RE: wireless printers in dorms
Banning 2.4 GHz would ban a large portion of the consumer PCs and mobile devices and all current game consoles. I know that would not work here. We initially only offered IPTV on 5GHz n and had to expand the offering to 2.4GHz due to complaints from students. Excluding game consoles would also be a very big issue here. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: Adam Forsyth [mailto:forsy...@luther.edu] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 8:41 PM Subject: Re: wireless printers in dorms Has anyone declared 2.4Ghz hopeless and made a policy declaring that users that want a working well performing wireless network connection need to make arrangements to connect to the 5Ghz network? If a policy like that could fly, then it would be easier to run a 5Ghz network with great performance for all of the laptops to connect to. 2.4Ghz could become a best effort waste land polluted by all of the printers with their rogue ssid's, slowed down by the wii's that insist on making 802.11B connections before they'll make 802.11G connections, interfered with by the bluetooth, wifi-direct, etc. Of course, I guess this is only a good idea until 5Ghz becomes the new 2.4Ghz. I suppose it's probably only a matter of time until devices like printers have dual band radios and can cause 5Ghz problems too. On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 2:36 PM, Tom O'Donnell to...@maine.edu wrote: I left out a couple factors... I don't know if the printers are printing wirelessly, or that students even intend them to. They just show up with wireless enabled, and whatever education we've done on the subject doesn't seem to help. Sometimes we'll find a printer and the person has a USB cable. Nope, I'm not using wireless on my printer, just the USB. But they don't realize the wireless is on. We don't intend for them to work, at any rate. We prohibit it, but going door to door hasn't worked completely. Word gets around the dorms, and students hide their printers :) -- Tom O'Donnell Senior Manager of Network and Server Systems Information Technology Services University of Maine at Farmington (207) 778-7336 On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Julian Y Koh kohs...@northwestern.edu wrote: On Oct 30, 2012, at 13:53 , Tom O'Donnell to...@maine.edu wrote: I was wondering how other schools handle wireless printers in the dorms. This seems to be the year everyone showed up with one, and they're causing connectivity problems in our 2.4GHz space. How well do the printers work anyway wirelessly? Depending on the service advertisement protocols and printing protocols used, the client types, your authentication requirements (since most printers don't do WPA2-Enterprise/802.1X) and your subnetting/address assignment scheme, I wonder how successful people are at actually getting these things to work anyway. -- Julian Y. Koh Manager, Network Transport, Telecommunications and Network Services Northwestern University Information Technology (NUIT) 2001 Sheridan Road #G-166 Evanston, IL 60208 847-467-5780 NUIT Web Site: http://www.it.northwestern.edu/ PGP Public Key:http://bt.ittns.northwestern.edu/julian/pgppubkey.html ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. -- Adam Forsyth Director of Network and Systems Luther College Library and Information Services 700 College Drive Decorah, IA 52101 563-387-1402 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: wireless printers in dorms
To me, this whole mess has a lot of contributing factors in the aggregate. Lazy/dated/stuck-in-time client device makers, policy that is either lacking, not enforced, or impossible to practically enforce, merchants (like campus bookstores)not engaged or sympathetic to campus IT when it comes to getting the message out about what works and doesn't in the dorms, and users that are either hyper-clueless or hyper-savvy. Then there's the philosophical debates- the dorm should be just like home, where people can do anything they want versus the dorms are more like a hotel- you play by the rules of temporary lodging etc. And the fact that we tend to have zero control over client types, device health, and nuances like OS revisions and driver status per client. Sprinkle in each WLAN vendor's bugs and quirks for good measure, as standards-based WLAN is a bad joke these days from the antenna back. Put it all together, and one thing is certain- it's extremely difficult to promise any kind of per-user bandwidth on even the best WLAN when the RF environment is so variable, and there isn't enough staff in the world to run around trying to squelch every bit of interference that pops up where you have a large dorm environment. Happy sunny Wednesday, dagnammit. Love your show, Curmudgeonly in Syracuse. Lee H. Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME Information Technology and Services (ITS) Syracuse University 315 443-3003 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 7:44 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] wireless printers in dorms Banning 2.4 GHz would ban a large portion of the consumer PCs and mobile devices and all current game consoles. I know that would not work here. We initially only offered IPTV on 5GHz n and had to expand the offering to 2.4GHz due to complaints from students. Excluding game consoles would also be a very big issue here. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: Adam Forsyth [mailto:forsy...@luther.edu] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 8:41 PM Subject: Re: wireless printers in dorms Has anyone declared 2.4Ghz hopeless and made a policy declaring that users that want a working well performing wireless network connection need to make arrangements to connect to the 5Ghz network? If a policy like that could fly, then it would be easier to run a 5Ghz network with great performance for all of the laptops to connect to. 2.4Ghz could become a best effort waste land polluted by all of the printers with their rogue ssid's, slowed down by the wii's that insist on making 802.11B connections before they'll make 802.11G connections, interfered with by the bluetooth, wifi-direct, etc. Of course, I guess this is only a good idea until 5Ghz becomes the new 2.4Ghz. I suppose it's probably only a matter of time until devices like printers have dual band radios and can cause 5Ghz problems too. On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 2:36 PM, Tom O'Donnell to...