Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
(Don't respond George...if they like pimping gas so much we've got some jobs here for them!). I grew up in L.A. I have to say there's no gas pump I'M in love with. ;) -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 11:10:58 To:WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
I have to agree. :) Travis David E. Smith wrote: George wrote: I'm sure you joking about Oregon being a strange place... Any state that won't let me pump my own gas is strange in my book. :) dave -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
George wrote: > I'm sure you joking about Oregon being a strange place... Any state that won't let me pump my own gas is strange in my book. :) dave -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
David E. Smith wrote: I knew Oregon was a strange place with relatively relaxed laws, but still... I'm sure you joking about Oregon being a strange place... Oregon is a very nice place to live, one of the more livable places to live I might add. As for Internet, Oregon has one of the higher penetrations of fiber and wireless. Consider that I live 60 miles from the nearest population center and have had a fiber ethernet connection for the past 2.5 years. Oregon in the urban areas is more liberal, but in the rural areas it's very conservative and made up of fiercely independent conservative types who don't care much for government intervention or regulation. Which is why we don't have a sales tax, and probably the basis for a lot of what you hear Mark say. I'm not in favor of having to collect taxes from my customers or having to add the extra layer of overhead to my small business. I will though follow the law and fill out the form. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
I have to say I agree with Mark on this. We operate WISP's because it is unregulated for the most part. How many of us can survive if the FCC decides WISP's are now regulated? Even if none of the laws change (spectrum, EIRP, etc.) you now have to have your financials audited every single year. The last quote I got for that service from my accountant was $5,000. This is just one of the things that would change. "let's wait until we have evidence of ill intent"? What will you do then? It will be too late by then... the game will be over. The FCC has absolutely no reason to demand information from WISP's. Good thing many of them I know aren't supplying it to them. Travis David E. Smith wrote: Mark Koskenmaki wrote: When they ask you for your customer's address and IP numbers, what will you do? I see you're NOT wearing the tinfoil hat. Y'know, it works better than you might think. :D Our freedom to do business unimpeded. You mean you live somewhere without specific chunks of spectrum that you can and cannot use? Without EIRP limits? I knew Oregon was a strange place with relatively relaxed laws, but still... The fact of the matter is that WISPs are already regulated in about a jillion ways. So are most businesses, in and out of the wonderful world of telecom. This simply Is. Without the regulatory intervention you seem to fear, I wouldn't have a job, because there would be no such thing as "unlicensed spectrum." Do they need our names, addresses, zip codes, and how many individuals we have in each, reported 2X a year? Heck no. Fun fact: The form doesn't ask how many customers you have in any given ZIP code. If anyone, anywhere, reports having even one customer in a given ZIP code, as far as the FCC is concerned, everyone in that ZIP has access to broadband. Honestly, I think this is an oversight. (One that'd be a pain in the ass, because it means I'd need more than a half-hour to complete the form, but the goal of FCC477 is to get an accurate picture of broadband coverage, and in that respect it fails miserably.) Anyway. Your argument that the FCC has no legal right to request this information probably doesn't hold up. IANAL, but the form and its instructions do provide a lot of impressive-looking USC references. I've skimmed most of 'em and the law seems to be relatively clear on the point. 47 USC generally gives a lot of authority to the FCC on, well, just about everything related to telecommunications, so even your stated intent to call your Internet service something other than "Internet" probably wouldn't work too well. It certainly could be argued that the data on this form could be used for Evil, but it also could be used for Good. So kick back, enjoy the Kool-Aid, and consider waiting until you have something vaguely resembling evidence of ill intent. dave -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
- Original Message - From: "David E. Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 11:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > Mark Koskenmaki wrote: > > > When they ask you for your customer's address and IP numbers, what will > > you do? > > I see you're NOT wearing the tinfoil hat. Y'know, it works better than you > might think. :D > > > Our freedom to do business unimpeded. > > You mean you live somewhere without specific chunks of spectrum that you > can and cannot use? Without EIRP limits? I knew Oregon was a strange place > with relatively relaxed laws, but still... No, I don't have to apply to anyone to use it, I can't be told where, when, how, and to whom it can be used.I have an open framework that applies to every person and entity and we can all use or not use it, without anyone having the power to say "No you cannot". > > The fact of the matter is that WISPs are already regulated in about a > jillion ways. So are most businesses, in and out of the wonderful world of > telecom. This simply Is. Without the regulatory intervention you seem to > fear, I wouldn't have a job, because there would be no such thing as > "unlicensed spectrum." > > > Do they need our names, addresses, zip codes, and how many individuals we > > have in each, reported 2X a year? Heck no. > > Fun fact: The form doesn't ask how many customers you have in any given > ZIP code. If anyone, anywhere, reports having even one customer in a given > ZIP code, as far as the FCC is concerned, everyone in that ZIP has access > to broadband. Honestly, I think this is an oversight. (One that'd be a > pain in the ass, because it means I'd need more than a half-hour to > complete the form, but the goal of FCC477 is to get an accurate picture of > broadband coverage, and in that respect it fails miserably.) > > Anyway. > > Your argument that the FCC has no legal right to request this information > probably doesn't hold up. IANAL, but the form and its instructions do > provide a lot of impressive-looking USC references. I've skimmed most of > 'em and the law seems to be relatively clear on the point. 47 USC > generally gives a lot of authority to the FCC on, well, just about > everything related to telecommunications, so even your stated intent to > call your Internet service something other than "Internet" probably > wouldn't work too well. So, I want to see the headlines... "Internet Service Provider jailed for connecting customers". That'll get the pundits rolling. So, what, precisely, is holy about 200 kb/sec?That people above that limit fall under the FCC's jurisdiction, and those under do not? Nothing, of course. they just haven't gotten to it yet. Don't worry, theyr'e going to be asking. > > It certainly could be argued that the data on this form could be used for > Evil, but it also could be used for Good. So kick back, enjoy the > Kool-Aid, and consider waiting until you have something vaguely resembling > evidence of ill intent. When that happens, we've long ago lost our battle for survival. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - > > dave > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Gentlemen and ladies, Up her in Ontario Canada, Bell by law puts a "network" charge on "rural" phone accounts which they keep. The purpose of this money is to assist them to expand broadband into rural communities. Now I have supplied broadband to some of this community, but the charges remain. Now that is a good law. :-( Last time I checked the name and address of the person being surveyed was confidential. Purpose of the form should be simply. Do we have enough WISP's of "x" size to warrant putting aside spectrum for Wisp use, you know like tv spectrum was put aside and today is not used. Do Ham operators deliver all their daily dx'ing? So lobby to have the form changed. I knew this was coming, when in the last century, while I was "surfing" with my new 14.4 US Robotics modem, because a US gent asked me, who owned the internet, and he could not grasp the fact that nobody did. I as an ISP own/rent/lease a portal to this Internet. People pay me a small fee to have access to this internet through my portal. period. Why must I be regulated? You know communism must be alive and well, because in a capitalistic society the almighty dollar/euro/pound/buck rules supreme. Time to stop for me because I came to North America for my freedom, you people are showing me another way to restrict people's movements You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca office 905 349-2084 Emergency only Pager 905 377-6900 skype cajeptha Mark Koskenmaki wrote: - Original Message - From: "lists" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road Mark, While I can appreciate the perspective that you are coming from in your desire to not fill out the Form 477, I think you are completely off base. This is an information gathering form, not an invitation to regulation. Government needs information to put together policy. If we can't document that our industry is making some kind of impact on the digital divide and building something of value to the public, then how can we expect to get any more spectrum? This is the closest thing to a census for our industry. The census numbers are used to develop policy, define failure or success and attack or defend positions. When they ask you for your customer's address and IP numbers, what will you do? If you think that changing the name of the kind of service you offer and pretending to be ignorant of the need to fill this form out is going to be the best way for you to proceed, then you might want to consider relocating to Montana. There is a well established community there that doesn't believe in paying taxes, hoards guns and practices all kinds of anti-establishment activities. You can probably get a great deal on T. Kaczynski's cabin out there. If we are going to pick a fight with the administration, lets do it over something meaningful - not a frickin informational form! We as a country used to have spine. I see we're just lemmings. Still, I'm going to avoid that cliff at all costs. You don't consider this "meaningful"? What the bloody heck does it have to be? A nuclear bomb? That would be slightly less attention-getting to me! Matt, there is ONE and precisely ONE reason alone in this whole freaking world YOU, ME, AND EVERY OTHER INDEPDENT WISP EXISTS and that is A LACK OF REGULATION We have no other inherent advantage, and a mountain of disadvantages, that do not outweigh this one absolutely indispensibly important factor... we have freedom to do our thing. We can exist, we can compete, we can outmove, out think, out wit, and out smart our industry competitors, and there is ONE overriding factor.. Our freedom to do business unimpeded. If our message isn't that, from day one, from word one, from point 1, from bullet #1 on the powerpoint, from flyer one, from filing one, from lobbying letter one, we've entirely missed the point. If we lose that, we've lost everything worth fighting for. I don't know what this has to do with cabins in Montana, or the nutcases who try to form thier own country, or whomever you're talking about... I'm talking about THE SINGLE FACTOR that lets me be in business, and you're sounding like you think I'm clueless here... This is self-preservation, and it's about all of us. I didn't realize you people did not think this way. I didn't realize YOU DIDN"T REALIZE IT.I can freaking live without more spectrum, without USF dollars, without more power or higher EIRP limits or a million other regulatory goodies.Not as well, but I can live. I can't live if I don't have that one golden factor - freedom to o
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Mark Koskenmaki wrote: > When they ask you for your customer's address and IP numbers, what will > you do? I see you're NOT wearing the tinfoil hat. Y'know, it works better than you might think. :D > Our freedom to do business unimpeded. You mean you live somewhere without specific chunks of spectrum that you can and cannot use? Without EIRP limits? I knew Oregon was a strange place with relatively relaxed laws, but still... The fact of the matter is that WISPs are already regulated in about a jillion ways. So are most businesses, in and out of the wonderful world of telecom. This simply Is. Without the regulatory intervention you seem to fear, I wouldn't have a job, because there would be no such thing as "unlicensed spectrum." > Do they need our names, addresses, zip codes, and how many individuals we > have in each, reported 2X a year? Heck no. Fun fact: The form doesn't ask how many customers you have in any given ZIP code. If anyone, anywhere, reports having even one customer in a given ZIP code, as far as the FCC is concerned, everyone in that ZIP has access to broadband. Honestly, I think this is an oversight. (One that'd be a pain in the ass, because it means I'd need more than a half-hour to complete the form, but the goal of FCC477 is to get an accurate picture of broadband coverage, and in that respect it fails miserably.) Anyway. Your argument that the FCC has no legal right to request this information probably doesn't hold up. IANAL, but the form and its instructions do provide a lot of impressive-looking USC references. I've skimmed most of 'em and the law seems to be relatively clear on the point. 47 USC generally gives a lot of authority to the FCC on, well, just about everything related to telecommunications, so even your stated intent to call your Internet service something other than "Internet" probably wouldn't work too well. It certainly could be argued that the data on this form could be used for Evil, but it also could be used for Good. So kick back, enjoy the Kool-Aid, and consider waiting until you have something vaguely resembling evidence of ill intent. dave -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
