Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Separate SSID for 5GHz band
Thanks for all the feedback. Our proposed plan would be to leave our campus wide SSID enabled on both bands with band steering enabled, then just enable a 5GHz only SSID in the dorms. We figured we would call the SSID "UI-Wireless-5GHz" rather than "Fast" or "High Speed" because that might set unrealistic expectations. If residents were having issues, we would ask them if they could connect to the 5GHz SSID and see if there was an improvement. If they can't see the SSID, we'd recommend they upgrade their wireless device. We are finding that Xbox and PS3 controller to console communication uses some sort of 2.4 FHSS communication. The console is broadcasting even when it is turned off. We've seen -60 dBm signal strength from a single Xbox. Get a whole building full of them among the other 2.4 "stuff" and we just don't think 2.4 is going to be usable. I doubt we could ban gaming consoles from the dorms ;-) -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu On 7/7/11 6:53 PM, "Holland, Ryan C." wrote: >Band steering is favorable when you have similar coverage areas on both >2.4 and 5 ghz. That should be a given nowadays, however, with the >adoption of 11n. I recommend folks evaluate their RF designs first prior >to tinkering with these types of feature sets. Tune down your 2.4 so it's >similar to your 5 ghz, THEN try band-steering. Otherwise, what John >outlines will occur. > >=== >Ryan Holland >Ohio State > >On Jul 7, 2011, at 7:22 PM, "John Kaftan" wrote: > >> We considered a 5Ghz SSID too but declined for the same reasons that >>Karl noted. Our vendor suggested band steering. We have only done >>minimal testing with band steering but it seems promising. I had 30 >>clients connected to a single AP in our testing with only 2.4 enabled. >>When I turned up the 5 Ghz band with band steering enabled all clients >>that were able (50%) went to 5 Ghz. I'd like to understand what happens >>when a decision needs to be made between 5 and 2.4, i.e. when 2.4 offers >>a better choice due to propagation. Would you rather connect at -90 dBm >>to 5 or -70 to 2.4? >> >> I have set the min RSSI to around 10 Mb for 5 Ghz thinking that I do >>not want them connecting to 5 Ghz no matter what. That should take care >>of it but I have not tested. >> >> John Kaftan >> Infrastructure Manager >> Utica College >> >> >> >> On 7/7/2011 11:16 AM, Karl Reuss wrote: >>> On 7/7/2011 10:29 AM, Johnson, Neil M wrote: Has anyone here considered creating a separate SSID for the 5GHz band? The ideas is to encourage users to exclusively use 5 GHZ over 2.4. We've implemented band-steering, but it was suggested this would insure that users use 5GHz and not fall back to 2.4. >>> >>> We've had something like this in place for a long time now, >>> with mixed results. >>> >>> Our main SSID is 'umd' which is on 2.4 and 5GHz. We also have >>> a 'umd-fast' that is only on 5GHz. The idea was that people >>> with 5Hgz cards would see the umd-fast SSID and would choose >>> it due to the superior sounding name. If you couldn't >>> tell your device to prefer 802.11a, umd-fast was an easy way >>> to get it. >>> >>> Maybe we didn't do enough PR, but the -fast SSID seems to cause >>> more questions and confusion than it's worth. With band-steering >>> and OSs doing a better job of selecting bands, we will probably >>> decommission the -fast SSID this summer. >>> >>> -Karl Reuss >>> >>> ** >>> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE >>>Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >>>http://www.educause.edu/groups/. >> >> ** >> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE >>Constituent Group discussion list can be found at >>http://www.educause.edu/groups/. >> >> >> -- >> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS >> -- >> >> Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 1222678676) is spam: >> Spam: >>https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1222678676&m=ac618bf84df2&c=s >> Not spam: >>https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1222678676&m=ac618bf84df2&c=n >> Forget vote: >>https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1222678676&m=ac618bf84df2&c=f >> -- >> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS >> > >** >Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent >Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: Separate SSID for 5GHz band
