Re: [WISPA] Are you making money?
Hi, Although he has spent some time and efforts, many of his numbers are WAY off: $50 installs (contract labor) customers paying $360 for installation $40 per month ARPU (for a startup WISP is not realistic today with $15 DSL) Just taking the installation numbers away completely changes this sheet... we are doing $99 installs and include a free Linksys wireless firewall/router. So now instead of making $15 per install, he will be losing $246. So now after 2 years, the company is making $11,736 per month profit but still shows $42,000 in debt (from the first 2 years) and hasn't paid anything back to the investors, banks, etc. Now, if you use the same sheet, lease the CPE ($5/mo per customer) and still buy the Linksys router for $40, the company is making $18,800 per month profit and has $98,000 in cash after 2 years. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17086669 I have not got to the spreadsheet, but the post was well worth the 5 minute read, and I'm looking forward to getting some numbers down on the spreadsheet. I think this could help some of us. Brian -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Are you making money?
exactly the mistake my company made. Shoulda, woulda, coulda leased... 'cept in NJ, it's $125 contract labor, and $244 for installation (199 install / 45 first month), oh and no free towers, they're all (16 of them) $500 / month / each at LEAST No free lunch. So to answer the previous question #3, no you will not be making tons of money - you will be eating your shirt :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are you making money? Hi, Although he has spent some time and efforts, many of his numbers are WAY off: $50 installs (contract labor) customers paying $360 for installation $40 per month ARPU (for a startup WISP is not realistic today with $15 DSL) Just taking the installation numbers away completely changes this sheet... we are doing $99 installs and include a free Linksys wireless firewall/router. So now instead of making $15 per install, he will be losing $246. So now after 2 years, the company is making $11,736 per month profit but still shows $42,000 in debt (from the first 2 years) and hasn't paid anything back to the investors, banks, etc. Now, if you use the same sheet, lease the CPE ($5/mo per customer) and still buy the Linksys router for $40, the company is making $18,800 per month profit and has $98,000 in cash after 2 years. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17086669 > > I have not got to the spreadsheet, but the post was well worth the 5 > minute read, and I'm looking forward to getting some numbers down on > the spreadsheet. I think this could help some of us. > > Brian -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Are you making money?
The problem with Leasing, is that you ahve to keep your clients longer than your leases. Historically, WISPs make logrithmic growth with each year having more growth than the year before. Usually the profit from old business (subs with paid off leases), rarely covers costs of growth, as the growth in later years is so much grander. Sure leasing helps growth and makes the books look good. But what happens in your last year? The one where you potentially could loose all your subs? The year that you just had your largest growth, and largest amount of dollars on Leases for reoccuring liabilities. Will your business then last 3 more years to pay off those leases? The problem with Finance, is it gives people a fake sense of success, and while deferring payment, it allows upfront moneys to be spent more wastefully because it is there to spend. There is always a grand plan of how that money will be used to improve business, but do things always work the way they are planned, and do you ghet your money's worth? There is something to be said for the business man that believes in old fasion values of a dollar earned and a dollar that can be spent, apposed to spending tommorrows dollar today and deferring todays liabilties to tommorrow. It order not to loose your butt leasing, one must predict accurately the date of their end came, so they know when the leases have to be paid off. What if you aren't bought, as predicted at the end game? One of the things I've learned is that when you are eating fat (money available), people get lazy. When you are hungry and wondering how you are going to pay tommorrow's bill, all a sudden their is an urgency to succeed that not only is urgent but essential. Its amazing what a person can accomplish when they are backed against the wall and have no choice but to do it. Its amazing how much someone can save when they ahve a tight budget to conform to, and they know when the money is gone the money is gone. Wether it makes sense to lease is not the golden question. The golden question is, how will you spend the money that becomes available because you leased. That is what will seperate the winners from the loosers. One of the most basic concepts there is in accounting is, its much more beneficial to reduce your costs $100, than to make $100 more income, because the $100 income have additional costs that grow with it. I think leasing makes sense if you get good terms, and are short on cash flow, but if you are not frugal in spending along the way, one is just deffering their death by leasing. Whats important is that the money spent, has something tangible and of value (holds its value on a reoccuring basis). Things like high salaries that are spent and gone, or technology greater than one's need in a business with falling prices and rapid advancement, are monies spent that have little value after the fact. Disclaimer, this comment does not negate the importance to determine the amount of capitol (cash) that will be needed and securing it before progressing with a business plan. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Rick Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Are you making money? exactly the mistake my company made. Shoulda, woulda, coulda leased... 'cept in NJ, it's $125 contract labor, and $244 for installation (199 install / 45 first month), oh and no free towers, they're all (16 of them) $500 / month / each at LEAST No free lunch. So to answer the previous question #3, no you will not be making tons of money - you will be eating your shirt :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are you making money? Hi, Although he has spent some time and efforts, many of his numbers are WAY off: $50 installs (contract labor) customers paying $360 for installation $40 per month ARPU (for a startup WISP is not realistic today with $15 DSL) Just taking the installation numbers away completely changes this sheet... we are doing $99 installs and include a free Linksys wireless firewall/router. So now instead of making $15 per install, he will be losing $246. So now after 2 years, the company is making $11,736 per month profit but still shows $42,000 in debt (from the first 2 years) and hasn't paid anything back to the investors, banks, etc. Now, if you use the same sheet, lease the CPE ($5/mo per customer) and still buy the Linksys router for $40, the company is making $18,800 per month profit and has $98,000 in cash after 2 years. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17086669 I have not got to th
RE: [WISPA] Are you making money?
