Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power
I lost my reply, so I'll see what I can come up with. Smaller package for equivalent energy storage. Longer lasting equipment (batteries die in 2 - 3 years). -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power I get fuel cell magazine each month. It is full of sources. Probably an on line version. Just curious, why? Battery efficiency is just as good if not better. Bound to be much cheaper. Fuel cells make water, and that causes problems in cold weather. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power I'm looking to run electricity through a hydrogen electrolyzer, store the hydrogen, then later run it through a fuel cell as needed. Does anyone have some good sources of information or products? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power
http://www.fuelcells.org/basics/types.html I have been looking at doing the same. The cost/benefit ratio just is not there yet from what I have seen. Not unless you can store a very large amount of fuel and need long (months +) run times between regeneration/refueling. If I have missed something I would be very interested in looking at this again. On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I lost my reply, so I'll see what I can come up with. Smaller package for equivalent energy storage. Longer lasting equipment (batteries die in 2 - 3 years). -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power I get fuel cell magazine each month. It is full of sources. Probably an on line version. Just curious, why? Battery efficiency is just as good if not better. Bound to be much cheaper. Fuel cells make water, and that causes problems in cold weather. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power I'm looking to run electricity through a hydrogen electrolyzer, store the hydrogen, then later run it through a fuel cell as needed. Does anyone have some good sources of information or products? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power
My batteries last between 10 and 20 years depending on whether they are flooded cells or AGM type. Energy volumetric density is about the same as high pressure hydrogen when you add in the compressor and cylinders. And if you are using low pressure storage you don't have near the energy density as the batts. Hydrolyser/fuel cell is about the same size or larger than a rack mounted switch mode rectifier. Plus you lose energy in the conversion process, more loss than the charge and discharge cycles of batts. - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power http://www.fuelcells.org/basics/types.html I have been looking at doing the same. The cost/benefit ratio just is not there yet from what I have seen. Not unless you can store a very large amount of fuel and need long (months +) run times between regeneration/refueling. If I have missed something I would be very interested in looking at this again. On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I lost my reply, so I'll see what I can come up with. Smaller package for equivalent energy storage. Longer lasting equipment (batteries die in 2 - 3 years). -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power I get fuel cell magazine each month. It is full of sources. Probably an on line version. Just curious, why? Battery efficiency is just as good if not better. Bound to be much cheaper. Fuel cells make water, and that causes problems in cold weather. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power I'm looking to run electricity through a hydrogen electrolyzer, store the hydrogen, then later run it through a fuel cell as needed. Does anyone have some good sources of information or products? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power
:) http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2008/01/hydropak_portable_power_gen erator_1.html http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/portable_power.htm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power My batteries last between 10 and 20 years depending on whether they are flooded cells or AGM type. Energy volumetric density is about the same as high pressure hydrogen when you add in the compressor and cylinders. And if you are using low pressure storage you don't have near the energy density as the batts. Hydrolyser/fuel cell is about the same size or larger than a rack mounted switch mode rectifier. Plus you lose energy in the conversion process, more loss than the charge and discharge cycles of batts. - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power http://www.fuelcells.org/basics/types.html I have been looking at doing the same. The cost/benefit ratio just is not there yet from what I have seen. Not unless you can store a very large amount of fuel and need long (months +) run times between regeneration/refueling. If I have missed something I would be very interested in looking at this again. On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I lost my reply, so I'll see what I can come up with. Smaller package for equivalent energy storage. Longer lasting equipment (batteries die in 2 - 3 years). -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power I get fuel cell magazine each month. It is full of sources. Probably an on line version. Just curious, why? Battery efficiency is just as good if not better. Bound to be much cheaper. Fuel cells make water, and that causes problems in cold weather. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power I'm looking to run electricity through a hydrogen electrolyzer, store the hydrogen, then later run it through a fuel cell as needed. Does anyone have some good sources of information or products? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power
