagree with, is 
try not to do long term contracts with the telephone companies.
5 years is a very long time, lots can happen in 5 years, it's like an 
eternity.


Usually the telephone companies enforce their early termination fees and 
it can be quite a burden to carry.


So be carefull on with the telephone companies and try to do shorter term 
contracts.


Also try to get a provision that lowers your rate if the telephone company 
lowers it's rate during the contract.


George


Jim Stout wrote:
Thanks to all who replied to my initial question.  It might help to 
understand what I'm doing now and want to do in the future.


My wife and I live in rural Cass County Missouri.  We're too far out for 
Cable or DSL and Satellite is out of the question due to the havoc that 
huge amounts of latency wreaks upon VPN clients  So in order to get a 
high-speed connection out in the country, we dragged a T1 line to the 
house, stood up a 30' tower and began selling bandwidth to our neighbors. 
I learned all I know about this "stuff" at last Fall's ISPCON in Santa 
Clara so I'm feeling a little bit wind-burned right now.  This is also 
where I met John Scrivner who convinced me that joining WISPA was a great 
way to gain access to this community and continue to have the support 
group that I need.  Well, a few months have flown by and once word leaks 
out that there is an affordable high-speed Internet connection available, 
they truly beat down your door wanting to know when they can be 
installed.  I'm having a great time, enjoy the people and am considering 
making this more than just a "Hobby WISP."


We are about 30 or so miles from downtown Kansas City as the radio waves 
fly, and are relatively high up.  I spoke to my provider (AT&T) about 
additional bandwidth and out here they can continue to bring me T1 lines 
across copper, but I have to believe there's a more cost-effective 
solution available.  This is why I posed the original question.


I feel that I could serve about 500 clients in this rural area and would 
like the option of scaling up to 45Mbps to support them.  Obviously 
bandwidth distrubution comes into play along with detailed planning and 
design, but at this point, I'm just looking for ideas to help me 
formulate my plans.


As always, thanks to all who have responded and continue to assist met!

Waremest regards, Jim

Jim Stout
LTO Communications, LLC
15701 Henry Andrews Dr
Pleasant Hill, MO 64080
(816) 305-1076 - Mobile
(816) 497-0033 - Pager

- Original Message - From: "John Rock" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'WISPA General List'" 


Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?



We look at three primary things when addressing backhaul needs...
They are in order:
1. Path Analysis and Distance, Without LOS between the two desired sites
usually you can kiss the link goodbye. If there is LOS then how far we 
are

shooting helps determine antenna sizes.

2. Frequency Usage on site - Again helps determine the radio type.

3. Capacity - Helps determine radio type.

So.
Figure out where you are shooting from and to.
If that is OK then find out what frequencies are in use at those sites.
Then know how much Bandwidth you will need or want.

To address your specific questions.
I would check with your current provider and ask them upgrade questions.
They may be able to provide you wit

RE: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing

[Forbes Mercy]

You go John, I agree.. OH NO I just did a mee too!  Ok really I did that on 
purpose to help John with his point.  So what really is the point of this 
email?   I just read an article from the AP that was re-printed in the Kansas 
City Star: http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/16567716.htm 
  that, to a 
poker player, is someone who is vulnerable but powerful, blinking.   Politics 
are very much a part of our industry and causing obstuctions for our 
competition is as important to us as what Wireless equipment works best.   Like 
John clearly stated it's not that we have to say what our feelings are about 
something but to represent something that could improve our ability to deliver 
service.  The FCC and local governments are taking a completely 'winner takes 
all' position - to localize power so your town so you and your city council can 
require cable and telco to give incentive for use of right of way and 
exclusivity.  This doesn't please the very "Bush-like" Kevin Martin who would 
federalize the whole country so he could have control if possible.  All perks 
for local communities would be stripped and only the rights and needs of the 
biggest donor corporations met.  oops did I accidently say political donors?

If you are an ISP as well as a WISP this is certainly the time to push your 
local legislative body to include "buy local" provisions against outside mesh 
groups that could run you out of business, right of way access sharing 
requirements in franchises and other provisions like sharing pole use for 
wireless mesh networks.  With the FCC, local government, cable and telco all 
pushing for their right to give you service for us not to insert ourselves into 
the battle and perhaps present the "Public Interest" perspective with our 
options of Wireless is to find our industry out in the cold when the dust 
settles and compromises have been made.

