Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of multiplecontrollers

[kconnell]

We did  an Airwave trial (monitor only - 8 controllers), the function to config 
your controller  just isn't there yet, but for stats it's great. 

We still just use the gui on the master and are happy with that...configs don't 
change much, so it's not something that has to be to slick and most 
troubleshooting is done via cli. 


Ken Connell
Intermediate Network Engineer
Computer & Communication Services
Ryerson University
350 Victoria St
RM AB50
Toronto, Ont
M5B 2K3
416-979-5000 x6709


-Original Message-
From: Lee H Badman 

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 09:55:05 
To: 
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of multiple
 controllers


Wondering how bigger Aruba shops are centrally managing multiple
controllers? From what I can tell right now, AirWave is pretty much an
effective graphical monitoring tool, but is pretty anemic at
configuration of Aruba. Am I missing something?
 
-Lee
 
Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Syracuse University
315 443-3003
 

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of multiplecontrollers

[kconnell]

We did a trial on both...

For us the MMS was unreliable and some of the tools (like finding users) just 
didn't work. We were constantly rebooting and tweaking, but I must note we had 
the software version not the appliance.

The airwave product for us was great with stats, finding users and what not, 
but the config for Aruba just isn't there yet, and for that reason we haven't 
committed. 


Ken Connell
Intermediate Network Engineer
Computer & Communication Services
Ryerson University
350 Victoria St
RM AB50
Toronto, Ont
M5B 2K3
416-979-5000 x6709


-Original Message-
From: "Steely, John" 

Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:11:18 
To: 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of multiple
 controllers


I am curious if we have any Aruba shops on the list who have Airwave, but also 
had experience with the Aruba MMS appliance and would be willing to share your 
thoughts on comparing the two?

Thanks in advance,
John

John Steely
Associate Director
Infrastructure Systems Department
Library and Information Services
Dickinson College
P.O. Box 1773
Carlisle, PA 17013
717-245-1613 (Voice)
717-245-1690 (Fax)
ste...@dickinson.edu


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 9:55 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of multiple 
controllers

Wondering how bigger Aruba shops are centrally managing multiple controllers? 
From what I can tell right now, AirWave is pretty much an effective graphical 
monitoring tool, but is pretty anemic at configuration of Aruba. Am I missing 
something?

-Lee

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Syracuse University
315 443-3003

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of multiplecontrollers

[John W Turner]

We have 6 controllers (though that is really immaterial since you only config 
the WLAN on the master) and have been deployed with 900 AP's for over 3 years. 

We went with Airwave about 6 months ago and are EXTREMELY happy with it. It 
provides an invaluable amount of visibility into the network and is a huge help 
in diagnosing client problems. We see this as a business intelligence tool to 
assist us in strategically tweaking/upgrading our WLAN network. 

It does not do config now, but really I'm not sure you want it to. How often do 
you change your WLAN network? I can see some features getting into Airwave 
(black listing, key rotation, guest provisioning) but do you really want to set 
up your QOS or multicast outside the Aruba interface? 

I see the Airwave and Aruba controller interfaces serving two distinct 
purposes: Airwave for operations and Aruba for management. 

-- 
John W. Turner 
Director of Networks & Systems 
Brandeis University 

- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Connell"  
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2009 8:39:15 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of 
multiplecontrollers 

We did a trial on both... 

For us the MMS was unreliable and some of the tools (like finding users) just 
didn't work. We were constantly rebooting and tweaking, but I must note we had 
the software version not the appliance. 

The airwave product for us was great with stats, finding users and what not, 
but the config for Aruba just isn't there yet, and for that reason we haven't 
committed. 



Ken Connell 
Intermediate Network Engineer 
Computer & Communication Services 
Ryerson University 
350 Victoria St 
RM AB50 
Toronto, Ont 
M5B 2K3 
416-979-5000 x6709 



>From : "Steely, John" 
Date : Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:11:18 -0500 
To :  
Subject : Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of multiple 
controllers 





I am curious if we have any Aruba shops on the list who have Airwave, but also 
had experience with the Aruba MMS appliance and would be willing to share your 
thoughts on comparing the two? 



