[WISPA] unsubscribe
unsubscribe Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell 419-668-4077 Fax mailto:mi...@wirelessconnections.net mi...@wirelessconnections.net http://www.wirelessconnections.net/ www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Wimax
It is true that a 802.11 based 3.650 product is not going to be any better than 2.4. A wimax based 3.650 product is going to gve field performance much like 2.4. A diversity based 3.650 system is going to provide coverage much like, and oftentimes exceeding that of 900Mhz. These observations are based on real field deployments in diverse terrain across the US. Mike Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell 419-668-4077 Fax mi...@wirelessconnections.net www.wirelessconnections.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Wimax Hi, We have two small 3.65 repeaters (serving only other small WiPOPs). The 3.65 does work, but our experience was that it did not do any better in NLOS than 2.4ghz would already do (when comparing the same type of radio systems). There are several other radio features and tricks that the higher-end WiMax companies are doing to get better NLOS, but it is still not comparable to 900mhz. In our area, there is a provider using 2.5ghz licensed WiMax and they still have NLOS issues where our 900mhz Trango system will work just fine. YMMV. Travis Microserv Jeremie Chism wrote: Several months ago I paid the small fee for the 365 license but have not used it. We are looking to deploy something that has a little less interference since there is quite a bit of 900mhz and 5.8ghz equipment deployed where we are. Has anyone tested any of this equipment and how has it worked. Also does it possess any NLOS capabilities (I know all the manufacturers claim they do). Thanks Jeremie Chism Triton Communications WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] 3.650 and the FCC
Hi Folks, Help me understand what the FCC is doing.. They are approving low end 3.650 gear, PTP gear etc. A lot of this gear is the spit and bailing wire type systems that are not spectrally efficient, don't support GPS, and certainly don't coordinate or play nice with other systems. I am afraid we are about to see one the best spectrum allocations in recent times turn into a garbage band. I am sure the FCC desires that everyone use this spectrum to its fullest extent, but the recent certifications spell doom for the band altogether. I have coordinated multiple systems in the same airspace for a number of our customers. With GPS this is a simple matter of planning. Without GPS it is flat impossible with only 25Mhz to work with. Am I missing something? Mike Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell 419-668-4077 Fax mailto:mi...@wirelessconnections.net mi...@wirelessconnections.net http://www.wirelessconnections.net/ www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Aperto Wimax Promotion
Welcome aboard Patrick. We are pleased to be working with you. In support of your promotion we will be providing personalized Aperto training via our Webinar process for those that take you up on the promotion. The training is open ended, but normally takes 6 hours. This should prepare the operator for the install portion and the operator will have maximum opportunity to learn advanced features from the Aperto engineer while he is on site. We also will provide 10 meter propagation models in support of a successful deployment. Those of you located in Canada and the Caribbean may not be able to utilize 10 meter data, as those areas in some cases only go to 30 meter. Mike Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell 419-668-4077 Fax mi...@wirelessconnections.net www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Connect Ohio Program? anyone heard of this
This is the ConnectKentucky group expanding their reach to Ohio, then the rest of the nation. It is a cleverly crafted organization finely tuned to remove money from government projects and place same in their own. I believe they were recently tossed out of the good graces with the KY governor. Review some of the maps they have created and charged the states very good $$ for. Very inaccurate and not representative. Ohio just pledged $ 10MM to this I believe. In KY they spent a boatload of money, and STIFLED broadband expansion in 3 counties and did nothing in the others. After detailed review of KY they decided that the 3 counties that had BB needed more. They got state funding, did a bid and awarded it to a non-wireless company. That company took 1 year to get the 1st site up and it worked poorly. All the while, the local WISPS said they were not going to expand in their market areas because they felt they could not compete with a state funded competitor. Today, the new network is not built out, the local WISPS are not interested any longer and not growing. So in KY a boatload of money spent, all kids were left behind, and private sector growth has been stifled. Now Connected Nation wants to take this model to the rest of the US. Doesn't sound like a good proposal to me. Mike Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field