Chris, On Wi-Fi, Multicast is transmitted at the lowest connected rate. This means that you only get 6mbps maximum by using 5GHz Multicast. Here at Liberty University, we are using Aruba's Dynamic Multicast Optimization that converts most multicast to unicast for our IPTV deployment on wireless. We have been using this for two years and have had no major user complaints. We have this enables on both 2.4 GHz & 5 GHz bands. We initially had a separate 5GHZ 802.11n-only SSID for the IPTV, but we found it a source of confusion ant not a real benefit. 802.11a clients could see the SSID, but not connect. 802.11b/g/n users could not use IPTV. Since the separate SSID was using the same AP radios as an 11a SSID, there was not really much benefit at all. That 5GHZ 802.11n-only SSID is being retired this summer. We started allowing IPTV on our 802.11a/b/g/n SSIDs last fall and have had good results. That's our experience, anyway. Bruce Osborne Wireless Network Engineer IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY 40 Years of Training Champions for Christ: 1971-2011 -Original Message- From: Chris Hart [mailto:ch...@northwestern.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Separate SSID for 5GHz band We are considering it for the purpose of Multicast TV as the quality on the 2.4 band is not satisfactory. We still need to do further testing in this area before any determinations are made. Chris > > Has anyone here considered creating a separate SSID for the 5GHz band? > > The ideas is to encourage users to exclusively use 5 GHZ over 2.4. > > We've implemented band-steering, but it was suggested this would > insure that users use 5GHz and not fall back to 2.4. > > Thanks. > > -Neil > > -- > Neil Johnson > Network Engineer > The University of Iowa > Phone: 319 384-0938 > Fax: 319 335-2951 > Mobile: 319 540-2081 > E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu > > ** > Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE > Constituent Group discussion list can be found at > http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Separate SSID for 5GHz band
Band steering is favorable when you have similar coverage areas on both 2.4 and 5 ghz. That should be a given nowadays, however, with the adoption of 11n. I recommend folks evaluate their RF designs first prior to tinkering with these types of feature sets. Tune down your 2.4 so it's similar to your 5 ghz, THEN try band-steering. Otherwise, what John outlines will occur. === Ryan Holland Ohio State On Jul 7, 2011, at 7:22 PM, "John Kaftan" wrote: > We considered a 5Ghz SSID too but declined for the same reasons that Karl > noted. Our vendor suggested band steering. We have only done minimal > testing with band steering but it seems promising. I had 30 clients > connected to a single AP in our testing with only 2.4 enabled. When I turned > up the 5 Ghz band with band steering enabled all clients that were able (50%) > went to 5 Ghz. I'd like to understand what happens when a decision needs to > be made between 5 and 2.4, i.e. when 2.4 offers a better choice due to > propagation. Would you rather connect at -90 dBm to 5 or -70 to 2.4? > > I have set the min RSSI to around 10 Mb for 5 Ghz thinking that I do not want > them connecting to 5 Ghz no matter what. That should take care of it but I > have not tested. > > John Kaftan > Infrastructure Manager > Utica College > > > > On 7/7/2011 11:16 AM, Karl Reuss wrote: >> On 7/7/2011 10:29 AM, Johnson, Neil M wrote: >>> Has anyone here considered creating a separate SSID for the 5GHz band? >>> >>> The ideas is to encourage users to exclusively use 5 GHZ over 2.4. >>> >>> We've implemented band-steering, but it was suggested this would insure >>> that users use 5GHz and not fall back to 2.4. >> >> We've had something like this in place for a long time now, >> with mixed results. >> >> Our main SSID is 'umd' which is on 2.4 and 5GHz. We also have >> a 'umd-fast' that is only on 5GHz. The idea was that people >> with 5Hgz cards would see the umd-fast SSID and would choose >> it due to the superior sounding name. If you couldn't >> tell your device to prefer 802.11a, umd-fast was an easy way >> to get it. >> >> Maybe we didn't do enough PR, but the -fast SSID seems to cause >> more questions and confusion than it's worth. With band-steering >> and OSs doing a better job of selecting bands, we will probably >> decommission the -fast SSID this summer. >> >> -Karl Reuss >> >> ** >> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent >> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. > > ** > Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent > Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. > > > -- > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > -- > > Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 1222678676) is spam: > Spam:https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1222678676&m=ac618bf84df2&c=s > Not spam:https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1222678676&m=ac618bf84df2&c=n > Forget vote: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=1222678676&m=ac618bf84df2&c=f > -- > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Separate SSID for 5GHz band