I hope John doesn't relagate your need for political activity from any 
discussion list as their (WISPA) pledge when I joined this group is what 
interested me most.  Without being part of the political process it doesn't 
really matter what gear we run because we will always be on the outside.  Look 
at any bandwidth speed test, how often does it give the choice of Fixed 
Wireless?   We could be that much of an outsider politically and that would 
mean that you have settled to always be a small player in the process.  Well 
step aside we dont' all strive for underachievement and this group needs to 
cowboy-up to this rare time of political activity and take a strong role in the 
rights we are given and the recognition we need for the public to take us 
seriously and for us to make a few bucks in our little niche of the world.

Forbes Mercy

President - Washington Broadband, Inc.

 

 

I cannot believe how many of you guys all decided that this thread could
be extended into a lengthy diatribe about Wal-mart. I use these lists to
learn and teach about the wireless industry and to help drive changes in
policy and law. We have people from time to time who join this list to
learn about our industry. I know of one guy who is working on a massive
plan to work with WISPs to give us funding opportunities and other
advantages. These guys leave here fast when their Inbox fills with
unrelated multiple messages about Wal-mart, me toos, my gear is better
than your gear, rants, etc..

We do have a place for this type of conversation though. It is also a
free list and I highly recommend you guys subscribe to it. It is called
[EMAIL PROTECTED] You can go here to subscribe:

http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/chat 
 

On the chat list you can digress all the way to talking about what brand
of underwear you buy at Wal-mart for all I care. The wireless@wispa.org
list is supposed to be focused on wireless. Let's all keep it that way.
Thank you,
John Scrivner
President
WISPA
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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?

[George Rogato]

Jim, One bit of advice I can give you that most will not disagree with, 
is try not to do long term contracts with the telephone companies.
5 years is a very long time, lots can happen in 5 years, it's like an 
eternity.


Usually the telephone companies enforce their early termination fees and 
it can be quite a burden to carry.


So be carefull on with the telephone companies and try to do shorter 
term contracts.


Also try to get a provision that lowers your rate if the telephone 
company lowers it's rate during the contract.


George


Jim Stout wrote:
Thanks to all who replied to my initial question.  It might help to 
understand what I'm doing now and want to do in the future.


My wife and I live in rural Cass County Missouri.  We're too far out for 
Cable or DSL and Satellite is out of the question due to the havoc that 
huge amounts of latency wreaks upon VPN clients  So in order to get a 
high-speed connection out in the country, we dragged a T1 line to the 
house, stood up a 30' tower and began selling bandwidth to our 
neighbors.  I learned all I know about this "stuff" at last Fall's 
ISPCON in Santa Clara so I'm feeling a little bit wind-burned right 
now.  This is also where I met John Scrivner who convinced me that 
joining WISPA was a great way to gain access to this community and 
continue to have the support group that I need.  Well, a few months have 
flown by and once word leaks out that there is an affordable high-speed 
Internet connection available, they truly beat down your door wanting to 
know when they can be installed.  I'm having a great time, enjoy the 
people and am considering making this more than just a "Hobby WISP."


We are about 30 or so miles from downtown Kansas City as the radio waves 
fly, and are relatively high up.  I spoke to my provider (AT&T) about 
additional bandwidth and out here they can continue to bring me T1 lines 
across copper, but I have to believe there's a more cost-effective 
solution available.  This is why I posed the original question.


I feel that I could serve about 500 clients in this rural area and would 
like the option of scaling up to 45Mbps to support them.  Obviously 
bandwidth distrubution comes into play along with detailed planning and 
design, but at this point, I'm just looking for ideas to help me 
formulate my plans.


As always, thanks to all who have responded and continue to assist met!

Waremest regards, Jim

Jim Stout
LTO Communications, LLC
15701 Henry Andrews Dr
Pleasant Hill, MO 64080
(816) 305-1076 - Mobile
(816) 497-0033 - Pager

- Original Message - From: "John Rock" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'WISPA General List'" 


Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?



We look at three primary things when addressing backhaul needs...
They are in order:
1. Path Analysis and Distance, Without LOS between the two desired sites
usually you can kiss the link goodbye. If there is LOS then how far we 
are

shooting helps determine antenna sizes.