Thanks in advance, 

John 




John Steely 

Associate Director 

Infrastructure Systems Department 

Library and Information Services 

Dickinson College 

P.O. Box 1773 

Carlisle, PA 17013 

717-245-1613 (Voice) 

717-245-1690 (Fax) 

ste...@dickinson.edu 






From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman 
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 9:55 AM 
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of multiple 
controllers 



Wondering how bigger Aruba shops are centrally managing multiple controllers? 
From what I can tell right now, AirWave is pretty much an effective graphical 
monitoring tool, but is pretty anemic at configuration of Aruba. Am I missing 
something? 



-Lee 



Lee H. Badman 

Wireless/Network Engineer 

Information Technology and Services 

Syracuse University 

315 443-3003 



** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription 
information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of multiplecontrollers

[Lee H Badman]

Hi John-

"It does not do config now, but really I'm not sure you want it to. How often 
do you change your WLAN network?"

we change some of ours on occasion, both in prod and for development- to meet 
different transient circumstances while our prod "main" WLANs roll along 
largely undisturbed.  And when you want to make changes, to me it's important 
to be able to do what you want, when you want with no management system 
impediments,  forced practices, or jumping between systems to do a little 
hereand a little there.

 "...do you really want to set up your QOS or multicast outside the Aruba 
interface?"

If ANY product (not picking on any vendor with this comment) touts themselves 
as a WLAN management solution, then yes, I'd expect to set up QoS, client 
security, WLANs, or any system parameter in a single pane of glass. Or if a 
vendor is better at monitoring, I'd like to see a monitoring only version at a 
reasonable price marketed rather than be expected to pay top dollar for a 
complete solution but only have it be practical for half my team's needs.

That being said... everyone has their own needs and ways of solving those 
needs. It's nice to see a growing number of viable options and healthy 
competition making for better solutions.

Respectfully,

Lee Badman

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of John W Turner 
[tur...@brandeis.edu]
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 7:56 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of 
multiplecontrollers

We have 6 controllers (though that is really immaterial since you only config 
the WLAN on the master) and have been deployed with 900 AP's for over 3 years.

We went with Airwave about 6 months ago and are EXTREMELY happy with it. It 
provides an invaluable amount of visibility into the network and is a huge help 
in diagnosing client problems. We see this as a business intelligence tool to 
assist us in strategically tweaking/upgrading our WLAN network.

It does not do config now, but really I'm not sure you want it to. How often do 
you change your WLAN network? I can see some features getting into Airwave 
(black listing, key rotation, guest provisioning) but do you really want to set 
up your QOS or multicast outside the Aruba interface?

I see the Airwave and Aruba controller interfaces serving two distinct 
purposes: Airwave for operations and Aruba for management.

--
John W. Turner
Director of Networks & Systems
Brandeis University

- Original Message -
From: "Ken Connell" 
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2009 8:39:15 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of 
multiplecontrollers

We did a trial on both...

For us the MMS was unreliable and some of the tools (like finding users) just 
didn't work. We were constantly rebooting and tweaking, but I must note we had 
the software version not the appliance.

The airwave product for us was great with stats, finding users and what not, 
but the config for Aruba just isn't there yet, and for that reason we haven't 
committed.


Ken Connell
Intermediate Network Engineer
Computer & Communication Services
Ryerson University
350 Victoria St
RM AB50
Toronto, Ont
M5B 2K3
416-979-5000 x6709


From: "Steely, John"
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:11:18 -0500
To: 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of multiple 
controllers
I am curious if we have any Aruba shops on the list who have Airwave, but also 
had experience with the Aruba MMS appliance and would be willing to share your 
thoughts on comparing the two?

