Re: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic
Be careful what you wish for. What happens when your upstream say that your traffic goes to the bottom of queue unless you pay an extra $x,xxx.xx per moth? Will that make your customers happy? Can you afford an extra charge to make sure that your address space is in the fast lane? The biggest problem I see here is that I buy service from provider A who is peering with provider B. I pay for the super fast connection from provider A because they are my upstream. I am trying to access a server on provider B. Provider A is not on the fast lane with provider B because they did not want to pay the extra charge. So in the long run my paying provider A for faster access is a waste for anything not on their network. Now imagine this scenario if your traffic crosses 6 different networks to get to its final designation. I see companies like Google having a cow and buying the entire internet so they can control access from end to end. They have already threatened to do this. Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic All for it and I think the postal service analogy a good one. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless George Rogato wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070906/ap_on_hi_te/internet_fees_justice_department Comments? ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ a href=http://mail.shwisp.net/spam/dspam.cgi?template=historyuser=tetherowretrain=spamsignatureID=16,46e051c3315731768243261;!DSPAM:16,46e051c3315731768243261!/a ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic
Sam Tetherow wrote: All for it and I think the postal service analogy a good one. Not really. With the USPS, there's only one outfit handling your mail: the USPS. An Internet packet can pass through a half-dozen different companies' networks between endpoints. This is the equivalent of your Express Mail package from California to New York being delayed because you didn't pay extra to the truck driver in Iowa. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic
No different than if my provider says my rate goes up at the end of the month. I hold them to the contract that I signed and if my contract is up I shop around for another provider. You example would be the same as if A and B were not peered so if it was that crucial to have fast access to B you would find someone with a better 'peering' to B for your connection. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Jory Privett wrote: Be careful what you wish for. What happens when your upstream say that your traffic goes to the bottom of queue unless you pay an extra $x,xxx.xx per moth? Will that make your customers happy? Can you afford an extra charge to make sure that your address space is in the fast lane? The biggest problem I see here is that I buy service from provider A who is peering with provider B. I pay for the super fast connection from provider A because they are my upstream. I am trying to access a server on provider B. Provider A is not on the fast lane with provider B because they did not want to pay the extra charge. So in the long run my paying provider A for faster access is a waste for anything not on their network. Now imagine this scenario if your traffic crosses 6 different networks to get to its final designation. I see companies like Google having a cow and buying the entire internet so they can control access from end to end. They have already threatened to do this. Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic All for it and I think the postal service analogy a good one. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless George Rogato wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070906/ap_on_hi_te/internet_fees_justice_department Comments? ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ a href=http://mail.shwisp.net/spam/dspam.cgi?template=historyuser=tetherowretrain=spamsignatureID=16,46e051c3315731768243261;/a ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ a href=http://mail.shwisp.net/spam/dspam.cgi?template=historyuser=tetherowretrain=spamsignatureID=16,46e05a9b43367888450014;!DSPAM:16,46e05a9b43367888450014!/a ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until
Re: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic
When I listened to the FTC's Net Neutrality debate, both sides made sense. One side was the content providers and the other side was the connectivity providers. Content didn't want to pay, and connectivity was looking for payment for the use of their network. I just want to know, where do I send the bill to? ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic
Jory Privett wrote: Be careful what you wish for. What happens when your upstream say that your traffic goes to the bottom of queue unless you pay an extra $x,xxx.xx per moth? Will that make your customers happy? Can you afford an extra charge to make sure that your address space is in the fast lane? I expect that 99% of the web traffic will continue exactly as it is The whole point of this is that customers are more and more demanding QoS guarantees that are almost impossible to produce without being able to charge more for them, and for some applications are required. I'll give you an example VoIP. In order for it to work well, VoIP packets need to be given priority. Unfortunately if you don't charge extra for this priority traffic, then a certain segment of your customer base will figure out how to tag *all* of their packets for priority use. Gaming would be another example. During peak usage times, gamers suffer since latency goes up slightly just because links are in use. If the gamer (or a large gaming server) wants to pay extra for a latency guarantee (delivered by prioritizing packets ahead of others), then so be it. It is extremely costly to provide a network which will provide *at all times* extremely low latency and jitter for *all* traffic. What most providers want to be able to do is to say to customers, if a little added jitter and latency during peak times is unacceptable, then pay us extra for that traffic and we will guarantee that it will be put at the first of the line. If you don't pay us extra, your experience will continue to be about what it is today. -forrest ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic
Ok so I pay you the extra to guarantee a certain minimum latency. I if I am connecting to a server on another network how will you provide that? You can not set the QoS for someone else's network much less 3 or 4 of them that my traffic has to cross to get to is final destination. Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: Forrest W. Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic Jory Privett wrote: Be careful what you wish for. What happens when your upstream say that your traffic goes to the bottom of queue unless you pay an extra $x,xxx.xx per moth? Will that make your customers happy? Can you afford an extra charge to make sure that your address space is in the fast lane? I expect that 99% of the web traffic will continue exactly as it is The whole point of this is that customers are more and more demanding QoS guarantees that are almost impossible to produce without being able to charge more for them, and for some applications are required. I'll give you an example VoIP. In order for it to work well, VoIP packets need to be given priority. Unfortunately if you don't charge extra for this priority traffic, then a certain segment of your customer base will figure out how to tag *all* of their packets for priority use. Gaming would be another example. During peak usage times, gamers suffer since latency goes up slightly just because links are in use. If the gamer (or a large gaming server) wants to pay extra for a latency guarantee (delivered by prioritizing packets ahead of others), then so be it. It is extremely costly to provide a network which will provide *at all times* extremely low latency and jitter for *all* traffic. What most providers want to be able to do is to say to customers, if a little added jitter and latency during peak times is unacceptable, then pay us extra for that traffic and we will guarantee that it will be put at the first of the line. If you don't pay us extra, your experience will continue to be about what it is today. -forrest ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic
Where is it that people don't think content providers pay? Did I miss something where google is getting a free net connection? Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless George Rogato wrote: When I listened to the FTC's Net Neutrality debate, both sides made sense. One side was the content providers and the other side was the connectivity providers. Content didn't want to pay, and connectivity was looking for payment for the use of their network. I just want to know, where do I send the bill to? ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ a href=http://mail.shwisp.net/spam/dspam.cgi?template=historyuser=tetherowretrain=spamsignatureID=16,46e06407106621513398925;!DSPAM:16,46e06407106621513398925!/a ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic
However, the agency said it will continue to monitor and enforce any anticompetitive conduct to ensure a competitive broadband marketplace. SURE Just like they did the telcos when we could get access to the lines to offer DSL. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 2:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070906/ap_on_hi_te/internet_fees_justice_depart ment Comments? ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.7/992 - Release Date: 9/6/2007 8:36 AM -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 2106 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.7/992 - Release Date: 9/6/2007 8:36 AM --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic
I think ISPs should be free to do this to end users, but definately not on the backbone or wholesale services. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 2:06 PM Subject: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070906/ap_on_hi_te/internet_fees_justice_department Comments? ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic
So connectivity providers are hurting themselves through competition and are trying to find new ways to make money. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic When I listened to the FTC's Net Neutrality debate, both sides made sense. One side was the content providers and the other side was the connectivity providers. Content didn't want to pay, and connectivity was looking for payment for the use of their network. I just want to know, where do I send the bill to? ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Feds OK fee for priority Web traffic
Jory Privett wrote: Ok so I pay you the extra to guarantee a certain minimum latency. I if I am connecting to a server on another network how will you provide that? You can not set the QoS for someone else's network much less 3 or 4 of them that my traffic has to cross to get to is final destination. Because I have negotiated QoS with my upstream, and they have negotiated it with their peers. Alternatively, If I'm a large enough ISP, someone like Vonage may purchase a line directly into my network and pay me to deliver 2 way traffic at a higher priority to their customers. -forrest ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