2. Frequency Usage on site - Again helps determine the radio type.

3. Capacity - Helps determine radio type.

So.
Figure out where you are shooting from and to.
If that is OK then find out what frequencies are in use at those sites.
Then know how much Bandwidth you will need or want.

To address your specific questions.
I would check with your current provider and ask them upgrade questions.
They may be able to provide you with a fractional DS3 at really 
attractive
rates. If they can't provide that then ask them if they recommend a 
carrier
in your area. I would then need to look further at your network to 
determine

best backhaul to the different legs of the network.

Transport of choose is 5.8Ghz radios and then probably licensed.

Distances are form 0-40+ miles. The farther you shoot the better the
planning and budgeting needs to be. Typical links seem to be between 5-20
miles...

Bandwidth - Licensed can be out of this world fast but you are probably
looking at unlicensed, 18-54Mbs over the air which translates to about 
10-35
actual throughputs max. We would base that need on planned growth over 
a one

to two year period.

Cost = Cheap - very expensive. All based on need. How much do you want to
spend???

John Rock
ACC, Inc., Wireless Connections Division
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ph. 419.668.4080 x2234
fax 419-668-4077
Mon-Fri 8am-5pm
http://www.accnorwalk.com
http://www.windcastbroadband.com
http://www.wirelessconnections.net


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:09 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?

Folks,



  I'm looking out about 6 months and expect to run out of bandwidth 
with my

current T1 line.  That's the good news because it means that I have more
demand than supply.  My niche is that I serve the rural community and
gettin

Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?

[George Rogato]

I'd agree with your plan Marlon, but in all thuthfullness, I doubt 
you've ever tried Star-os I would be shocked if you actually did, 
because you have to route to use Star and we know your a bridger not a 
router.


I have 700 wireless subs comming off a star wireless backhaul with no 
issues to date.


 I've been using Star-os for my PtP's and PtMP's for years and I can 
tell you Star works just fine for backhauls. As a matter of fact I have 
yet to find where it doesn't work well.


Lots of wispa are using Star and MT for backhauls.
Now Smart Bridges, I will agree with you on.

Cisco, Tranzeo, I would also have a hard time believing don't work for 
backhauls. But I have limited experience with those.


If Jim is just starting out, he may have budget restraints, and with 
that I'd definatly be looking at Star for a backhaul.

10-20K verses 1-2k is quite a difference.

And if he did have an issue that arose from interference along the way, 
he could easily, easily make the bigger investment in orthogon radios.

And then he could use the star in other places.

I would start out being conservative first.

George


Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

Hi Jim,

FIRST, find a place in KC that's high enough to see your local.  OR a 
spot mid way to your local.


If you can get Bandwidth at that spot AND see your head end, then this 
is a no brainier for me.  Drop in an Orthogon link and off you go.  
(note, you may be under a long term contract with your t-1)  My guess is 
that you'll need 4' dishes on each end to get the link reliable, your 
vendor should be able to tell you for sure though.


If you end up cutting the link in two, I'd go with something a bit more 
small scale.  The new Alvarion BH units would likely do the trick.  I 
like the new Airaya radios as well.  Use as many links as it takes.


For this distance you are likely looking at $10,000 to $20,000.  On a 5 
year loan the price of that will likely be very close to the cost of 
your t-1 transport!


One other note Jim.  WiFi is NOT reliable for backhaul to more than a 
few subscribers.  I use wifi only to feed towers that handle less than 
100 users out here.  I don't care what band it's in  WiFi, ALL WiFi 
has a backoff mechanism in place for when it hits interference.  You 
want a backhaul system that does NOT use any such mechanism.  The 
backhaul radios should always keep trying.  Orthogon, Motorola, 
Alvarion, Trango etc. work for me. StarOS, Mikrotik, Cisco, Tranzeo, 
SmartBridges etc. don't work for me.


Touch base with me if you'd like to talk about this some more.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - From: "Jim Stout" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?


Thanks to all who replied to my initial question.  It might help to 
understand what I'm doing now and want to do in the future.