@maine.edu wrote: I left out a couple factors... I don't know if the printers are printing wirelessly, or that students even intend them to. They just show up with wireless enabled, and whatever education we've done on the subject doesn't seem to help. Sometimes we'll find a printer and the person has a USB cable. Nope, I'm not using wireless on my printer, just the USB. But they don't realize the wireless is on. We don't intend for them to work, at any rate. We prohibit it, but going door to door hasn't worked completely. Word gets around the dorms, and students hide their printers :) -- Tom O'Donnell Senior Manager of Network and Server Systems Information Technology Services University of Maine at Farmington (207) 778-7336 On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Julian Y Koh kohs...@northwestern.edu wrote: On Oct 30, 2012, at 13:53 , Tom O'Donnell to...@maine.edu wrote: I was wondering how other schools handle wireless printers in the dorms. This seems to be the year everyone showed up with one, and they're causing connectivity problems in our 2.4GHz space. How well do the printers work anyway wirelessly? Depending on the service advertisement protocols and printing protocols used, the client types, your authentication requirements (since most printers don't do WPA2-Enterprise/802.1X) and your subnetting/address assignment scheme, I wonder how successful people are at actually getting these things to work anyway. -- Julian Y. Koh Manager, Network Transport, Telecommunications and Network Services Northwestern University Information Technology (NUIT) 2001 Sheridan Road #G-166 Evanston, IL 60208 847-467-5780
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] wireless printers in dorms
Is anyone running a separate SSID just for these types of devices that don't do 802.1X (printers, xbox, wii, nook, etc.)? The previous institution that I was at had one of these that allowed students to connect these devices after registering the MAC address of the device. And Penn is currently in the process of testing different solutions to provide access to these kinds of devices. -Charles On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:21 AM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: To me, this whole mess has a lot of contributing factors in the aggregate. Lazy/dated/stuck-in-time client device makers, policy that is either lacking, not enforced, or impossible to practically enforce, merchants (like campus bookstores)not engaged or sympathetic to campus IT when it comes to getting the message out about what works and doesn't in the dorms, and users that are either hyper-clueless or hyper-savvy. Then there's the philosophical debates- the dorm should be just like home, where people can do anything they want versus the dorms are more like a hotel- you play by the rules of temporary lodging etc. And the fact that we tend to have zero control over client types, device health, and nuances like OS revisions and driver status per client. Sprinkle in each WLAN vendor's bugs and quirks for good measure, as standards-based WLAN is a bad joke these days from the antenna back. Put it all together, and one thing is certain- it's extremely difficult to promise any kind of per-user bandwidth on even the best WLAN when the RF environment is so variable, and there isn't enough staff in the world to run around trying to squelch every bit of interference that pops up where you have a large dorm environment. Happy sunny Wednesday, dagnammit. Love your show, Curmudgeonly in Syracuse. Lee H. Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME Information Technology and Services (ITS) Syracuse University 315 443-3003 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 7:44 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] wireless printers in dorms Banning 2.4 GHz would ban a large portion of the consumer PCs and mobile devices and all current game consoles. I know that would not work here. We initially only offered IPTV on 5GHz n and had to expand the offering to 2.4GHz due to complaints from students. Excluding game consoles would also be a very big issue here. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: Adam Forsyth [mailto:forsy...@luther.edu] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 8:41 PM Subject: Re: wireless printers in dorms Has anyone declared 2.4Ghz hopeless and made a policy declaring that users that want a working well performing wireless network connection need to make arrangements to connect to the 5Ghz network? If a policy like that could fly, then it would be easier to run a 5Ghz network with great performance for all of the laptops to connect to. 2.4Ghz could become a best effort waste land polluted by all of the printers with their rogue ssid's, slowed down by the wii's that insist on making 802.11B connections before they'll make 802.11G connections, interfered with by the bluetooth, wifi-direct, etc. Of course, I guess this is only a good idea until 5Ghz becomes the new 2.4Ghz. I suppose it's probably only a matter of time until devices like printers have dual band radios and can cause 5Ghz problems too. On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 2:36 PM, Tom O'Donnell to...@maine.edu wrote: I left out a couple factors... I don't know if the printers are printing wirelessly, or that students even intend them to. They just show up with wireless enabled, and whatever education we've done on the subject doesn't seem to help. Sometimes we'll find a printer and the person has a USB cable. Nope, I'm not using wireless on my printer, just the USB. But they don't realize the wireless is on. We don't intend for them to work, at any rate. We prohibit it, but going door to door hasn't worked completely. Word gets around the dorms, and students hide their printers :) -- Tom O'Donnell Senior Manager of Network and Server Systems Information Technology Services University of Maine at Farmington (207) 778-7336 On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Julian Y Koh kohs...@northwestern.edu wrote: On Oct 30, 2012, at 13:53 , Tom O'Donnell to...@maine.edu wrote: I was wondering how other schools handle wireless printers in the dorms. This seems to be the year everyone showed up with one, and they're causing connectivity problems in our 2.4GHz space. How well do the printers
