Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
I don't know where I got that from now. It must have been related to reading 60+ pages of that report that day. Must have read into something dealing with MPE that wasn't really there. For those of you interested in reading it, the only important parts, really, are pages 100 - 112... and not all of those are of particular concern to the operator. I believe they are referencing obstructions in that statement, such as terrain, buildings, etc. It is impossible to have an antenna of 0 dBi, and that is the only antenna that will receive signals equally in all directions. They even require a 6 dB antenna minimum, which varies drastically with each antenna model as to it's radiation pattern. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement Mike, Where are you reading this on page 43? And I've made it farther back in the report... Is Appendix B (Final Rules) the actual rule? That doesn't look good, see Antenna Requirements on page 101. Not only is the transmit antenna limited to 30 meters high, but the receive antenna must be 10 m high. Sounds like a single story ranch house is going to need a mast. That won't be popular. Also, it sounds like a yagi isn't acceptable as a receive antenna: The antenna system shall be capable of receiving signals of protected services equally in all directions. Sounds like an omni to me. I hope I'm reading this wrong! -John On Nov 19, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
Mike, On page 5 in section 8 (Fixed devices), it says fixed devices will be required to operate with antennas mounted outdoors ... I suppose you could run coax from a TVBD inside, but it seems like the current method of POE to an outdoor device is preferred? So we are still looking at professional installation, outdoors? John On Nov 19, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
Yes, thats because the height requirement was for facilitating accuracy of sensing, and sensing no longer being the method the rules rely on for interference avoidance. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:48 PM Subject: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.7/1799 - Release Date: 11/19/2008 8:58 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
I think signal propagation characteristics like diffraction are a much bigger issue at low frequencies closer to the ground. Here's a link that discusses some of the issues http://users.ictp.it/~radionet/ghana1998/LINKLOSS/INDEX.HTM http://users.ictp.it/%7Eradionet/ghana1998/LINKLOSS/INDEX.HTM Dave Hulsebus Tom DeReggi wrote: Yes, thats because the height requirement was for facilitating accuracy of sensing, and sensing no longer being the method the rules rely on for interference avoidance. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:48 PM Subject: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.7/1799 - Release Date: 11/19/2008 8:58 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
My read is that any 'portable or nomadic' device would be 100 or 40 mW EiRP and therefore not very useable for user self install unless a client was close to the AP. Kevin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Valenti Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 2:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement Mike, On page 5 in section 8 (Fixed devices), it says fixed devices will be required to operate with antennas mounted outdoors ... I suppose you could run coax from a TVBD inside, but it seems like the current method of POE to an outdoor device is preferred? So we are still looking at professional installation, outdoors? John On Nov 19, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
Mike, Where are you reading this on page 43? And I've made it farther back in the report... Is Appendix B (Final Rules) the actual rule? That doesn't look good, see Antenna Requirements on page 101. Not only is the transmit antenna limited to 30 meters high, but the receive antenna must be 10 m high. Sounds like a single story ranch house is going to need a mast. That won't be popular. Also, it sounds like a yagi isn't acceptable as a receive antenna: The antenna system shall be capable of receiving signals of protected services equally in all directions. Sounds like an omni to me. I hope I'm reading this wrong! -John On Nov 19, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
You could have a lower gain omni as just a sense antenna. - Original Message - From: John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement Mike, Where are you reading this on page 43? And I've made it farther back in the report... Is Appendix B (Final Rules) the actual rule? That doesn't look good, see Antenna Requirements on page 101. Not only is the transmit antenna limited to 30 meters high, but the receive antenna must be 10 m high. Sounds like a single story ranch house is going to need a mast. That won't be popular. Also, it sounds like a yagi isn't acceptable as a receive antenna: The antenna system shall be capable of receiving signals of protected services equally in all directions. Sounds like an omni to me. I hope I'm reading this wrong! -John On Nov 19, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
With the cost and loss's of RG6 cable, it might sense to have all the active stuff inside. John Valenti wrote: Mike, On page 5 in section 8 (Fixed devices), it says "fixed devices will be required to operate with antennas mounted outdoors ..." I suppose you could run coax from a TVBD inside, but it seems like the current method of POE to an outdoor device is preferred? So we are still looking at professional installation, outdoors? John On Nov 19, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