Awesome post Tom, to bad many folks won't get the meaning of it. It goes along with the old belief "I bought it because it's a tax write off". In my book if you can't write it off dollar for dollar spent you just wasted money. If you only get a 30% write off then you just wasted 70% of the money you spent. Now if you needed the item anyway then that's OK, but how many folks will buy the new service truck because they need the write off...I just love that one. I'd rather pay the 30% tax and keep the other 70% in my pocket, but what do I know. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com> -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 6:59 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are you making money? The problem with Leasing, is that you ahve to keep your clients longer than your leases. Historically, WISPs make logrithmic growth with each year having more growth than the year before. Usually the profit from old business (subs with paid off leases), rarely covers costs of growth, as the growth in later years is so much grander. Sure leasing helps growth and makes the books look good. But what happens in your last year? The one where you potentially could loose all your subs? The year that you just had your largest growth, and largest amount of dollars on Leases for reoccuring liabilities. Will your business then last 3 more years to pay off those leases? The problem with Finance, is it gives people a fake sense of success, and while deferring payment, it allows upfront moneys to be spent more wastefully because it is there to spend. There is always a grand plan of how that money will be used to improve business, but do things always work the way they are planned, and do you ghet your money's worth? There is something to be said for the business man that believes in old fasion values of a dollar earned and a dollar that can be spent, apposed to spending tommorrows dollar today and deferring todays liabilties to tommorrow. It order not to loose your butt leasing, one must predict accurately the date of their end came, so they know when the leases have to be paid off. What if you aren't bought, as predicted at the end game? One of the things I've learned is that when you are eating fat (money available), people get lazy. When you are hungry and wondering how you are going to pay tommorrow's bill, all a sudden their is an urgency to succeed that not only is urgent but essential. Its amazing what a person can accomplish when they are backed against the wall and have no choice but to do it. Its amazing how much someone can save when they ahve a tight budget to conform to, and they know when the money is gone the money is gone. Wether it makes sense to lease is not the golden question. The golden question is, how will you spend the money that becomes available because you leased. That is what will seperate the winners from the loosers. One of the most basic concepts there is in accounting is, its much more beneficial to reduce your costs $100, than to make $100 more income, because the $100 income have additional costs that grow with it. I think leasing makes sense if you get good terms, and are short on cash flow, but if you are not frugal in spending along the way, one is just deffering their death by leasing. Whats important is that the money spent, has something tangible and of value (holds its value on a reoccuring basis). Things like high salaries that are spent and gone, or technology greater than one's need in a business with falling prices and rapid advancement, are monies spent that have little value after the fact. Disclaimer, this comment does not negate the importance to determine the amount of capitol (cash) that will be needed and securing it before progressing with a business plan. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Rick Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Are you making money? > exactly the mistake my company made. Shoulda, woulda, coulda leased... > > 'cept in NJ, it's $125 contract labor, and $244 for installation (199 > install / 45 first month), oh and no free towers, they're all (16 of them) > $500 / month / each at LEAST > > No free lunch. So to answer the previous question #3, no you will not be > making tons of money - you will be eating your shirt :) > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Travis Johnson > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:24 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are you making money? > > Hi, > > Although he has spent some time and effo
Re: [WISPA] Are you making money?