- Original Message - From: "lists" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > Mark, > > While I can appreciate the perspective that you are coming from in your > desire to not fill out the Form 477, I think you are completely off base. > > This is an information gathering form, not an invitation to regulation. > Government needs information to put together policy. If we can't document > that our industry is making some kind of impact on the digital divide and > building something of value to the public, then how can we expect to get any > more spectrum? This is the closest thing to a census for our industry. The > census numbers are used to develop policy, define failure or success and > attack or defend positions. When they ask you for your customer's address and IP numbers, what will you do? > If you think that changing the name of the kind of service you offer and > pretending to be ignorant of the need to fill this form out is going to be > the best way for you to proceed, then you might want to consider relocating > to Montana. There is a well established community there that doesn't > believe in paying taxes, hoards guns and practices all kinds of > anti-establishment activities. You can probably get a great deal on T. > Kaczynski's cabin out there. > > If we are going to pick a fight with the administration, lets do it over > something meaningful - not a frickin informational form! We as a country used to have spine. I see we're just lemmings. Still, I'm going to avoid that cliff at all costs. You don't consider this "meaningful"? What the bloody heck does it have to be? A nuclear bomb? That would be slightly less attention-getting to me! Matt, there is ONE and precisely ONE reason alone in this whole freaking world YOU, ME, AND EVERY OTHER INDEPDENT WISP EXISTS and that is A LACK OF REGULATION We have no other inherent advantage, and a mountain of disadvantages, that do not outweigh this one absolutely indispensibly important factor... we have freedom to do our thing. We can exist, we can compete, we can outmove, out think, out wit, and out smart our industry competitors, and there is ONE overriding factor.. Our freedom to do business unimpeded. If our message isn't that, from day one, from word one, from point 1, from bullet #1 on the powerpoint, from flyer one, from filing one, from lobbying letter one, we've entirely missed the point. If we lose that, we've lost everything worth fighting for. I don't know what this has to do with cabins in Montana, or the nutcases who try to form thier own country, or whomever you're talking about... I'm talking about THE SINGLE FACTOR that lets me be in business, and you're sounding like you think I'm clueless here... This is self-preservation, and it's about all of us. I didn't realize you people did not think this way. I didn't realize YOU DIDN"T REALIZE IT.I can freaking live without more spectrum, without USF dollars, without more power or higher EIRP limits or a million other regulatory goodies.Not as well, but I can live. I can't live if I don't have that one golden factor - freedom to operate unhindered by mandates, regulations, etc. Our efforts in Washington are nothing but academics, or feel-good politics, if we do not stress that ABOVE ALL OTHER THINGS... And never give in, that our freedom is not up for negotiation, not for discussion, not for dilution, and certainly not to be trusted to the good intentions of any agency. Powell recognized and spoke to it, all of us talk about it regularly and sort of off-hand in our discussions of the pains and agony to be a CLEC, the sudden and near cataclysmic disruptions of the CLEC business world by small court decisions.Inherently, I hope we ALL grasp this one thing... That our lack of regulatory intervention is pretty much the one thing this industry cannot even exist without. That doesn't mean that everyone seems to be focused on it, however. It seems we lose sight of this rather fast, when a carrot of a few federal dollars swings by. I've been in the "want to be on my own and in my own business" mode for well more than a decade. The #1 factor was freedom to do as I saw fit. You're all acting as if this is just my political alter ego talking. Heck no, this is my business radar, the one that goes off like a nuclear bomb everytime I start seeing people wanting or even expecting the only thing that makes what i want to do possible to just go away, and act like it's inevitable. Yeah, I'm a political junkie, no problem admitting that, but this is purely about business self-preservation. I don't
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Mark, While I can appreciate the perspective that you are coming from in your desire to not fill out the Form 477, I think you are completely off base. This is an information gathering form, not an invitation to regulation. Government needs information to put together policy. If we can't document that our industry is making some kind of impact on the digital divide and building something of value to the public, then how can we expect to get any more spectrum? This is the closest thing to a census for our industry. The census numbers are used to develop policy, define failure or success and attack or defend positions. If you think that changing the name of the kind of service you offer and pretending to be ignorant of the need to fill this form out is going to be the best way for you to proceed, then you might want to consider relocating to Montana. There is a well established community there that doesn't believe in paying taxes, hoards guns and practices all kinds of anti-establishment activities. You can probably get a great deal on T. Kaczynski's cabin out there. If we are going to pick a fight with the administration, lets do it over something meaningful - not a frickin informational form! Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark Koskenmaki writes: - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road Mark, I know what you think about the government and that it will not change. I am no different than you in my belief that a hands off approach is best. I mean that wholeheartedly. There is one distinct difference between you and me. I have resolved myself to know that the government has made the Internet and broadband a policy issue in all branches and at all levels. I see state and federal laws being made, judicial cases being tried in court, loans and grants issued and mandates being executed every single day. In short, the battle you are trying to fight is lost. I don't think all is lost... not yet. I've been trying to make the point there's STILL a long ways downhill... Let's start resisting. I will never tell you that you are not entitled to believe what you want and take whatever stand you feel is justified so long as it does not harm me or others. However, I will not accept your position as a direction for my company and I will oppose it within the WISPA organization because I believe your attempts to ignore FCC requirements are dangerous and anti-productive to our efforts to interface with the government to make sure policy interests are represented on behalf of the WISP industry. I've not advocated "ignoring" them. I am advocating we collectively tell the FCC that is NOT proper for them to demand that much detail of our businesses and customers, since they do NOT regulate our access, operation, etc. They have no legal oversight, in my view, and we should make this clear to them. That is the precise opposite of "ignoring" them. That's taking proactive action and doing what we're here to do... tell THEM what we think! As far as this goes, I would happily give this info to WISPA, and support WISPA's gathering of demographic info that the FCC seems to want, as an alternative to federal intrusion. Just so long as what I consider to be confidential information doesn't go anywhere else, I"m fine with it. Ignoring and accusing those you wish to influence is bad politics, Mark. Yes, it is. Why are you accusing me, then, of things I have not done? That is why I am aggressively countering your position on this publicly. I personally wish that your snubbing of the FCC was done outside of WISPA public list servers. Really. If it can't even be asked and debated, what people think about the idea, then WISPA long ago lost its purpose, before it got started.This, after all, IS a public list, and if people cannot air what they think of something here, then nowhere can it be done to any purpose, and apparently, from now on, WISPA lists are only for non-disagreeing-with-John-Scrivener-conversations?I don't think you intend that. So let's not get carried away. That WISPA members vehemently disagree with something the FCC took upon itself to do SHOULD be a matter of public record. And if the membership wants, an official position by WISPA should probably be publicly made, as well. This is MY position though so do as you please for now. Take heed that I will lobby for your public stance of breaking the law to become a basis for punitive action within WISPA in the future if a majority within this organization agree with me. If all of WISPA thinks we should allow the list to be used to So, if I rename my services, and call it something other than broadband access,
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
- Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > Mark, > I know what you think about the government and that it will not change. > I am no different than you in my belief that a hands off approach is > best. I mean that wholeheartedly. There is one distinct difference > between you and me. I have resolved myself to know that the government > has made the Internet and broadband a policy issue in all branches and > at all levels. I see state and federal laws being made, judicial cases > being tried in court, loans and grants issued and mandates being > executed every single day. In short, the battle you are trying to fight > is lost. I don't think all is lost... not yet. I've been trying to make the point there's STILL a long ways downhill... Let's start resisting. I will never tell you that you are not entitled to believe what > you want and take whatever stand you feel is justified so long as it > does not harm me or others. However, I will not accept your position as > a direction for my company and I will oppose it within the WISPA > organization because I believe your attempts to ignore FCC requirements > are dangerous and anti-productive to our efforts to interface with the > government to make sure policy interests are represented on behalf of > the WISP industry. I've not advocated "ignoring" them. I am advocating we collectively tell the FCC that is NOT proper for them to demand that much detail of our businesses and customers, since they do NOT regulate our access, operation, etc. They have no legal oversight, in my view, and we should make this clear to them. That is the precise opposite of "ignoring" them. That's taking proactive action and doing what we're here to do... tell THEM what we think! As far as this goes, I would happily give this info to WISPA, and support WISPA's gathering of demographic info that the FCC seems to want, as an alternative to federal intrusion. Just so long as what I consider to be confidential information doesn't go anywhere else, I"m fine with it. Ignoring and accusing those you wish to influence is > bad politics, Mark. Yes, it is. Why are you accusing me, then, of things I have not done? That is why I am aggressively countering your > position on this publicly. I personally wish that your snubbing of the > FCC was done outside of WISPA public list servers. Really. If it can't even be asked and debated, what people think about the idea, then WISPA long ago lost its purpose, before it got started.This, after all, IS a public list, and if people cannot air what they think of something here, then nowhere can it be done to any purpose, and apparently, from now on, WISPA lists are only for non-disagreeing-with-John-Scrivener-conversations?I don't think you intend that. So let's not get carried away. That WISPA members vehemently disagree with something the FCC took upon itself to do SHOULD be a matter of public record. And if the membership wants, an official position by WISPA should probably be publicly made, as well. This is MY position > though so do as you please for now. Take heed that I will lobby for your > public stance of breaking the law to become a basis for punitive action > within WISPA in the future if a majority within this organization agree > with me. If all of WISPA thinks we should allow the list to be used to So, if I rename my services, and call it something other than broadband access, or I define my services so they do not require reporting under current rules, you'll ask to have me be removed. Interesting twist. > lobby for people to break the law then my days here will be numbered. I > will not be a party to your "tea" party over filling out a broadband > registration form or any other conspiracy driven stance toward breaking > the law. I have not, I repeat NOT advocated breaking the law. Nowhere have I said "Nobody should fill this out". I said I would bypass the law, possibly, by simply renaming and re-focusing my services. And if the FCC steps in with attempts to regulate how I define what I do, I will simply close up shop, after telling my customers it has become illegal to serve them. I have tried to get some kind of conversation going to see what WISP's in general on the list think of the idea, and where it's going.This seems disturbing to you. Could it be that if we polled the members, a majority may not agree with you? In short Mark, I want you to stop telling people they should > break the law. This is where my question above comes in. I have NOT advocated breaking the law. I said WISPA should in effec
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
You paid your dues on June 30, 2005. If you ever have a question you can just ask me or email Dori Crow at [EMAIL PROTECTED] We send invoices out when dues are ready for payment. Scriv Tom DeReggi wrote: I have no idea if I paid my dues. Its an accounting research task to find out. Does WISPA have a way to provide that info easilly to their subscribers? In other words a billing or subscription tracking system, to notify members when amounts due? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I paid my Dues. Tom DeReggi wrote: The fiction is not a reason to bail. The fiction is a great tool to demonstrate why we need to be on our toes and not taking NOT lobbying lightly. We need to stay active, so that Fiction doesn;t become reality. Its not so far from possible. This work of Fiction, is a fantastic example of why groups like WISPA need to exist and flourish. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road Mark, When in business one of the first things you have to do is deal with reality not the ramblings of a piece of fiction! If this *fictional* piece of work is enough to make you want to bail, they you should get out and get a real job. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that if you have the time to dig that junk up in the first place you're not doing enough sales work! Get your tush out from behind your desk and out in front of potential customers. I've been an ISP since '97. There were two groups back then too. Some who said I'd not stand a chance, everyone else had more money, more brains, and better plans. And those that said, go for it, if they can do it, you can do it. I choose to believe that I'm as good as anyone else in this industry. Sure I do things differently than some, but my situation is also different than many others. My finance level, my technical ability, my market etc. So what. Know what else is interesting? My ISP has CHANGED over the years. If I'd have resisted that change then I would indeed be gone today. Instead I embraced it, in fact in many ways I've helped CAUSE it. Some of my competitors couldn't keep up and have gone away. You're a religious man Mark. Remember this advice? Work to change the things you can, accept the things you can't. Where does your post fall into that philosophy? laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Mark Koskenmaki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] It's been a long road the following is fiction... but could it happen? = Dateline, Washington DC, August 11, 2010 Ed Duerkson, National Small Business Monthly Today, just in time to boost her presidental aspirations, Senator Clinton and the rest of the Senate voted in the Universal Information Rights bill. "This sweeping legislation is the most important act to pass Congress since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts in the sixties. Defining access to information as a right, just like the right to vote and the right to free speech will revolutionize our society." As a regular writer of this column and having followed this story for a few years, I think it's time to recap just how we got to where we are. Researching the history of internet providers has been a fascinating study. The earliest access to what was a closed system started back in the middle 90's, when a few ISP's started allowing modem access to what was a very academia oriented network. Time online was expensive, but everything online was free. And not a regulation in sight. By the late 90's, dialup was common, and faster internet connections were becoming sought after, and DSL (Digital Subscriber Line) technology was slowly rolled out in urban areas by most telephone companies, which allowed the dramatically faster - but slow by today's standards - access of at first a fraction of a megabit, and then growing to several megabit speeds. Of course, all access previous to common DSL was all by small business. Then, the pho
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
- Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > Of course they are. Anyone that thinks they can be untaxed in any modern > government run operation is kidding themselves. > Then I say, lets be the pioneers and push for something so sensible, it's radical! > You WILL be taxed at some point either way Rick. And like everyone else > you'll pass those costs along to the consumer. > > You STILL have to fill out this form! You'll be in trouble if you don't, > taxes or no taxes. Frankly, if we don't report, they won't know we're here.Which is why we should be fighting this tooth and nail, so that they don't try to impose even more ugly stuff to compell people - such as classifying ISP's the same as telcos and subject to all that regulation. > > The 477 is important if we're ever going to stand up with credibility and > claim that we need more and better spectrum AND are justified in our need > due to our numbers. It won't buy us 1 second's consideration and it only makes killing us off easier, in my view, at least. > > We don't have money for lobbyists, but we do have voters. IF the powers > that be know that we have enough it'll matter to them. > > The days of this industry being able to fly under the radar or keep our > heads in the sand are long gone. Well, i'm not interested in painting the target on my back for them, at least. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - > Marlon > (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales > (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services > 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! > 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) > www.odessaoffice.com/wireless > www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Rick Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:50 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > > > > > > I know you all will say "no, no, no!" but I'm saying "taxes, taxes, taxes > > are coming if we fill in those forms". > > > > Mark Koskenmaki wrote: > > > >>- Original Message - > >>From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>To: "WISPA General List" > >>Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:15 PM > >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > >> > >> > >> > >>>I agree with the need to register broadband operations in the US. I > >>> > >> > >>I can't imagine why. There isn't a single good thing to come from it. > >>Bribing the govenrment by giving them more than they need is > >>counterproductive. You never get what you want and you get lots you don't > >>want. > >> > >> > >>>think it needs to be done. I would not agree with using this information > >>>to do anything bad. It is a difference of opinion. > >>> > >> > >>Giving it to uncle sam is inherently bad. It is the duty of any republic > >>to keep government in check and deprived of as much money and information > >>as > >>possible.Government is not the provider of the people, it is not the > >>friend of the people. It is to be our servant and subservient to us, and > >>the one we have is violating every aspect of that notion...and now you > >>want > >>it to stray even farther into my life. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>Scriv > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > -- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Mark, I know what you think about the government and that it will not change. I am no different than you in my belief that a hands off approach is best. I mean that wholeheartedly. There is one distinct difference between you and me. I have resolved myself to know that the government has made the Internet and broadband a policy issue in all branches and at all levels. I see state and federal laws being made, judicial cases being tried in court, loans and grants issued and mandates being executed every single day. In short, the battle you are trying to fight is lost. I will never tell you that you are not entitled to believe what you want and take whatever stand you feel is justified so long as it does not harm me or others. However, I will not accept your position as a direction for my company and I will oppose it within the WISPA organization because I believe your attempts to ignore FCC requirements are dangerous and anti-productive to our efforts to interface with the government to make sure policy interests are represented on behalf of the WISP industry. Ignoring and accusing those you wish to influence is bad politics, Mark. That is why I am aggressively countering your position on this publicly. I personally wish that your snubbing of the FCC was done outside of WISPA public list servers. This is MY position though so do as you please for now. Take heed that I will lobby for your public stance of breaking the law to become a basis for punitive action within WISPA in the future if a majority within this organization agree with me. If all of WISPA thinks we should allow the list to be used to lobby for people to break the law then my days here will be numbered. I will not be a party to your "tea" party over filling out a broadband registration form or any other conspiracy driven stance toward breaking the law. In short Mark, I want you to stop telling people they should break the law. You are doing us harm and I want you to stop doing this publicly. We formed WISPA to interface with the FCC and Congress on helping direct policy, not to ignore, shun and accuse those institutions. Please stop now. Scriv Mark Koskenmaki wrote: - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road Sorry to answer my own post but it is late and I read this and thought my message may have not been clear. When I say below that your opinions on this do not count I am not referring to the context of your opinions importance within WISPA. Here your opinions always count. I was referring to what the government is looking at and what they ignore. No need to explain John. It was clear from the start. Sadly we do not have as much representation which is favorable to our industry as we had under Michael Powell and Company. The game is afoot to make life harder for us and easier for the poor ILECs. We need to be very careful going forward. Life could be very scary for those who do not have a strong foothold in their business. It may even be quite scary for those of us who have a strong hold. Asking for the government to stay out of our business now is like asking the biker to leave your daughter alone as she is driving off down the road on the back of the Harley. I hope my position in all this makes a little more sense now. Maybe. But I'm still going to tell the biker he better behave. The question I have for you is... In two years, when your filing at the FCC includes the addresses and IP numbers of every customer over 200Kb/s, what will you do? Will you go along, or will you suddenly find religion and start a fight you surrendered already? As for me, I will be eventually changing my service descriptions to remove all references to "broadband" and there will won't be a "kb/sec" designation. And if the FCC asks, I do not offer "broadband internet". I will have alternative service descriptions. "Gateway services" has a nice ring. Or maybe I'll offer free ( no cost to me content ) streaming video services and call my service "wireless video" and it just happens to gateway you to the internet. My business name does not have an internet reference. I'll gladly alter wording for the rest, as well. Of course, this will eventually mean that the FCC will start mandating network practices and defining and regulating connectivity.Maybe it'll buy me a few years before I have to sell to Qwest or Sprint, but I will NEVER comply with such an intrusive thing. I'll "game" them if I have to, and if they regulate it this tight, I'm gone. I just hope to God that WISPA's on our side, not the government's. Scriv John Scrivner wrote: -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
I have no idea if I paid my dues. Its an accounting research task to find out. Does WISPA have a way to provide that info easilly to their subscribers? In other words a billing or subscription tracking system, to notify members when amounts due? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I paid my Dues. Tom DeReggi wrote: The fiction is not a reason to bail. The fiction is a great tool to demonstrate why we need to be on our toes and not taking NOT lobbying lightly. We need to stay active, so that Fiction doesn;t become reality. Its not so far from possible. This work of Fiction, is a fantastic example of why groups like WISPA need to exist and flourish. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road Mark, When in business one of the first things you have to do is deal with reality not the ramblings of a piece of fiction! If this *fictional* piece of work is enough to make you want to bail, they you should get out and get a real job. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that if you have the time to dig that junk up in the first place you're not doing enough sales work! Get your tush out from behind your desk and out in front of potential customers. I've been an ISP since '97. There were two groups back then too. Some who said I'd not stand a chance, everyone else had more money, more brains, and better plans. And those that said, go for it, if they can do it, you can do it. I choose to believe that I'm as good as anyone else in this industry. Sure I do things differently than some, but my situation is also different than many others. My finance level, my technical ability, my market etc. So what. Know what else is interesting? My ISP has CHANGED over the years. If I'd have resisted that change then I would indeed be gone today. Instead I embraced it, in fact in many ways I've helped CAUSE it. Some of my competitors couldn't keep up and have gone away. You're a religious man Mark. Remember this advice? Work to change the things you can, accept the things you can't. Where does your post fall into that philosophy? laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message ----- From: "Mark Koskenmaki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] It's been a long road the following is fiction... but could it happen? = Dateline, Washington DC, August 11, 2010 Ed Duerkson, National Small Business Monthly Today, just in time to boost her presidental aspirations, Senator Clinton and the rest of the Senate voted in the Universal Information Rights bill. "This sweeping legislation is the most important act to pass Congress since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts in the sixties. Defining access to information as a right, just like the right to vote and the right to free speech will revolutionize our society." As a regular writer of this column and having followed this story for a few years, I think it's time to recap just how we got to where we are. Researching the history of internet providers has been a fascinating study. The earliest access to what was a closed system started back in the middle 90's, when a few ISP's started allowing modem access to what was a very academia oriented network. Time online was expensive, but everything online was free. And not a regulation in sight. By the late 90's, dialup was common, and faster internet connections were becoming sought after, and DSL (Digital Subscriber Line) technology was slowly rolled out in urban areas by most telephone companies, which allowed the dramatically faster - but slow by today's standards - access of at first a fraction of a megabit, and then growing to several megabit speeds. Of course, all access previous to common DSL was all by small business. Then, the phone companies saw the light and began thier own internet access offerings. They owned DSL for the most part, and moved into the wholesale, or commodity, dialup business. Striking down the telecommunications act by the courts a fe
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
I paid my Dues. Tom DeReggi wrote: The fiction is not a reason to bail. The fiction is a great tool to demonstrate why we need to be on our toes and not taking NOT lobbying lightly. We need to stay active, so that Fiction doesn;t become reality. Its not so far from possible. This work of Fiction, is a fantastic example of why groups like WISPA need to exist and flourish. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road Mark, When in business one of the first things you have to do is deal with reality not the ramblings of a piece of fiction! If this *fictional* piece of work is enough to make you want to bail, they you should get out and get a real job. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that if you have the time to dig that junk up in the first place you're not doing enough sales work! Get your tush out from behind your desk and out in front of potential customers. I've been an ISP since '97. There were two groups back then too. Some who said I'd not stand a chance, everyone else had more money, more brains, and better plans. And those that said, go for it, if they can do it, you can do it. I choose to believe that I'm as good as anyone else in this industry. Sure I do things differently than some, but my situation is also different than many others. My finance level, my technical ability, my market etc. So what. Know what else is interesting? My ISP has CHANGED over the years. If I'd have resisted that change then I would indeed be gone today. Instead I embraced it, in fact in many ways I've helped CAUSE it. Some of my competitors couldn't keep up and have gone away. You're a religious man Mark. Remember this advice? Work to change the things you can, accept the things you can't. Where does your post fall into that philosophy? laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Mark Koskenmaki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] It's been a long road the following is fiction... but could it happen? = Dateline, Washington DC, August 11, 2010 Ed Duerkson, National Small Business Monthly Today, just in time to boost her presidental aspirations, Senator Clinton and the rest of the Senate voted in the Universal Information Rights bill. "This sweeping legislation is the most important act to pass Congress since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts in the sixties. Defining access to information as a right, just like the right to vote and the right to free speech will revolutionize our society." As a regular writer of this column and having followed this story for a few years, I think it's time to recap just how we got to where we are. Researching the history of internet providers has been a fascinating study. The earliest access to what was a closed system started back in the middle 90's, when a few ISP's started allowing modem access to what was a very academia oriented network. Time online was expensive, but everything online was free. And not a regulation in sight. By the late 90's, dialup was common, and faster internet connections were becoming sought after, and DSL (Digital Subscriber Line) technology was slowly rolled out in urban areas by most telephone companies, which allowed the dramatically faster - but slow by today's standards - access of at first a fraction of a megabit, and then growing to several megabit speeds. Of course, all access previous to common DSL was all by small business. Then, the phone companies saw the light and began thier own internet access offerings. They owned DSL for the most part, and moved into the wholesale, or commodity, dialup business. Striking down the telecommunications act by the courts a few years later gave them a leg up on gaining market share. Most of this market share seemed to be at the expense of ISP's. By the middle of this last decade, DSL was available to well more than half of the population - and with the advent of commodity priced equipment, it rapidly spread to around 80%. Cable was hot, as well, providing 'net access to large areas and bundled with tv and eventually, VOIP offerings. Then, fiber slowly began to be deployed. With good speeds, and a permanence of presence, fiber final
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
