Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
As an ISP, you have to keep up with the Joneses. The reason why dial-up has died, is because companies began to engineer their web applications for the up to 1 meg service of DSL and cable (20 times faster than dialup). With cable at 15+ megs, DSL available at 10 - 15 megs, and new fiber plants offering 50 megs, even 1 meg service is starting to be the dial-up of today. I would much rather pressure industry to develop faster technologies before I need them than be forced by my customers to get faster equipment when we haven't been pressuring industry. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative WISPs need to be able to deploy 10 megabit plus pipes to the home. No they don't. WISPs need to deploy 10mbps pipes to homes in order to compete equally with Cable Cos and RBOCs. I serve many neighborhoods today, with 900Mhz inteference haven, and they are glad I'm there. 30% of America still does not use broadband. I'm sure they'll be thrilled with their new abilty to ahve always on Email and basic Web just like today's broadband users were 5 years ago. But there are many applications that 20Mhz will solve. I agree, giving an additional 20Mhz will not solve the world's wireless broadband problems, but every bit helps, and 20Mhz helps alot. People's 25 Mhz 3650 now becomes 45Mhz, when they combine 2155 with 3650. Manufactureres need to build multi-band radios, bit that apears to be no problem, based on current tri-band plaus radios on the market today. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative What equipment lets me have 1 GB of throughput on a single site in only 20 MHz of available frequency? WISPs need to be able to deploy 10 megabit plus pipes to the home. A single user then chews up most of your 3.5 or 7 MHz channel. I know physics comes into play. I know government policy comes into play. I know money comes into play. The above is what we should be striving for. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Tony, the average Wisp is NOT a cellular company and cannot invest 50K per AP and 800 per CPE. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike I do not agree with this at all. Most WISP are used to using 20Mhz 802.11 devices which are VERY frequency inefficient. With 20Mhz and a radio designed to make the most use of the spectrum could easily create channels using 3.5Mhz or 7Mhz in size plus channel reuse and polarizations. I could have well over 1Gb per cell site with users in the 2-3000 range. 802.22 is working on a protocol that is perfect for WISP and can make use of any spectrum very efficiently. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Hopefully he's not referring to the 20 MHz they're trying to make for free access there. 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:56 PM Subject: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative http://telephonyonline.com/external.html?q=http://www.pcworld.com/businessce nter/article/147485/fcc_member_lessig_unveil_us_broadband_initiative.html Looks like this could be the start of a good thing. The mention freeing up more spectrum for wireless. Sincerely, Scottie Arnett --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
When will we see your equipment? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike - You really need to read the full 802.22 spec :) There is A LOT more than just channel bonding that make 802.22 good. - 6Mhz is more than enough for all WISPs needs when it's used correctly, again (I know) not 802.11 - 3.65Mhz is just in the startup Wimax was first to hit the street but this will be changing. So Demarc will have a 3.65Ghz base unit and CPE with our own MAC base on top of the Atheros radio that takes full advantage of the 50Mhz. So the costs for the base and CPE will not be much higher than 2.4Ghz is now :) This also will help 900Mhz. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative 802.22 sounds good if the channel bonding makes it through to the end and is usable. THAT would be wonderful. If not, 6 MHz isn't going to get us very far in terms of delivering real throughput to any significant number of users. Price always comes into play and if we're looking at $10k APs and $800 CPE like we are for 3.65, again, that won't fly with a typical WISP. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative I clearly understand this, where did you get $50k per AP and $800 per CPE?? Wimax? I would not care if a WISP had the money of a cellular company, these prices would not make scenes in either case. On top of this, cost of the equipment was not the point, but I am fully aware this makes a differences in a WISP business. My point is simply to the quote 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. Which is 100% wrong 20Mhz here and there will make a HUGE difference to WISP as long as you have cost effective equipment to deploy in these frequencies ranges. My prediction is over the next 18-36 months is any WISP that is going to say in the business will start to migrate fully over to 3.65Ghz and depending on what happens with white space, which is the holy grail for WISP if we can get 802.22 as the standard like ATSC is for digital TV, start looking at it for the best WISP solutions for most of the country. Comments Welcome! :) Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Tony, the average Wisp is NOT a cellular company and cannot invest 50K per AP and 800 per CPE. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike I do not agree with this at all. Most WISP are used to using 20Mhz 802.11 devices which are VERY frequency inefficient. With 20Mhz and a radio designed to make the most use of the spectrum could easily create channels using 3.5Mhz or 7Mhz in size plus channel reuse and polarizations. I could have well over 1Gb per cell site with users in the 2-3000 range. 802.22 is working on a protocol that is perfect for WISP and can make use of any spectrum very efficiently. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Hopefully he's not referring to the 20 MHz they're trying to make for free access there. 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