Tom, The idea is that you lease the CPE equipment. It costs you $5 per month per sub (using $149 CPE), and you are breaking even on the install. So from day one I am making money on the sub (and generating positive cash flow). I can then use that money to grow the business (more bandwidth, bigger routers, more towers, etc) and continue over and over and over. Also, because I can lease 250 CPE at a time, I am getting a better price. Let's run some numbers: Trango 2.4ghz CPE = $475 in single quantity 36 month lease on same CPE = $12/month = $432 total cost So, even though I am paying interest for 36 months, the actual cost of the radio is less, but I don't have to come up with money for each sub that I install. Instead I am able to "run" the business from day to day without having to "get over the next hurdle". I can pay good salaries, have nice office space, etc. because the business runs cash flow positive from day one with EVERY customer. Plug the numbers into that spreadsheet that started this discussion and see which business model you would rather own in 2-3 years. There is nothing wrong with debt... you just have to manage it correctly. Each lease becomes an "operating expense", just like bandwidth, tower rent, etc. The best part is in 3 years, you own the CPE. Even if only 80% of them are still operating, that's 80% new CPE you don't have to buy. ;) For what it's worth, the "tax write-off thing" always gets me too. People almost talk like it's free money or something, instead of the 70% expense it really is. :) Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: The problem with Leasing, is that you ahve to keep your clients longer than your leases. Historically, WISPs make logrithmic growth with each year having more growth than the year before. Usually the profit from old business (subs with paid off leases), rarely covers costs of growth, as the growth in later years is so much grander. Sure leasing helps growth and makes the books look good. But what happens in your last year? The one where you potentially could loose all your subs? The year that you just had your largest growth, and largest amount of dollars on Leases for reoccuring liabilities. Will your business then last 3 more years to pay off those leases? The problem with Finance, is it gives people a fake sense of success, and while deferring payment, it allows upfront moneys to be spent more wastefully because it is there to spend. There is always a grand plan of how that money will be used to improve business, but do things always work the way they are planned, and do you ghet your money's worth? There is something to be said for the business man that believes in old fasion values of a dollar earned and a dollar that can be spent, apposed to spending tommorrows dollar today and deferring todays liabilties to tommorrow. It order not to loose your butt leasing, one must predict accurately the date of their end came, so they know when the leases have to be paid off. What if you aren't bought, as predicted at the end game? One of the things I've learned is that when you are eating fat (money available), people get lazy. When you are hungry and wondering how you are going to pay tommorrow's bill, all a sudden their is an urgency to succeed that not only is urgent but essential. Its amazing what a person can accomplish when they are backed against the wall and have no choice but to do it. Its amazing how much someone can save when they ahve a tight budget to conform to, and they know when the money is gone the money is gone. Wether it makes sense to lease is not the golden question. The golden question is, how will you spend the money that becomes available because you leased. That is what will seperate the winners from the loosers. One of the most basic concepts there is in accounting is, its much more beneficial to reduce your costs $100, than to make $100 more income, because the $100 income have additional costs that grow with it. I think leasing makes sense if you get good terms, and are short on cash flow, but if you are not frugal in spending along the way, one is just deffering their death by leasing. Whats important is that the money spent, has something tangible and of value (holds its value on a reoccuring basis). Things like high salaries that are spent and gone, or technology greater than one's need in a business with falling prices and rapid advancement, are monies spent that have little value after the fact. Disclaimer, this comment does not negate the importance to determine the amount of capitol (cash) that will be needed and securing it before progressing with a business plan. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Rick Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Are you making money?