The fiction is not a reason to bail. The fiction is a great tool to demonstrate why we need to be on our toes and not taking NOT lobbying lightly. We need to stay active, so that Fiction doesn;t become reality. Its not so far from possible. This work of Fiction, is a fantastic example of why groups like WISPA need to exist and flourish. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road Mark, When in business one of the first things you have to do is deal with reality not the ramblings of a piece of fiction! If this *fictional* piece of work is enough to make you want to bail, they you should get out and get a real job. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that if you have the time to dig that junk up in the first place you're not doing enough sales work! Get your tush out from behind your desk and out in front of potential customers. I've been an ISP since '97. There were two groups back then too. Some who said I'd not stand a chance, everyone else had more money, more brains, and better plans. And those that said, go for it, if they can do it, you can do it. I choose to believe that I'm as good as anyone else in this industry. Sure I do things differently than some, but my situation is also different than many others. My finance level, my technical ability, my market etc. So what. Know what else is interesting? My ISP has CHANGED over the years. If I'd have resisted that change then I would indeed be gone today. Instead I embraced it, in fact in many ways I've helped CAUSE it. Some of my competitors couldn't keep up and have gone away. You're a religious man Mark. Remember this advice? Work to change the things you can, accept the things you can't. Where does your post fall into that philosophy? laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Mark Koskenmaki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] It's been a long road the following is fiction... but could it happen? = Dateline, Washington DC, August 11, 2010 Ed Duerkson, National Small Business Monthly Today, just in time to boost her presidental aspirations, Senator Clinton and the rest of the Senate voted in the Universal Information Rights bill. "This sweeping legislation is the most important act to pass Congress since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts in the sixties. Defining access to information as a right, just like the right to vote and the right to free speech will revolutionize our society." As a regular writer of this column and having followed this story for a few years, I think it's time to recap just how we got to where we are. Researching the history of internet providers has been a fascinating study. The earliest access to what was a closed system started back in the middle 90's, when a few ISP's started allowing modem access to what was a very academia oriented network. Time online was expensive, but everything online was free. And not a regulation in sight. By the late 90's, dialup was common, and faster internet connections were becoming sought after, and DSL (Digital Subscriber Line) technology was slowly rolled out in urban areas by most telephone companies, which allowed the dramatically faster - but slow by today's standards - access of at first a fraction of a megabit, and then growing to several megabit speeds. Of course, all access previous to common DSL was all by small business. Then, the phone companies saw the light and began thier own internet access offerings. They owned DSL for the most part, and moved into the wholesale, or commodity, dialup business. Striking down the telecommunications act by the courts a few years later gave them a leg up on gaining market share. Most of this market share seemed to be at the expense of ISP's. By the middle of this last decade, DSL was available to well more than half of the population - and with the advent of commodity priced equipment, it rapidly spread to around 80%. Cable was hot, as well, providing 'net access to large areas and bundled with tv and eventually, VOIP offerings. Then, fiber slowly began to be deployed. With good speeds, and a permanence of presence, fiber finally began to penetrate urban areas. But with hig
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
The problem is, it costs what it costs, and can you take the risk of financing your customer, in a competitive enviroment, where you could loose the client on any given day to competitors? Its not worth the risk to me. Another way to approach the problem is the give free install, but make them pay upfront for the year. No buddy cancels a service they've already paid for, and doesn't add cost for them to keep using it during that term. That principle worked well for DialUP. $9 a month for a 2 year contract. Few people flinched, most people called it a benefit, because it cost them more than $9 a month in time to write and mail a check every month. I'm never going to finance the costs to get people installed, in a competitive market, without a QUICK ROI for doing so, its jsut to risky. I'd finance Hardware in a heart beat, it can be reused, and its value secures the financed dollar amount. The customer has got to put skin in the game upfront, or they got you buy the balls. They'll change in a heart beat. I believe a level playing field needs to be created for the provider/subscriber relationship. It fair to say, in order to collect your monthly fee every month, I'm going to have to provide you good service every month, so you keep subscribing. But its not fair to say, I (provider) invested $200, and if I don't do every thing you (customer) asks, you (customer) are going to cancel and screw me out of my $200 investment. There is a time and cost to isntall labor, you need to make sure you will be able to recover that cost upfront, or you are in a risk situation. You can reword it anyway you want to the customer, as long as at the end you are taken care of. For example, What if you said you were going to charge them $200 for a down payment on the lease hardware, and give them free install labor. Well, you could get a lease that did not require a down payment, and put the down payment in your pocket instead to pay for labor. Then gear gets financed in full. Thats a doable cash flow model. If a customer won;t pay your costs with a prompot ROI, you need to get in another business or market, is my personal opinion. There is nothing wrong with getting your compensation over time, as long as it is guaranteed that you will get that compensation over time. If there is a two year ROI, and you have a 2 year Contract, that may be good enough to protect you, but is it? If the broke the contract, what would you do about it? Go to court or collection, over $200? Not likely. Investment and risk, ONLY should be taken if matched with equal potential. If the investment was for a 100 user complex, well, the odds are now better the ROI will come and worth the investment. I sympathise, that $200 install may deter prospects. You got to find a way to get it. The only thing that has worked for me in those situations is given free years of service with it, as a REBATE, or made them pay upfront for the year when I waived install fees. But even then, I'd tack on an extra $10 a month to cover the rental fee of the equipment. Or even if it was pay upfront for first 6 months, that may be enough to reduce liabilty, if you lock them into a 1 year contract, or add a disconnect fee in the terms. What I do is I turn away the work that doesn't pay my target work, and then if there is a day, that my guys have nothing to do, (they are on salary), I go down the list of cheap prospects and tell them I am doing a 1 day special for free install, if they take it today. Sometimes I tell those clients that I have a 30 install period, and they will be called within 3 weeks to schedule install. And give them 24 hours notice when I can come. People who pay the price get sent to the front of the list, and usually get installed within 48 hours. Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: chris cooper To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 'WISPA General List' Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] It's been a long road Blair- We are in a mostly rural area. The city has cable and Dsl. What type of penetration are you getting out in rural areas? Do you have any ideas what type of household incomes your rural customers have? $199 install would make most of our customers choke I think. What MRC pricepoint seems to work best for you? Chris Cooper Intelliwave, LLC -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair DavisSent: Friday, February 03, 2006 9:52 AMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road That's right. I have done it.And in a rural area where most of the high density areas have cable or dsl.Kurt Fankhauser wrote:You sound like some democrat liv
RE: [WISPA] It's been a long road
It might be a hard sell to get folks out to the polls for an issue like this. Now if you could maybe spin it something like this - two radios with the same type of connectors want to live in the same enclosure and have access to the exact same power that other radios do- then maybe you might get a huge turnout. Just a thought. C We don't have money for lobbyists, but we do have voters. IF the powers that be know that we have enough it'll matter to them. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Mark, When in business one of the first things you have to do is deal with reality not the ramblings of a piece of fiction! If this *fictional* piece of work is enough to make you want to bail, they you should get out and get a real job. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that if you have the time to dig that junk up in the first place you're not doing enough sales work! Get your tush out from behind your desk and out in front of potential customers. I've been an ISP since '97. There were two groups back then too. Some who said I'd not stand a chance, everyone else had more money, more brains, and better plans. And those that said, go for it, if they can do it, you can do it. I choose to believe that I'm as good as anyone else in this industry. Sure I do things differently than some, but my situation is also different than many others. My finance level, my technical ability, my market etc. So what. Know what else is interesting? My ISP has CHANGED over the years. If I'd have resisted that change then I would indeed be gone today. Instead I embraced it, in fact in many ways I've helped CAUSE it. Some of my competitors couldn't keep up and have gone away. You're a religious man Mark. Remember this advice? Work to change the things you can, accept the things you can't. Where does your post fall into that philosophy? laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Mark Koskenmaki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] It's been a long road the following is fiction... but could it happen? = Dateline, Washington DC, August 11, 2010 Ed Duerkson, National Small Business Monthly Today, just in time to boost her presidental aspirations, Senator Clinton and the rest of the Senate voted in the Universal Information Rights bill. "This sweeping legislation is the most important act to pass Congress since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts in the sixties. Defining access to information as a right, just like the right to vote and the right to free speech will revolutionize our society." As a regular writer of this column and having followed this story for a few years, I think it's time to recap just how we got to where we are. Researching the history of internet providers has been a fascinating study. The earliest access to what was a closed system started back in the middle 90's, when a few ISP's started allowing modem access to what was a very academia oriented network. Time online was expensive, but everything online was free. And not a regulation in sight. By the late 90's, dialup was common, and faster internet connections were becoming sought after, and DSL (Digital Subscriber Line) technology was slowly rolled out in urban areas by most telephone companies, which allowed the dramatically faster - but slow by today's standards - access of at first a fraction of a megabit, and then growing to several megabit speeds. Of course, all access previous to common DSL was all by small business. Then, the phone companies saw the light and began thier own internet access offerings. They owned DSL for the most part, and moved into the wholesale, or commodity, dialup business. Striking down the telecommunications act by the courts a few years later gave them a leg up on gaining market share. Most of this market share seemed to be at the expense of ISP's. By the middle of this last decade, DSL was available to well more than half of the population - and with the advent of commodity priced equipment, it rapidly spread to around 80%. Cable was hot, as well, providing 'net access to large areas and bundled with tv and eventually, VOIP offerings. Then, fiber slowly began to be deployed. With good speeds, and a permanence of presence, fiber finally began to penetrate urban areas. But with high costs of deployment, somewhat costly maintenance, fiber was relatlively expensive for residential use. So, you say, what happened to those areas NOT covered by DSL and fiber? Some had nothing other than dialup. Wireless providers grew expansively in the early and middle part of the decade. No license costs, almost no regulation, and the advent of inexpensive and relatively fast wireless equipment and technologies made wireless a bright star. It, too, however, had moderate infrastructure costs, and it did not cover everywhere. Satellite was a somewhat less than stellar, but very universally available version of broadband. Performance
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Of course they are. Anyone that thinks they can be untaxed in any modern government run operation is kidding themselves. You WILL be taxed at some point either way Rick. And like everyone else you'll pass those costs along to the consumer. You STILL have to fill out this form! You'll be in trouble if you don't, taxes or no taxes. The 477 is important if we're ever going to stand up with credibility and claim that we need more and better spectrum AND are justified in our need due to our numbers. We don't have money for lobbyists, but we do have voters. IF the powers that be know that we have enough it'll matter to them. The days of this industry being able to fly under the radar or keep our heads in the sand are long gone. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Rick Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I know you all will say "no, no, no!" but I'm saying "taxes, taxes, taxes are coming if we fill in those forms". Mark Koskenmaki wrote: - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I agree with the need to register broadband operations in the US. I I can't imagine why. There isn't a single good thing to come from it. Bribing the govenrment by giving them more than they need is counterproductive. You never get what you want and you get lots you don't want. think it needs to be done. I would not agree with using this information to do anything bad. It is a difference of opinion. Giving it to uncle sam is inherently bad. It is the duty of any republic to keep government in check and deprived of as much money and information as possible.Government is not the provider of the people, it is not the friend of the people. It is to be our servant and subservient to us, and the one we have is violating every aspect of that notion...and now you want it to stray even farther into my life. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Mark Koskenmaki wrote: The question I have for you is... In two years, when your filing at the FCC includes the addresses and IP numbers of every customer over 200Kb/s, what will you do? Hey, did you know tinfoil makes a really good hat? As for me, I will be eventually changing my service descriptions to remove all references to "broadband" and there will won't be a "kb/sec" designation. And if the FCC asks, I do not offer "broadband internet". This is just awesomely silly. First, in order for that to be even vaguely plausible, you'll have to find a way to market your broadband Internet service without using the words "broadband," "Internet," "high-speed," "information superhighway," or "Al Gore." And without something that pretty clearly says WHAT you're selling, nobody will be buying. This may cleverly eliminate the problem by putting you out of business, but I don't think that's quite the endgame you had in mind. Second, puh-leeze, give the FCC a little credit. They're not gonna buy your argument that you're not selling Internet service any more than the IRS buys the thousands of arguments a year about the 16th Amendment having never been properly ratified. David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Blair- We are in a mostly rural area. The city has cable and Dsl. What type of penetration are you getting out in rural areas? Do you have any ideas what type of household incomes your rural customers have? $199 install would make most of our customers choke I think. What MRC pricepoint seems to work best for you? Chris Cooper Intelliwave, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 9:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road That's right. I have done it. And in a rural area where most of the high density areas have cable or dsl. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: You sound like some democrat living in suburbia, gimmie gimmie gimmie, Iwant all this free money but don't want to pay taxes. You can build asuccessful WISP without having some sort of handout. Kurt FankhauserWAVELINC114 S. Walnut St.Bucyrus, OH 44820419-562-6405www.wavelinc.com -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] OnBehalf Of Rick SmithSent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:51 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I know you all will say "no, no, no!" but I'm saying "taxes, taxes, taxes are coming if we fill in those forms". Mark Koskenmaki wrote: - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:15 PMSubject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I agree with the need to register broadband operations in the US. I I can't imagine why. There isn't a single good thing to come from it.Bribing the govenrment by giving them more than they need iscounterproductive. You never get what you want and you get lots you don't want. think it needs to be done. I would not agree with using this information to do anything bad. It is a difference of opinion. Giving it to uncle sam is inherently bad. It is the duty of any republic to keep government in check and deprived of as much money and information as possible. Government is not the provider of the people, it is not the friend of the people. It is to be our servant and subservient to us, and the one we have is violating every aspect of that notion...and now you want it to stray even farther into my life. Scriv -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP269-686-8648 A division of:Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