I couldn't find a page that had this spec spelled out, and I'm sure once I do see it, it'll be way too dry to keep my focus for more than 20 seconds. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike - You really need to read the full 802.22 spec :) There is A LOT more than just channel bonding that make 802.22 good. - 6Mhz is more than enough for all WISPs needs when it's used correctly, again (I know) not 802.11 - 3.65Mhz is just in the startup Wimax was first to hit the street but this will be changing. So Demarc will have a 3.65Ghz base unit and CPE with our own MAC base on top of the Atheros radio that takes full advantage of the 50Mhz. So the costs for the base and CPE will not be much higher than 2.4Ghz is now :) This also will help 900Mhz. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative 802.22 sounds good if the channel bonding makes it through to the end and is usable. THAT would be wonderful. If not, 6 MHz isn't going to get us very far in terms of delivering real throughput to any significant number of users. Price always comes into play and if we're looking at $10k APs and $800 CPE like we are for 3.65, again, that won't fly with a typical WISP. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative I clearly understand this, where did you get $50k per AP and $800 per CPE?? Wimax? I would not care if a WISP had the money of a cellular company, these prices would not make scenes in either case. On top of this, cost of the equipment was not the point, but I am fully aware this makes a differences in a WISP business. My point is simply to the quote 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. Which is 100% wrong 20Mhz here and there will make a HUGE difference to WISP as long as you have cost effective equipment to deploy in these frequencies ranges. My prediction is over the next 18-36 months is any WISP that is going to say in the business will start to migrate fully over to 3.65Ghz and depending on what happens with white space, which is the holy grail for WISP if we can get 802.22 as the standard like ATSC is for digital TV, start looking at it for the best WISP solutions for most of the country. Comments Welcome! :) Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Tony, the average Wisp is NOT a cellular company and cannot invest 50K per AP and 800 per CPE. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike I do not agree with this at all. Most WISP are used to using 20Mhz 802.11 devices which are VERY frequency inefficient. With 20Mhz and a radio designed to make the most use of the spectrum could easily create channels using 3.5Mhz or 7Mhz in size plus channel reuse and polarizations. I could have well over 1Gb per cell site with users in the 2-3000 range. 802.22 is working on a protocol that is perfect for WISP and can make use of any spectrum very efficiently. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Hopefully he's not referring to the 20 MHz they're trying to make for free access there. 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
Mike It is a bit too early to say right now, once the MAC is done we will have a better idea. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 8:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative When will we see your equipment? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike - You really need to read the full 802.22 spec :) There is A LOT more than just channel bonding that make 802.22 good. - 6Mhz is more than enough for all WISPs needs when it's used correctly, again (I know) not 802.11 - 3.65Mhz is just in the startup Wimax was first to hit the street but this will be changing. So Demarc will have a 3.65Ghz base unit and CPE with our own MAC base on top of the Atheros radio that takes full advantage of the 50Mhz. So the costs for the base and CPE will not be much higher than 2.4Ghz is now :) This also will help 900Mhz. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative 802.22 sounds good if the channel bonding makes it through to the end and is usable. THAT would be wonderful. If not, 6 MHz isn't going to get us very far in terms of delivering real throughput to any significant number of users. Price always comes into play and if we're looking at $10k APs and $800 CPE like we are for 3.65, again, that won't fly with a typical WISP. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative I clearly understand this, where did you get $50k per AP and $800 per CPE?? Wimax? I would not care if a WISP had the money of a cellular company, these prices would not make scenes in either case. On top of this, cost of the equipment was not the point, but I am fully aware this makes a differences in a WISP business. My point is simply to the quote 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. Which is 100% wrong 20Mhz here and there will make a HUGE difference to WISP as long as you have cost effective equipment to deploy in these frequencies ranges. My prediction is over the next 18-36 months is any WISP that is going to say in the business will start to migrate fully over to 3.65Ghz and depending on what happens with white space, which is the holy grail for WISP if we can get 802.22 as the standard like ATSC is for digital TV, start looking at it for the best WISP solutions for most of the country. Comments Welcome! :) Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Tony, the average Wisp is NOT a cellular company and cannot invest 50K per AP and 800 per CPE. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike I do not agree with this at all. Most WISP are used to using 20Mhz 802.11 devices which are VERY frequency inefficient. With 20Mhz and a radio designed to make the most use of the spectrum could easily create channels using 3.5Mhz or 7Mhz in size plus channel reuse and polarizations. I could have well over 1Gb per cell site with users in the 2-3000 range. 802.22 is working on a protocol that is perfect for WISP and can make use of any spectrum very efficiently. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
Tony, Real throughput requires that much per sector. That is incorrect. It requires that much per sector when the sector is a wide beam PtMP sector, and when there is tons of interference because the band is shared by many. If one provider controls 20Mhz, spectrum reuse can be engineered very easilly. That is the big scare here. If a maga comapny (the only ones largest enough to win Auctions) was to be granted 20Mhz of spectrum for broadband, it will enable a huge amount of services to be offered. A real threat to existing WISPs as far as competition goes. And being forced to give 20% of it away for free is worse. The 20% that they chose to give it to free to, will likely be the person that sends in a competitive bid from you the pre-existing local WISP. If they can't beat you, give it away to put the pressaure on you, after all tehy are just meeting their auction requirements, that they have to do any way. why not kill two birds with one stone. PtMP are not the only applications. A little GPS sync, and many PTP connections can work from a single location, enabling expansion of one's network very easilly. I can see it now... a 4 port starOS box (mesh radio) with 4 PtP stars, each 5 mhz, enabling 10 mbps minimum per sector, more than the typical PtMP sector my network had when it started 6 years ago. Wireless networks aren;t going to stay 100% wireless transport networks. Fiber is going to start to be available at more and more street corners (figure of speach). Start combineing 3650, 2155, 700Mhz, licensed technology, and all togeather bit by bit, it grows to be a large amount. I'd kill to get 20Mhz more spectrum at some of my cell sites. I ahve cell sites where 5.8Ghz gives me 180 degrees before I run out of spectrum. I could get 90 degrees more with another 20Mhz. Its all about mix and matching. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative I clearly understand this, where did you get $50k per AP and $800 per CPE?? Wimax? I would not care if a WISP had the money of a cellular company, these prices would not make scenes in either case. On top of this, cost of the equipment was not the point, but I am fully aware this makes a differences in a WISP business. My point is simply to the quote 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. Which is 100% wrong 20Mhz here and there will make a HUGE difference to WISP as long as you have cost effective equipment to deploy in these frequencies ranges. My prediction is over the next 18-36 months is any WISP that is going to say in the business will start to migrate fully over to 3.65Ghz and depending on what happens with white space, which is the holy grail for WISP if we can get 802.22 as the standard like ATSC is for digital TV, start looking at it for the best WISP solutions for most of the country. Comments Welcome! :) Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Tony, the average Wisp is NOT a cellular company and cannot invest 50K per AP and 800 per CPE. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike I do not agree with this at all. Most WISP are used to using 20Mhz 802.11 devices which are VERY frequency inefficient. With 20Mhz and a radio designed to make the most use of the spectrum could easily create channels using 3.5Mhz or 7Mhz in size plus channel reuse and polarizations. I could have well over 1Gb per cell site with users in the 2-3000 range. 802.22 is working on a protocol that is perfect for WISP and can make use of any spectrum very efficiently. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Hopefully he's not referring to the 20 MHz they're trying to make for free access there. 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
WISPs need to be able to deploy 10 megabit plus pipes to the home. No they don't. WISPs need to deploy 10mbps pipes to homes in order to compete equally with Cable Cos and RBOCs. I serve many neighborhoods today, with 900Mhz inteference haven, and they are glad I'm there. 30% of America still does not use broadband. I'm sure they'll be thrilled with their new abilty to ahve always on Email and basic Web just like today's broadband users were 5 years ago. But there are many applications that 20Mhz will solve. I agree, giving an additional 20Mhz will not solve the world's wireless broadband problems, but every bit helps, and 20Mhz helps alot. People's 25 Mhz 3650 now becomes 45Mhz, when they combine 2155 with 3650. Manufactureres need to build multi-band radios, bit that apears to be no problem, based on current tri-band plaus radios on the market today. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative What equipment lets me have 1 GB of throughput on a single site in only 20 MHz of available frequency? WISPs need to be able to deploy 10 megabit plus pipes to the home. A single user then chews up most of your 3.5 or 7 MHz channel. I know physics comes into play. I know government policy comes into play. I know money comes into play. The above is what we should be striving for. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Tony, the average Wisp is NOT a cellular company and cannot invest 50K per AP and 800 per CPE. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike I do not agree with this at all. Most WISP are used to using 20Mhz 802.11 devices which are VERY frequency inefficient. With 20Mhz and a radio designed to make the most use of the spectrum could easily create channels using 3.5Mhz or 7Mhz in size plus channel reuse and polarizations. I could have well over 1Gb per cell site with users in the 2-3000 range. 802.22 is working on a protocol that is perfect for WISP and can make use of any spectrum very efficiently. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Hopefully he's not referring to the 20 MHz they're trying to make for free access there. 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:56 PM Subject: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative http://telephonyonline.com/external.html?q=http://www.pcworld.com/businessce nter/article/147485/fcc_member_lessig_unveil_us_broadband_initiative.html Looks like this could be the start of a good thing. The mention freeing up more spectrum for wireless. Sincerely, Scottie Arnett --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
Tom DeReggi wrote: WISPs need to be able to deploy 10 megabit plus pipes to the home. People's 25 Mhz 3650 now becomes 45Mhz, when they combine 2155 with 3650. What is 2155? This is the second mention I have seen of it (both are on this thread). Google doesn't turn up much at a quick glance. Thanks! Charles Wyble WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
Tom You are still thinking like an 802.11 only protocol :) I can see you have your mind set, once things get closer to having real product then this would be a more valuable thread, until then! Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 2:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Tony, Real throughput requires that much per sector. That is incorrect. It requires that much per sector when the sector is a wide beam PtMP sector, and when there is tons of interference because the band is shared by many. If one provider controls 20Mhz, spectrum reuse can be engineered very easily. That is the big scare here. If a maga company (the only ones largest enough to win Auctions) was to be granted 20Mhz of spectrum for broadband, it will enable a huge amount of services to be offered. A real threat to existing WISPs as far as competition goes. And being forced to give 20% of it away for free is worse. The 20% that they chose to give it to free to, will likely be the person that sends in a competitive bid from you the pre-existing local WISP. If they can't beat you, give it away to put the pressaure on you, after all tehy are just meeting their auction requirements, that they have to do any way. why not kill two birds with one stone. PtMP are not the only applications. A little GPS sync, and many PTP connections can work from a single location, enabling expansion of one's network very easilly. I can see it now... a 4 port starOS box (mesh radio) with 4 PtP stars, each 5 mhz, enabling 10 mbps minimum per sector, more than the typical PtMP sector my network had when it started 6 years ago. Wireless networks aren;t going to stay 100% wireless transport networks. Fiber is going to start to be available at more and more street corners (figure of speach). Start combineing 3650, 2155, 700Mhz, licensed technology, and all togeather bit by bit, it grows to be a large amount. I'd kill to get 20Mhz more spectrum at some of my cell sites. I ahve cell sites where 5.8Ghz gives me 180 degrees before I run out of spectrum. I could get 90 degrees more with another 20Mhz. Its all about mix and matching. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative I clearly understand this, where did you get $50k per AP and $800 per CPE?? Wimax? I would not care if a WISP had the money of a cellular company, these prices would not make scenes in either case. On top of this, cost of the equipment was not the point, but I am fully aware this makes a differences in a WISP business. My point is simply to the quote 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. Which is 100% wrong 20Mhz here and there will make a HUGE difference to WISP as long as you have cost effective equipment to deploy in these frequencies ranges. My prediction is over the next 18-36 months is any WISP that is going to say in the business will start to migrate fully over to 3.65Ghz and depending on what happens with white space, which is the holy grail for WISP if we can get 802.22 as the standard like ATSC is for digital TV, start looking at it for the best WISP solutions for most of the country. Comments Welcome! :) Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Tony, the average Wisp is NOT a cellular company and cannot invest 50K per AP and 800 per CPE. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike I do not agree with this at all. Most WISP are used to using 20Mhz 802.11 devices which are VERY frequency inefficient. With 20Mhz and a radio designed to make the most use of the spectrum could easily create channels using 3.5Mhz or 7Mhz in size plus channel reuse and polarizations. I could have well over 1Gb per cell site with users in the 2-3000 range. 802.22 is working on a protocol that is perfect for WISP and can make use of any