My wife and I live in rural Cass County Missouri.  We're too far out 
for Cable or DSL and Satellite is out of the question due to the havoc 
that huge amounts of latency wreaks upon VPN clients  So in order to 
get a high-speed connection out in the country, we dragged a T1 line 
to the house, stood up a 30' tower and began selling bandwidth to our 
neighbors. I learned all I know about this "stuff" at last Fall's 
ISPCON in Santa Clara so I'm feeling a little bit wind-burned right 
now.  This is also where I met John Scrivner who convinced me that 
joining WISPA was a great way to gain access to this community and 
continue to have the support group that I need.  Well, a few months 
have flown by and once word leaks out that there is an affordable 
high-speed Internet connection available, they truly beat down your 
door wanting to know when they can be installed. I'm having a great 
time, enjoy the people and am considering making this more than just a 
"Hobby WISP."


We are about 30 or so miles from downtown Kansas City as the radio 
waves fly, and are relatively high up.  I spoke to my provider (AT&T) 
about additional bandwidth and out here they can continue to bring me 
T1 lines across copper, but I have to believe there's a more 
cost-effective solution available.  This is why I posed the original 
question.


I feel that I could serve about 500 clients in this rural area and 
would like the option of scaling up to 45Mbps to support them.  
Obviously bandwidth distrubution comes into play along with detailed 
planning and design, but at this point, I'm just looking for ideas to 
help me formulate my plans.


As always, thanks to all who have responded and continue to assist met!

Waremest regards, Jim

Jim Stout
LTO Communications, LLC
15701 Henry Andrews Dr
Pleasant Hill, MO 64080
(816) 305-1076 - Mobile
(816) 497-0033 - Pager

- Original Message - From: "John Rock" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'WISPA General List'" 


Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where 

[WISPA] Got Trango?

[Mark Nash]

I'm looking for some Trango 5830 Fox SU's (NOT ATLAS).  If you've got some and 
want to sell them, please hit me offlist.

Mark Nash
Network Engineer
UnwiredOnline.Net
350 Holly Street
Junction City, OR 97448
http://www.uwol.net
541-998-
541-998-5599 fax
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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Hi Jim,

FIRST, find a place in KC that's high enough to see your local.  OR a spot 
mid way to your local.


If you can get Bandwidth at that spot AND see your head end, then this is a 
no brainier for me.  Drop in an Orthogon link and off you go.  (note, you 
may be under a long term contract with your t-1)  My guess is that you'll 
need 4' dishes on each end to get the link reliable, your vendor should be 
able to tell you for sure though.


If you end up cutting the link in two, I'd go with something a bit more 
small scale.  The new Alvarion BH units would likely do the trick.  I like 
the new Airaya radios as well.  Use as many links as it takes.


For this distance you are likely looking at $10,000 to $20,000.  On a 5 year 
loan the price of that will likely be very close to the cost of your t-1 
transport!


One other note Jim.  WiFi is NOT reliable for backhaul to more than a few 
subscribers.  I use wifi only to feed towers that handle less than 100 users 
out here.  I don't care what band it's in  WiFi, ALL WiFi has a backoff 
mechanism in place for when it hits interference.  You want a backhaul 
system that does NOT use any such mechanism.  The backhaul radios should 
always keep trying.  Orthogon, Motorola, Alvarion, Trango etc. work for me. 
StarOS, Mikrotik, Cisco, Tranzeo, SmartBridges etc. don't work for me.


Touch base with me if you'd like to talk about this some more.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Jim Stout" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?


Thanks to all who replied to my initial question.  It might help to 
understand what I'm doing now and want to do in the future.


My wife and I live in rural Cass County Missouri.  We're too far out for 
Cable or DSL and Satellite is out of the question due to the havoc that 
huge amounts of latency wreaks upon VPN clients  So in order to get a 
high-speed connection out in the country, we dragged a T1 line to the 
house, stood up a 30' tower and began selling bandwidth to our neighbors. 
I learned all I know about this "stuff" at last Fall's ISPCON in Santa 
Clara so I'm feeling a little bit wind-burned right now.  This is also 
where I met John Scrivner who convinced me that joining WISPA was a great 
way to gain access to this community and continue to have the support 
group that I need.  Well, a few months have flown by and once word leaks 
out that there is an affordable high-speed Internet connection available, 
they truly beat down your door wanting to know when they can be installed. 
I'm having a great time, enjoy the people and am considering making this 
more than just a "Hobby WISP."


