Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO?

2009-03-30 Thread Phil Curnutt
Separate the runs from each other by at least 12 inchs and if they cross
make it at a 90 degree angle.  That is standard NSC spec for isolating
secure lines from crosstalk, but works for any kind of spurious radiation.
Shielded cable will work as well but this will be a quick fix.

Phil

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Marlon K. Schafer 
o...@odessaoffice.comwrote:

 I've seen this happen too.  It's funny, if we plug the computer right into
 the radio it goes away.  Use a router and it's back.

 We're just going to replace the cat 5 with shielded cable and see what
 happens.
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: e...@wisp-router.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:24 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO?


  Yes that would be ethernet. Gets some cable ferrules and put on the
  ethernet right next to the radio another right at the exit from the poe
  and another right as cat5 cable goes into poe and finally one right where
  the cat5 cable goes into switch and computer.
 
  Might also consider using heavy outdoor rated shielded cat5 cabling
  between poe and unit.
 
  /Eje
  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com
 
  Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 23:56:12
  To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org
  Subject: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO?
 
 
  Has anyone else here ever been co-located on a tower with a HAM radio
  (144-148mhz) VHF repeater or perhaps even a commercial system in the
  150mhz
  band and gotten complaints that your Ethernet cable is causing them
  interference on their repeater? We are trying to locate the source of
  noise
  on an amateur radio repeater system locally and last time I went up on
  grain
  leg there was a whole lot of Ethernet cabling strung everywhere and I've
  read some links such as these. http://www.hamuniverse.com/linksys.html
  that
  apparently some brands of equipment give out much more spurious emissions
  than others.
 
 
 
  Also how did you work with the radio people to solve it? Seems to only be
  apparent in the VHF band.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Kurt Fankhauser
  WAVELINC
  P.O. Box 126
  Bucyrus, OH 44820
  419-562-6405
  www.wavelinc.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO?

2009-03-30 Thread jp
This happens right in my house. Since installing lots of extra ethernet 
wiring, my ability to scan in the 2m and 150mhz areas has definitely 
been hindered by all the off noisy channels. It happened because I 
haven't bothered to use shielded cat5 at home.

At tower sites, we use shielded only. We have many situations where we 
are colocated with VHF and HAM gear and have no problems because we use 
shielded cables and metal equipment enclosures. We have one site with 
probably 25 ethernet devices adjacent to a VHF AIS receiver that is 
picking things up distant ships at sensitivities of -115dbm or so.


On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:56:12PM -0400, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
 Has anyone else here ever been co-located on a tower with a HAM radio
 (144-148mhz) VHF repeater or perhaps even a commercial system in the 150mhz
 band and gotten complaints that your Ethernet cable is causing them
 interference on their repeater? We are trying to locate the source of noise
 on an amateur radio repeater system locally and last time I went up on grain
 leg there was a whole lot of Ethernet cabling strung everywhere and I've
 read some links such as these. http://www.hamuniverse.com/linksys.html that
 apparently some brands of equipment give out much more spurious emissions
 than others.
 
  
 
 Also how did you work with the radio people to solve it? Seems to only be
 apparent in the VHF band.
 
 
 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com

-- 
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KB1IOJ|   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting 
 http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
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[WISPA] Malicious damage

2009-03-30 Thread NGL
Is malicious damage to a tower a federal offense if I have government 
agencies using my service to send and receive email and data?
Thanx
NGL 




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Re: [WISPA] Malicious damage

2009-03-30 Thread Brian Webster
I believe it would be an offense to do so to a site with an FCC licensed
public safety transmitter. If you are only using unlicensed gear and they
use your unlicensed network I believe that is not the case. Now I'm not a
lawyer, so to get a proper answer to this you should consult one :-)



Thank You,
Brian Webster

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
Behalf Of NGL
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:21 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Malicious damage


Is malicious damage to a tower a federal offense if I have government
agencies using my service to send and receive email and data?
Thanx
NGL





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Re: [WISPA] Malicious damage

2009-03-30 Thread NGL
I am talking about physical damage i.e.: stolen components, broken solar 
panels etc. Not use of the system.
Thanx
NGL

--
From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:10 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Malicious damage

 I believe it would be an offense to do so to a site with an FCC licensed
 public safety transmitter. If you are only using unlicensed gear and they
 use your unlicensed network I believe that is not the case. Now I'm not a
 lawyer, so to get a proper answer to this you should consult one :-)



 Thank You,
 Brian Webster

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
 Behalf Of NGL
 Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:21 AM
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Malicious damage


 Is malicious damage to a tower a federal offense if I have government
 agencies using my service to send and receive email and data?
 Thanx
 NGL



 
 
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Re: [WISPA] 24ghz links

2009-03-30 Thread Randy Cosby
Thanks everyone for the great input on 24Ghz.