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
What equipment lets me have 1 GB of throughput on a single site in only 20 MHz of available frequency? WISPs need to be able to deploy 10 megabit plus pipes to the home. A single user then chews up most of your 3.5 or 7 MHz channel. I know physics comes into play. I know government policy comes into play. I know money comes into play. The above is what we should be striving for. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Tony, the average Wisp is NOT a cellular company and cannot invest 50K per AP and 800 per CPE. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike I do not agree with this at all. Most WISP are used to using 20Mhz 802.11 devices which are VERY frequency inefficient. With 20Mhz and a radio designed to make the most use of the spectrum could easily create channels using 3.5Mhz or 7Mhz in size plus channel reuse and polarizations. I could have well over 1Gb per cell site with users in the 2-3000 range. 802.22 is working on a protocol that is perfect for WISP and can make use of any spectrum very efficiently. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Hopefully he's not referring to the 20 MHz they're trying to make for free access there. 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:56 PM Subject: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative http://telephonyonline.com/external.html?q=http://www.pcworld.com/businessce nter/article/147485/fcc_member_lessig_unveil_us_broadband_initiative.html Looks like this could be the start of a good thing. The mention freeing up more spectrum for wireless. Sincerely, Scottie Arnett --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
802.22 sounds good if the channel bonding makes it through to the end and is usable. THAT would be wonderful. If not, 6 MHz isn't going to get us very far in terms of delivering real throughput to any significant number of users. Price always comes into play and if we're looking at $10k APs and $800 CPE like we are for 3.65, again, that won't fly with a typical WISP. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative I clearly understand this, where did you get $50k per AP and $800 per CPE?? Wimax? I would not care if a WISP had the money of a cellular company, these prices would not make scenes in either case. On top of this, cost of the equipment was not the point, but I am fully aware this makes a differences in a WISP business. My point is simply to the quote 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. Which is 100% wrong 20Mhz here and there will make a HUGE difference to WISP as long as you have cost effective equipment to deploy in these frequencies ranges. My prediction is over the next 18-36 months is any WISP that is going to say in the business will start to migrate fully over to 3.65Ghz and depending on what happens with white space, which is the holy grail for WISP if we can get 802.22 as the standard like ATSC is for digital TV, start looking at it for the best WISP solutions for most of the country. Comments Welcome! :) Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Tony, the average Wisp is NOT a cellular company and cannot invest 50K per AP and 800 per CPE. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike I do not agree with this at all. Most WISP are used to using 20Mhz 802.11 devices which are VERY frequency inefficient. With 20Mhz and a radio designed to make the most use of the spectrum could easily create channels using 3.5Mhz or 7Mhz in size plus channel reuse and polarizations. I could have well over 1Gb per cell site with users in the 2-3000 range. 802.22 is working on a protocol that is perfect for WISP and can make use of any spectrum very efficiently. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Hopefully he's not referring to the 20 MHz they're trying to make for free access there. 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:56 PM Subject: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative http://telephonyonline.com/external.html?q=http://www.pcworld.com/businessce nter/article/147485/fcc_member_lessig_unveil_us_broadband_initiative.html Looks like this could be the start of a good thing. The mention freeing up more spectrum for wireless. Sincerely, Scottie Arnett --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
Mike - It's not just a single antenna on one channel, I am talking about channel reuse. Again need to stop thinking 802.11 - It is possible to have 50Mb-60Mb real data in a 70Mb/7Mhz channel with the right MAC and PHY and in real deployments. - The only reason a single user could use all the bandwidth is because the protocol does not have a dynamic polling algorithm, again not 802.11 :) Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative What equipment lets me have 1 GB of throughput on a single site in only 20 MHz of available frequency? WISPs need to be able to deploy 10 megabit plus pipes to the home. A single user then chews up most of your 3.5 or 7 MHz channel. I know physics comes into play. I know government policy comes into play. I know money comes into play. The above is what we should be striving for. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Tony, the average Wisp is NOT a cellular company and cannot invest 50K per AP and 800 per CPE. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike I do not agree with this at all. Most WISP are used to using 20Mhz 802.11 devices which are VERY frequency inefficient. With 20Mhz and a radio designed to make the most use of the spectrum could easily create channels using 3.5Mhz or 7Mhz in size plus channel reuse and polarizations. I could have well over 1Gb per cell site with users in the 2-3000 range. 802.22 is working on a protocol that is perfect for WISP and can make use of any spectrum very efficiently. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Hopefully he's not referring to the 20 MHz they're trying to make for free access there. 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:56 PM Subject: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative http://telephonyonline.com/external.html?q=http://www.pcworld.com/businessce nter/article/147485/fcc_member_lessig_unveil_us_broadband_initiative.html Looks like this could be the start of a good thing. The mention freeing up more spectrum for wireless. Sincerely, Scottie Arnett --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
Mike - You really need to read the full 802.22 spec :) There is A LOT more than just channel bonding that make 802.22 good. - 6Mhz is more than enough for all WISPs needs when it's used correctly, again (I know) not 802.11 - 3.65Mhz is just in the startup Wimax was first to hit the street but this will be changing. So Demarc will have a 3.65Ghz base unit and CPE with our own MAC base on top of the Atheros radio that takes full advantage of the 50Mhz. So the costs for the base and CPE will not be much higher than 2.4Ghz is now :) This also will help 900Mhz. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative 802.22 sounds good if the channel bonding makes it through to the end and is usable. THAT would be wonderful. If not, 6 MHz isn't going to get us very far in terms of delivering real throughput to any significant number of users. Price always comes into play and if we're looking at $10k APs and $800 CPE like we are for 3.65, again, that won't fly with a typical WISP. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative I clearly understand this, where did you get $50k per AP and $800 per CPE?? Wimax? I would not care if a WISP had the money of a cellular company, these prices would not make scenes in either case. On top of this, cost of the equipment was not the point, but I am fully aware this makes a differences in a WISP business. My point is simply to the quote 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. Which is 100% wrong 20Mhz here and there will make a HUGE difference to WISP as long as you have cost effective equipment to deploy in these frequencies ranges. My prediction is over the next 18-36 months is any WISP that is going to say in the business will start to migrate fully over to 3.65Ghz and depending on what happens with white space, which is the holy grail for WISP if we can get 802.22 as the standard like ATSC is for digital TV, start looking at it for the best WISP solutions for most of the country. Comments Welcome! :) Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Tony, the average Wisp is NOT a cellular company and cannot invest 50K per AP and 800 per CPE. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike I do not agree with this at all. Most WISP are used to using 20Mhz 802.11 devices which are VERY frequency inefficient. With 20Mhz and a radio designed to make the most use of the spectrum could easily create channels using 3.5Mhz or 7Mhz in size plus channel reuse and polarizations. I could have well over 1Gb per cell site with users in the 2-3000 range. 802.22 is working on a protocol that is perfect for WISP and can make use of any spectrum very efficiently. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Hopefully he's not referring to the 20 MHz they're trying to make for free access there. 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:56 PM Subject: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative http://telephonyonline.com/external.html?q=http://www.pcworld.com/businessce nter/article/147485/fcc_member_lessig_unveil_us_broadband_initiative.html Looks
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
The problem, here Tony, is that the MAC's and PHY that accomlishes this kind of performance isn't built into chipsets that are mass produced like consumer chipsets are. Even I'm going to end up with Atheros based 3.6 ghz products, because nothing else currently makes any sense at all, dollar wise. And with prices like that, there is simpluy NO way to market to consumers. The performance levels ou're talking about will never be sold for numbers less than what I said and Mike seconded. And with the trends in currency value we're seeing, it's very doubtful it will ever reach that low. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike - It's not just a single antenna on one channel, I am talking about channel reuse. Again need to stop thinking 802.11 - It is possible to have 50Mb-60Mb real data in a 70Mb/7Mhz channel with the right MAC and PHY and in real deployments. - The only reason a single user could use all the bandwidth is because the protocol does not have a dynamic polling algorithm, again not 802.11 :) Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
