[WISPA] Cisco on calculating RF values

2008-09-26 Thread Rogelio
I found this URL while googling for more info on Brian Webster's 
response to my 4.9 question (on why smaller channels were more efficient).

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk722/tk809/technologies_tech_note09186a00800e90fe.shtml

I was wondering if 9db was the amount of wattage others here found was 
amount necessary to double indoor coverage (as opposed to 6 db for 
outdoor coverage).




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Re: [WISPA] Cisco on calculating RF values

2008-09-26 Thread Jack Unger
Rogelio,

The Cisco website seems to be down at the moment but RF is still RF and 
it behaves the same way indoors as it behaves outdoors except of course 
if there are more obstructions indoors than outdoors.

In that case, then yes, depending on the nature of the obstructions, 
more power would be necessary at both ends of an indoor link to have 
same bidirectional throughput and reliability as an equivalent-length 
link outdoors. A 6 dB power increase doubles the link distance. Doubling 
the LINK DISTANCE from/to an access point (assuming an omnidirectional 
antenna on the AP) will make the COVERAGE AREA four times larger 
(because the area of a circle is pi (3.14) times the radius of the 
circle squared).

To simply double the coverage AREA of a circle (as opposed to doubling 
the DISTANCE of a link) would then take something less than 6 dB 
(assuming no obstructions and assuming a straight linear decrease in the 
peak number of sunspots that first appear during the time frame between 
the waxing and the waning moon in the month of December of every third 
even year after 1776).

jack


Rogelio wrote:
 I found this URL while googling for more info on Brian Webster's 
 response to my 4.9 question (on why smaller channels were more efficient).

 http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk722/tk809/technologies_tech_note09186a00800e90fe.shtml

 I was wondering if 9db was the amount of wattage others here found was 
 amount necessary to double indoor coverage (as opposed to 6 db for 
 outdoor coverage).



 
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-- 
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Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
NEXT ONLINE TRAINING OCTOBER 8th  9th  http://www.linktechs.net/askwi.asp
FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger
Phone 818-227-4220  Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]






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Re: [WISPA] Cisco on calculating RF values

2008-09-26 Thread Brian Webster
And to further add to what Jack said:

When you are tying to factor indoor coverage, there are soo many things 
to
consider. Building construction is the big one. If they have metal siding on
the house or if it is stucco laid over a wire mesh, the signal will be
almost dead inside unless some of it sneaks in through the widows. Now if
the windows have metallic tint on them that creates problems too. Add the
attenuation of multiple walls and/or the possibility of a client location in
the basement and you can see the pitfalls of planning indoor coverage
(especially over a large geographic area). I would say that adding only 3 dB
to get indoor coverage will be way to low. Think back to the days of
analog cellular, when you could hear the signal fades and how you had to
move around inside a building to get a good call. That was at 800 MHz, go
higher in frequency and the signal gets absorbed a lot more by building
materials. It's really a nightmare to try and plan for, especially in the
unlicensed spectrum.



Thank You,
Brian Webster

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 5:05 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco on calculating RF values


Rogelio,

The Cisco website seems to be down at the moment but RF is still RF and
it behaves the same way indoors as it behaves outdoors except of course
if there are more obstructions indoors than outdoors.

In that case, then yes, depending on the nature of the obstructions,
more power would be necessary at both ends of an indoor link to have
same bidirectional throughput and reliability as an equivalent-length
link outdoors. A 6 dB power increase doubles the link distance. Doubling
the LINK DISTANCE from/to an access point (assuming an omnidirectional
antenna on the AP) will make the COVERAGE AREA four times larger
(because the area of a circle is pi (3.14) times the radius of the
circle squared).

To simply double the coverage AREA of a circle (as opposed to doubling
the DISTANCE of a link) would then take something less than 6 dB
(assuming no obstructions and assuming a straight linear decrease in the
peak number of sunspots that first appear during the time frame between
the waxing and the waning moon in the month of December of every third
even year after 1776).

jack


Rogelio wrote:
 I found this URL while googling for more info on Brian Webster's
 response to my 4.9 question (on why smaller channels were more efficient).


http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk722/tk809/technologies_tech_note09186a0080
0e90fe.shtml

 I was wondering if 9db was the amount of wattage others here found was
 amount necessary to double indoor coverage (as opposed to 6 db for
 outdoor coverage).