Randy


Tom DeReggi wrote:
 Because there is no reason to buy a license for a link that is getting 
 deployed to a customer pre-existing site for 6 months, until they move to 
 their new office location.
 Because I was able to install the order within 24hours of the day the order 
 was placed from inventory, and gained an extra month of revenue ($2000) from 
 the customer that I wouldn't have had if I waited for a Freq Cord, and the 
 manufacturer's 20-30 day lead time to get me gear.

 However, with that said From my experience, CTI's lead time on Freq 
 Coords had been amazingly fast, and CTI sure did make it easy buying 23Ghz. 
 I think most people will choose 23Ghz, most of the time, when there is time 
 to do it, without financial trade off. Most broadband customers will sign an 
 order, prior to the min 1 month cancellation notice they need to give their 
 old broadband provider, where revenue for the new provider won't come in 
 until 30 days out any ways, so there is usually time to plan.

 It all depends on the situation.

 But in this case... 24Ghz UL put $4000 extra dollars in my pocket.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - 
 From: Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 8:41 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24ghz links


   
 It's my understanding that 24 GHz is priced pretty close to 23 GHz 
 (~$10-15k / link depending on antennas / configuration / etc) -- so unless 
 you're in the Canada, I don't see why anyone wouldn't just pay the extra 
 $2k to get a FCC license

 -Charles

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of Scott Carullo
 Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 6:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24ghz links

 Whats the price for this link?

 Scott Carullo
 Brevard Wireless
 321-205-1100 x102

  Original Message 
 
 From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net
 Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 12:43 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24ghz links

 I am now. I learned that yesterday, after reading manual, and some list
 discussion on members list.
 Yes, the problem was I had the radios set to same polarity, and with
   
 24Ghz
 
 one side needs to be vert and the other horizonal, because they send and
   
 receive on different pols.

 Thanks.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - 
 From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 6:32 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24ghz links


   
 Are you cross polarizing?


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 
 On
 
 Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
 Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 5:32 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24ghz links

 Randy,

 24Ghz is sometimes thought of as interference free, based on its
 approximate
 1.5 degree beamwidth at 2ft, and about 2.6 degree beamwidth at 1ft
 
 dish.
 
 The dragonwave works on 40mhz channels and allows setting to one of
 
 two
 
 channels sets (A 24078500 tx and 24173829 rx, or B 124126170 tx
 
 24221500
 
 rx) And then you have polarity diversity.
 The antennas have about a -68 F/B ratio, so getting channel reuse at a
 tower is pretty doable.
 Currently there is not alot of noise out there, because there weren't
 
 a
 
 lot of products out there, and most people that were willing to spend
 the money for high end gear, were willing to buy 23Ghz licenses.
 But it doesn't mean its going to stay that way. For us it has worked
 pretty well.

 I will say... I've had a hard time getting one of my 24Ghz links
 Dragonwave links to reach target RSSI, I'm about 15db off. I think its
 
 a
 
 problem with one of the antennas, but I haven't figured it out yet.
 With 1-5db low power, its less forgiving on the link budget, if
 something is wrong to hurt the link budget. Rain fade is high.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 4:08 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] 24ghz links


 
 I'm considering a 24ghz link for a 3 mile shot.  The path calcs all
   
 work
 
 fine for our use, climate, etc.

 I'm interested in hearing first from anyone who has used 24 gigahertz
 radios (dragonwave most likely).  Have you had any interference
   
 issues?
 
 Any recommendations on what to check for besides the clear LOS before
 putting something like this 

Re: [WISPA] Malicious damage

2009-03-30 Thread Brian Webster
What I am saying is that until there is an FCC licensed user on the site
there is no federal jurisdiction.



Thank You,
Brian Webster

-Original Message-
From: NGL [mailto:n...@ngl.net]
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 12:19 PM
To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Malicious damage


I am talking about physical damage i.e.: stolen components, broken solar
panels etc. Not use of the system.
Thanx
NGL

--
From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:10 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Malicious damage

 I believe it would be an offense to do so to a site with an FCC licensed
 public safety transmitter. If you are only using unlicensed gear and they
 use your unlicensed network I believe that is not the case. Now I'm not a
 lawyer, so to get a proper answer to this you should consult one :-)



 Thank You,
 Brian Webster

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
 Behalf Of NGL
 Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:21 AM
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Malicious damage


 Is malicious damage to a tower a federal offense if I have government
 agencies using my service to send and receive email and data?
 Thanx
 NGL



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Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO?