I believe we were at 37dbm EIRP at both ends of the link. I agree that we can't change physics and I expected the same letdown that we all had when OFDM hit the scenes for 5.8ghz. All the tests I mentioned were using Alvarions base station with 2nd order diversity. 2nd order nets a 3db increase in transmit power and 12 db increase in uplink. 4th order is a 6db and 19 db increase on rx! Add subchannelization on top of this and I begin to see where the manufacturers R D money went. We are trying to better characterize how 3.650 propogates with no diversity, 2nd order, and 4th order as well as comparing same to 900Mhz. To that end we have installed 3.650 and 900 on the same tower, same AGL at 37 and 36 EIRP. Initial results within 1/2 mile show that 900 bests 3.650 from a signal strength perspective, but 3.650 normally has better thruput. However there is a section northeast of the tower that is a forest very close to the tower and behind that forest 3.650 coverage is spotty and 900 is fair. 3.650 apparently does not like its nearfield impacted. Out at the 2 mile range is where this begins to get interesting. 3.650 bests 900 on an RSSI measurement at all points tested. Of course 3.650 bested on performance at those locations as well. Scottie had asked about hilly terrain and I want to test in that environment. My gut tells me no go through a hill but I have seen so many good links at locations non wimax gear couldn't go that I am not ready to follow my gut and say no way to hills. We are going to put Wimax into a large coal mine application which is no tress and BIG holes in the ground. Propogation analysis shows we will need 5 base stations to cover the target area. I am betting that 2 or 3 bases will actually do the job once we begin the field testing. We also just completed field measurements of a 3.650 install. In this project we created a 2 meter High resolution Propogation study to predict coverage. Once these studies are tuned with real world field measurements we expect to see a predicted vs actual RSSI variance of less than 3db. We will also then begin to understand what real world attenuation values an oak vs a maple tree represent. These 1 or 2 meter studies are flat awesome. Through our in house process we generate trees and buildings as clutter + anything else of value to the prediction. Now the application knows about every tree, even the one in the curblawn. We are doing a high res extraction for our test site and will do an analysis at 900, and 3.650 using each variant of diversity. This data will be correlated and tuned for actual field results. I will make that data available once it is complete and that will tell a black and white story of what one can expect from the tested configurations. I am seeing that Wimax is a little harder to predict coverage as accurately as a traditional radio. What we are seeing is the prop model shows no coverage, field experience tells us that the model is correct. Field testing shows that we have Wimax coverage where we believe we should not. We may need to move to a 3D Ray Tracing model to more accurately predict Wimax, but this increases our processing time by a factor of 3 :-(. Luckily we have the best software available and it allows us considerable flexibility, not for the faint of heart though, I think at last tally we have over 500K invested :-(. Mike At 03:33 AM 7/22/2008, you wrote: insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Mike Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:06 PM Subject: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field Customer 1- 8.4 mile NLOS location. blocked by heavy trees . 1.5MB download holding CPE in their hand on the ground! Decided to test 5.8 at this location and @ 50' AGL the CPE got a link. 5.8 mounted on the same tower, same height as 3.650. The 5.8 system could not pass data and could just barely maintain association. I'm aware of the attenuation of trees on 5 ghz. It's deadly serious :) But the question I have is... Exactly what EIRP at the acess point, and what at the client? Adjusting the MAC does not magically change the physics of how or why RF does or does not get attenuated by trees or dirt or buildings, or whatever. I realize you can improve signal propagation and decoding reliability with OFDM, but it does not violate the law of RF and attenuation. On hte other hand, if you build a good enough front end, you can use extraordinary sensitivity to hear and decode the RF signals at very low levels. So, that all being said, What was the EIRP at the AP and CPE end? Does anyone here have solid information on the attentuation of 3.65 ghz t hrough trees? A random guess would put it between 2.4 ghz and 5 ghz, but perahps wavelenth at that frequency is amenable to penetration of foliage - lower than I would expect
[WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field