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--
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
NEXT ONLINE TRAINING OCTOBER 8th  9th  http://www.linktechs.net/askwi.asp
FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile
http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger
Phone 818-227-4220  Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]







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Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas

2008-09-26 Thread Jeff Ehman
Yeah pretty sure we have some of the MTIs if that is what you are looking for.  
Email me.

-Jeff
General Manager
CTI
(773) 667-4585 x2509


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:23 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas

We use the MTI MT-485025/NVH, 23dBi dual-pol panel and have found them as
low as $150 each.

 !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
 html
 head
 /head
 body bgcolor=#ff text=#00
 All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curiousbr
 br
 I'm looking for a dual pol antenna...br
 br
 What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V-Pol
 on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain.  A narrow beam width is a
 plus.br
 br
 A grid or a dish will be fine.  I'd like to keep the price down as if
 it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective.  I can
 mount
 2 antennas at this location if I have to.br
 br
 This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of
 about 50ft of LMR-400.br
 br
 Thanks for any ideasbr
 br
 Blairbr
 br
 /body
 /html


 
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Re: [WISPA] Who stocks PacW DP feeds

2008-09-26 Thread Blair Davis




You have some Comet.

But to get most of the rest, stock Hyperlink :)

Mike Brownson wrote:

  The NS2 is a long story and not suitable for the list.  The EOC2610 I'm psyc'd about, but it's new and Engenius is getting their first volume shipment toward the end of October.  So I suspect those will be in good supply afterwards.  And thanks for using Hutton.  How do we get your antennas ;)
 
Mike



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Blair Davis
Sent: Wed 9/24/2008 11:52 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Who stocks PacW DP feeds


This is for Mike and it is off topic

Mike, what is the deal with hutton getting the Ubiquity NS2 or the Senao EOC-2610 back in stock?  

Hutton has become my main wireless supplier for radios, cards, boards and other parts, excluding antennas.  

Thanks,  

Blair

Mike Brownson wrote: 

	Tom,  Thanks for the good word.  On the web site, if it says call for availability it means there are none in stock and the lead time has not been entered for that product.  So you're right to think that it's not going to ship the next day.  But I'll pass your note on to the product manager for Pac and see about uping the levels for the 29DP.  I thought it was normally a stock item.  But sometimes we run out before the next shipment comes in.  Again I'll check.   Thanks.
	 
	Mike B
	
	
	
	From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Tom DeReggi
	Sent: Wed 9/24/2008 2:24 PM
	To: WISPA General List
	Subject: Re: [WISPA] Who stocks PacW DP feeds
	
	
	
	Well... I've always been a big fan of Hutton/Electrocom, and they do sell
	them, and have a great price on the feeds.
	Stocking of DP products is a different story.  Unfortunteately, the majority
	of the time, when I need them , usually the last minute :-), the parts I
	need are usually "check for availabilty". :-(  That makes it hard to place
	an order at 8pm online, when I finally get time, and get a sense of whether
	the product will arrive on time for my need.  So I was just looking for
	additional options.  I was also wondering if Pac's model is now just for
	vendors to have Pac just Drop ship, and vendors generally not planning on
	stocking, which would also be OK.  On an ongoing basis, I just don't want to
	have to wait  for a product to be shipped to the distributor, and then from
	distributor to me, as that duplicates shipping costs and/or slows delivery
	so the distributor can coordinate lower cost bulk shipping methods to get it
	to them first.  Its worse when I'm east coast, and distributor is west
	coast. I believe in distribution, when distributors are willing to stock the
	merchandise regularly. But in the past, very few vendors have been willing
	to stock DP products. I'm concerned on what availabilty will be in the
	future also.  For small radios, and stuff, the arguement is always The
	WISP should buy larger quantities and stiock more inventory. But Parabolics
	are large antennas, and take up a lot of space, so generally don't like to
	stock a lot of them in our "office" environment.  I'd rather overnight a
	feed, or buy the full dish more locally.
	
	Now that Pac is refusing to fill orders direct, for these little things, I
	hope distributors will pick up the slack, so we don't have to wait 2 weeks,
	everytime we want a DP antenna.
	