Personally, I really wonder if it is possible to have 10 bits/HZ that a 60 Mbps channel in 6 MHz would have. 8VSB of HDTV was pretty advanced when it was originally proffered as a standard. It does 19.2 Mbps in a 6 MHz channel. Or approx 3 bits / Hz. That seems to be the upper limit of many systems these days. To triple this with any kind of realistic C/I ration will be a wondrous method of modulation. No doubt you could do it with 2048QAM with 1 KW behind it, but that is not reality AFAIK. If this modulation exists, please point me toward a reference work so I can become less ignorant. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 9:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative The problem, here Tony, is that the MAC's and PHY that accomlishes this kind of performance isn't built into chipsets that are mass produced like consumer chipsets are. Even I'm going to end up with Atheros based 3.6 ghz products, because nothing else currently makes any sense at all, dollar wise. And with prices like that, there is simpluy NO way to market to consumers. The performance levels ou're talking about will never be sold for numbers less than what I said and Mike seconded. And with the trends in currency value we're seeing, it's very doubtful it will ever reach that low. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike - It's not just a single antenna on one channel, I am talking about channel reuse. Again need to stop thinking 802.11 - It is possible to have 50Mb-60Mb real data in a 70Mb/7Mhz channel with the right MAC and PHY and in real deployments. - The only reason a single user could use all the bandwidth is because the protocol does not have a dynamic polling algorithm, again not 802.11 :) Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
Never say never. My first cell phone (a 3 watt Uniden bag phone) cost me over $1000.00. It may take time but the price levels will come down. It won't happen right away but it will happen. You can't have relatively protected spectrum and still have a throw away consumer priced piece of gear. This will be gear you can expect a longer life span and thus be able to spread your ROI over more time. While the prices may be more than you are used to spending, with the spectrum and longer life span you might also find it easier to finance the same equipment. This is how carriers like cell phone companies, cable operators and phone companies have done it time and time again. We can't get stuck in the same current thought paradigm when looking at whitespace plans.. This may require a step back, deep breath and try to look at things fresh. I can't tell you how many times in my 18 years of wireless I thought things could not be done or the public would never use features like that. I have been wrong many times. What I have learned is that we need to keep an open mind. Change will come and sometimes things happen we never would have imagined. I remember reading in a magazine as a kid about cellular mobile phones and it requiring all these new towers and frequency re-use. I thought to myself that it would cost way too much money to build all the towers and that they would never make moneyboy was I wrong... Think positive and think we can make this work! Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 11:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative The problem, here Tony, is that the MAC's and PHY that accomlishes this kind of performance isn't built into chipsets that are mass produced like consumer chipsets are. Even I'm going to end up with Atheros based 3.6 ghz products, because nothing else currently makes any sense at all, dollar wise. And with prices like that, there is simpluy NO way to market to consumers. The performance levels ou're talking about will never be sold for numbers less than what I said and Mike seconded. And with the trends in currency value we're seeing, it's very doubtful it will ever reach that low. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike - It's not just a single antenna on one channel, I am talking about channel reuse. Again need to stop thinking 802.11 - It is possible to have 50Mb-60Mb real data in a 70Mb/7Mhz channel with the right MAC and PHY and in real deployments. - The only reason a single user could use all the bandwidth is because the protocol does not have a dynamic polling algorithm, again not 802.11 :) Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
I agree with you 100% right now they are not and I should make the point that what I am talking about is what will be coming down the line in the next 18-24 months. I understand most WISP are in the here and now :) But with this said things are in the works. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 11:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative The problem, here Tony, is that the MAC's and PHY that accomlishes this kind of performance isn't built into chipsets that are mass produced like consumer chipsets are. Even I'm going to end up with Atheros based 3.6 ghz products, because nothing else currently makes any sense at all, dollar wise. And with prices like that, there is simpluy NO way to market to consumers. The performance levels ou're talking about will never be sold for numbers less than what I said and Mike seconded. And with the trends in currency value we're seeing, it's very doubtful it will ever reach that low. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike - It's not just a single antenna on one channel, I am talking about channel reuse. Again need to stop thinking 802.11 - It is possible to have 50Mb-60Mb real data in a 70Mb/7Mhz channel with the right MAC and PHY and in real deployments. - The only reason a single user could use all the bandwidth is because the protocol does not have a dynamic polling algorithm, again not 802.11 :) Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