With some of the Wimax discussions going on I thought I would throw my hat into the ring. 3.650 Wimax using 802.16d only products provides decent connectivity, at a higher cost than traditional unlicensed gear. Performance/coverage is on par, or better than 2.4 that most of are used to. Pay a little extra for product, gain access to cleaner spectrum and hopefully a rule set that helps keep it cleaner than our wild wild west unlicensed world. Now deploy 3.650 using 802.16e upgradeable products. The coverage difference when using diversity options goes up significantly. Now 3.650 begins to act and feel more like a 900Mhz product with NLOS coverage capability. Actually our customers, and our field tests are showing that it exceeds 900Mhz often by a large margin. Here are a couple recent field examples all 2nd order diversity: Customer 1- 8.4 mile NLOS location. blocked by heavy trees . 1.5MB download holding CPE in their hand on the ground! Decided to test 5.8 at this location and @ 50' AGL the CPE got a link. 5.8 mounted on the same tower, same height as 3.650. The 5.8 system could not pass data and could just barely maintain association. Customer 2- 12.4 miles away at the owners home. 1.0mb on the ground. This location could not be serviced by 2.4 or 5.8 at 40' above the ground previously. The owner is going to mount Wimax on the roof and I expect he will se 10-12MB at that height. Customer 2- 12.6 miles on the ground. Completely obstructed 6MB down 3MB up. Customer 3- This is one of the most telling. Canopy 900 operator. 3.650 2nd order diversity mounted 10' below Canopy. 100% coverage at 3.650 of a small city. It takes 2 tower locations with 900 here to serve the same area. They gave up field testing because it works everywhere. They the said lets try to break it. We drove to a part of town that is challenged with 900 coverage. They found a traditionally bad coverage spot and drove up to a big tree, took the CPE out of the vehicle and buried it in the tree. -101 signal. They then picked up their VOIP phone and called the NOC and did a can you hear me now? Toll quality voice call. Our internal testing is showing similar results. Using 4th order diversity is showing even better results than above. When you do the upgrade to 16e and add Wave II CPE, Katy bar the door. That coverage is nothing less than jaw dropping. 2.5 miles obstructed with a PC card! Same PC card 1 mile away entering a commercial building, no signal change. Not possible with a traditional system. In this case the wall measured a 25db loss, however STC and MRC diversity gains completely made up for the attenuation once the paths became uncorrelated. Bottom line is diversity is the place to be with Wimax. It is more expensive, so find a way to afford it. Push your vendor for price breaks and don't be bashful. Alvarion for example is willing to work to earn business as well as the others. CPE costs for D and E systems are the same today, E will be much cheaper in the near future. Not all Wimax is the same, so test a site or visit one, you will walk away amazed. My two cents, and we carry all D and E products. Each has its place. Mike Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field
Hi Scottie, No, all flat ground but Midwest trees. Your scenario would be an interesting test. Mike At 07:59 PM 7/21/2008, you wrote: Mike you have peaked my interest with the 900Mhz against the 3.65. Were any of these tests done with hills? My problem is we have hills, and lots of them and trees too. You can't drive much more than a mile without going up a hill with a change of 100 - 150 ft in elevation. Anyone tested or used 3.65 under these circumstances that care to chime in? Scottie Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.650 Wimax in the field
Many of you have known me for years, some wish they didn't :-). I am the doubting Thomas type and have to test myself before I recommend products to a client. Lets just say that Thomas was satisfied. Now the clients are echoing the same and that is what drives my wagon. Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike At 08:52 PM 7/21/2008, you wrote: Same here, I thought it was all marketing hype, if it works like the poster mentioned, we will need to consider moving up our timetable for evaluating wimax, 10k a basestation suddenly isn't that bad with the performance described. Regards Michael Baird Now this is a 180* of what others have told me, even others offering traditional, D, and E products. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] 3.650
Hi All, How many of you have deployed 3.650 in your networks? Mike Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Problems with Alvarion BreezeAccess VL and Breeznet B100
That's me! Thanks for the kind words John. I would 1st run a spectrum analysis to see what the radio thinks it hears. Channel select accordingly. In a high noise environment go the the advanced menu, air interface, noise immunity state control and set it to manual. Give that a shot. Mike At 03:23 AM 4/13/2008, John Scrivner wrote: I am copying a friend of mine at a company called Wireless Connections. His name is Mike Cowan. He is an RF engineer who specializes in Alvarion issues. He has helped me dramatically improve our VL and B-100 performance. Feel free to contact him for further assistance. There are many things you can do to make these system perform flawlessly in these bands. John Scrivner Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Test
Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Fwd: [WISPA Approved Ad] Introducing BreezeACCESS EZ - The WISP Business Just Got EZ