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] wireless printers in dorms
Hi Charles, Yes, we are running a separate SSID for that kind of stuff. We have a web form where students register MAC addresses. We subscribe to the dorm should be just like home theory that Lee described. We do our best to support whatever gaming and entertainment devices that show up. We don't do wireless printers though. They just don't work well on big networks, as some folks have mentioned. Most of them expect the users to use their software clients to discover the printer on their home networks, which doesn't work well when there are thousands of devices in the subnet. Matt Barber '06 Network and Systems Manager Morrisville State College 315-684-6053 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Charles Rumford Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:35 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] wireless printers in dorms Is anyone running a separate SSID just for these types of devices that don't do 802.1X (printers, xbox, wii, nook, etc.)? The previous institution that I was at had one of these that allowed students to connect these devices after registering the MAC address of the device. And Penn is currently in the process of testing different solutions to provide access to these kinds of devices. -Charles On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:21 AM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: To me, this whole mess has a lot of contributing factors in the aggregate. Lazy/dated/stuck-in-time client device makers, policy that is either lacking, not enforced, or impossible to practically enforce, merchants (like campus bookstores)not engaged or sympathetic to campus IT when it comes to getting the message out about what works and doesn't in the dorms, and users that are either hyper-clueless or hyper-savvy. Then there's the philosophical debates- the dorm should be just like home, where people can do anything they want versus the dorms are more like a hotel- you play by the rules of temporary lodging etc. And the fact that we tend to have zero control over client types, device health, and nuances like OS revisions and driver status per client. Sprinkle in each WLAN vendor's bugs and quirks for good measure, as standards-based WLAN is a bad joke these days from the antenna back. Put it all together, and one thing is certain- it's extremely difficult to promise any kind of per-user bandwidth on even the best WLAN when the RF environment is so variable, and there isn't enough staff in the world to run around trying to squelch every bit of interference that pops up where you have a large dorm environment. Happy sunny Wednesday, dagnammit. Love your show, Curmudgeonly in Syracuse. Lee H. Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME Information Technology and Services (ITS) Syracuse University 315 443-3003 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 7:44 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] wireless printers in dorms Banning 2.4 GHz would ban a large portion of the consumer PCs and mobile devices and all current game consoles. I know that would not work here. We initially only offered IPTV on 5GHz n and had to expand the offering to 2.4GHz due to complaints from students. Excluding game consoles would also be a very big issue here. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: Adam Forsyth [mailto:forsy...@luther.edu] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 8:41 PM Subject: Re: wireless printers in dorms Has anyone declared 2.4Ghz hopeless and made a policy declaring that users that want a working well performing wireless network connection need to make arrangements to connect to the 5Ghz network? If a policy like that could fly, then it would be easier to run a 5Ghz network with great performance for all of the laptops to connect to. 2.4Ghz could become a best effort waste land polluted by all of the printers with their rogue ssid's, slowed down by the wii's that insist on making 802.11B connections before they'll make 802.11G connections, interfered with by the bluetooth, wifi-direct, etc. Of course, I guess this is only a good idea until 5Ghz becomes the new 2.4Ghz. I suppose it's probably only a matter of time until devices like printers have dual band radios and can cause 5Ghz problems too. On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 2:36 PM, Tom O'Donnell to...@maine.edu wrote: I left out a couple factors... I don't know if the printers are printing wirelessly, or that students even intend them to. They just show up with wireless enabled, and whatever education we've done on
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] wireless printers in dorms