We are about 30 or so miles from downtown Kansas City as the radio waves 
fly, and are relatively high up.  I spoke to my provider (AT&T) about 
additional bandwidth and out here they can continue to bring me T1 lines 
across copper, but I have to believe there's a more cost-effective 
solution available.  This is why I posed the original question.


I feel that I could serve about 500 clients in this rural area and would 
like the option of scaling up to 45Mbps to support them.  Obviously 
bandwidth distrubution comes into play along with detailed planning and 
design, but at this point, I'm just looking for ideas to help me formulate 
my plans.


As always, thanks to all who have responded and continue to assist met!

Waremest regards, Jim

Jim Stout
LTO Communications, LLC
15701 Henry Andrews Dr
Pleasant Hill, MO 64080
(816) 305-1076 - Mobile
(816) 497-0033 - Pager

- Original Message - 
From: "John Rock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'WISPA General List'" 


Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?



We look at three primary things when addressing backhaul needs...
They are in order:
1. Path Analysis and Distance, Without LOS between the two desired sites
usually you can kiss the link goodbye. If there is LOS then how far we 
are

shooting helps determine antenna sizes.

2. Frequency Usage on site - Again helps determine the radio type.

3. Capacity - Helps determine radio type.

So.
Figure out where you are shooting from and to.
If that is OK then find out what frequencies are in use at those sites.
Then know how much Bandwidth you will need or want.

To address your specific questions.
I would check with your current provider and ask them upgrade questions.
They may be able to provide you with a fractional DS3 at really 
attractive
rates. If they can't provide that then ask them if they recommend a 
carrier
in your area. I would then need to look further at your network to 
determine

best backhaul to the different legs of the network.

Transport of choose is 5.8Ghz radios and then probably licensed.

Distances are form 0-40+ miles. The farther you shoot the better the
planning and budgeting needs to be. Typical links 

Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?

[Jim Stout]

Thanks to all who replied to my initial question.  It might help to 
understand what I'm doing now and want to do in the future.


My wife and I live in rural Cass County Missouri.  We're too far out for 
Cable or DSL and Satellite is out of the question due to the havoc that huge 
amounts of latency wreaks upon VPN clients  So in order to get a high-speed 
connection out in the country, we dragged a T1 line to the house, stood up a 
30' tower and began selling bandwidth to our neighbors.  I learned all I 
know about this "stuff" at last Fall's ISPCON in Santa Clara so I'm feeling 
a little bit wind-burned right now.  This is also where I met John Scrivner 
who convinced me that joining WISPA was a great way to gain access to this 
community and continue to have the support group that I need.  Well, a few 
months have flown by and once word leaks out that there is an affordable 
high-speed Internet connection available, they truly beat down your door 
wanting to know when they can be installed.  I'm having a great time, enjoy 
the people and am considering making this more than just a "Hobby WISP."


We are about 30 or so miles from downtown Kansas City as the radio waves 
fly, and are relatively high up.  I spoke to my provider (AT&T) about 
additional bandwidth and out here they can continue to bring me T1 lines 
across copper, but I have to believe there's a more cost-effective solution 
available.  This is why I posed the original question.


I feel that I could serve about 500 clients in this rural area and would 
like the option of scaling up to 45Mbps to support them.  Obviously 
bandwidth distrubution comes into play along with detailed planning and 
design, but at this point, I'm just looking for ideas to help me formulate 
my plans.


As always, thanks to all who have responded and continue to assist met!

Waremest regards, Jim

Jim Stout
LTO Communications, LLC
15701 Henry Andrews Dr
Pleasant Hill, MO 64080
(816) 305-1076 - Mobile
(816) 497-0033 - Pager

- Original Message - 
From: "John Rock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'WISPA General List'" 


Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?



We look at three primary things when addressing backhaul needs...
They are in order:
1. Path Analysis and Distance, Without LOS between the two desired sites
usually you can kiss the link goodbye. If there is LOS then how far we are
shooting helps determine antenna sizes.

2. Frequency Usage on site - Again helps determine the radio type.

3. Capacity - Helps determine radio type.

So.
Figure out where you are shooting from and to.
If that is OK then find out what frequencies are in use at those sites.
Then know how much Bandwidth you will need or want.