asic concepts there is in accounting is, its much more beneficial to reduce your costs $100, than to make $100 more income, because the $100 income have additional costs that grow with it. I think leasing makes sense if you get good terms, and are short on cash flow, but if you are not frugal in spending along the way, one is just deffering their death by leasing. Whats important is that the money spent, has something tangible and of value (holds its value on a reoccuring basis). Things like high salaries that are spent and gone, or technology greater than one's need in a business with falling prices and rapid advancement, are monies spent that have little value after the fact. Disclaimer, this comment does not negate the importance to determine the amount of capitol (cash) that will be needed and securing it before progressing with a business plan. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Rick Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Are you making money? exactly the mistake my company made. Shoulda, woulda, coulda leased... 'cept in NJ, it's $125 contract labor, and $244 for installation (199 install / 45 first month), oh and no free towers, they're all (16 of them) $500 / month / each at LEAST No free lunch. So to answer the previous question #3, no you will not be making tons of money - you will be eating your shirt :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are you making money? Hi, Although he has spent some time and efforts, many of his numbers are WAY off: $50 installs (contract labor) customers paying $360 for installation $40 per month ARPU (for a startup WISP is not realistic today with $15 DSL) Just taking the installation numbers away completely changes this sheet... we are doing $99 installs and include a free Linksys wireless firewall/router. So now instead of making $15 per install, he will be losing $246. So now after 2 years, the company is making $11,736 per month profit but still shows $42,000 in debt (from the first 2 years) and hasn't paid anything back to the investors, banks, etc. Now, if you use the same sheet, lease the CPE ($5/mo per customer) and still buy the Linksys router for $40, the company is making $18,800 per month profit and has $98,000 in cash after 2 years. ;) Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17086669 I have not got to the spreadsheet, but the post was well worth the 5 minute read, and I'm looking forward to getting some numbers down on the spreadsheet. I think this could help some of us. Brian -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/478 - Release Date: 10/17/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Are you making money?
We will lease (usually borrow from the bank but I've done both) hardware for my end. Never for the customer end though. Other than my line of credit that is. Has it hurt our growth? Sure. We were already deep in debt though. I already know what a loosing battle that can turn into and how fast it can get there. If you work really smart and have little or no bad luck, leasing can be a good thing. So can owning the cpe. What are you gonna do when it's time to forklift upgrade 500+ subs though? Or what are you gonna do with the guy that comes in and offers $20 service against your $50 service? Especially when that happens (as it most likely will) when you are just getting ready to put new hardware out there. You know, the faster cheaper stuff. In another year and a half almost everything we have will be paid for. And we'll have good loyal customers. And we'll be in a position to ward off all but the most idiotic competitor's price wars. Things are still more than tight here. We're still trying to kill off debt that predates the wireless business. But it's all coming along. We're able to cashflow larger and larger network upgrades. And we've been getting the cc cards paid down (oh so slowly though). Another 24 months and it'll be a bright new day here. With NO need to run out and borrow more money for the next upgrades! life is good Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are you making money? The problem with Leasing, is that you ahve to keep your clients longer than your leases. Historically, WISPs make logrithmic growth with each year having more growth than the year before. Usually the profit from old business (subs with paid off leases), rarely covers costs of growth, as the growth in later years is so much grander. Sure leasing helps growth and makes the books look good. But what happens in your last year? The one where you potentially could loose all your subs? The year that you just had your largest growth, and largest amount of dollars on Leases for reoccuring liabilities. Will your business then last 3 more years to pay off those leases? The problem with Finance, is it gives people a fake sense of success, and while deferring payment, it allows upfront moneys to be spent more wastefully because it is there to spend. There is always a grand plan of how that money will be used to improve business, but do things always work the way they are planned, and do you ghet your money's worth? There is something to be said for the business man that believes in old fasion values of a dollar earned and a dollar that can be spent, apposed to spending tommorrows dollar today and deferring todays liabilties to tommorrow. It order not to loose your butt leasing, one must predict accurately the date of their end came, so they know when the leases have to be paid off. What if you aren't bought, as predicted at the end game? One of the things I've learned is that when you are eating fat (money available), people get lazy. When you are hungry and wondering how you are going to pay tommorrow's bill, all a sudden their is an urgency to succeed that not only is urgent but essential. Its amazing what a person can accomplish when they are backed against the wall and have no choice but to do it. Its amazing how much someone can save when they ahve a tight budget to conform to, and they know when the money is gone the money is gone. Wether it makes sense to lease is not the golden question. The golden question is, how will you spend the money that becomes available because you leased. That is what will seperate the winners from the loosers. One of the most basic concepts there is in accounting is, its much more beneficial to reduce your costs $100, than to make $100 more income, because the $100 income have additional costs that grow with it. I think leasing makes sense if you get good terms, and are short on cash flow, but if you are not frugal in spending along the way, one is just deffering their death by leasing. Whats important is that the money spent, has something tangible and of value (holds its value on a reoccuring basis). Things like high salaries that are spent and gone, or technology greater than one's need in a business with falling prices and rapid advancement, are monies spent that have little value after the fact. Disclaimer, this comment does not negate the importance to determine the amount of capit
Re: [WISPA] Are you making money?