This is our experience. Students are printing via USB and don't realize that wireless is enabled. Many students don't pay attention to our many communication efforts. To win the war for those who do, we dedicate bodies to hunt them down, do one-on-one education, offer to find/read the docs and turn wireless off, and as a last option for the cheap printers that can't disable wireless--plead with the student to power it up and down whenever they need to print. Rand Rand P. Hall Director, Network Services askIT! Merrimack College 978-837-3532 rand.h...@merrimack.edu If I had an hour to save the world, I would spend 59 minutes defining the problem and one minute finding solutions. – Einstein On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Tom O'Donnell to...@maine.edu wrote: I left out a couple factors... I don't know if the printers are printing wirelessly, or that students even intend them to. They just show up with wireless enabled, and whatever education we've done on the subject doesn't seem to help. Sometimes we'll find a printer and the person has a USB cable. Nope, I'm not using wireless on my printer, just the USB. But they don't realize the wireless is on. We don't intend for them to work, at any rate. We prohibit it, but going door to door hasn't worked completely. Word gets around the dorms, and students hide their printers :) -- Tom O'Donnell Senior Manager of Network and Server Systems Information Technology Services University of Maine at Farmington (207) 778-7336 On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Julian Y Koh kohs...@northwestern.edu wrote: On Oct 30, 2012, at 13:53 , Tom O'Donnell to...@maine.edu wrote: I was wondering how other schools handle wireless printers in the dorms. This seems to be the year everyone showed up with one, and they're causing connectivity problems in our 2.4GHz space. How well do the printers work anyway wirelessly? Depending on the service advertisement protocols and printing protocols used, the client types, your authentication requirements (since most printers don't do WPA2-Enterprise/802.1X) and your subnetting/address assignment scheme, I wonder how successful people are at actually getting these things to work anyway. -- Julian Y. Koh Manager, Network Transport, Telecommunications and Network Services Northwestern University Information Technology (NUIT) 2001 Sheridan Road #G-166 Evanston, IL 60208 847-467-5780 NUIT Web Site: http://www.it.northwestern.edu/ PGP Public Key:http://bt.ittns.northwestern.edu/julian/pgppubkey.html ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] wireless printers in dorms
For those who treat their dorms just like home, do you also segregate traffic from each room and backhaul the traffic just like ISPs do for each home, rather than treating the entire dorm as one big happy subnet? Then you wouldn't have the problem of thousands of devices in the subnet. Each room would be its own little world, perhaps with its own little NAT router... All those Apple devices would work great since they would work within each room, not between rooms or buildings :-) The problem with treating dorms just like home is that the students wouldn't like being tied down like that. They WANT to share between rooms and buildings--they WANT to be part of the LAN... - -- Charles R. Anderson, JNCIP-SP c...@wpi.edu Sr. Network Engineer Network Operations - Morgan Hall Worcester Polytechnic Institute On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:57:36AM -0400, Barber, Matt wrote: Hi Charles, Yes, we are running a separate SSID for that kind of stuff. We have a web form where students register MAC addresses. We subscribe to the dorm should be just like home theory that Lee described. We do our best to support whatever gaming and entertainment devices that show up. We don't do wireless printers though. They just don't work well on big networks, as some folks have mentioned. Most of them expect the users to use their software clients to discover the printer on their home networks, which doesn't work well when there are thousands of devices in the subnet. Matt Barber '06 Network and Systems Manager Morrisville State College 315-684-6053 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Charles Rumford Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:35 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] wireless printers in dorms Is anyone running a separate SSID just for these types of devices that don't do 802.1X (printers, xbox, wii, nook, etc.)? The previous institution that I was at had one of these that allowed students to connect these devices after registering the MAC address of the device. And Penn is currently in the process of testing different solutions to provide access to these kinds of devices. -Charles On Oct 31, 2012, at 8:21 AM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: To me, this whole mess has a lot of contributing factors in the aggregate. Lazy/dated/stuck-in-time client device makers, policy that is either lacking, not enforced, or impossible to practically enforce, merchants (like campus bookstores)not engaged or sympathetic to campus IT when it comes to getting the message out about what works and doesn't in the dorms, and users that are either hyper-clueless or hyper-savvy. Then there's the philosophical debates- the dorm should be just like home, where people can do anything they want versus the dorms are more like a hotel- you play by the rules of temporary lodging etc. And the fact that we tend to have zero control over client types, device health, and nuances like OS revisions and driver status per client. Sprinkle in each WLAN vendor's bugs and quirks for good measure, as standards-based WLAN is a bad joke these days from the antenna back. Put it all together, and one thing is certain- it's extremely difficult to promise any kind of per-user bandwidth on even the best WLAN when the RF environment is so variable, and there isn't enough staff in the world to run around trying to squelch every bit of interference that pops up where you have a large dorm environment. Happy sunny Wednesday, dagnammit. Love your show, Curmudgeonly in Syracuse. Lee H. Badman Network Architect/Wireless TME Information Technology and Services (ITS) Syracuse University 315 443-3003 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 7:44 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] wireless printers in dorms Banning 2.4 GHz would ban a large portion of the consumer PCs and mobile devices and all current game consoles. I know that would not work here. We initially only offered IPTV on 5GHz n and had to expand the offering to 2.4GHz due to complaints from students. Excluding game consoles would also be a very big issue here. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: Adam Forsyth [mailto:forsy...@luther.edu] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 8:41 PM Subject: Re: wireless printers in dorms Has anyone declared 2.4Ghz hopeless and made a policy declaring that users that want a working well