Here is a link for the spec sheet on the product: http://www.wirelessconnections.net/images/BreezeACCESS_EZ_Product_Announcement.pdf Mike Subject: [WISPA Approved Ad] Introducing BreezeACCESS EZ - The WISP Business Just Got EZ X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-RCPT-TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-IMail-ThreadID: 154d0372ab31 Alvarion, Inc. is proud to launch BreezeACCESS EZ, an entirely new WISP line operating in the 5 GHz bands. EZ is designed from the ground up to provide small and rural WISPs what they need and want at a remarkably affordable price . no more than $255 per complete SU even in single quantities. What's makes EZ so special, besides the price? ** provides a universal multi-band subscriber unit (SU) to connect to any 5 GHz band EZ access unit (AU) so your installers carry only one part. You set the country code and you tell the EZ SU which bands and frequencies to scan. ** EZ uses OFDM technology to enable near and non-NLOS connections to maximize subscriber access in your cell. ** The SU comes complete with an integrated 17 dBi antenna and comprehensive RSSI LEDs in a unit that measures only about 8 inches corner to corner. PoE and mounting kit are included with every SU. ** EZ is RoHS compliant, certified to IP67 environmental specifications and is manufactured using ISO certified processes to provide you with the quality you expect from Alvarion. ** The rugged EZ AUs come in 5.3, 5.4 and 5.8 GHz versions and have extremely low wind loading. ** AUs use an external N connector and come complete with your choice of omni, 120, 90 or 60 degree sector. ** EZ features dual flash memory for safe and sure configuration and software downloads. ** EZ, when operating in 5.4 GHz, implements Alvarion's advanced intelligent DFS2. Alvarion is releasing EZ after testing by a number of your peers who do not run Alvarion-based WISPs. They loved the simplicity, ruggedness and performance and urged Alvarion to release EZ to the market right away. Try it and we think you'll agree that deploying excellent performance, revolutionary simplicity combined with Alvarion quality has never been so EZ. Find out complete details and order information about EZ from the following Alvarion-authorized EZ distributors: Wireless Guys [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 805.578.8590 Wireless Connections[EMAIL PROTECTED] or 419.660.6100 Winncom Technologies[EMAIL PROTECTED] or 440.498.9510 PCS Technologies[EMAIL PROTECTED] or 800.659.2170 Sincerely, Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fwd: [WISPA Approved Ad] Introducing BreezeACCESS EZ - The WISP Business Just Got EZ
It is standard CAT5 outdoor rated. Quality stuff but guiys use their own all the time. The indoor unit is POE and smart enough to have signal strength, ethernet link, and wirleless link lights. Mike At 03:35 PM 3/3/2008, you wrote: Interesting. Is the cable between the IDU and ODU just standard cat5 outdoor, or is there something special about their CBL/BB wire? Is the indoor unit just a poe adapter, or is there more intelligence in it? Randy Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion B28?
Hi Cameron, Give me a call tomorrow at the office and we'll diag this together. Mike At 10:03 AM 2/25/2008, you wrote: Hello All, I have a couple dozen of B14 and/or B28 units currently in service. We deployed a new 5.8 B28 set for a 24 Mile link. When installed it was great. Strong signal around 29+ SNR on either end. We are using 29dbi (2 foot) dish Pac Wireless on either end with ATPC turned on. Recently, we have had problem with the link randomly going up/down. Odd, we have checked everything multiple times, we have replaced indoor/outdoor units on either end trying to rule them out, same result. Replaced Feedhorns/Cable same results. Sometimes the link runs for 6 days without a hitch and other barely makes it 2 hours (very random). At this point, we think it is somewhere in configuration, but from what I can tell, they are basically a mirror to the 2 dozen other units we are using. We have ruled out interference at either site with many spec scans. Does anybody have any thoughts on why this may be happening? Thank You, Cameron Kilton Broadband Department Assistant Systems Administrator Midcoast Internet Solutions http://www.midcoast.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (207)594-8277 ext. 108 Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3.65 needs more lobbying (was Re: One Ring Networks To Rollout New WiMAX Service)
Not sure why but the FCC dinged Redline 10DB of tx power due average vs peak power calculations. Mike At 12:26 PM 1/12/2008, you wrote: IIRC, 3.65 ghz rules allow 1 watt EIRP per each mhz of bandwidth, thus a 7.5 Mhz Radio would be allowed 7.5 Watts of EIRP, 10 Mhz radio would be 10 Watts EIRP ... Redline cert does not reflect this... don't know why Airspan certification does get really close to it Mind me but 10 Watts EIRP if allot (about 40 db) Vendors should seek maybe 15 or 20 mhz channels Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results
Hi Cameron, You should be able to see 35MB from a VL-AU running version 4.x frimware. 32MB if running 3.x. It is not shaped by direction at the factory, you set up/down limits in the SU, or set it to wide open and then you shpould be able to utilize full rate up or download. The B100s are seeing actual 70-75MB (TCP/UDP) and are also not limited to direction and speed. And the unit is good for 80K packets per second. Mike At 11:11 PM 12/9/2007, you wrote: Hello all, I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are currently using Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to Alvarion, this link is only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please call it a 32mbit radio.) We have looked into results on users who use Alvarion B100, Trango Link 45, etc.. We are open to all options...As long is it works very well. The link is about 3 miles, but we have another link that is causing the need for the upgrade that is about 20 miles. Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line that is very impressive, but just too expensive for us right now. I would like to know if people are using B100 what is the up/down max throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you running VoIP over this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over this link, i'm sure many of you have not even dented this number. I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have been well, but their packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B gear at almost 40,000 compared to trango at around 10,000. Thanks, I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance and no spectrum to put it -Cameron Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 419-706-7348 Cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Alvarion VL TRUTH
900 VL is coming It will be an outstanding product. I already placed a huge inventory order. Mike At 08:06 PM 11/10/2007, you wrote: We have some VL in the air, real noisy area. We had to run 10Mhz channels on H-POL, so we see 11-12Mbps net TCP throughput. We run VOIP on it also, Works very well. I think we paid somewhere around 4000 per AU, and 399 per SU-A-5.8-6-BD-VL hardware Rev E. I honestly like it better than Canopy. We just install it and forget it. This stuff just plain works. Now if only they would make VL in 2.4Ghz and 900Mhz. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Quote
Good to hear you are going to use ALV! John will get a quote over to you. Mike At 10:23 AM 10/9/2007, you wrote: I finally have my contracts all hammered out. I'm ready to buy 2 Alvarion VL radios. Looking for 5.8 gig. Standard license (25 subs, 6 meg speed). I'll probably need some config help as this is my first set of these. I'm also going to want 5 6 meg cpe. (looking for comnet pricing on these) I'm ready to send out a check so please send me your OFF LIST quotes. thanks, marlon Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cisco Wireless Bridges
Cough, cough cough... At 01:48 PM 10/4/2007, you wrote: Is anyone using the Cisco 1300 or 1400 series AP/Bridges? I know they are a bit pricing, but was curious how they performed in a noisy environment? Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived
Wow Brad, With as long as you have been at this and the knowledge level you have I am surprised you could be so far off the mark on this one. VL does automodulate and has better RF characteristics than their hoppers did. It won't backoff and die when presented with noise and will still transmit. It is THE business class product IMHO. Alvarion is making an effort to reach out to the WISP market by making this radio available at this reduced price. It is the exact same radio that normally costs more. They are trying to empower the WISP to use quality gear. To say the gears quality has gone down, hence a lower price is simply not true. Mike Cowan At 02:11 PM 12/22/2006, you wrote: Hello Marlon, VL won't be a good choice as a committed rate business grade product as it will modulate down in a noisy environment. Without any RX threshold mechanism the VL radio begins to slow and drop packets under heavy business class loads in unfriendly RF environments. Even the references given to me by Alvarion while overall have been happy with the product are not using VL for committed rate business class service. IMO, Alvarion is now pushing the VL product as a residential best effort solution...hence the dramatic drop in price. In Patrick's words: A $285 all inclusive CPE with nothing extra to buy, piece together, etc. should fall within the residential business model of even small WISPs. We've been there and almost lost a valuable client trying to use VL for a committed rate business class customer. The VL gear is a high quality product with a number of valuable features, but it is missing a few key items that keep it form performing well (or at all) as a committed rate business class solution. Only reason for my post was because of your intended use of the VL product. Best and Merry Christmas! Brad Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived
Hi Brad, The radio will auto modulate down from mod level 8 to 1 when faced with interference. They won't stop transmitting when interference is present however. They do work like any radio out there, two way radio, Ip radios, Trango radios all need a specific C/I ratio to run correctly. I don't know that I can properly engineer a Trango, Alvarion, or Redline link to cope with future unknown interference. Sure, big antennas, tight beams, and strong C/I ratios is the way to go but is it enough? Most of the time probably. So we engineer our links to be as resiliant as possible, but when somebody points that 4 foot dish down our throat I want a radio that will drop mod levels and cope with it, albeit at a reduced speed rather than one that only has 1 speed. I thought Trango added mod levels to their 5.8 product to help cope. Is that true or did it not get built? Merry Christmas! Mike At 03:26 PM 12/22/2006, you wrote: Wow back at ya there, Mike! grin Never said the product was less in quality in any form. Simply stating the gear doesn't perform well under load in unfriendly RF environments. Alvarion Techs themselves acknowledge the radios back off modulation speeds in the face of noise. Do you know something they don't? Please share, I'd love to begin re-deploying VL if I knew it wouldn't cower in the face of noise. Trango on the other hand has a RX threshold that will enable the radio to continue to perform at its published rates regardless of the RF environment if the link is engineered correctly. Best and Merry Christmas! Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Cowan Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 2:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived Wow Brad, With as long as you have been at this and the knowledge level you have I am surprised you could be so far off the mark on this one. VL does automodulate and has better RF characteristics than their hoppers did. It won't backoff and die when presented with noise and will still transmit. It is THE business class product IMHO. Alvarion is making an effort to reach out to the WISP market by making this radio available at this reduced price. It is the exact same radio that normally costs more. They are trying to empower the WISP to use quality gear. To say the gears quality has gone down, hence a lower price is simply not true. Mike Cowan At 02:11 PM 12/22/2006, you wrote: Hello Marlon, VL won't be a good choice as a committed rate business grade product as it will modulate down in a noisy environment. Without any RX threshold mechanism the VL radio begins to slow and drop packets under heavy business class loads in unfriendly RF environments. Even the references given to me by Alvarion while overall have been happy with the product are not using VL for committed rate business class service. IMO, Alvarion is now pushing the VL product as a residential best effort solution...hence the dramatic drop in price. In Patrick's words: A $285 all inclusive CPE with nothing extra to buy, piece together, etc. should fall within the residential business model of even small WISPs. We've been there and almost lost a valuable client trying to use VL for a committed rate business class customer. The VL gear is a high quality product with a number of valuable features, but it is missing a few key items that keep it form performing well (or at all) as a committed rate business class solution. Only reason for my post was because of your intended use of the VL product. Best and Merry Christmas! Brad Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sprint / Nextel to use 900mz for iDen
Filters fix this problem quite handily. We recommend one on every system needed or not. I don't see an issue here. Mike At 07:07 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote: ISM 902-928. Exact band and Power limit is relevant. Currently, the top 25% of ISM 900 bandwidth (channel 4) is unusable, in MANY areas, due to blead over from 930 Licensed high power gear (500W). If the same thing were to occur at the lower portion of 900 ISM bandwdith, it could kill Channel 1 also, horribly effecting WISPs using unlicenced. They also may be requesting to use higher power on the actual ISM bands, argueing Public Safety is more important than unlicensed use. Iftheir request is granted, specifics should be lsited on how they are going to prevent interference with existing unlicensed band users. Remember that the goal may not only be to use the spectrum. They have benefit in killing off all the 900Mhz WISPs, that could compete with Sprint/Nextel Next generation WiMax type Licensed 700M-900M solutions. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics...
Hi Brad, A lot of what Dave has said is good info and my reply is a bit redundant. The lights on the bottom of the radio should really only be used for a rough indication of signal level. This is true for most radio products that offer lights for RSL. Once you have achieved association via lights on the bottom it is best to Telnet as Dave suggested and then tune for highest SNR. The lights can help here, but only roughly. If you are looking at continuous link quality display that will give you the fine indications to help you aim and achieve the best connection possible. You may also see the effects of heavy multipath while watcing this in the form of bouncing SNR. This can also be seen in the lights as little light movement. OFDM does a much better job with multipath than a traditional radio, but it does not eliminate MP type problems. Best SNR is only part of the equation. The counters also need to be reviewed and I find the Breezeconfig site survey page the easiest to read. You need to look at retrans vs total as a percentage and also look at drops which are frames rxtx that never successfully made it. You also need to look at the per rate counters, particularly if the area is noisy. The radio will auto modulate from level 8 to level 1 based on noise. The automodulation scheme is pretty decent in the radio but I klike to hard set the max mod rate when noise is present. The radio will always try to mod at the highest level and sometime that level might be close to the SNR threshold and performance may be acceptable to the algorithm but not acceptable to you. If I see the radio counters showing many fails at mod8, fewer at mod 7, and clean at mod 6 I would lock the radio to 6. No sense in allowing it to try to do better than 6 if conditions mostly won't allow it. Channel size (10 or 20Mhz) is another tool available to help find open spectrum to run on. Hope this helps, Mike Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics...