Those are not rechargeable from mains power. Note the use of the disposable cartridges will retail for $20. Lots of sources for fuel cells that are powered off of hydrogen, methanol, natural gas or propane. You can buy any capacity you want... if you want to deal with the fuel. But if you are dealing with fuel you might as well put in a propane generator and be done with it. Mike's original post was: I'm looking to run electricity through a hydrogen electrolyzer, store the hydrogen, then later run it through a fuel cell as needed. Does anyone have some good sources of information or products? The hydropak does not do that. If you take the hydropak and add something to make the hydrogen it needs and compress it or somehow convert it to a form the hydropak can use I guarantee you that the whole mess will weigh more and cost more and use more electrical energy than a rectifier and battery. - Original Message - From: Smith, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power :) http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2008/01/hydropak_portable_power_gen erator_1.html http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/portable_power.htm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power My batteries last between 10 and 20 years depending on whether they are flooded cells or AGM type. Energy volumetric density is about the same as high pressure hydrogen when you add in the compressor and cylinders. And if you are using low pressure storage you don't have near the energy density as the batts. Hydrolyser/fuel cell is about the same size or larger than a rack mounted switch mode rectifier. Plus you lose energy in the conversion process, more loss than the charge and discharge cycles of batts. - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power http://www.fuelcells.org/basics/types.html I have been looking at doing the same. The cost/benefit ratio just is not there yet from what I have seen. Not unless you can store a very large amount of fuel and need long (months +) run times between regeneration/refueling. If I have missed something I would be very interested in looking at this again. On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I lost my reply, so I'll see what I can come up with. Smaller package for equivalent energy storage. Longer lasting equipment (batteries die in 2 - 3 years). -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power I get fuel cell magazine each month. It is full of sources. Probably an on line version. Just curious, why? Battery efficiency is just as good if not better. Bound to be much cheaper. Fuel cells make water, and that causes problems in cold weather. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power I'm looking to run electricity through a hydrogen electrolyzer, store the hydrogen, then later run it through a fuel cell as needed. Does anyone have some good sources of information or products? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe
Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power
Note also it stores 270 watt hours of energy. A 270 watt hour battery would cost you about $54 and you can recharge it thousands of times. The hydropak costs you $20 for each 270 watt hours delivered to load. Or $74 per kWh. I can charge my battery for $0.07 per kWh. That is a factor of 1000 times more for the cost of the energy. - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power Those are not rechargeable from mains power. Note the use of the disposable cartridges will retail for $20. Lots of sources for fuel cells that are powered off of hydrogen, methanol, natural gas or propane. You can buy any capacity you want... if you want to deal with the fuel. But if you are dealing with fuel you might as well put in a propane generator and be done with it. Mike's original post was: I'm looking to run electricity through a hydrogen electrolyzer, store the hydrogen, then later run it through a fuel cell as needed. Does anyone have some good sources of information or products? The hydropak does not do that. If you take the hydropak and add something to make the hydrogen it needs and compress it or somehow convert it to a form the hydropak can use I guarantee you that the whole mess will weigh more and cost more and use more electrical energy than a rectifier and battery. - Original Message - From: Smith, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power :) http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2008/01/hydropak_portable_power_gen erator_1.html http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/portable_power.htm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power My batteries last between 10 and 20 years depending on whether they are flooded cells or AGM type. Energy volumetric density is about the same as high pressure hydrogen when you add in the compressor and cylinders. And if you are using low pressure storage you don't have near the energy density as the batts. Hydrolyser/fuel cell is about the same size or larger than a rack mounted switch mode rectifier. Plus you lose energy in the conversion process, more loss than the charge and discharge cycles of batts. - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power http://www.fuelcells.org/basics/types.html I have been looking at doing the same. The cost/benefit ratio just is not there yet from what I have seen. Not unless you can store a very large amount of fuel and need long (months +) run times between regeneration/refueling. If I have missed something I would be very interested in looking at this again. On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I lost my reply, so I'll see what I can come up with. Smaller package for equivalent energy storage. Longer lasting equipment (batteries die in 2 - 3 years). -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power I get fuel cell magazine each month. It is full of sources. Probably an on line version. Just curious, why? Battery efficiency is just as good if not better. Bound to be much cheaper. Fuel cells make water, and that causes problems in cold weather. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power I'm looking to run electricity through a hydrogen electrolyzer, store the hydrogen, then later run it through a fuel cell as needed. Does anyone have some good sources of information or products? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
[WISPA] Hydrogen Power
I'm looking to run electricity through a hydrogen electrolyzer, store the hydrogen, then later run it through a fuel cell as needed. Does anyone have some good sources of information or products? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power
I get fuel cell magazine each month. It is full of sources. Probably an on line version. Just curious, why? Battery efficiency is just as good if not better. Bound to be much cheaper. Fuel cells make water, and that causes problems in cold weather. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 5:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Hydrogen Power I'm looking to run electricity through a hydrogen electrolyzer, store the hydrogen, then later run it through a fuel cell as needed. Does anyone have some good sources of information or products? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