I want to hit on a couple points: Leasing is financing is debt. You need a CPA and corporate attorney to run a successful business endeavor. You need a corporate structure to separate your business from your personal (and you need to NOT co-mingle). Everything should have a corporate shield. The tax write-off thing only works when you need the item or you might as well buy it instead of paying taxes. But tax write-offs only work for companies running cash flow positive. Hopefully your customer has signed a lease and contract with you for the 36 months. An iron-clad contract. Otherwise, every lease puts you at risk and on-the-hook. Yes you can move the CPE to another customer, but there is expense at that. Plus, losing customers. If you are losing customers, especially before the 36 months is up, you need to examine why that is. Unless they move out of service range, what is the reason they leave? If you tell me that it is price, I will tell you that you are a provider of dubious value and the customer never felt like he was getting his money's worth. Customer acquisition and installation are probably some of your largest costs. You should have a plan in place to insure that your customer churn is low. How many touches to the customer per year? Any upsell or cross-sell to customer? What is your Value Proposition? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Are you making money?
We've been over this before, The cost for a CPE is not $149. I don't benefit by reducing my CPE cost from $400 to $149, if My installtion costs go up, and my maintenance costs go up, and I loose prospects because the gear doesn't get the job done for what ever reasons (interference resilience / Cosmetics / Additional mounting hardware / Etc.) By lowering the CPE cost, I now have less tangible products to secure the funding for my company. A bank won't lend me money to cover my maintenance, a cost that has no value or new income associated with the expense. So why do I want to defer costs that could be leased ($500 quality radios), for expenses that can't be leased that take valuable cash out of my pocket (Salaries for maintenance and such). The fact is I can do an Alvarion CPE isntalltion in two hours, it meets the cosmetic requirement and signal quality of 99% of my prospects, so why would I want a $149 CPE, that didn't meet those requirements for 90% of my prospects? So the real numbers that are needed are business models that consider a $500 per CPE cost (whats required to get the job done) to finance through the leases. Its a tough call for $500 at residential prices. The $149 CPE lease model is flawed, because the $149 CPE has to many hidden costs that are not apparent to most WISPs until its to late and the costs have been incurred. The day the $149/CPE delivers what a WISP needs, the day I'll join your campaign of how the $149 CPE saves the Wireless Industry. But what happen to me is that I bought into the $149 CPE idea, made big plans, and then cancelled them after the fact because I learned after the fact it was a loosing business proposition. So what I really lost was 6-9month of time to market waiting for something that never was going to materialize. Understand that this opinion, is based on my market and geography that may be considerably different than yours. If you don;t have the same barriers and the $149 CPE does the job for you, then it may be a winner for you. But I'm done installing half assed equipment. I'm in the business of selling quality and maintenance free solutions. I'd rather identify the opportunity that is willing to pay for the quality solutions. It takes so long to build a reputation, and it takes so little time to ruin it. Trango 2.4ghz CPE = $475 in single quantity 36 month lease on same CPE = $12/month = $432 total cost So, even though I am paying interest for 36 months, the actual cost of the radio is less, but I don't have to come up with money for each sub that I install. Instead I am able to "run" the business from day to day without having to "get over the next hurdle" That I fully agree with. If you can finance for less than paying cash, thats a good thing. As long as after you bought $250 CPES, you didn;t realize that it was gear that you didn;t want, and needed another type of gear. If I bought 250 $149 CPEs 6 months ago, I'd have 250 CPEs still sitting on the shelf. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are you making money? Tom, The idea is that you lease the CPE equipment. It costs you $5 per month per sub (using $149 CPE), and you are breaking even on the install. So from day one I am making money on the sub (and generating positive cash flow). I can then use that money to grow the business (more bandwidth, bigger routers, more towers, etc) and continue over and over and over. Also, because I can lease 250 CPE at a time, I am getting a better price. Let's run some numbers: Trango 2.4ghz CPE = $475 in single quantity 36 month lease on same CPE = $12/month = $432 total cost So, even though I am paying interest for 36 months, the actual cost of the radio is less, but I don't have to come up with money for each sub that I install. Instead I am able to "run" the business from day to day without having to "get over the next hurdle". I can pay good salaries, have nice office space, etc. because the business runs cash flow positive from day one with EVERY customer. Plug the numbers into that spreadsheet that started this discussion and see which business model you would rather own in 2-3 years. There is nothing wrong with debt... you just have to manage it correctly. Each lease becomes an "operating expense", just like bandwidth, tower rent, etc. The best part is in 3 years, you own the CPE. Even if only 80% of them are still operating, that's 80% new CPE you don't have to buy. ;) For what it's worth, the "tax write-off thing" always gets me too. People almost talk like it's free money or something, instead
Re: [WISPA] Are you making money?