Crap this was a typo should have been 10Mhz channel. Also right now 802.16m and LTE are doing 5bits/Hertz that has happen in field tests. Most of what I am talking about is OFDMA, MIMO with some type of advanced antenna system. I have seen test of AAS that are very cost effective it's just a matter of getting this all into a single package to be cost effective. Point is as these chipsets start to hit mass market we can start finding ways of using them :) Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 11:10 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Personally, I really wonder if it is possible to have 10 bits/HZ that a 60 Mbps channel in 6 MHz would have. 8VSB of HDTV was pretty advanced when it was originally proffered as a standard. It does 19.2 Mbps in a 6 MHz channel. Or approx 3 bits / Hz. That seems to be the upper limit of many systems these days. To triple this with any kind of realistic C/I ration will be a wondrous method of modulation. No doubt you could do it with 2048QAM with 1 KW behind it, but that is not reality AFAIK. If this modulation exists, please point me toward a reference work so I can become less ignorant. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 9:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative The problem, here Tony, is that the MAC's and PHY that accomlishes this kind of performance isn't built into chipsets that are mass produced like consumer chipsets are. Even I'm going to end up with Atheros based 3.6 ghz products, because nothing else currently makes any sense at all, dollar wise. And with prices like that, there is simpluy NO way to market to consumers. The performance levels ou're talking about will never be sold for numbers less than what I said and Mike seconded. And with the trends in currency value we're seeing, it's very doubtful it will ever reach that low. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike - It's not just a single antenna on one channel, I am talking about channel reuse. Again need to stop thinking 802.11 - It is possible to have 50Mb-60Mb real data in a 70Mb/7Mhz channel with the right MAC and PHY and in real deployments. - The only reason a single user could use all the bandwidth is because the protocol does not have a dynamic polling algorithm, again not 802.11 :) Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
Tony, the average Wisp is NOT a cellular company and cannot invest 50K per AP and 800 per CPE. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Mike I do not agree with this at all. Most WISP are used to using 20Mhz 802.11 devices which are VERY frequency inefficient. With 20Mhz and a radio designed to make the most use of the spectrum could easily create channels using 3.5Mhz or 7Mhz in size plus channel reuse and polarizations. I could have well over 1Gb per cell site with users in the 2-3000 range. 802.22 is working on a protocol that is perfect for WISP and can make use of any spectrum very efficiently. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Hopefully he's not referring to the 20 MHz they're trying to make for free access there. 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:56 PM Subject: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative http://telephonyonline.com/external.html?q=http://www.pcworld.com/businessce nter/article/147485/fcc_member_lessig_unveil_us_broadband_initiative.html Looks like this could be the start of a good thing. The mention freeing up more spectrum for wireless. Sincerely, Scottie Arnett --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
Mike I do not agree with this at all. Most WISP are used to using 20Mhz 802.11 devices which are VERY frequency inefficient. With 20Mhz and a radio designed to make the most use of the spectrum could easily create channels using 3.5Mhz or 7Mhz in size plus channel reuse and polarizations. I could have well over 1Gb per cell site with users in the 2-3000 range. 802.22 is working on a protocol that is perfect for WISP and can make use of any spectrum very efficiently. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative Hopefully he's not referring to the 20 MHz they're trying to make for free access there. 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:56 PM Subject: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative http://telephonyonline.com/external.html?q=http://www.pcworld.com/businessce nter/article/147485/fcc_member_lessig_unveil_us_broadband_initiative.html Looks like this could be the start of a good thing. The mention freeing up more spectrum for wireless. Sincerely, Scottie Arnett --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
http://telephonyonline.com/external.html?q=http://www.pcworld.com/businessce nter/article/147485/fcc_member_lessig_unveil_us_broadband_initiative.html Looks like this could be the start of a good thing. The mention freeing up more spectrum for wireless. Sincerely, Scottie Arnett --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative
Hopefully he's not referring to the 20 MHz they're trying to make for free access there. 20 MHz here and there just isn't going to work for broadband. Real throughput requires that much per sector. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:56 PM Subject: [WISPA] FCC Member, Lessig Unveil U.S. Broadband Initiative http://telephonyonline.com/external.html?q=http://www.pcworld.com/businessce nter/article/147485/fcc_member_lessig_unveil_us_broadband_initiative.html Looks like this could be the start of a good thing. The mention freeing up more spectrum for wireless. Sincerely, Scottie Arnett --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
