Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Extending an external antenna
Others have responded with some sane (and good) advice - you will have too much cable loss and the cable will be expensive/hard to work with in a conduit. I have done a point-to-point installation with close to 250' of coax (up a tower), but placed an amplifier at 100' to compensate for the cable loss. It was easier to climb to 100' for servicing the amp than placing the AP at the 230' level with the antenna. I hate using amplifiers (I don't recommend their use), but needed to in this situation. In your situation, it would be better to extend the data via fiber or copper (cat5/6) and mount the AP in a NEMA enclosure. I like the idea of using fiber as it gives you lightning protection from your network gear. If you are using copper, I'd definitely recommend a lightning arrestor on the cat5/6. I'd also recommend a lightning arrestor on the antenna connection to the AP. Other points to look at - - You may need a heater and/or fan(s) to keep the temperature in the enclosure within the operating temperature of the AP. - As mentioned above, lighting protection should be used on any outdoor installation. even a 12" fiber jumper works as great lighting protection. - Power either locally or use PoE (if you are using copper). I've seen some installations that even use solar cells and batteries for local power. Remember that if you use PoE, you will need lighting arrestors that support PoE on the cat5/6. >>-> Stan Brooks - CWNA/CWSP Emory University Network Communications Division 404.727.0226 [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: WLANstan Yahoo!: WLANstan MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Original Message From: Lee Weers Date: 5/19/2006 11:41 AM We have a situation in which we need to cover our baseball and softball fields wirelessly. There is currently no infrastructure there. What we are looking to do is put a high gain antenna on the football stadiums scoreboard. There is a conduit that we can run some coax through out to the scoreboard. My question is this: 1. Can you extend an antenna from an AP 250 ft? (That's how long it is to the scoreboard) 2. What kind of coax do we need to use to do a/b/g? We would like to mount the ap inside of the building and then just extend the external antenna to the scoreboard. Thank you, Lee Weers Assistant Director for Network Services Central College IT Services (641) 628-7675 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] getting started with 802.1X?
- Original Message - From: "Lee Badman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] getting started with 802.1X? All depends on what you're trying to do with 1x. Just authorization? Plus encryption? In an Active Directory environment? etc Both. No AD. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Extending an external antenna
You would have at least 7 dB loss at 2.4 G and 13 dB at 5 G, too much. Why not do this, Get some cheap fiber 100TX transceivers and have a custom long cable made (I have done all this for less then $300 before). Mount the AP in a weather proof box. http://www.hyperlinktech.com/ has wireless supplies. In this way you can draw power from the scoreboard and the fiber will give you lightning isolation for your network. Raymond's solution is good also. It really depends on the coverage you need. Martin Flagg Network Administrator Hiram College From: King, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 5/19/2006 11:51 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Extending an external antenna > -Original Message- > From: Lee Weers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > 1. Can you extend an antenna from an AP 250 ft? (That's how > long it is to the scoreboard) Yes, you can. But it won't work very well. >2. What kind of coax do we > need to use to do a/b/g? Expensive, and one for each Band. (One for A, one for B/G) I'm guessing much better than LMR 600 we used for our 50ft runs. > We would like to mount the ap inside of the building and then > just extend the external antenna to the scoreboard. > Why not run an outdoor rated Cat 5 cable up the pipe, and mount an outdoor Access point at the antenna site. Several companys make these units. Depending on how big the complex is, you could even look into Mesh Units, (this would be your base station) and then put a repeater unit out at the pressbox (You need power and line of sight) of each of the field you want to cover. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. The WatchGuard Firebox which protects your network detected a message which may not be safe. Cause : The file type may not be safe. Content type : application/ms-tnef File name: winmail.dat Virus status : No information. Action : The Firebox deleted winmail.dat. Your network administrator can not restore this attachment. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Extending an external antenna
Title: Extending an external antenna Howie said it very well. As someone who works at a company that engineers coaxial antenna systems, you do NOT want to run coax 250’. Signal loss and expense are both excellent reasons why this is not feasible. Also, you will have separate external antenna connectors for 2.4 and 5-6 Ghz so you would either need a diplexer or two cable runs. Run cat5/6 to either an outdoor PoE AP or a PoE AP in a NEMA enclosure, and connect to a dual band (2.4 and 5-6 Ghz) directional antenna that has the proper pattern (120-180 degrees or so depending on where the scoreboard is). Of course I’m not sure of what type and how many client devices you are planning on supporting with the single AP, but that should be considered as well. Also, if you buy a dual band antenna that is 2.4 Ghz and 5.8 Ghz bands, then you will need to set your 802.11a channels to support only U-NII 3 which is the 5.8 Ghz outdoor frequencies. Hope that helps and not confuses… From: Howie Frisch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 10:51 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Extending an external antenna Lee: Unless you go for very low loss COAX, which is both expensive and thick - the same stuff they run up cellular towers - the loss in the cable will likely be more than anything that you can get out of an antenna. I think that you may be far better off looking for an outdoor access point, then running Ethernet (with POE) or separate ethernet and power (if allowed) through your conduit. This would let you put the "radio" a lot closer to the antenna and would let you operate with a short COAX run of a few feet. You'll pay more for the outdoor access point, but you'll get more than that back in cable and installation costs - plus the whole thing is likely to work better. Howie Frisch UTStarcom, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lee Weers wrote: We have a situation in which we need to cover our baseball and softball fields wirelessly. There is currently no infrastructure there. What we are looking to do is put a high gain antenna on the football stadiums scoreboard. There is a conduit that we can run some coax through out to the scoreboard. My question is this: 1. Can you extend an antenna from an AP 250 ft? (That's how long it is to the scoreboard) 2. What kind of coax do we need to use to do a/b/g? We would like to mount the ap inside of the building and then just extend the external antenna to the scoreboard. Thank you, Lee Weers Assistant Director for Network Services Central College IT Services (641) 628-7675 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] getting started with 802.1X?