	Tom DeReggi
	RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
	IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
	
	
	- Original Message -
	From: "3-dB Networks" [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
	To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
	Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:05 AM
	Subject: Re: [WISPA] Who stocks PacW DP feeds
	
	
	  

		Tom,
		
		Hutton carries them... I can check stock for you in a few hours if you
		like
		
		Daniel White
		3-dB Networks
		
		-Original Message-
		From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
		Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
		Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:21 PM
		To: WISPA General List
		Subject: [WISPA] Who stocks PacW DP feeds
		
		So... Now that PacWireless's (Laird) online store is no more, and they are
		now more reliant on their Distribution partners
		
		Who stocks the 29db DP Feeds and dishes? Is it back to special order or
		Drop
		
		ship?
		
		Specifically referring to the HDDA5W-29-DP models.
		
		Tom DeReggi
		RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
		IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
		
		
		
		
		
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Re: [WISPA] routers

2008-09-26 Thread Matt Jenkins
I have some media flex units here. They work REALLY well!!! If you have 
a house that a normal wireless router has trouble covering, this unit 
seems to do a much better job.

RickG wrote:
 Ruckus media flex are over $100.
 
 On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Whats not under $100?

 On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 1:34 PM, RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Nice try but I said under $100 :)

 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 11:51 PM, CHUCK  PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ruckus media flex

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of RickG
 Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:54 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] routers

 Consumer routers are going to be the death of me. I've tried almost
 all of them. Every year the off the shelf retailers take turn
 providing the better unit, or worst unit depending on how you look at
 it. As Travis said, consumers are not techies and can only handle a
 browser configurable router that doesnt cost over $100. To that end,
 you would think there would be a good unit that can do the simple job
 asked of it. So far, the winner this year is the Linksys WRT310N
 Wireless-N Gigabit Router. I've been installing them all year and so
 far no problems. BTW: The cheaper WRT54G series suck.

 -RickG

 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Charles Wyble [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 www.routerboard.com might have some useful items.


 Travis Johnson wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm looking for a recommendation on an Ethernet router (two ports or
 more) that is somewhere in between a $50 Linksys and a $500 Cisco ASA.
 Something that will do some basic QoS would be nice. Any suggestions?

 thanks,

 Travis
 Microserv



 
 
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 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
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Re: [WISPA] routers

2008-09-26 Thread 3-dB Networks
We just became a reseller for the ZoneFlex gear... it really impresses me
too!

Daniel White
3-dB Networks

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Jenkins
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:00 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] routers

I have some media flex units here. They work REALLY well!!! If you have 
a house that a normal wireless router has trouble covering, this unit 
seems to do a much better job.

RickG wrote:
 Ruckus media flex are over $100.
 
 On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 Whats not under $100?

 On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 1:34 PM, RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Nice try but I said under $100 :)

 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 11:51 PM, CHUCK  PROFITO
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ruckus media flex

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of RickG
 Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:54 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] routers

 Consumer routers are going to be the death of me. I've tried almost
 all of them. Every year the off the shelf retailers take turn
 providing the better unit, or worst unit depending on how you look at
 it. As Travis said, consumers are not techies and can only handle a
 browser configurable router that doesnt cost over $100. To that end,
 you would think there would be a good unit that can do the simple job
 asked of it. So far, the winner this year is the Linksys WRT310N
 Wireless-N Gigabit Router. I've been installing them all year and so
 far no problems. BTW: The cheaper WRT54G series suck.

 -RickG

 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Charles Wyble [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 www.routerboard.com might have some useful items.


 Travis Johnson wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm looking for a recommendation on an Ethernet router (two ports or
 more) that is somewhere in between a $50 Linksys and a $500 Cisco
ASA.
 Something that will do some basic QoS would be nice. Any suggestions?

 thanks,

 Travis
 Microserv





 
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 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
 CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project






 
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Re: [WISPA] routers

2008-09-26 Thread Matt Jenkins
I wish there was an outdoor version that used 5.7 for inter-AP 
communication...

3-dB Networks wrote:
 We just became a reseller for the ZoneFlex gear... it really impresses me
 too!
 
 Daniel White
 3-dB Networks
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Matt Jenkins
 Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:00 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] routers
 
 I have some media flex units here. They work REALLY well!!! If you have 
 a house that a normal wireless router has trouble covering, this unit 
 seems to do a much better job.
 
 RickG wrote:
 Ruckus media flex are over $100.

 On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 Whats not under $100?