For some reason, the list server clipped off the first line of my message. This is a re-send. Of course taxes are coming. Form 477 is how they will know who to go after when we are forced to collect for the USF. And I don't see why they should be able to tax me for the USF anyway. I built my network with my own money. Unlike the ILEC's. No government money or assistance here. Well, some local assistance I have agreements with 2 cites providing them with free service in return for good antenna locations. But I can and do argue that they are no different that the farmers that I give service to for placing antennas on grain legs. Becoming part of the USF system will be a disaster for the small WISP. Rick Smith wrote: I know you all will say "no, no, no!" but I'm saying "taxes, taxes, taxes are coming if we fill in those forms". Mark Koskenmaki wrote: - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I agree with the need to register broadband operations in the US. I I can't imagine why. There isn't a single good thing to come from it. Bribing the govenrment by giving them more than they need is counterproductive. You never get what you want and you get lots you don't want. think it needs to be done. I would not agree with using this information to do anything bad. It is a difference of opinion. Giving it to uncle sam is inherently bad. It is the duty of any republic to keep government in check and deprived of as much money and information as possible.Government is not the provider of the people, it is not the friend of the people. It is to be our servant and subservient to us, and the one we have is violating every aspect of that notion...and now you want it to stray even farther into my life. Scriv -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
That's right. I have done it. And in a rural area where most of the high density areas have cable or dsl. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: You sound like some democrat living in suburbia, gimmie gimmie gimmie, I want all this free money but don't want to pay taxes. You can build a successful WISP without having some sort of handout. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I know you all will say "no, no, no!" but I'm saying "taxes, taxes, taxes are coming if we fill in those forms". Mark Koskenmaki wrote: - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I agree with the need to register broadband operations in the US. I I can't imagine why. There isn't a single good thing to come from it. Bribing the govenrment by giving them more than they need is counterproductive. You never get what you want and you get lots you don't want. think it needs to be done. I would not agree with using this information to do anything bad. It is a difference of opinion. Giving it to uncle sam is inherently bad. It is the duty of any republic to keep government in check and deprived of as much money and information as possible.Government is not the provider of the people, it is not the friend of the people. It is to be our servant and subservient to us, and the one we have is violating every aspect of that notion...and now you want it to stray even farther into my life. Scriv -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Of course taxes are coming. Form 477 is how they will know who to go after when we are forced to collect for the USF. And I don't see why they should be able to tax me for the USF anyway. I built my network with my own money. Unlike the ILEC's. No government money or assistance here. Well, some local assistance I have agreements with 2 cites providing them with free service in return for good antenna locations. But I can and do argue that they are no different that the farmers that I give service to for placing antennas on grain legs. Becoming part of the USF system will be a disaster for the small WISP. Rick Smith wrote: I know you all will say "no, no, no!" but I'm saying "taxes, taxes, taxes are coming if we fill in those forms". Mark Koskenmaki wrote: - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I agree with the need to register broadband operations in the US. I I can't imagine why. There isn't a single good thing to come from it. Bribing the govenrment by giving them more than they need is counterproductive. You never get what you want and you get lots you don't want. think it needs to be done. I would not agree with using this information to do anything bad. It is a difference of opinion. Giving it to uncle sam is inherently bad. It is the duty of any republic to keep government in check and deprived of as much money and information as possible.Government is not the provider of the people, it is not the friend of the people. It is to be our servant and subservient to us, and the one we have is violating every aspect of that notion...and now you want it to stray even farther into my life. Scriv -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
- Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > Sorry to answer my own post but it is late and I read this and thought > my message may have not been clear. When I say below that your opinions > on this do not count I am not referring to the context of your opinions > importance within WISPA. Here your opinions always count. I was > referring to what the government is looking at and what they ignore. No need to explain John. It was clear from the start. > Sadly we do not have as much representation which is favorable to our > industry as we had under Michael Powell and Company. The game is afoot > to make life harder for us and easier for the poor ILECs. We need to be > very careful going forward. Life could be very scary for those who do > not have a strong foothold in their business. It may even be quite scary > for those of us who have a strong hold. Asking for the government to > stay out of our business now is like asking the biker to leave your > daughter alone as she is driving off down the road on the back of the > Harley. I hope my position in all this makes a little more sense now. Maybe. But I'm still going to tell the biker he better behave. The question I have for you is... In two years, when your filing at the FCC includes the addresses and IP numbers of every customer over 200Kb/s, what will you do? Will you go along, or will you suddenly find religion and start a fight you surrendered already? As for me, I will be eventually changing my service descriptions to remove all references to "broadband" and there will won't be a "kb/sec" designation. And if the FCC asks, I do not offer "broadband internet". I will have alternative service descriptions. "Gateway services" has a nice ring. Or maybe I'll offer free ( no cost to me content ) streaming video services and call my service "wireless video" and it just happens to gateway you to the internet. My business name does not have an internet reference. I'll gladly alter wording for the rest, as well. Of course, this will eventually mean that the FCC will start mandating network practices and defining and regulating connectivity.Maybe it'll buy me a few years before I have to sell to Qwest or Sprint, but I will NEVER comply with such an intrusive thing. I'll "game" them if I have to, and if they regulate it this tight, I'm gone. I just hope to God that WISPA's on our side, not the government's. > Scriv > > > John Scrivner wrote: > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
- Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > Last time I checked, the USDA and other government organizations do not > care whether you guys want government subsidies/regulations or not. They > are coming. The real question is this, who is going to get the money? I disagree on this... The real question is not who gets the money... but what it will cost you to get it. What regulatory burdens will it cost us? Will the efforts by a few to get it result in all of us getting expensive regulations imposed? Believe me, the telcos are jumping with glee at the idea of us getting burdened by thier load. They want our business advantages gone, and the idea of jumping into the USF game and not resisting the notion that broadband connections are illegal unless "registered" with the FCC is just one more nail in our coffins. We will NEVER "win" by "playing the game", we'll only survive if we manage to fight them off.The big money interests will win the fight, and we're not it, thus, don't play that game. Our best efforts I believe will be ones to remain unregulated, and proving that it is in the FCC's interest to keep it that way. Get the telco's money via USF? Oh, a passing interest might result in some, but if it results in me getting the regulatory burdens so a handful of us get the money... That's not something we should be for. > What will the new regulations say? The idealistic views of saying we > want government to stay out of our business is futile at this point. Why? If it's futile to say "don't regulate", then it is also futile to sign up, roll over, play dead, and invite our deaths. > Wake up and smell the special interest coffee brewing guys. The Congress > is tooling up for a telecommunications act re-write. A whole new > ballgame is about to start. If you want the policies to represent your > interests at all you better resign yourselves to knowing you have to > play ball. Otherwise your opinions on this do not count. The only interests I need is for them to stay as far away from me as possible. I don't HAVE to have USF funds, or USDA grants or auctioned spectrum. > Scriv > > > Kurt Fankhauser wrote: > > >You sound like some democrat living in suburbia, gimmie gimmie gimmie, I > >want all this free money but don't want to pay taxes. You can build a > >successful WISP without having some sort of handout. > > > >Kurt Fankhauser > >WAVELINC > >114 S. Walnut St. > >Bucyrus, OH 44820 > >419-562-6405 > >www.wavelinc.com > > > > > >-Original Message- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > >Behalf Of Rick Smith > >Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:51 PM > >To: WISPA General List > >Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > > > > > >I know you all will say "no, no, no!" but I'm saying "taxes, taxes, > >taxes are coming if we fill in those forms". > > > >Mark Koskenmaki wrote: > > > > > > > >>- Original Message - > >>From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>To: "WISPA General List" > >>Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:15 PM > >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>I agree with the need to register broadband operations in the US. I > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>I can't imagine why. There isn't a single good thing to come from it. > >>Bribing the govenrment by giving them more than they need is > >>counterproductive. You never get what you want and you get lots you > >> > >> > >don't > > > > > >>want. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>think it needs to be done. I would not agree with using this > >>> > >>> > >information > > > > > >>>to do anything bad. It is a difference of opinion. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>Giving it to uncle sam is inherently bad. It is the duty of any > >> > >> > >republic > > > > > >>to keep government in check and deprived of as much money and > >> > >> > >information as > > > > > >>possible.Government is not the provider of the people, it is not > >> > >> > >the > > > > > >>friend of the people. It is to be our servant and subservient to us, > >> > >> > >and > > > > > >>the one we have is violating every aspect of that notion...and now you > >> > >> > >want > > > > > >>it to stray even farther into my life. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>Scriv > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Sorry to answer my own post but it is late and I read this and thought my message may have not been clear. When I say below that your opinions on this do not count I am not referring to the context of your opinions importance within WISPA. Here your opinions always count. I was referring to what the government is looking at and what they ignore. Sadly we do not have as much representation which is favorable to our industry as we had under Michael Powell and Company. The game is afoot to make life harder for us and easier for the poor ILECs. We need to be very careful going forward. Life could be very scary for those who do not have a strong foothold in their business. It may even be quite scary for those of us who have a strong hold. Asking for the government to stay out of our business now is like asking the biker to leave your daughter alone as she is driving off down the road on the back of the Harley. I hope my position in all this makes a little more sense now. Scriv John Scrivner wrote: Last time I checked, the USDA and other government organizations do not care whether you guys want government subsidies/regulations or not. They are coming. The real question is this, who is going to get the money? What will the new regulations say? The idealistic views of saying we want government to stay out of our business is futile at this point. Wake up and smell the special interest coffee brewing guys. The Congress is tooling up for a telecommunications act re-write. A whole new ballgame is about to start. If you want the policies to represent your interests at all you better resign yourselves to knowing you have to play ball. Otherwise your opinions on this do not count. Scriv Kurt Fankhauser wrote: You sound like some democrat living in suburbia, gimmie gimmie gimmie, I want all this free money but don't want to pay taxes. You can build a successful WISP without having some sort of handout. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I know you all will say "no, no, no!" but I'm saying "taxes, taxes, taxes are coming if we fill in those forms". Mark Koskenmaki wrote: - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I agree with the need to register broadband operations in the US. I I can't imagine why. There isn't a single good thing to come from it. Bribing the govenrment by giving them more than they need is counterproductive. You never get what you want and you get lots you don't want. think it needs to be done. I would not agree with using this information to do anything bad. It is a difference of opinion. Giving it to uncle sam is inherently bad. It is the duty of any republic to keep government in check and deprived of as much money and information as possible.Government is not the provider of the people, it is not the friend of the people. It is to be our servant and subservient to us, and the one we have is violating every aspect of that notion...and now you want it to stray even farther into my life. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Last time I checked, the USDA and other government organizations do not care whether you guys want government subsidies/regulations or not. They are coming. The real question is this, who is going to get the money? What will the new regulations say? The idealistic views of saying we want government to stay out of our business is futile at this point. Wake up and smell the special interest coffee brewing guys. The Congress is tooling up for a telecommunications act re-write. A whole new ballgame is about to start. If you want the policies to represent your interests at all you better resign yourselves to knowing you have to play ball. Otherwise your opinions on this do not count. Scriv Kurt Fankhauser wrote: You sound like some democrat living in suburbia, gimmie gimmie gimmie, I want all this free money but don't want to pay taxes. You can build a successful WISP without having some sort of handout. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I know you all will say "no, no, no!" but I'm saying "taxes, taxes, taxes are coming if we fill in those forms". Mark Koskenmaki wrote: - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I agree with the need to register broadband operations in the US. I I can't imagine why. There isn't a single good thing to come from it. Bribing the govenrment by giving them more than they need is counterproductive. You never get what you want and you get lots you don't want. think it needs to be done. I would not agree with using this information to do anything bad. It is a difference of opinion. Giving it to uncle sam is inherently bad. It is the duty of any republic to keep government in check and deprived of as much money and information as possible.Government is not the provider of the people, it is not the friend of the people. It is to be our servant and subservient to us, and the one we have is violating every aspect of that notion...and now you want it to stray even farther into my life. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Quite the contrary, I am one of those "greedy" republicans who wants to "get the money, keep the money". I never asked for anything free, and really never asked to subsidize anyone else's free crap, and I sure don't like people's hands in my pockets. I'm pretty sure I subscribe to the "if you can't do it profitably, don't do it." method. That means NO government money to run business. That's what competition and open and free marketplaces are for. i.e. screw airlines and railways, cable and dsl that all need subsidies to stick it to someone else trying to make a profit. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: You sound like some democrat living in suburbia, gimmie gimmie gimmie, I want all this free money but don't want to pay taxes. You can build a successful WISP without having some sort of handout. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I know you all will say "no, no, no!" but I'm saying "taxes, taxes, taxes are coming if we fill in those forms". Mark Koskenmaki wrote: - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I agree with the need to register broadband operations in the US. I I can't imagine why. There isn't a single good thing to come from it. Bribing the govenrment by giving them more than they need is counterproductive. You never get what you want and you get lots you don't want. think it needs to be done. I would not agree with using this information to do anything bad. It is a difference of opinion. Giving it to uncle sam is inherently bad. It is the duty of any republic to keep government in check and deprived of as much money and information as possible.Government is not the provider of the people, it is not the friend of the people. It is to be our servant and subservient to us, and the one we have is violating every aspect of that notion...and now you want it to stray even farther into my life. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] It's been a long road
You sound like some democrat living in suburbia, gimmie gimmie gimmie, I want all this free money but don't want to pay taxes. You can build a successful WISP without having some sort of handout. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I know you all will say "no, no, no!" but I'm saying "taxes, taxes, taxes are coming if we fill in those forms". Mark Koskenmaki wrote: >- Original Message - >From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "WISPA General List" >Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:15 PM >Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > > > > >>I agree with the need to register broadband operations in the US. I >> >> > >I can't imagine why. There isn't a single good thing to come from it. >Bribing the govenrment by giving them more than they need is >counterproductive. You never get what you want and you get lots you don't >want. > > > >>think it needs to be done. I would not agree with using this information >>to do anything bad. It is a difference of opinion. >> >> > >Giving it to uncle sam is inherently bad. It is the duty of any republic >to keep government in check and deprived of as much money and information as >possible.Government is not the provider of the people, it is not the >friend of the people. It is to be our servant and subservient to us, and >the one we have is violating every aspect of that notion...and now you want >it to stray even farther into my life. > > > > > >>Scriv >> >> >> > > > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/248 - Release Date: 2/1/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
I know you all will say "no, no, no!" but I'm saying "taxes, taxes, taxes are coming if we fill in those forms". Mark Koskenmaki wrote: - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road I agree with the need to register broadband operations in the US. I I can't imagine why. There isn't a single good thing to come from it. Bribing the govenrment by giving them more than they need is counterproductive. You never get what you want and you get lots you don't want. think it needs to be done. I would not agree with using this information to do anything bad. It is a difference of opinion. Giving it to uncle sam is inherently bad. It is the duty of any republic to keep government in check and deprived of as much money and information as possible.Government is not the provider of the people, it is not the friend of the people. It is to be our servant and subservient to us, and the one we have is violating every aspect of that notion...and now you want it to stray even farther into my life. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
- Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > I agree with the need to register broadband operations in the US. I I can't imagine why. There isn't a single good thing to come from it. Bribing the govenrment by giving them more than they need is counterproductive. You never get what you want and you get lots you don't want. > think it needs to be done. I would not agree with using this information > to do anything bad. It is a difference of opinion. Giving it to uncle sam is inherently bad. It is the duty of any republic to keep government in check and deprived of as much money and information as possible.Government is not the provider of the people, it is not the friend of the people. It is to be our servant and subservient to us, and the one we have is violating every aspect of that notion...and now you want it to stray even farther into my life. > Scriv > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
I agree with the need to register broadband operations in the US. I think it needs to be done. I would not agree with using this information to do anything bad. It is a difference of opinion. Scriv Not opposing it won't buy us 1 second's consideration, John. Stand on principle, not expediency. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
- Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > > > > > I personally know many people in government, both elected and appointed, > who are there because they do so to help the common good. One of my > goals in life is to reach a point of financial self security such that I > would be able to run for political office without the stigma of having > "special interest" backing. In other words if I already have my money > then my only motive there would be to do good for our society. That > would be my only reason to get into politics. I am tired of hearing the > cynical voice as being the only one with any volume in politics today. > There are still good people with good intentions who are there to help. > There are bad ones too. We cannot always assume that anyone willing to > help is there to stab us in the back. With that said I truly appreciate > and support the right of hearing the cynical voice. I just oppose that > view in most cases. :-) Ok, I try :) Seriously, I am idealist at heart, I'd like to think that the FCC and most government agencies are staffed with good, decent, well-motivated people. Reality is, they don't serve us, they serve those we elect.I don't like to think or speak this way, but it must be recognized when so much is at stake. > > > This includes > > > > > >>monitoring the growth and access to broadband across the country, The way I see this... Monitoring is fine. Let them try. There is NOTHING "holy" about providing an internet connection in excess of a certain rate that requires the feds to know who does it where, to whom, how, and when. > >>setting rules and regulations to govern communications, imposing taxes > >>when they see fit, enforcing rules and regulations, establishing funding > >>opportunities for infrastructure build-out, leveling the economic models > >>of rural verses metro broadband access. You cannot start a lobbying > >>organization to help structure the direction of your industry and then > >>ask those you are lobbying to just ignore you and leave you alone. It is > >>not the way the world works. Like it or not, you are regulated now and > >>have been all along. > >> > >> > > > >The way I see it, a lobbying effort is not one to beg to be regulated > >more... but to defend and promote our interests. I don't understand why > >we're so happy to jump into this "registration" to be a WISP. It's now > >illegal to provide broadband without registering yourself with the FCC. > >That's one MINUTE step to only allowing "qualified" people to be WISP's and > >so on.That is NOT in our interests.I mean, do you really understand > >the implications of this? It is illegal to provide broadband without > >FEDERAL REGISTRATION. Yup, if I buy a connection and hook up my block, I AM > >BREAKING THE LAW. That's extreme and excessive intrusion into my, your, > >and every other ISP's business. And yes, thousands of people are now > >breaking federal law... and I cannot believe that WISPA should roll over and > >play dead on this. We should defend the notion that federal intrusion is > >NOT welcome. Do they want or need more demographic data? Fine. Let's > >have WISPA help do this, but KEEP IT CONFIDENTIAL. The last thing I want > >is the feds telling me my chosen occupation is only at thier pleasure and > >whim. > > > >All we're doing is helping them kill us, when it serves the purposes of the > >politicians they work for. We SHOULD participate. That should be > >apparent, by the fact I'm willing to support WISPA, actively participated > >in the debates before its formation, and now contribute what is for me, a > >considerable financial investment to support it. One can hardly accuse me > >of not wanting to participate in the process. > > > >What I don't understand, is why am I the only person who has massive alarms > >going off in his head at the direction WISPA apparently seems to support? > > > >It seems debate consists of calling anyone who disagrees with the idea > >"non-participating" or some other debate squelcher. > > > > > If you break the law it is your own butt in the sling. WISPA and nobody WISPA should have an obligation to get them to reverse this ruling. This is a "law" not written by an elected official. I seriously doubt they even have any specific con
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
This bandwagon is being built without your input because you will not participate. The regulation of any communications industry is inevitable in this country. The Part-15 rules that govern the use of spectrum are in fact regulations. The "Part" is referring to Part-15 of the Code of Federal Regulations if memory serves me. You cannot hide from regulation. It will not go away. The best you can do is steer the people who make the regulations to do the right thing whenever possible. That's right. But that regulation allows non-interactive use of the spectrum. In other words, I don't have to request to be able to use it. I am bound by the same laws that everyone else is, but have equal opportunity for use. Some WISPs have licensed spectrum. Some will be more involved in spectrum policy issues and licensing than yourself. Others will become licensed operators as they grow. Probably all successful WISPs will have a mix of licensed and unlicensed in their network at some time. The regulators will not serve your needs exclusively as that is not their job. Public officials are supposed to do their best to support the public good and will do whatever they see fit to do so. Well... Let me re-phrase this a bit. They will do what serves thier stated goals and still keeps them in compliance with the directives of the politicians that write thier laws for them. They are unelected, but they are to carry out the goals and wishes of those who have been. "Supporting the public good" is about the least of thier concerns, unless it is the concern of those they work for - the politicians.This isn't to impugn the FCC or any public official, it's just a slightly cynical method of describing exactly who they answer to and why and how. I personally know many people in government, both elected and appointed, who are there because they do so to help the common good. One of my goals in life is to reach a point of financial self security such that I would be able to run for political office without the stigma of having "special interest" backing. In other words if I already have my money then my only motive there would be to do good for our society. That would be my only reason to get into politics. I am tired of hearing the cynical voice as being the only one with any volume in politics today. There are still good people with good intentions who are there to help. There are bad ones too. We cannot always assume that anyone willing to help is there to stab us in the back. With that said I truly appreciate and support the right of hearing the cynical voice. I just oppose that view in most cases. :-) This includes monitoring the growth and access to broadband across the country, setting rules and regulations to govern communications, imposing taxes when they see fit, enforcing rules and regulations, establishing funding opportunities for infrastructure build-out, leveling the economic models of rural verses metro broadband access. You cannot start a lobbying organization to help structure the direction of your industry and then ask those you are lobbying to just ignore you and leave you alone. It is not the way the world works. Like it or not, you are regulated now and have been all along. The way I see it, a lobbying effort is not one to beg to be regulated more... but to defend and promote our interests. I don't understand why we're so happy to jump into this "registration" to be a WISP. It's now illegal to provide broadband without registering yourself with the FCC. That's one MINUTE step to only allowing "qualified" people to be WISP's and so on.That is NOT in our interests.I mean, do you really understand the implications of this? It is illegal to provide broadband without FEDERAL REGISTRATION. Yup, if I buy a connection and hook up my block, I AM BREAKING THE LAW. That's extreme and excessive intrusion into my, your, and every other ISP's business. And yes, thousands of people are now breaking federal law... and I cannot believe that WISPA should roll over and play dead on this. We should defend the notion that federal intrusion is NOT welcome. Do they want or need more demographic data? Fine. Let's have WISPA help do this, but KEEP IT CONFIDENTIAL. The last thing I want is the feds telling me my chosen occupation is only at thier pleasure and whim. All we're doing is helping them kill us, when it serves the purposes of the politicians they work for. We SHOULD participate. That should be apparent, by the fact I'm willing to support WISPA, actively participated in the debates before its formation, and now contribute what is for me, a considerable financial investment to support it. One can hardly accuse me of not wanting to participate in the process. What I don't understand, is why am I the only person who has massive alarms going off in his head at the direction WISPA apparently seems to support? It seems debate cons