All depends on what you're trying to do with 1x. Just authorization? Plus encryption? In an Active Directory environment? etc I have found that .1x is easier to tackle if you have a clear sense of what you want to get, and what your broader environment that .1x must work within is. Then you can focus on YOUR .1x, instead of the potentially overwhelming and wildly confusing general topic. One man's O-pinion... Lee Lee Badman Network Engineer CWNA, CWSP Information Technology and Services Syracuse University (315) 443-3003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5/19/2006 12:07 PM >>> Anyone got any pointers to any good overview docs on 1X? -- Steve Fletty Network Design Engineer University of Minnesota ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
getting started with 802.1X?
Anyone got any pointers to any good overview docs on 1X? -- Steve Fletty Network Design Engineer University of Minnesota ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Extending an external antenna
Her is a site that has a loss calculator. http://www.timesmicrowave.com/cgi-bin/calculate.pl From: Lee Weers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 5/19/2006 11:41 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Extending an external antenna We have a situation in which we need to cover our baseball and softball fields wirelessly. There is currently no infrastructure there. What we are looking to do is put a high gain antenna on the football stadiums scoreboard. There is a conduit that we can run some coax through out to the scoreboard. My question is this: 1. Can you extend an antenna from an AP 250 ft? (That's how long it is to the scoreboard) 2. What kind of coax do we need to use to do a/b/g? We would like to mount the ap inside of the building and then just extend the external antenna to the scoreboard. Thank you, Lee Weers Assistant Director for Network Services Central College IT Services (641) 628-7675 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. The WatchGuard Firebox which protects your network detected a message which may not be safe. Cause : The file type may not be safe. Content type : application/ms-tnef File name: winmail.dat Virus status : No information. Action : The Firebox deleted winmail.dat. Your network administrator can not restore this attachment. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Extending an external antenna
Lee: Unless you go for very low loss COAX, which is both expensive and thick - the same stuff they run up cellular towers - the loss in the cable will likely be more than anything that you can get out of an antenna. I think that you may be far better off looking for an outdoor access point, then running Ethernet (with POE) or separate ethernet and power (if allowed) through your conduit. This would let you put the "radio" a lot closer to the antenna and would let you operate with a short COAX run of a few feet. You'll pay more for the outdoor access point, but you'll get more than that back in cable and installation costs - plus the whole thing is likely to work better. Howie Frisch UTStarcom, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lee Weers wrote: Extending an external antenna We have a situation in which we need to cover our baseball and softball fields wirelessly. There is currently no infrastructure there. What we are looking to do is put a high gain antenna on the football stadiums scoreboard. There is a conduit that we can run some coax through out to the scoreboard. My question is this: 1. Can you extend an antenna from an AP 250 ft? (That's how long it is to the scoreboard) 2. What kind of coax do we need to use to do a/b/g? We would like to mount the ap inside of the building and then just extend the external antenna to the scoreboard. Thank you, Lee Weers Assistant Director for Network Services Central College IT Services (641) 628-7675 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Extending an external antenna
> -Original Message- > From: Lee Weers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > 1. Can you extend an antenna from an AP 250 ft? (That's how > long it is to the scoreboard) Yes, you can. But it won't work very well. >2. What kind of coax do we > need to use to do a/b/g? Expensive, and one for each Band. (One for A, one for B/G) I'm guessing much better than LMR 600 we used for our 50ft runs. > We would like to mount the ap inside of the building and then > just extend the external antenna to the scoreboard. > Why not run an outdoor rated Cat 5 cable up the pipe, and mount an outdoor Access point at the antenna site. Several companys make these units. Depending on how big the complex is, you could even look into Mesh Units, (this would be your base station) and then put a repeater unit out at the pressbox (You need power and line of sight) of each of the field you want to cover. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Extending an external antenna
Title: Extending an external antenna We’ve successfully used microwave cable for b/g/a for shorter distances, up to 50’ on LMR400 but I’d recommend LMR400 up to only 10’, LMR600 up to 50 or 75’. I’ve never tried anything that far but a panel antenna and perhaps LMR900 would be a way to go. An omni will pick up a lot of noise and you will want to minimize noise especially given the distances. LMR900 will work up to 6GHz. Mike - Michael Ruiz Network and Systems Engineer Hobart and William Smith Colleges From: Lee Weers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 11:42 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Extending an external antenna We have a situation in which we need to cover our baseball and softball fields wirelessly. There is currently no infrastructure there. What we are looking to do is put a high gain antenna on the football stadiums scoreboard. There is a conduit that we can run some coax through out to the scoreboard. My question is this: 1. Can you extend an antenna from an AP 250 ft? (That's how long it is to the scoreboard) 2. What kind of coax do we need to use to do a/b/g? We would like to mount the ap inside of the building and then just extend the external antenna to the scoreboard. Thank you, Lee Weers Assistant Director for Network Services Central College IT Services (641) 628-7675 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Extending an external antenna
Title: Extending an external antenna We have a situation in which we need to cover our baseball and softball fields wirelessly. There is currently no infrastructure there. What we are looking to do is put a high gain antenna on the football stadiums scoreboard. There is a conduit that we can run some coax through out to the scoreboard. My question is this: 1. Can you extend an antenna from an AP 250 ft? (That's how long it is to the scoreboard) 2. What kind of coax do we need to use to do a/b/g? We would like to mount the ap inside of the building and then just extend the external antenna to the scoreboard. Thank you, Lee Weers Assistant Director for Network Services Central College IT Services (641) 628-7675 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