 On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 1:34 PM, RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Nice try but I said under $100 :)

 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 11:51 PM, CHUCK  PROFITO
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ruckus media flex

 Chuck Profito
 209-988-7388
 CV-ACCESS, INC
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Providing High Speed Broadband
 to Rural Central California
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of RickG
 Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:54 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] routers

 Consumer routers are going to be the death of me. I've tried almost
 all of them. Every year the off the shelf retailers take turn
 providing the better unit, or worst unit depending on how you look at
 it. As Travis said, consumers are not techies and can only handle a
 browser configurable router that doesnt cost over $100. To that end,
 you would think there would be a good unit that can do the simple job
 asked of it. So far, the winner this year is the Linksys WRT310N
 Wireless-N Gigabit Router. I've been installing them all year and so
 far no problems. BTW: The cheaper WRT54G series suck.

 -RickG

 On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Charles Wyble [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 www.routerboard.com might have some useful items.


 Travis Johnson wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm looking for a recommendation on an Ethernet router (two ports or
 more) that is somewhere in between a $50 Linksys and a $500 Cisco
 ASA.
 Something that will do some basic QoS would be nice. Any suggestions?

 thanks,

 Travis
 Microserv



 
 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/

 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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 --
 Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059
 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
 CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project




 
 
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[WISPA] WISP Training

2008-09-26 Thread Pat O'Connor
I am new to the WISP arena.  My background is in SAN  NAS deployments.  
I was wondering if anyone knew of any training classes coming up soon on 
the West Coast.


Thanks,

Pat



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Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas

2008-09-26 Thread Drew Lentz
A product I really like for dual-pole is the Mars  WA56-DP25N. It's a  
pretty inexpensive panel from 4.9 - 5.875 @ 25dBi .. There are 2  
versions, 1 is the antenna alone, the other is with an enclosure. Its ~ 
$260.  I know its not $150, but its not too bad!

-d


On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Mike Brownson wrote:

 A broadband dual pol dish will work from 5.2 to 5.9Ghz.  You'll get  
 the same gain on both polarities.  But there's noting I know of less  
 than $150.  Usually dual pol dishes are used where you may need a  
 higher quality antenna, so all the manufacturers I know of  
 (RadioWaves, Maxrad, Pac Wireless) for dual pol are the higher grade  
 varieties.

 Mike

 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Blair Davis
 Sent: Thu 9/25/2008 8:41 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas


 All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curious

 I'm looking for a dual pol antenna...

 What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V- 
 Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain.  A narrow beam width is a  
 plus.

 A grid or a dish will be fine.  I'd like to keep the price down as  
 if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective.  I can  
 mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to.

 This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of  
 about 50ft of LMR-400.

 Thanks for any ideas

 Blair


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Re: [WISPA] WISP Training

2008-09-26 Thread Butch Evans
On Fri, 26 Sep 2008, Pat O'Connor wrote:

I am new to the WISP arena.  My background is in SAN  NAS 
deployments. I was wondering if anyone knew of any training classes 
coming up soon on the West Coast.

What type of training are you looking for?  Jack has already 
mentioned his commercial training.  He is very well know for his RF 
training.  There are many other training opportunities out there as 
well...just need to know what you are looking for.

-- 

*Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation *
*Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS *
*573-276-2879   *ImageStream   *
*http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE   *
*http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks*
*Mikrotik Certified Consultant  *Professional Technical Trainer*




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Re: [WISPA] WISP Training

2008-09-26 Thread Jack Unger
Pat,

Please phone me (I'm on the West Coast) on Monday or at your earliest 
convenience and I can give you some training class information.

jack


Pat O'Connor wrote:
 I am new to the WISP arena.  My background is in SAN  NAS deployments.  
 I was wondering if anyone knew of any training classes coming up soon on 
 the West Coast.


 Thanks,

 Pat


 
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-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
NEXT ONLINE TRAINING OCTOBER 8th  9th  http://www.linktechs.net/askwi.asp
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Phone 818-227-4220  Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]






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[WISPA] Looking for webcam/security software

2008-09-26 Thread reader
I'm looking for software that records video and audio from a windows 
computer (client uses a cam attached to a computer) whenever motion is 
detected, and uploads it to a remote server.

This is, of course, part of an investigation or evidence collection (not 
sure which) dealing with divorce/children/domestic violence.

Thus, the need for the software to automatically upload to a remote location 
to prevent its being found and deleted by the party under investigation.

If you know of something, I need some help ASAP with this.

Much appreciated.





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