2009-03-30 Thread Gary Garrett
I went through this issue with a ham repeater at a mountain top tower. 
The repeater would key up and never let go as it saw some signal it 
thought was a user. I was in a metal cargo container and the repeater 
was in a frame building 20 feet away.
I could turn off the ethernet switch and the interference would go away.
I could leave the switch powered up and remove all the cat 5 cables to 
it and the interference would go away.
It appears the ethernet switch was mixing several RF sources and 
emitting a sum or difference of the two (or more).
I tried Ferrite rings on all cat 5 cables, shielded cable etc. Nothing 
really worked that well.
Finally I moved 100' away to a different building on a different tower 
and no one is complaining now. Spacial separation seems to have fixed it.

Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
 Has anyone else here ever been co-located on a tower with a HAM radio
 (144-148mhz) VHF repeater or perhaps even a commercial system in the 150mhz
 band and gotten complaints that your Ethernet cable is causing them
 interference on their repeater? We are trying to locate the source of noise
 on an amateur radio repeater system locally and last time I went up on grain
 leg there was a whole lot of Ethernet cabling strung everywhere and I've
 read some links such as these. http://www.hamuniverse.com/linksys.html that
 apparently some brands of equipment give out much more spurious emissions
 than others.
 
  
 
 Also how did you work with the radio people to solve it? Seems to only be
 apparent in the VHF band.
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
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 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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[WISPA] Kinda OT: Network Inventory Tracking.

2009-03-30 Thread Matt Jenkins
I am getting to the point where I need a central system that lets me 
track the network and records changes. For example something to put in 
Sites and what Equipment is at each site, then if I move a device from 
one site to another it logs that. If I make a change to a device it logs 
what that change was, etc.

Any recommendations?

- Matt



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Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO?

2009-03-30 Thread eje
Most ethernet ports are keyed by a 25MHz crystal. What you and others describe 
is harmonics interference from this crystal. Which is common unfortunately 
especially on poe based equipment. Sometimes in bad cases you have to as well 
put ferruls on the power cable to the switch/poe injector as well as multiple 
ferruls at each end of every cat5 cable used. 

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: Gary Garrett ggarr...@nidaho.net

Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:09:06 
To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO?


I went through this issue with a ham repeater at a mountain top tower. 
The repeater would key up and never let go as it saw some signal it 
thought was a user. I was in a metal cargo container and the repeater 
was in a frame building 20 feet away.
I could turn off the ethernet switch and the interference would go away.
I could leave the switch powered up and remove all the cat 5 cables to 
it and the interference would go away.
It appears the ethernet switch was mixing several RF sources and 
emitting a sum or difference of the two (or more).
I tried Ferrite rings on all cat 5 cables, shielded cable etc. Nothing 
really worked that well.
Finally I moved 100' away to a different building on a different tower 
and no one is complaining now. Spacial separation seems to have fixed it.

Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
 Has anyone else here ever been co-located on a tower with a HAM radio
 (144-148mhz) VHF repeater or perhaps even a commercial system in the 150mhz
 band and gotten complaints that your Ethernet cable is causing them
 interference on their repeater? We are trying to locate the source of noise
 on an amateur radio repeater system locally and last time I went up on grain
 leg there was a whole lot of Ethernet cabling strung everywhere and I've
 read some links such as these. http://www.hamuniverse.com/linksys.html that
 apparently some brands of equipment give out much more spurious emissions
 than others.
 
  
 
 Also how did you work with the radio people to solve it? Seems to only be
 apparent in the VHF band.
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
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[WISPA] Prairie i-net

2009-03-30 Thread Mike Prachar
Does anybody have a personal contact at Prairie in Iowa? I have a
semi-urgent need...


Michael Prachar - COO
Voice: (1) 402-392-7502 PST (GMT -8 Hrs.)
Fax: (1) 402-392-7585 (Anytime)
mi...@rapidlink.com



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Re: [WISPA] Prairie i-net

2009-03-30 Thread Rick Harnish
Michael,

The President's name is Craig Hiemstra, although I have never met him.  

Respectfully,
Rick Harnish

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Prachar
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:45 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Prairie i-net
Importance: High

Does anybody have a personal contact at Prairie in Iowa? I have a
semi-urgent need...


Michael Prachar - COO
Voice: (1) 402-392-7502 PST (GMT -8 Hrs.)
Fax: (1) 402-392-7585 (Anytime)
mi...@rapidlink.com




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