Tom, That's getting off the subject of this thread... if you bought 250 CPE, you should have probably done your homework first... or purchased 30 and installed them to make sure they worked for you. That's true with any radio, any brand or any product. :) Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: We've been over this before, The cost for a CPE is not $149. I don't benefit by reducing my CPE cost from $400 to $149, if My installtion costs go up, and my maintenance costs go up, and I loose prospects because the gear doesn't get the job done for what ever reasons (interference resilience / Cosmetics / Additional mounting hardware / Etc.) By lowering the CPE cost, I now have less tangible products to secure the funding for my company. A bank won't lend me money to cover my maintenance, a cost that has no value or new income associated with the expense. So why do I want to defer costs that could be leased ($500 quality radios), for expenses that can't be leased that take valuable cash out of my pocket (Salaries for maintenance and such). The fact is I can do an Alvarion CPE isntalltion in two hours, it meets the cosmetic requirement and signal quality of 99% of my prospects, so why would I want a $149 CPE, that didn't meet those requirements for 90% of my prospects? So the real numbers that are needed are business models that consider a $500 per CPE cost (whats required to get the job done) to finance through the leases. Its a tough call for $500 at residential prices. The $149 CPE lease model is flawed, because the $149 CPE has to many hidden costs that are not apparent to most WISPs until its to late and the costs have been incurred. The day the $149/CPE delivers what a WISP needs, the day I'll join your campaign of how the $149 CPE saves the Wireless Industry. But what happen to me is that I bought into the $149 CPE idea, made big plans, and then cancelled them after the fact because I learned after the fact it was a loosing business proposition. So what I really lost was 6-9month of time to market waiting for something that never was going to materialize. Understand that this opinion, is based on my market and geography that may be considerably different than yours. If you don;t have the same barriers and the $149 CPE does the job for you, then it may be a winner for you. But I'm done installing half assed equipment. I'm in the business of selling quality and maintenance free solutions. I'd rather identify the opportunity that is willing to pay for the quality solutions. It takes so long to build a reputation, and it takes so little time to ruin it. Trango 2.4ghz CPE = $475 in single quantity 36 month lease on same CPE = $12/month = $432 total cost So, even though I am paying interest for 36 months, the actual cost of the radio is less, but I don't have to come up with money for each sub that I install. Instead I am able to "run" the business from day to day without having to "get over the next hurdle" That I fully agree with. If you can finance for less than paying cash, thats a good thing. As long as after you bought $250 CPES, you didn;t realize that it was gear that you didn;t want, and needed another type of gear. If I bought 250 $149 CPEs 6 months ago, I'd have 250 CPEs still sitting on the shelf. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are you making money? Tom, The idea is that you lease the CPE equipment. It costs you $5 per month per sub (using $149 CPE), and you are breaking even on the install. So from day one I am making money on the sub (and generating positive cash flow). I can then use that money to grow the business (more bandwidth, bigger routers, more towers, etc) and continue over and over and over. Also, because I can lease 250 CPE at a time, I am getting a better price. Let's run some numbers: Trango 2.4ghz CPE = $475 in single quantity 36 month lease on same CPE = $12/month = $432 total cost So, even though I am paying interest for 36 months, the actual cost of the radio is less, but I don't have to come up with money for each sub that I install. Instead I am able to "run" the business from day to day without having to "get over the next hurdle". I can pay good salaries, have nice office space, etc. because the business runs cash flow positive from day one with EVERY customer. Plug the numbers into that spreadsheet that started this discussion and see which business model you would rather own in 2-3 years. There is nothing wrong with debt... you just have to manage it correctly. Each lease becomes an "operating expense", just like bandwidth, to