RE: [WISPA] It's been a long road
WISPA members should be required to file that Form 477 Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 3:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road Mark wrote: >I honestly am beginning to question my move into the WISP business... seems >there's hardly a soul out there that sees danger in jumping on the "regulate >me and give me money" bandwagon... > > This bandwagon is being built without your input because you will not participate. The regulation of any communications industry is inevitable in this country. The Part-15 rules that govern the use of spectrum are in fact regulations. The "Part" is referring to Part-15 of the Code of Federal Regulations if memory serves me. You cannot hide from regulation. It will not go away. The best you can do is steer the people who make the regulations to do the right thing whenever possible. The regulators will not serve your needs exclusively as that is not their job. Public officials are supposed to do their best to support the public good and will do whatever they see fit to do so. This includes monitoring the growth and access to broadband across the country, setting rules and regulations to govern communications, imposing taxes when they see fit, enforcing rules and regulations, establishing funding opportunities for infrastructure build-out, leveling the economic models of rural verses metro broadband access. You cannot start a lobbying organization to help structure the direction of your industry and then ask those you are lobbying to just ignore you and leave you alone. It is not the way the world works. Like it or not, you are regulated now and have been all along. As far as funding is concerned there is money available. People are getting it. You can too if you ask for it. The money is going to go to somebody. It might as well be you. Scriv > > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/248 - Release Date: 2/1/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
- Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 3:02 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > Mark wrote: > > >I honestly am beginning to question my move into the WISP business... seems > >there's hardly a soul out there that sees danger in jumping on the "regulate > >me and give me money" bandwagon... > > > > > > This bandwagon is being built without your input because you will not > participate. The regulation of any communications industry is inevitable > in this country. The Part-15 rules that govern the use of spectrum are > in fact regulations. The "Part" is referring to Part-15 of the Code of > Federal Regulations if memory serves me. You cannot hide from > regulation. It will not go away. The best you can do is steer the people > who make the regulations to do the right thing whenever possible. That's right. But that regulation allows non-interactive use of the spectrum. In other words, I don't have to request to be able to use it. I am bound by the same laws that everyone else is, but have equal opportunity for use. > > The regulators will not serve your needs exclusively as that is not > their job. Public officials are supposed to do their best to support the > public good and will do whatever they see fit to do so. Well... Let me re-phrase this a bit. They will do what serves thier stated goals and still keeps them in compliance with the directives of the politicians that write thier laws for them. They are unelected, but they are to carry out the goals and wishes of those who have been. "Supporting the public good" is about the least of thier concerns, unless it is the concern of those they work for - the politicians.This isn't to impugn the FCC or any public official, it's just a slightly cynical method of describing exactly who they answer to and why and how. This includes > monitoring the growth and access to broadband across the country, > setting rules and regulations to govern communications, imposing taxes > when they see fit, enforcing rules and regulations, establishing funding > opportunities for infrastructure build-out, leveling the economic models > of rural verses metro broadband access. You cannot start a lobbying > organization to help structure the direction of your industry and then > ask those you are lobbying to just ignore you and leave you alone. It is > not the way the world works. Like it or not, you are regulated now and > have been all along. The way I see it, a lobbying effort is not one to beg to be regulated more... but to defend and promote our interests. I don't understand why we're so happy to jump into this "registration" to be a WISP. It's now illegal to provide broadband without registering yourself with the FCC. That's one MINUTE step to only allowing "qualified" people to be WISP's and so on.That is NOT in our interests.I mean, do you really understand the implications of this? It is illegal to provide broadband without FEDERAL REGISTRATION. Yup, if I buy a connection and hook up my block, I AM BREAKING THE LAW. That's extreme and excessive intrusion into my, your, and every other ISP's business. And yes, thousands of people are now breaking federal law... and I cannot believe that WISPA should roll over and play dead on this. We should defend the notion that federal intrusion is NOT welcome. Do they want or need more demographic data? Fine. Let's have WISPA help do this, but KEEP IT CONFIDENTIAL. The last thing I want is the feds telling me my chosen occupation is only at thier pleasure and whim. All we're doing is helping them kill us, when it serves the purposes of the politicians they work for. We SHOULD participate. That should be apparent, by the fact I'm willing to support WISPA, actively participated in the debates before its formation, and now contribute what is for me, a considerable financial investment to support it. One can hardly accuse me of not wanting to participate in the process. What I don't understand, is why am I the only person who has massive alarms going off in his head at the direction WISPA apparently seems to support? It seems debate consists of calling anyone who disagrees with the idea "non-participating" or some other debate squelcher. > > As far as funding is concerned there is money available. People are > getting it. You can too if you ask for it. The money is going to go to > somebody. It might as well be you. Funding? My concern isn't about funding. It's about regulation. And ingratiating yourself by supporting excessive regulation and intrusion will get US precisely nothing
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
My 2c: Every board member should be required to read "The Communications Toolkit: How to Build and Regulate any Communications Business" by P.H. Longstaff, published by MIT Press: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0262122464/103-3300353-7834263?v=glance&n=283155 Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Mark wrote: I honestly am beginning to question my move into the WISP business... seems there's hardly a soul out there that sees danger in jumping on the "regulate me and give me money" bandwagon... This bandwagon is being built without your input because you will not participate. The regulation of any communications industry is inevitable in this country. The Part-15 rules that govern the use of spectrum are in fact regulations. The "Part" is referring to Part-15 of the Code of Federal Regulations if memory serves me. You cannot hide from regulation. It will not go away. The best you can do is steer the people who make the regulations to do the right thing whenever possible. The regulators will not serve your needs exclusively as that is not their job. Public officials are supposed to do their best to support the public good and will do whatever they see fit to do so. This includes monitoring the growth and access to broadband across the country, setting rules and regulations to govern communications, imposing taxes when they see fit, enforcing rules and regulations, establishing funding opportunities for infrastructure build-out, leveling the economic models of rural verses metro broadband access. You cannot start a lobbying organization to help structure the direction of your industry and then ask those you are lobbying to just ignore you and leave you alone. It is not the way the world works. Like it or not, you are regulated now and have been all along. As far as funding is concerned there is money available. People are getting it. You can too if you ask for it. The money is going to go to somebody. It might as well be you. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Mark, why do you always have all this free time on your hands to be writing stuff like this? Shouldn't you be out doing like 5 installs a day, then coming back to the office and taking a nap? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] It's been a long road the following is fiction... but could it happen? = Dateline, Washington DC, August 11, 2010 Ed Duerkson, National Small Business Monthly Today, just in time to boost her presidental aspirations, Senator Clinton and the rest of the Senate voted in the Universal Information Rights bill. "This sweeping legislation is the most important act to pass Congress since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts in the sixties. Defining access to information as a right, just like the right to vote and the right to free speech will revolutionize our society." As a regular writer of this column and having followed this story for a few years, I think it's time to recap just how we got to where we are. Researching the history of internet providers has been a fascinating study. The earliest access to what was a closed system started back in the middle 90's, when a few ISP's started allowing modem access to what was a very academia oriented network. Time online was expensive, but everything online was free. And not a regulation in sight. By the late 90's, dialup was common, and faster internet connections were becoming sought after, and DSL (Digital Subscriber Line) technology was slowly rolled out in urban areas by most telephone companies, which allowed the dramatically faster - but slow by today's standards - access of at first a fraction of a megabit, and then growing to several megabit speeds. Of course, all access previous to common DSL was all by small business. Then, the phone companies saw the light and began thier own internet access offerings. They owned DSL for the most part, and moved into the wholesale, or commodity, dialup business. Striking down the telecommunications act by the courts a few years later gave them a leg up on gaining market share. Most of this market share seemed to be at the expense of ISP's. By the middle of this last decade, DSL was available to well more than half of the population - and with the advent of commodity priced equipment, it rapidly spread to around 80%. Cable was hot, as well, providing 'net access to large areas and bundled with tv and eventually, VOIP offerings. Then, fiber slowly began to be deployed. With good speeds, and a permanence of presence, fiber finally began to penetrate urban areas. But with high costs of deployment, somewhat costly maintenance, fiber was relatlively expensive for residential use. So, you say, what happened to those areas NOT covered by DSL and fiber? Some had nothing other than dialup. Wireless providers grew expansively in the early and middle part of the decade. No license costs, almost no regulation, and the advent of inexpensive and relatively fast wireless equipment and technologies made wireless a bright star. It, too, however, had moderate infrastructure costs, and it did not cover everywhere. Satellite was a somewhat less than stellar, but very universally available version of broadband. Performance issues kept it from being much besides the "last available alternative". >From a small business advocacy perspective, Wireless was the key. Anyone could get into the business, the cost of deployment varied dramatically from a couple normal paychecks, to millions of dollars, and so it became a bright star for small business, in the communications sector. How this changed? Well, that's a subject of debate. Some say it was inevitable "maturing". I disagree. Many industries "mature" and leave a vibrant mix of both small and large operators. In this case, it was a case of regulation and some interesting moves by industry and politics. First, regulators moved to regulate Internet services. WISP's began to lobby the FCC for spectrum, the kind required to offer near universal services. They won this battle. Almost. They won, with late 2006 rule by the FCC that granted sub 1Ghz spectrum for the provision of broadband services. With over 150Mhz of spectrum available, the industry was ecstatic. But with an intenst lobbying by a coalition of telephone companies, cellular companies, and equipment manufacturers - with the lead operators of each being Verizon, SBC, Motorola, and joined by Microsoft and a group of WiMax producers and even the ARRL, intense pressure and the specter of a lot of lawsuits prompted the FCC to reverse its decision, and that spectrum space was changed to "licensed" and sold
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
A fictional future president we've not heard of yet" :) I told you it was FICTION, george... :) North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: "George" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > Who is James Hart, "President of WISPA" ? > > George > > > > "James Hart, president of WISPA, who had been influential and forceful in > Washington DC revealed to me in a phone conversation, that he and WISPA were > expecting the closure or sale of about 99% of its member's businesses. > WISPA had been initially supportive of the UKA goals, but the universal > service requirments killed all support. But it was too late." > > Mark Koskenmaki wrote: > > the following is fiction... but could it happen? > > > > = > > > > Dateline, Washington DC, August 11, 2010 > > > > Ed Duerkson, National Small Business Monthly > > > > Today, just in time to boost her presidental aspirations, Senator Clinton > > and the rest of the Senate voted in the Universal Information Rights bill. > > "This sweeping legislation is the most important act to pass Congress since > > the passage of the Civil Rights Acts in the sixties. Defining access to > > information as a right, just like the right to vote and the right to free > > speech will revolutionize our society." > > > > As a regular writer of this column and having followed this story for a few > > years, I think it's time to recap just how we got to where we are. > > Researching the history of internet providers has been a fascinating study. > > The earliest access to what was a closed system started back in the middle > > 90's, when a few ISP's started allowing modem access to what was a very > > academia oriented network. > > > > Time online was expensive, but everything online was free. And not a > > regulation in sight. > > > > By the late 90's, dialup was common, and faster internet connections were > > becoming sought after, and DSL (Digital Subscriber Line) technology was > > slowly rolled out in urban areas by most telephone companies, which allowed > > the dramatically faster - but slow by today's standards - access of at first > > a fraction of a megabit, and then growing to several megabit speeds. Of > > course, all access previous to common DSL was all by small business. Then, > > the phone companies saw the light and began thier own internet access > > offerings. They owned DSL for the most part, and moved into the wholesale, > > or commodity, dialup business. Striking down the telecommunications act by > > the courts a few years later gave them a leg up on gaining market share. > > Most of this market share seemed to be at the expense of ISP's. > > > > By the middle of this last decade, DSL was available to well more than half > > of the population - and with the advent of commodity priced equipment, it > > rapidly spread to around 80%. Cable was hot, as well, providing 'net > > access to large areas and bundled with tv and eventually, VOIP offerings. > > > > Then, fiber slowly began to be deployed. With good speeds, and a > > permanence of presence, fiber finally began to penetrate urban areas. But > > with high costs of deployment, somewhat costly maintenance, fiber was > > relatlively expensive for residential use. > > > > So, you say, what happened to those areas NOT covered by DSL and fiber? > > Some had nothing other than dialup. Wireless providers grew expansively in > > the early and middle part of the decade. No license costs, almost no > > regulation, and the advent of inexpensive and relatively fast wireless > > equipment and technologies made wireless a bright star. It, too, however, > > had moderate infrastructure costs, and it did not cover everywhere. > > Satellite was a somewhat less than stellar, but very universally available > > version of broadband. Performance issues kept it from being much besides > > the "last available alternative". > > > >>From a small business advocacy perspective, Wireless was the key. Anyone > > could get into the business, the cost of deployment varied dramatically from > > a couple normal paychecks, to millions of dollars, and so it became
