Re: [WISPA] Ethernet over power lines (not the failedpower companyBPL trials)

2013-12-29 Thread ralph
That’s what I’m looking for, Jay.

 

When I say “Master”, I mean the one functioning as the backhaul to my network. 

One master on the pole (in the case of MuniWiFi enhancement)  (or in the 
rafters of the covered dock in a marina application) and a number of slaves on 
the boats or in housed, all on the same secondary.  Our marinas have 
transformers on shore and 60-70 boat slips on the single phase secondary. I 
could do the whole dock with 2 masters.

 

Of course to have a n Ethernet manageable one would be the cat’s meow. Then we 
could authorize the subscribers individually, like a CATV CMTS.

 

But since  our network is run as a hotspot the size of half a state, they still 
have to get past the captive portal anyway so that’s why Manageable is just 
something really nice but not required.

 

The WiFi works pretty well in the boats, but some of these yachts have 
basements that the WiFi doesn’t get into or the boats are so big (120-150ft) 
the coverage is poor.

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 2:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ethernet over power lines (not the failedpower companyBPL 
trials)

 

 

I'll look them up next week - yes - had as many as four connected.  There was 
no "master" unit, it was all one big "bridge", like having them all on a switch

 

- Original Message - 

From: ralph <mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org>  

To: 'WISPA General List' <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>  

Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 8:53 AM

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ethernet over power lines (not the failedpower companyBPL 
trials)

 

Thanks Jay.

Did you ever try to get more than one remote to connect to a master without 
doing anything special?

That’s my ultimate goal. And do you remember the model unit you used?

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>  
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 1:43 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ethernet over power lines (not the failed power companyBPL 
trials)

 

 

Ralph - pretty sure we used the netgear model units and they did not require 
anything more than plug and pray.  Worked great.

 

- Original Message - 

From: ralph <mailto:ralphli...@bsrg.org>  

To: 'WISPA General List' <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>  

Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ethernet over power lines (not the failed power companyBPL 
trials)

 

Then you may not be talking about what I am talking about.

I think it may have been Duke Power who did some of the 1st generation 
trial/pilots I speak of.  It was quite a while ago,  It was too expensive, 
didn’t work well, and, well, yes it certainly did interfere with licensed users 
(Ham Radio and International broadcasters). It is a part 15 service. It 
transmits on unshielded wires on approximately 2-30 MHz. This covers almost all 
low frequency Ham bands, International broadcast, and CB.  Here is the database 
of the “trials”  <http://p1k.arrl.org/~ehare/bpl/ex2.html#Cities> 
http://p1k.arrl.org/~ehare/bpl/ex2.html#Cities  It is way out of date, but 
there is tons of interesting information here. Unfortunately a great many of 
the links are broken.

 

The two most spectacular failures were those of IBEC, (the company I believe 
Clay is describing) who folded January of 2012. They cited the power line 
disruption from the Southeastern Tornadoes as the reason.  These are the same 
tornadoes that tore up several of us here on this list- especially in Alabama!  
IBEC was competing with WISPS and all the while causing illegal interference to 
FCC licensed users.

 
<http://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-shows-ibec-bpl-systems-are-interfering-violating-fcc-rules>
 
http://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-shows-ibec-bpl-systems-are-interfering-violating-fcc-rules

 

The second was the City of Manassas, VA, who started their trial way back in 
2002. The “plug was pulled” on their BPL in July of 2010.

 

A little Google-ing will find you demonstrations of how horrible the 
interference was.

 

The part 15 rules concerning BPL are very interesting:  47 C.F.R. §15.615  
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.615

 

The official database of BPL systems that operators are, per the FCC, supposed 
to list their systems in at least 30 days before beginning operations is at  
http://www.bpldatabase.org/listing/  IBEC repeatedly violated that FCC rule

 

 

 

 

 

The most recent technology (HomePlug) incorporates protection 
(filtering/notching)  for the Amateur bands and is a much more friendly 
neighbor.