Thanks in advance,
John

John Steely
Associate Director
Infrastructure Systems Department
Library and Information Services
Dickinson College
P.O. Box 1773
Carlisle, PA 17013
717-245-1613 (Voice)
717-245-1690 (Fax)
ste...@dickinson.edu<mailto:ste...@dickinson.edu>


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 9:55 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of multiple 
controllers

Wondering how bigger Aruba shops are centrally managing multiple controllers? 
From what I can tell right now, AirWave is pretty much an effective graphical 
monitoring tool, but is pretty anemic at configuration of Aruba. Am I missing 
something?

-Lee

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Syracuse University
315 443-3003

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http:

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of multiplecontrollers

[Johnson, Bruce T]

Lee and John,

What's lacking in AirWave's config capabilities?  Doesn't it support all the
controller's configuration elements?  Is this a matter of some here (CLI), some
there (controller GUI or NMS)?

I liked AirWave's directory-based approach.  To me it allows for better
configuration containment.

You make a good point Lee - Aruba consider a monitoring-only option.  I think a
lot of Cisco shops would take notice.

To be fair, I don't think anyone's NMS offers the single pane of glass for FCAPS
(or whatever ITIL calls it), but I see AirWave as the product most likely to
succeed.  Infrastructure vendors are always lacking in the NMS space.  They seem
content to let someone else manage/monitor/report things better. 

Bruce T. Johnson | Network Engineer | Partners Healthcare 
Network Engineering | 617.726.9662 | Pager: 31633 | bjohns...@partners.org | 
149 13th Street, 10th Floor, Mailstop 10055B, Charlestown, Ma  02129


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:28 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of
multiplecontrollers

Hi John-

"It does not do config now, but really I'm not sure you want it to. How often do
you change your WLAN network?"

we change some of ours on occasion, both in prod and for development- to meet
different transient circumstances while our prod "main" WLANs roll along largely
undisturbed.  And when you want to make changes, to me it's important to be able
to do what you want, when you want with no management system impediments,
forced practices, or jumping between systems to do a little hereand a little
there.

 "...do you really want to set up your QOS or multicast outside the Aruba
interface?"

If ANY product (not picking on any vendor with this comment) touts themselves as
a WLAN management solution, then yes, I'd expect to set up QoS, client security,
WLANs, or any system parameter in a single pane of glass. Or if a vendor is
better at monitoring, I'd like to see a monitoring only version at a reasonable
price marketed rather than be expected to pay top dollar for a complete solution
but only have it be practical for half my team's needs.

That being said... everyone has their own needs and ways of solving those needs.
It's nice to see a growing number of viable options and healthy competition
making for better solutions.

Respectfully,

Lee Badman

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of John W Turner
[tur...@brandeis.edu]
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 7:56 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of
multiplecontrollers

We have 6 controllers (though that is really immaterial since you only config
the WLAN on the master) and have been deployed with 900 AP's for over 3 years.

We went with Airwave about 6 months ago and are EXTREMELY happy with it. It
provides an invaluable amount of visibility into the network and is a huge help
in diagnosing client problems. We see this as a business intelligence tool to
assist us in strategically tweaking/upgrading our WLAN network.

It does not do config now, but really I'm not sure you want it to. How often do
you change your WLAN network? I can see some features getting into Airwave
(black listing, key rotation, guest provisioning) but do you really want to set
up your QOS or multicast outside the Aruba interface?

I see the Airwave and Aruba controller interfaces serving two distinct purposes:
Airwave for operations and Aruba for management.

--
John W. Turner
Director of Networks & Systems
Brandeis University

- Original Message -
From: "Ken Connell" 
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2009 8:39:15 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of
multiplecontrollers

We did a trial on both...

For us the MMS was unreliable and some of the tools (like finding users) just
didn't work. We were constantly rebooting and tweaking, but I must note we had
the software version not the appliance.