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
I snuck this quote from somewhere... Evoking images of broadband "toll bridges" and "gate keepers", Democratic FCC Commissioner Michael Copps Tuesday praised a study that found a majority of respondents (54%) wanted legislation mandating nondiscriminatory access to Internet service providers (ISPs). The venue was a press conference Wednesday by Consumers Union, Consumer Federation of America and Free Press announcing the study and calling for such a provision in Congress' ongoing rewrite of the 1996 Telecommunications Act. Copps did not expressly back a legislative mandate-referring only to "creative solutions"-or take questions, but he said the data "made clear to me that this is becoming a really important national issue." [Story from Freepress.net] So many ways this can be interpreted... North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road > Well it clearly demonstrates that everyone needs to be very careful of what > they ask for. > Things may not end up as planned, if they aren't on top of the game.. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Who is James Hart, "President of WISPA" ? George "James Hart, president of WISPA, who had been influential and forceful in Washington DC revealed to me in a phone conversation, that he and WISPA were expecting the closure or sale of about 99% of its member's businesses. WISPA had been initially supportive of the UKA goals, but the universal service requirments killed all support. But it was too late." Mark Koskenmaki wrote: the following is fiction... but could it happen? = Dateline, Washington DC, August 11, 2010 Ed Duerkson, National Small Business Monthly Today, just in time to boost her presidental aspirations, Senator Clinton and the rest of the Senate voted in the Universal Information Rights bill. "This sweeping legislation is the most important act to pass Congress since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts in the sixties. Defining access to information as a right, just like the right to vote and the right to free speech will revolutionize our society." As a regular writer of this column and having followed this story for a few years, I think it's time to recap just how we got to where we are. Researching the history of internet providers has been a fascinating study. The earliest access to what was a closed system started back in the middle 90's, when a few ISP's started allowing modem access to what was a very academia oriented network. Time online was expensive, but everything online was free. And not a regulation in sight. By the late 90's, dialup was common, and faster internet connections were becoming sought after, and DSL (Digital Subscriber Line) technology was slowly rolled out in urban areas by most telephone companies, which allowed the dramatically faster - but slow by today's standards - access of at first a fraction of a megabit, and then growing to several megabit speeds. Of course, all access previous to common DSL was all by small business. Then, the phone companies saw the light and began thier own internet access offerings. They owned DSL for the most part, and moved into the wholesale, or commodity, dialup business. Striking down the telecommunications act by the courts a few years later gave them a leg up on gaining market share. Most of this market share seemed to be at the expense of ISP's. By the middle of this last decade, DSL was available to well more than half of the population - and with the advent of commodity priced equipment, it rapidly spread to around 80%. Cable was hot, as well, providing 'net access to large areas and bundled with tv and eventually, VOIP offerings. Then, fiber slowly began to be deployed. With good speeds, and a permanence of presence, fiber finally began to penetrate urban areas. But with high costs of deployment, somewhat costly maintenance, fiber was relatlively expensive for residential use. So, you say, what happened to those areas NOT covered by DSL and fiber? Some had nothing other than dialup. Wireless providers grew expansively in the early and middle part of the decade. No license costs, almost no regulation, and the advent of inexpensive and relatively fast wireless equipment and technologies made wireless a bright star. It, too, however, had moderate infrastructure costs, and it did not cover everywhere. Satellite was a somewhat less than stellar, but very universally available version of broadband. Performance issues kept it from being much besides the "last available alternative". From a small business advocacy perspective, Wireless was the key. Anyone could get into the business, the cost of deployment varied dramatically from a couple normal paychecks, to millions of dollars, and so it became a bright star for small business, in the communications sector. How this changed? Well, that's a subject of debate. Some say it was inevitable "maturing". I disagree. Many industries "mature" and leave a vibrant mix of both small and large operators. In this case, it was a case of regulation and some interesting moves by industry and politics. First, regulators moved to regulate Internet services. WISP's began to lobby the FCC for spectrum, the kind required to offer near universal services. They won this battle. Almost. They won, with late 2006 rule by the FCC that granted sub 1Ghz spectrum for the provision of broadband services. With over 150Mhz of spectrum available, the industry was ecstatic. But with an intenst lobbying by a coalition of telephone companies, cellular companies, and equipment manufacturers - with the lead operators of each being Verizon, SBC, Motorola, and joined by Microsoft and a group of WiMax producers and even the ARRL, intense pressure and the specter of a lot of lawsuits prompted the FCC to reverse its decision, and that spectrum space was changed to "licensed" and sold at auction. This seems to be the key. Lobbying produced results and WISP's gained the ability to tap USF funds to provide internet and VOIP phone service to ru
Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road
Well it clearly demonstrates that everyone needs to be very careful of what they ask for. Things may not end up as planned, if they aren't on top of the game.. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Mark Koskenmaki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 4:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] It's been a long road the following is fiction... but could it happen? = Dateline, Washington DC, August 11, 2010 Ed Duerkson, National Small Business Monthly Today, just in time to boost her presidental aspirations, Senator Clinton and the rest of the Senate voted in the Universal Information Rights bill. "This sweeping legislation is the most important act to pass Congress since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts in the sixties. Defining access to information as a right, just like the right to vote and the right to free speech will revolutionize our society." As a regular writer of this column and having followed this story for a few years, I think it's time to recap just how we got to where we are. Researching the history of internet providers has been a fascinating study. The earliest access to what was a closed system started back in the middle 90's, when a few ISP's started allowing modem access to what was a very academia oriented network. Time online was expensive, but everything online was free. And not a regulation in sight. By the late 90's, dialup was common, and faster internet connections were becoming sought after, and DSL (Digital Subscriber Line) technology was slowly rolled out in urban areas by most telephone companies, which allowed the dramatically faster - but slow by today's standards - access of at first a fraction of a megabit, and then growing to several megabit speeds. Of course, all access previous to common DSL was all by small business. Then, the phone companies saw the light and began thier own internet access offerings. They owned DSL for the most part, and moved into the wholesale, or commodity, dialup business. Striking down the telecommunications act by the courts a few years later gave them a leg up on gaining market share. Most of this market share seemed to be at the expense of ISP's. By the middle of this last decade, DSL was available to well more than half of the population - and with the advent of commodity priced equipment, it rapidly spread to around 80%. Cable was hot, as well, providing 'net access to large areas and bundled with tv and eventually, VOIP offerings. Then, fiber slowly began to be deployed. With good speeds, and a permanence of presence, fiber finally began to penetrate urban areas. But with high costs of deployment, somewhat costly maintenance, fiber was relatlively expensive for residential use. So, you say, what happened to those areas NOT covered by DSL and fiber? Some had nothing other than dialup. Wireless providers grew expansively in the early and middle part of the decade. No license costs, almost no regulation, and the advent of inexpensive and relatively fast wireless equipment and technologies made wireless a bright star. It, too, however, had moderate infrastructure costs, and it did not cover everywhere. Satellite was a somewhat less than stellar, but very universally available version of broadband. Performance issues kept it from being much besides the "last available alternative". From a small business advocacy perspective, Wireless was the key. Anyone could get into the business, the cost of deployment varied dramatically from a couple normal paychecks, to millions of dollars, and so it became a bright star for small business, in the communications sector. How this changed? Well, that's a subject of debate. Some say it was inevitable "maturing". I disagree. Many industries "mature" and leave a vibrant mix of both small and large operators. In this case, it was a case of regulation and some interesting moves by industry and politics. First, regulators moved to regulate Internet services. WISP's began to lobby the FCC for spectrum, the kind required to offer near universal services. They won this battle. Almost. They won, with late 2006 rule by the FCC that granted sub 1Ghz spectrum for the provision of broadband services. With over 150Mhz of spectrum available, the industry was ecstatic. But with an intenst lobbying by a coalition of telephone companies, cellular companies, and equipment manufacturers - with the lead operators of each being Verizon, SBC, Motorola, and joined by Microsoft and a group of WiMax producers and even the ARRL, intense pressure and the specter of a lot of lawsuits prompted the FCC to reverse its decision, and that spectrum space was changed to "licensed" and sold at aucti
[WISPA] It's been a long road
the following is fiction... but could it happen? = Dateline, Washington DC, August 11, 2010 Ed Duerkson, National Small Business Monthly Today, just in time to boost her presidental aspirations, Senator Clinton and the rest of the Senate voted in the Universal Information Rights bill. "This sweeping legislation is the most important act to pass Congress since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts in the sixties. Defining access to information as a right, just like the right to vote and the right to free speech will revolutionize our society." As a regular writer of this column and having followed this story for a few years, I think it's time to recap just how we got to where we are. Researching the history of internet providers has been a fascinating study. The earliest access to what was a closed system started back in the middle 90's, when a few ISP's started allowing modem access to what was a very academia oriented network. Time online was expensive, but everything online was free. And not a regulation in sight. By the late 90's, dialup was common, and faster internet connections were becoming sought after, and DSL (Digital Subscriber Line) technology was slowly rolled out in urban areas by most telephone companies, which allowed the dramatically faster - but slow by today's standards - access of at first a fraction of a megabit, and then growing to several megabit speeds. Of course, all access previous to common DSL was all by small business. Then, the phone companies saw the light and began thier own internet access offerings. They owned DSL for the most part, and moved into the wholesale, or commodity, dialup business. Striking down the telecommunications act by the courts a few years later gave them a leg up on gaining market share. Most of this market share seemed to be at the expense of ISP's. By the middle of this last decade, DSL was available to well more than half of the population - and with the advent of commodity priced equipment, it rapidly spread to around 80%. Cable was hot, as well, providing 'net access to large areas and bundled with tv and eventually, VOIP offerings. Then, fiber slowly began to be deployed. With good speeds, and a permanence of presence, fiber finally began to penetrate urban areas. But with high costs of deployment, somewhat costly maintenance, fiber was relatlively expensive for residential use. So, you say, what happened to those areas NOT covered by DSL and fiber? Some had nothing other than dialup. Wireless providers grew expansively in the early and middle part of the decade. No license costs, almost no regulation, and the advent of inexpensive and relatively fast wireless equipment and technologies made wireless a bright star. It, too, however, had moderate infrastructure costs, and it did not cover everywhere. Satellite was a somewhat less than stellar, but very universally available version of broadband. Performance issues kept it from being much besides the "last available alternative". >From a small business advocacy perspective, Wireless was the key. Anyone could get into the business, the cost of deployment varied dramatically from a couple normal paychecks, to millions of dollars, and so it became a bright star for small business, in the communications sector. How this changed? Well, that's a subject of debate. Some say it was inevitable "maturing". I disagree. Many industries "mature" and leave a vibrant mix of both small and large operators. In this case, it was a case of regulation and some interesting moves by industry and politics. First, regulators moved to regulate Internet services. WISP's began to lobby the FCC for spectrum, the kind required to offer near universal services. They won this battle. Almost. They won, with late 2006 rule by the FCC that granted sub 1Ghz spectrum for the provision of broadband services. With over 150Mhz of spectrum available, the industry was ecstatic. But with an intenst lobbying by a coalition of telephone companies, cellular companies, and equipment manufacturers - with the lead operators of each being Verizon, SBC, Motorola, and joined by Microsoft and a group of WiMax producers and even the ARRL, intense pressure and the specter of a lot of lawsuits prompted the FCC to reverse its decision, and that spectrum space was changed to "licensed" and sold at auction. This seems to be the key. Lobbying produced results and WISP's gained the ability to tap USF funds to provide internet and VOIP phone service to rural areas. In fact, a few actually bought out a couple small areas from independent phone companies and a short lived moved by larger phone companies to divest themselves from small money-losing areas. These were relatively successful initially. But with this move, new regulations came into existence. WISP's could no longer offer any other service than an internet connection, or else they were classified as and subject to full