 

Speaking of your Radio Shack devices (and I had a lot of them too) – they were 
based on the BSR X10 technology. The 80’s stuff was pretty poor. Later on it 
evolved to be a lot better and even worked bidirectionally, whi

Re: [WISPA] Ethernet over power lines (not the failedpower companyBPL trials)

2013-12-29 Thread CBB - Jay Fuller

I'll look them up next week - yes - had as many as four connected.  There was 
no "master" unit, it was all one big "bridge", like having them all on a switch

  - Original Message - 
  From: ralph 
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 8:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ethernet over power lines (not the failedpower 
companyBPL trials)


  Thanks Jay.

  Did you ever try to get more than one remote to connect to a master without 
doing anything special?

  That’s my ultimate goal. And do you remember the model unit you used?

   

  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
  Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 1:43 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ethernet over power lines (not the failed power 
companyBPL trials)

   

   

  Ralph - pretty sure we used the netgear model units and they did not require 
anything more than plug and pray.  Worked great.

   

- Original Message - 

From: ralph 

To: 'WISPA General List' 

Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ethernet over power lines (not the failed power 
companyBPL trials)

 

Then you may not be talking about what I am talking about.

I think it may have been Duke Power who did some of the 1st generation 
trial/pilots I speak of.  It was quite a while ago,  It was too expensive, 
didn’t work well, and, well, yes it certainly did interfere with licensed users 
(Ham Radio and International broadcasters). It is a part 15 service. It 
transmits on unshielded wires on approximately 2-30 MHz. This covers almost all 
low frequency Ham bands, International broadcast, and CB.  Here is the database 
of the “trials” http://p1k.arrl.org/~ehare/bpl/ex2.html#Cities  It is way out 
of date, but there is tons of interesting information here. Unfortunately a 
great many of the links are broken.

 

The two most spectacular failures were those of IBEC, (the company I 
believe Clay is describing) who folded January of 2012. They cited the power 
line disruption from the Southeastern Tornadoes as the reason.  These are the 
same tornadoes that tore up several of us here on this list- especially in 
Alabama!  IBEC was competing with WISPS and all the while causing illegal 
interference to FCC licensed users.


http://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-shows-ibec-bpl-systems-are-interfering-violating-fcc-rules

 

The second was the City of Manassas, VA, who started their trial way back 
in 2002. The “plug was pulled” on their BPL in July of 2010.

 

A little Google-ing will find you demonstrations of how horrible the 
interference was.

 

The part 15 rules concerning BPL are very interesting:  47 C.F.R. §15.615  
http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.615

 

The official database of BPL systems that operators are, per the FCC, 
supposed to list their systems in at least 30 days before beginning operations 
is at  http://www.bpldatabase.org/listing/  IBEC repeatedly violated that FCC 
rule

 

 

 

 

 

The most recent technology (HomePlug) incorporates protection 
(filtering/notching)  for the Amateur bands and is a much more friendly 
neighbor.

 

Speaking of your Radio Shack devices (and I had a lot of them too) – they 
were based on the BSR X10 technology. The 80’s stuff was pretty poor. Later on 
it evolved to be a lot better and even worked bidirectionally, which really 
helped the reliability.  Many home automation companies sprang up to utilize 
the technology. When I was in the burglar business we laughed at the “Car 
Trunkers” trying to sell an alarm based on them- before they were even 2 way.  
My smart thermostat uses the X-10 passive infrared sensors to let it know when 
the different rooms are occupied.

 

And like yours, many of modules are now dead, but I try to keep a few 
around to use to turn the Christmas lights off and on.   That X10 company who 
advertised us to death a few years ago was also responsible for those 2.4 GHz 
analog video cameras that can singlehandedly wipe out the entire 2.4 WiFi band. 
Boy am I glad they don’t advertise like that anymore! They seem to have calmed 
down and are mostly about security and switching again now.

 

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Clay Stewart
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 6:19 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ethernet over power lines (not the failed power 
company BPL trials)

 

Funny to see this today. I was upgrading a customers equipment today who 
works for the Electric company that provided service for BPL here, until it 
failed.

 

He was telling me how they are still, after two years, finding and pulling 
the equipment off their poles and piling them up in a heap.

 

I would