The airwave product for us was great with stats, finding users and what not, but
the config for Aruba just isn't there yet, and for that reason we haven't
committed.


Ken Connell
Intermediate Network Engineer
Computer & Communication Services
Ryerson University
350 Victoria St
RM AB50
Toronto, Ont
M5B 2K3
416-979-5000 x6709


From: "Steely, John"
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:11:18 -0500
To: 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of multiple
controllers
I am curious if we ha

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of multiplecontrollers

[Johnson, Bruce T]

I agree with you - the current state of jumping around between contexts to
configure and troubleshoot is not very good, not to mention that its still a
very MAC-layer intensive troubleshooting process.  I can't even get what data
rate a client is connected without doing a remote debug, and there's no
explanation for most for the slew of syslog messages.  This is where the NMS
*should* play a huge role.

Please keep your opinions coming.  

Regards,

Bruce T. Johnson | Network Engineer | Partners Healthcare 
Network Engineering | 617.726.9662 | Pager: 31633 | bjohns...@partners.org | 
149 13th Street, 10th Floor, Mailstop 10055B, Charlestown, Ma  02129


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:12 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of
multiplecontrollers

Hi Bruce-

I do understand your points. I am actually a fan of AirWave as a network admin,
and as a freelance writer have covered their development in both Network
Computing Magazine and Information Week. I'm throwing no stones at them or
anyone- just responding that from experience with multiple central WLAN
management tools that with the dollars these systems often command, I personally
want my money's worth out of the investment. And that for our team, jumping in
and out of command line and between multiple GUI systems is not only not
scalable, but also prone to errors. May be OK for us in engineering who are
extremely close to the WLAN, but gets dicier for installers who do a lot more
than wireless in a very large environment.



Not evangelizing, just pointing one perspective.

Regards-

Lee

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W. (NS)
[bosbo...@liberty.edu]
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:30 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of
multiplecontrollers

Lee,

I understand from Airwave support that they expect to have improved Aruba
management capabilities later this year. A multi-vendor management solution
cannot be expected to manage all vendor platforms equally. The perform the easy
things first and then add more capabilities.

Bruce Osborne
Liberty University

-Original Message-
From: Lee H Badman [mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu]
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: Big Aruba Environments- Management of multiplecontrollers

Hi John-

"It does not do config now, but really I'm not sure you want it to. How often do
you change your WLAN network?"

we change some of ours on occasion, both in prod and for development- to meet
different transient circumstances while our prod "main" WLANs roll along largely
undisturbed.  And when you want to make changes, to me it's important to be able
to do what you want, when you want with no management system impediments,
forced practices, or jumping between systems to do a little hereand a little
there.

 "...do you really want to set up your QOS or multicast outside the Aruba
interface?"

If ANY product (not picking on any vendor with this comment) touts themselves as
a WLAN management solution, then yes, I'd expect to set up QoS, client security,
WLANs, or any system parameter in a single pane of glass. Or if a vendor is
better at monitoring, I'd like to see a monitoring only version at a reasonable
price marketed rather than be expected to pay top dollar for a complete solution
but only have it be practical for half my team's needs.

That being said... everyone has their own needs and ways of solving those needs.
It's nice to see a growing number of viable options and healthy competition
making for better solutions.

Respectfully,

Lee Badman

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[wireless-...@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of John W Turner
[tur...@brandeis.edu]
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 7:56 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Big Aruba Environments- Management of
multiplecontrollers

We have 6 controllers (though that is really immaterial since you only config
the WLAN on the master) and have been deployed with 900 AP's for over 3 years.

We went with Airwave about 6 months ago and are EXTREMELY happy with it. It
provides an invaluable amount of visibility into the network and is a huge help
in diagnosing client problems. We see this as a business intelligence tool to
assist us in strategically tweaking/upgrading our WLAN network.

It does not do config now, but really I'm not sure you want it to. How often do
you change your WLAN network? I can see some features getting into Airwave
(bla