We considered a 5Ghz SSID too but declined for the same reasons that Karl noted. Our vendor suggested band steering. We have only done minimal testing with band steering but it seems promising. I had 30 clients connected to a single AP in our testing with only 2.4 enabled. When I turned up the 5 Ghz band with band steering enabled all clients that were able (50%) went to 5 Ghz. I'd like to understand what happens when a decision needs to be made between 5 and 2.4, i.e. when 2.4 offers a better choice due to propagation. Would you rather connect at -90 dBm to 5 or -70 to 2.4? I have set the min RSSI to around 10 Mb for 5 Ghz thinking that I do not want them connecting to 5 Ghz no matter what. That should take care of it but I have not tested. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College On 7/7/2011 11:16 AM, Karl Reuss wrote: On 7/7/2011 10:29 AM, Johnson, Neil M wrote: Has anyone here considered creating a separate SSID for the 5GHz band? The ideas is to encourage users to exclusively use 5 GHZ over 2.4. We've implemented band-steering, but it was suggested this would insure that users use 5GHz and not fall back to 2.4. We've had something like this in place for a long time now, with mixed results. Our main SSID is 'umd' which is on 2.4 and 5GHz. We also have a 'umd-fast' that is only on 5GHz. The idea was that people with 5Hgz cards would see the umd-fast SSID and would choose it due to the superior sounding name. If you couldn't tell your device to prefer 802.11a, umd-fast was an easy way to get it. Maybe we didn't do enough PR, but the -fast SSID seems to cause more questions and confusion than it's worth. With band-steering and OSs doing a better job of selecting bands, we will probably decommission the -fast SSID this summer. -Karl Reuss ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: Separate SSID for 5GHz band
We have used a separate 5 GHz A SSID for years but we had some more control over clients then you probably do. We had to create a 2.4 GHz BG SSID to handle guest access and PDA/smartphones that couldn't handle both 5 GHz and WPA2 security. Todd Smith Charleston Area Medical Center -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Johnson, Neil M Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:30 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Separate SSID for 5GHz band Has anyone here considered creating a separate SSID for the 5GHz band? The ideas is to encourage users to exclusively use 5 GHZ over 2.4. We've implemented band-steering, but it was suggested this would insure that users use 5GHz and not fall back to 2.4. Thanks. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. If this e-mail contains protected health information, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited,except as permitted by law. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Separate SSID for 5GHz band
On 7/7/2011 10:29 AM, Johnson, Neil M wrote: Has anyone here considered creating a separate SSID for the 5GHz band? The ideas is to encourage users to exclusively use 5 GHZ over 2.4. We've implemented band-steering, but it was suggested this would insure that users use 5GHz and not fall back to 2.4. We've had something like this in place for a long time now, with mixed results. Our main SSID is 'umd' which is on 2.4 and 5GHz. We also have a 'umd-fast' that is only on 5GHz. The idea was that people with 5Hgz cards would see the umd-fast SSID and would choose it due to the superior sounding name. If you couldn't tell your device to prefer 802.11a, umd-fast was an easy way to get it. Maybe we didn't do enough PR, but the -fast SSID seems to cause more questions and confusion than it's worth. With band-steering and OSs doing a better job of selecting bands, we will probably decommission the -fast SSID this summer. -Karl Reuss ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: Separate SSID for 5GHz band
We are considering it for the purpose of Multicast TV as the quality on the 2.4 band is not satisfactory. We still need to do further testing in this area before any determinations are made. Chris > > Has anyone here considered creating a separate SSID for the 5GHz band? > > The ideas is to encourage users to exclusively use 5 GHZ over 2.4. > > We've implemented band-steering, but it was suggested this would insure > that users use 5GHz and not fall back to 2.4. > > Thanks. > > -Neil > > -- > Neil Johnson > Network Engineer > The University of Iowa > Phone: 319 384-0938 > Fax: 319 335-2951 > Mobile: 319 540-2081 > E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu > > ** > Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent > Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Separate SSID for 5GHz band
We use a separate ssid for 5Ghz on our Ruckus devices. We mainly do it to provide "N" series devices a clear channel. By default, if they can't see the new ssid than they are using old stuff and we urge students to upgrade. Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. Petersburg, FL 33711 On 7/7/11 10:29 AM, Johnson, Neil M wrote: Has anyone here considered creating a separate SSID for the 5GHz band? The ideas is to encourage users to exclusively use 5 GHZ over 2.4. We've implemented band-steering, but it was suggested this would insure that users use 5GHz and not fall back to 2.4. Thanks. -Neil ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Separate SSID for 5GHz band
Has anyone here considered creating a separate SSID for the 5GHz band? The ideas is to encourage users to exclusively use 5 GHZ over 2.4. We've implemented band-steering, but it was suggested this would insure that users use 5GHz and not fall back to 2.4. Thanks. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
