Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations
I'm told that properly set up, sectors should not see each other loud enough to hurt. Poppycock!! I can't post pics so here is some info from one of my towers. I shut down radio 3 so I could run a scan on an MT based ap. Radio 1 (sits on the same board as radio 3 but the antenna is 10 to 15 vertically separated) comes in at -46. Radio 2 is cross pol and 40 to 50' away comes in at -83. Radio 4 is cross pol and is 60ish feet away, -81. Oh yeah, all sectors are only 45*! Radios 1 and 3 are on the tower, radios 2 and 4 are on the building at the base of the tower. 2 is south west, 1 is south, 3 is south south east and 4 is east. There is nothing behind me. The highest radio output is 17dB as far as I recall. Here's the fun stuff, sigh. Travel lodge is at -74. The hotel is about 1.5 to 2 miles from the tower. Some day I'm gonna take the time to talk to them about their rotten internal system design! One called randys comes in at -78. There are no other structures (other than cell phone etc.) within less than 1 mile. Sectors are great, but they do have their drawbacks. marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations Your question was my next one! I'm told that properly set up, sectors should not see each other loud enough to hurt. I'm sure the quad-sector tower I mentioned earlier in this thread can see the other sectors. I cant tell because it has prism cards :( Guess which tower is going to get the first upgrade :) -RickG On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: That really depends Rick. The down side to an omni is that it picks up noise from all directions. In some places though, there isn't that much noise so it's no big deal. They are also low gain so they don't hear the noise as well. Here's a question for you. Which system will see more known noise, three omni antennas 10 miles apart, or three sectors on the same tower? marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations You taught me Marlon :) What I take home from you is: Stay away from omni antennas unless they are low gain. Sectors are better. Keep power low. No amps. etc, etc. Doesnt using an omni to go 15 miles invite a lot of interference? (Still learning) -RickG On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: roflol We routinely go 15 or more to an omni. And we don't use amps and rarely even go all the way up to 36 watts eirp. Overall system design is important. Not just big omnis and amps Maybe I need to get out there and do some consulting work again? sheesh Who's been teaching people for the last 2 or 3 years? marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations 10 is a dream... I know. But been thinking of going sector. Not many users there at the moment but replacing the antennas may be a good reason to upgrade the whole mess. Really only need a good 3 to 5 miles but further is always better for redundancy. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations I wouldnt use an omni to go 10 miles. Why not sector? -RickG On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Would like to get 10 miles out of it for overlap but can go less. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations How far do you need to go? -RickG On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I'm in need to replace some older Omni antennas, 2.4 and 5.8, to connect to a Mikrotik 600a. Running the R52H cards for both bands with a dish for the 5.8 backhaul.. I'm not in the mood to experiment with the unknown, any recommendations on what is working for you? And what doesn't! Land is flat, rural farmland, small scattering of trees. We're up 70 feet in this location. Thanks! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations
Do you have a calculator for signal levels? They are powerful tools. Lets say that we have an AP putting out 20dB into an 8dB omni. That's 28dB or roughly .6 watts. At the client end we'll use a 24dB grid with a 24dB radio output (max allowed under the 3 for 1 rule) for 48dB or 60 watts. That calculates out to an rssi of -75. Still in the sweet zone. With an AP output of only 17dB we'd still have an rssi at the remote end of -78, well within the capabilities of today's radios. Work it the other way and you'd have -71 coming back to the AP (the eirp on the cpe is higher than the AP can be). Wanna know what's really fun? Plug 20 miles into the calculator and we're still at -81 for the rssi at the customer end. That's with an 8dB omni and 17dB transmitter. NO amp! Still well within the capabilities of today's radios. Naturally, you'll need pretty clean air and radios that can be adjusted for range to make this work. But there it is That help? marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations What type of signal you getting on your systems at 15?The land here is pretty flat, not much variation, some trees, no pine at all. Your basic flat as a pancake farmland. What's your setup? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations roflol We routinely go 15 or more to an omni. And we don't use amps and rarely even go all the way up to 36 watts eirp. Overall system design is important. Not just big omnis and amps Maybe I need to get out there and do some consulting work again? sheesh Who's been teaching people for the last 2 or 3 years? marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations 10 is a dream... I know. But been thinking of going sector. Not many users there at the moment but replacing the antennas may be a good reason to upgrade the whole mess. Really only need a good 3 to 5 miles but further is always better for redundancy. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations I wouldnt use an omni to go 10 miles. Why not sector? -RickG On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Would like to get 10 miles out of it for overlap but can go less. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations How far do you need to go? -RickG On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I'm in need to replace some older Omni antennas, 2.4 and 5.8, to connect to a Mikrotik 600a. Running the R52H cards for both bands with a dish for the 5.8 backhaul.. I'm not in the mood to experiment with the unknown, any recommendations on what is working for you? And what doesn't! Land is flat, rural farmland, small scattering of trees. We're up 70 feet in this location. Thanks! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join
Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations
My calculator says, -75 at 15 miles from the AP with a 20db transmit, 8 db antenna, and 24 db on the RX side, leaves you with a fade margin of -0.686 in perfect world conditions, not taking into account earth curvature, fresnel zone incursions, weather, or tower height which will all add loss, the fade margin is only going to be worse. Let me know where I've gone wrong in my calculations, that tells me that connection isn't going to be stable or viable. http://www.wisp-router.com/wirelesscalculators.php#budget Regards Michael Baird Do you have a calculator for signal levels? They are powerful tools. Lets say that we have an AP putting out 20dB into an 8dB omni. That's 28dB or roughly .6 watts. At the client end we'll use a 24dB grid with a 24dB radio output (max allowed under the 3 for 1 rule) for 48dB or 60 watts. That calculates out to an rssi of -75. Still in the sweet zone. With an AP output of only 17dB we'd still have an rssi at the remote end of -78, well within the capabilities of today's radios. Work it the other way and you'd have -71 coming back to the AP (the eirp on the cpe is higher than the AP can be). Wanna know what's really fun? Plug 20 miles into the calculator and we're still at -81 for the rssi at the customer end. That's with an 8dB omni and 17dB transmitter. NO amp! Still well within the capabilities of today's radios. Naturally, you'll need pretty clean air and radios that can be adjusted for range to make this work. But there it is That help? marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations What type of signal you getting on your systems at 15?The land here is pretty flat, not much variation, some trees, no pine at all. Your basic flat as a pancake farmland. What's your setup? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations roflol We routinely go 15 or more to an omni. And we don't use amps and rarely even go all the way up to 36 watts eirp. Overall system design is important. Not just big omnis and amps Maybe I need to get out there and do some consulting work again? sheesh Who's been teaching people for the last 2 or 3 years? marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations 10 is a dream... I know. But been thinking of going sector. Not many users there at the moment but replacing the antennas may be a good reason to upgrade the whole mess. Really only need a good 3 to 5 miles but further is always better for redundancy. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations I wouldnt use an omni to go 10 miles. Why not sector? -RickG On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Would like to get 10 miles out of it for overlap but can go less. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations How far do you need to go? -RickG On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I'm in need to replace some older Omni antennas, 2.4 and 5.8, to connect to a Mikrotik 600a. Running the R52H cards for both bands with a dish for the 5.8 backhaul.. I'm not in the mood to experiment with the unknown, any recommendations on what is working for you? And what doesn't! Land is flat, rural farmland, small scattering of trees. We're up 70 feet in this location. Thanks! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations
That really depends Rick. The down side to an omni is that it picks up noise from all directions. In some places though, there isn't that much noise so it's no big deal. They are also low gain so they don't hear the noise as well. Here's a question for you. Which system will see more known noise, three omni antennas 10 miles apart, or three sectors on the same tower? marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations You taught me Marlon :) What I take home from you is: Stay away from omni antennas unless they are low gain. Sectors are better. Keep power low. No amps. etc, etc. Doesnt using an omni to go 15 miles invite a lot of interference? (Still learning) -RickG On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: roflol We routinely go 15 or more to an omni. And we don't use amps and rarely even go all the way up to 36 watts eirp. Overall system design is important. Not just big omnis and amps Maybe I need to get out there and do some consulting work again? sheesh Who's been teaching people for the last 2 or 3 years? marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations 10 is a dream... I know. But been thinking of going sector. Not many users there at the moment but replacing the antennas may be a good reason to upgrade the whole mess. Really only need a good 3 to 5 miles but further is always better for redundancy. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations I wouldnt use an omni to go 10 miles. Why not sector? -RickG On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Would like to get 10 miles out of it for overlap but can go less. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations How far do you need to go? -RickG On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I'm in need to replace some older Omni antennas, 2.4 and 5.8, to connect to a Mikrotik 600a. Running the R52H cards for both bands with a dish for the 5.8 backhaul.. I'm not in the mood to experiment with the unknown, any recommendations on what is working for you? And what doesn't! Land is flat, rural farmland, small scattering of trees. We're up 70 feet in this location. Thanks! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations
Fade margin is a factor of radio sensitivity. Not just a random number. We are generally forced to ignore fresnel zone issues, customers won't put up the 100' antennas it takes to do this perfectly I've been bitten by this a few times, but only a handful are verifiable over the last 10 or so years. OK, back to fade margin. Lets say that you have a radio with a -96 receive sensitivity. At -75 rssi that means that you have a 20dB fade margin. At a frequency that's basically immune to weather issues this leaves a lot of room to play. Newer radios normally have a sensitivity of -80+++ at 11 meg so you still have a usable fade margin. Would I build a system like this for $500 per month t-1 type services? Nope. But for $30 to $40 per month best effort consumer grade data services it's just fine. Also remember, tons of fade margin also equates to tons of noise These are not ptp links in isolated areas that have few other users. We ALL have to run on the lowest power levels possible in order to keep the environment clean. By far, my worst two sites to deal with are the ones that have the most competitors in the area. And the fewest transmit location options. We're all running systems that reach out to 10 to 15 miles. We have to. The biggest problem is that the other guys just can't seem to use grid antennas for cpe when the ranges get long. They run higher power at the ap so that they can still use little 19dB cpe antennas. Then we all end up with interference at the AP that gets catastrophic. Plus the customer density here requires many ap's. I have as many as 5 2.4 gig ptmp systems on one tower. I'm often my own worst enemy because the ap's see each other so well. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 7:09 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations My calculator says, -75 at 15 miles from the AP with a 20db transmit, 8 db antenna, and 24 db on the RX side, leaves you with a fade margin of -0.686 in perfect world conditions, not taking into account earth curvature, fresnel zone incursions, weather, or tower height which will all add loss, the fade margin is only going to be worse. Let me know where I've gone wrong in my calculations, that tells me that connection isn't going to be stable or viable. http://www.wisp-router.com/wirelesscalculators.php#budget Regards Michael Baird Do you have a calculator for signal levels? They are powerful tools. Lets say that we have an AP putting out 20dB into an 8dB omni. That's 28dB or roughly .6 watts. At the client end we'll use a 24dB grid with a 24dB radio output (max allowed under the 3 for 1 rule) for 48dB or 60 watts. That calculates out to an rssi of -75. Still in the sweet zone. With an AP output of only 17dB we'd still have an rssi at the remote end of -78, well within the capabilities of today's radios. Work it the other way and you'd have -71 coming back to the AP (the eirp on the cpe is higher than the AP can be). Wanna know what's really fun? Plug 20 miles into the calculator and we're still at -81 for the rssi at the customer end. That's with an 8dB omni and 17dB transmitter. NO amp! Still well within the capabilities of today's radios. Naturally, you'll need pretty clean air and radios that can be adjusted for range to make this work. But there it is That help? marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations What type of signal you getting on your systems at 15?The land here is pretty flat, not much variation, some trees, no pine at all. Your basic flat as a pancake farmland. What's your setup? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations roflol We routinely go 15 or more to an omni. And we don't use amps and rarely even go all the way up to 36 watts eirp. Overall system design is important. Not just big omnis and amps Maybe I need to get out there and do some consulting work again? sheesh Who's been teaching people for the last 2 or 3 years? marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations 10 is a dream... I know. But been thinking of going sector. Not many users there at the moment but replacing the antennas may be a good reason to upgrade the whole mess. Really only need a good 3 to 5 miles but further is always better for redundancy. -Original
Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations
Your question was my next one! I'm told that properly set up, sectors should not see each other loud enough to hurt. I'm sure the quad-sector tower I mentioned earlier in this thread can see the other sectors. I cant tell because it has prism cards :( Guess which tower is going to get the first upgrade :) -RickG On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: That really depends Rick. The down side to an omni is that it picks up noise from all directions. In some places though, there isn't that much noise so it's no big deal. They are also low gain so they don't hear the noise as well. Here's a question for you. Which system will see more known noise, three omni antennas 10 miles apart, or three sectors on the same tower? marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations You taught me Marlon :) What I take home from you is: Stay away from omni antennas unless they are low gain. Sectors are better. Keep power low. No amps. etc, etc. Doesnt using an omni to go 15 miles invite a lot of interference? (Still learning) -RickG On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: roflol We routinely go 15 or more to an omni. And we don't use amps and rarely even go all the way up to 36 watts eirp. Overall system design is important. Not just big omnis and amps Maybe I need to get out there and do some consulting work again? sheesh Who's been teaching people for the last 2 or 3 years? marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations 10 is a dream... I know. But been thinking of going sector. Not many users there at the moment but replacing the antennas may be a good reason to upgrade the whole mess. Really only need a good 3 to 5 miles but further is always better for redundancy. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations I wouldnt use an omni to go 10 miles. Why not sector? -RickG On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Would like to get 10 miles out of it for overlap but can go less. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations How far do you need to go? -RickG On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I'm in need to replace some older Omni antennas, 2.4 and 5.8, to connect to a Mikrotik 600a. Running the R52H cards for both bands with a dish for the 5.8 backhaul.. I'm not in the mood to experiment with the unknown, any recommendations on what is working for you? And what doesn't! Land is flat, rural farmland, small scattering of trees. We're up 70 feet in this location. Thanks! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations
Alvarion makes some decent outdoor antennas as well. --Curtis Marlon K. Schafer wrote: 8 dB Maxrad units. Good vertical coverage and they are easy to weather proof. Don't forget to order the mmk 8 mounts. I've cc'd Lee at Hutton/EC with this. Oh yeah, with the 8dB units make sure you don't go over 28dB on your tx output (I usually run about 17 on my systems) or you'll be over the 36dB legal limit for an AP. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:24 AM Subject: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations I'm in need to replace some older Omni antennas, 2.4 and 5.8, to connect to a Mikrotik 600a. Running the R52H cards for both bands with a dish for the 5.8 backhaul.. I'm not in the mood to experiment with the unknown, any recommendations on what is working for you? And what doesn't! Land is flat, rural farmland, small scattering of trees. We're up 70 feet in this location. Thanks! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations
What type of signal you getting on your systems at 15?The land here is pretty flat, not much variation, some trees, no pine at all. Your basic flat as a pancake farmland. What's your setup? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations roflol We routinely go 15 or more to an omni. And we don't use amps and rarely even go all the way up to 36 watts eirp. Overall system design is important. Not just big omnis and amps Maybe I need to get out there and do some consulting work again? sheesh Who's been teaching people for the last 2 or 3 years? marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations 10 is a dream... I know. But been thinking of going sector. Not many users there at the moment but replacing the antennas may be a good reason to upgrade the whole mess. Really only need a good 3 to 5 miles but further is always better for redundancy. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations I wouldnt use an omni to go 10 miles. Why not sector? -RickG On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Would like to get 10 miles out of it for overlap but can go less. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations How far do you need to go? -RickG On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I'm in need to replace some older Omni antennas, 2.4 and 5.8, to connect to a Mikrotik 600a. Running the R52H cards for both bands with a dish for the 5.8 backhaul.. I'm not in the mood to experiment with the unknown, any recommendations on what is working for you? And what doesn't! Land is flat, rural farmland, small scattering of trees. We're up 70 feet in this location. Thanks! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations
You taught me Marlon :) What I take home from you is: Stay away from omni antennas unless they are low gain. Sectors are better. Keep power low. No amps. etc, etc. Doesnt using an omni to go 15 miles invite a lot of interference? (Still learning) -RickG On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: roflol We routinely go 15 or more to an omni. And we don't use amps and rarely even go all the way up to 36 watts eirp. Overall system design is important. Not just big omnis and amps Maybe I need to get out there and do some consulting work again? sheesh Who's been teaching people for the last 2 or 3 years? marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations 10 is a dream... I know. But been thinking of going sector. Not many users there at the moment but replacing the antennas may be a good reason to upgrade the whole mess. Really only need a good 3 to 5 miles but further is always better for redundancy. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations I wouldnt use an omni to go 10 miles. Why not sector? -RickG On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Would like to get 10 miles out of it for overlap but can go less. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations How far do you need to go? -RickG On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I'm in need to replace some older Omni antennas, 2.4 and 5.8, to connect to a Mikrotik 600a. Running the R52H cards for both bands with a dish for the 5.8 backhaul.. I'm not in the mood to experiment with the unknown, any recommendations on what is working for you? And what doesn't! Land is flat, rural farmland, small scattering of trees. We're up 70 feet in this location. Thanks! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations
8 dB Maxrad units. Good vertical coverage and they are easy to weather proof. Don't forget to order the mmk 8 mounts. I've cc'd Lee at Hutton/EC with this. Oh yeah, with the 8dB units make sure you don't go over 28dB on your tx output (I usually run about 17 on my systems) or you'll be over the 36dB legal limit for an AP. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:24 AM Subject: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations I'm in need to replace some older Omni antennas, 2.4 and 5.8, to connect to a Mikrotik 600a. Running the R52H cards for both bands with a dish for the 5.8 backhaul.. I'm not in the mood to experiment with the unknown, any recommendations on what is working for you? And what doesn't! Land is flat, rural farmland, small scattering of trees. We're up 70 feet in this location. Thanks! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations
Would like to get 10 miles out of it for overlap but can go less. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations How far do you need to go? -RickG On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I'm in need to replace some older Omni antennas, 2.4 and 5.8, to connect to a Mikrotik 600a. Running the R52H cards for both bands with a dish for the 5.8 backhaul.. I'm not in the mood to experiment with the unknown, any recommendations on what is working for you? And what doesn't! Land is flat, rural farmland, small scattering of trees. We're up 70 feet in this location. Thanks! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations
I wouldnt use an omni to go 10 miles. Why not sector? -RickG On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Would like to get 10 miles out of it for overlap but can go less. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations How far do you need to go? -RickG On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I'm in need to replace some older Omni antennas, 2.4 and 5.8, to connect to a Mikrotik 600a. Running the R52H cards for both bands with a dish for the 5.8 backhaul.. I'm not in the mood to experiment with the unknown, any recommendations on what is working for you? And what doesn't! Land is flat, rural farmland, small scattering of trees. We're up 70 feet in this location. Thanks! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations
10 is a dream... I know. But been thinking of going sector. Not many users there at the moment but replacing the antennas may be a good reason to upgrade the whole mess. Really only need a good 3 to 5 miles but further is always better for redundancy. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:32 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations I wouldnt use an omni to go 10 miles. Why not sector? -RickG On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Would like to get 10 miles out of it for overlap but can go less. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 11:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations How far do you need to go? -RickG On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I'm in need to replace some older Omni antennas, 2.4 and 5.8, to connect to a Mikrotik 600a. Running the R52H cards for both bands with a dish for the 5.8 backhaul.. I'm not in the mood to experiment with the unknown, any recommendations on what is working for you? And what doesn't! Land is flat, rural farmland, small scattering of trees. We're up 70 feet in this location. Thanks! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Antenna Recommendations
I'm in need to replace some older Omni antennas, 2.4 and 5.8, to connect to a Mikrotik 600a. Running the R52H cards for both bands with a dish for the 5.8 backhaul.. I'm not in the mood to experiment with the unknown, any recommendations on what is working for you? And what doesn't! Land is flat, rural farmland, small scattering of trees. We're up 70 feet in this location. Thanks! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Antenna Recommendations
How far do you need to go? -RickG On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I'm in need to replace some older Omni antennas, 2.4 and 5.8, to connect to a Mikrotik 600a. Running the R52H cards for both bands with a dish for the 5.8 backhaul.. I'm not in the mood to experiment with the unknown, any recommendations on what is working for you? And what doesn't! Land is flat, rural farmland, small scattering of trees. We're up 70 feet in this location. Thanks! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