The numbers for the AU look decent. The SU numbers are not as good. I might consider moving the SU to mod 5 and leave the AU at 6. 10Mhz channels gives you more flexability to work around noise and can help. The perfect world real thruput of an AU is 35MB on ver 4.0 firmware at 20Mhz, and 1/2 that at 10Mhz. It may be worthwhile to change channels and watch for resutls, ignoring the spectrum analyzer recommendations. You might get lucky that way especially when using 10mhz channels. Mike At 09:16 AM 10/11/2006, you wrote: Hello Mike, Certainly the SNR is better than LEDs, but not as important or useful as a RSSI reading. As others here have pointed out it is very possible the SNR could improve by misaligning the link. A misaligned link will only cause you more trouble down the road. I'm hoping Patrick follows through and pushes the Alvarion engineers to provide it. During one of the many calls into Alvarion Support we did look into the modulation counters and we settled on forcing the AU and SU to 6. The AU counters look like this: Modulation Level:| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | SUCCESS :| 1 1 1 1 1 2760796 0 0 | FAILED :| 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 | The SU looks like this: Modulation Level:| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | SUCCESS :|25 1 1 110 3604 2139679 0 0 | FAILED :| 0 0 0 72785 0 0 | Average Modulation Level: 6 The SU counters were reset last night and as such do not reflect usage during business hours. I'm sure the interference increases during the day as neighboring radios at the AU side become more active. Are these acceptable results? Alvarion never suggested trying a 10MHz channel and at this point we are willing to try anything before we are forced to remove the VL gear all together. I appreciate your input. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Cowan Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 6:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are these good or bad Alvarion VL statistics... Hi Brad, A lot of what Dave has said is good info and my reply is a bit redundant. The lights on the bottom of the radio should really only be used for a rough indication of signal level. This is true for most radio products that offer lights for RSL. Once you have achieved association via lights on the bottom it is best to Telnet as Dave suggested and then tune for highest SNR. The lights can help here, but only roughly. If you are looking at continuous link quality display that will give you the fine indications to help you aim and achieve the best connection possible. You may also see the effects of heavy multipath while watcing this in the form of bouncing SNR. This can also be seen in the lights as little light movement. OFDM does a much better job with multipath than a traditional radio, but it does not eliminate MP type problems. Best SNR is only part of the equation. The counters also need to be reviewed and I find the Breezeconfig site survey page the easiest to read. You need to look at retrans vs total as a percentage and also look at drops which are frames rxtx that never successfully made it. You also need to look at the per rate counters, particularly if the area is noisy. The radio will auto modulate from level 8 to level 1 based on noise. The automodulation scheme is pretty decent in the radio but I klike to hard set the max mod rate when noise is present. The radio will always try to mod at the highest level and sometime that level might be close to the SNR threshold and performance may be acceptable to the algorithm but not acceptable to you. If I see the radio counters showing many fails at mod8, fewer at mod 7, and clean at mod 6 I would lock the radio to 6. No sense in allowing it to try to do better than 6 if conditions mostly won't allow it. Channel size (10 or 20Mhz) is another tool available to help find open spectrum to run on. Hope this helps, Mike Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Kudos to Scriv!
Hi all, I just have to say how much I enjoy working in the WISP marketplace. One of my customers had a power supply failure this weekend. No inexpensive way to get a replacement to them, and no, no spare on hand. I looked at our client map and saw Mount Vernon.net was close to them. One email to Scriv and he happily gave up one of his spares. The system was down for hours instead of days as the result. And now the rest of the story... The WISP that had the failure is a privately owned system like most. The owner/developer of the system got called to duty in Iraq. In fact he sent me an email early from Iraq to tell me of the problem. His wife has taken over and is running the show while he is serving. She is doing a bang up job too! Thanks Again Scriv! Mike Mike Cowan Wireless Connections A Division of ACC 166 Milan Ave Norwalk, OH 44857 419-660-6100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.wirelessconnections.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