To address your specific questions.
I would check with your current provider and ask them upgrade questions.
They may be able to provide you with a fractional DS3 at really attractive
rates. If they can't provide that then ask them if they recommend a 
carrier
in your area. I would then need to look further at your network to 
determine

best backhaul to the different legs of the network.

Transport of choose is 5.8Ghz radios and then probably licensed.

Distances are form 0-40+ miles. The farther you shoot the better the
planning and budgeting needs to be. Typical links seem to be between 5-20
miles...

Bandwidth - Licensed can be out of this world fast but you are probably
looking at unlicensed, 18-54Mbs over the air which translates to about 
10-35
actual throughputs max. We would base that need on planned growth over a 
one

to two year period.

Cost = Cheap - very expensive. All based on need. How much do you want to
spend???

John Rock
ACC, Inc., Wireless Connections Division
ACCessing the Future Today!!
ph. 419.668.4080 x2234
fax 419-668-4077
Mon-Fri 8am-5pm
http://www.accnorwalk.com
http://www.windcastbroadband.com
http://www.wirelessconnections.net


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:09 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul - Where Do I Begin?

Folks,



  I'm looking out about 6 months and expect to run out of bandwidth with 
my

current T1 line.  That's the good news because it means that I have more
demand than supply.  My niche is that I serve the rural community and
getting bandwidth out here is a challenge.  I would like to begin planning
for an expanded service area but the first problem I need to solve is the
acquisition of more bandwidth.



  I think the most likely solution would be for a wireless backhaul but I
have no idea where to begin.  Since you all have helped so much in the 
past,
I figured this forum would at least set me on the correct path.  Questions 
I

have include:  Who are the cost-effective providers?  What's the transport
medium of choice?  What kinds of distances are available?  What is the 
unit

of band

Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing

[Travis Johnson]

My health insurance company that I pay thousands of dollars per year is
who foots the bill when my family goes to the ER... not the tax payers.
I think that was his point.

Walmart is the largest private employer, yet a VERY small percentage of
their workers have any benefits. So the concern is as Walmart continues
to grow, so does the burden on the tax payers.

Travis
Microserv

wispa wrote:

  On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 05:38:55 +, John J. Thomas wrote
  
  
I read an article once about this. What happens when Walmart can't 
drop prices any lower? 

  
  
Then their prices don't drop.  What's  confusing about that?

Who foots the bill when Walmart employees get 
  
  
sick and go to the Emergency room?

  
  
Who foots the bill when you or your children, or my children, or the guy 
across the street, or ANYONE goes to ER?   

That question is as irrelevant as it gets. 






Mark Koskenmaki  <> Neofast, Inc
Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains
541-969-8200

  



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Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing

[John Scrivner]

I cannot believe how many of you guys all decided that this thread could 
be extended into a lengthy diatribe about Wal-mart. I use these lists to 
learn and teach about the wireless industry and to help drive changes in 
policy and law. We have people from time to time who join this list to 
learn about our industry. I know of one guy who is working on a massive 
plan to work with WISPs to give us funding opportunities and other 
advantages. These guys leave here fast when their Inbox fills with 
unrelated multiple messages about Wal-mart, me toos, my gear is better 
than your gear, rants, etc..


We do have a place for this type of conversation though. It is also a 
free list and I highly recommend you guys subscribe to it. It is called 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] You can go here to subscribe:


http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/chat

On the chat list you can digress all the way to talking about what brand 
of underwear you buy at Wal-mart for all I care. The wireless@wispa.org 
list is supposed to be focused on wireless. Let's all keep it that way.

Thank you,
John Scrivner
President
WISPA
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Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing

[wispa]

On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 05:38:55 +, John J. Thomas wrote
> I read an article once about this. What happens when Walmart can't 
> drop prices any lower? 

Then their prices don't drop.  What's  confusing about that?

Who foots the bill when Walmart employees get 
> sick and go to the Emergency room?

Who foots the bill when you or your children, or my children, or the guy 
across the street, or ANYONE goes to ER?   

That question is as irrelevant as it gets. 






Mark Koskenmaki  <> Neofast, Inc
Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains
541-969-8200

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