Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives
yeah i thought as much but had to ask best option is recode in PHP which I've already proposed to my client. lets see if he bites. thanks Robert cheers garth On 12/08/2009, at 2:18 AM, Robert Garcia wrote: As far as I know, there is no Java compiler that just compiles your code, and you put on a Tomcat or similar system. You must by the JAVA binaries from witango, which are about $5k or so. Then you can compile from witango studio and serve from the java server that has the binaries installed. I just can't imagine dropping another $5k into a seemingly dead company that requires the use of an all but dead studio. I would be curious if it was purchased if they took the money and sent out a license. Its like the old medieval days when someone was in the dungeon. The prisoner is seemingly dead, but when you leave food by the door and come back later, the food is gone and the plate is returned. -- Robert Garcia President - BigHead Technology VP Application Development - eventpix.com 13653 West Park Dr Magalia, Ca 95954 ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040 rgar...@bighead.net - rgar...@eventpix.com http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/ On Aug 10, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Garth Penglase wrote: Hi guys, long time no speak. I've been off developing in PHP. So what happened with the Java compiler? Did that work and is it now available for low cost or not worth bothering with? I have a client who is looking at external hosting alternatives who has been hosting their own site for quite a while. Wanted to get some options on what to offer him. He wants to spend no more than $600 a year on hosting (only gets a couple of thousand visitors a month as he's a wholesaler) and doesn't want to host it himself anymore. I currently host other witango sites myself but are moving all those clients over to PHP so don't want to have a long term situation with him. cheers Garth On 30/01/2008, at 3:33 AM, Robert Garcia wrote: I agree, its really nice when stuff just works. And when I use .NET, I don't experience bugs either. I think the main reason I don't use .NET, is my love for mac, linux, and the performance of linux. And like I said, PHP solomento is not a candidate, its not in the same ballpark with .NET or a solid J2EE setup, but Zend Platform/ PHP 5 is. I don't think alot of people realize that Zend is the same company that write the php engine, they are the custodian so to speak of PHP. So its really a perfect marriage. To keep your .NET MS analogy, its kinda like PHP is the EXPRESS version, where Zend Platform is the enterprise version. I think it is also REAL exciting what they are doing with the Zend Framework. They are building complex tools with simple frameworks to call them, and building them into the zend IDE and so forth. The idea is to start allowing a more RAD approach to development, similar to how witango used to be. As the Zend Framework matures, it will provide the bridge for those coming from languages like witango, that want to work at a higher altitude. -- Robert Garcia President - BigHead Technology VP Application Development - eventpix.com 13653 West Park Dr Magalia, Ca 95954 ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040 rgar...@bighead.net - rgar...@eventpix.com http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/ On Jan 29, 2008, at 8:17 AM, Scott Cadillac wrote: Hi Robert, Good point about the price of the Java Compiler. I hadn't realized it was that much. As for Microsoft support, if you're not an MSDN subscriber than it can be confusing. But being a subscriber is a night and day difference. But things just work in the .NET world too. In the past 5 years I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to contact MS for technical support - and I've still got room to spare. Not too mention the shear mass of posted articles, code samples, free working apps, MSDN library, forums and knowledge base help dedicated to ASP.NET, it's endless. Not unlike PHP I'm sure. Recently the source code for the .NET framework was made available, if you want to see how it works. Microsoft is not running it as an open-source project, but the source is now freely available, which will only strengthen the alternative options for the framework on other operating systems. It's all interesting stuff. Scott, On Monday, January 28, 2008 7:13pm, Robert Garcia said: Not complete apples and oranges, but I understand what you are saying. But I was more comparing to witango, and also, I wanted personal support. Zend is a decent sized company, but not like MS, and the license you spend for zend, is really just for support. Dev servers of Zend are free. I mean, you mentioned the ability of witango to port to java, but thats not even a reasonable feature IMHO. I was there, along with you in philly when they first demoed that. And we were all excited to be able to have that possibility, and be able to
Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives
Thanks guys for the feedback. There's a lot of stuff at the address you provided Daniel (some of which I'm looking at already). Anything in particular you had in mind on this pag? thanks Garth On 12/08/2009, at 9:58 AM, D. Richardy wrote: Take a look: http://www.eclipseplugincentral.com rs Daniel - Original Message - From: "Mark Weiss" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:44 PM Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:18 AM, Robert Garcia wrote: Its like the old medieval days when someone was in the dungeon. The prisoner is seemingly dead, but when you leave food by the door and come back later, the food is gone and the plate is returned. Accurate... dmweiss _ ___ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf __ __ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives
Hi folks, I haven't written to the list in the longest time and some of guys know me. As you know I used to teach Witango courses when it was still owned by Pervasive. I moved off Witango and onto Java servlets around around 2003. I chose to move off page centric coding including JSP, PHP, ASP mechanisms and built an independent framework in Java Servlets that runs in a Java container. I started on a project for a financial products company in 2003 and went live in 2004 and the system grew in sophistication and features over the next couple of years. I am glad to share that over the last four years my system has been the portal for over a billion + dollars of new business each year for my customer for over four years now. I am not sure I could have done this with any other web applications engine, much less at a cost of ZERO dollars for the runtime environment. It did take a lot of hard work though. I must admit that the Witango/Tango development environment is a great teacher of the hierarchy and priorities in web application development and allows you to model the application fast and also separate the organizational perspectives. Glad to see some of you are investing yourselves into alternative options too Sri Amudhanar Maxys Corporation Virginia, USA Dan Stein wrote: I was speaking about the With enterprise folks not fellow developers. I know you guys have been around. Seems like Phil and the people at his office fell off the face of the earth. -- Dan Stein MSN FileMaker 7 Certified Developer FileMaker 9 Certified Developer Digital Software Solutions 303 W. Chestnut St Souderton PA 18964 Land: 215-799-0192 Cell: 610-256-2843 Fax 215-799-0192 ( Call 1st) FMP, WiTango,MSSQL, MySQL,PHP d...@dss-db.com <mailto:d...@dss-db.com> www.dss-db.com <http://www.dss-db.com> EDI,SQL 2000, MySQL, CWP d...@dss-db.com <mailto:d...@dss-db.com> www.dss-db.com <http://www.dss-db.com> "It is perfectly safe to stand nowhere." On Aug 12, 2009, at 4:36 PM, Wolf, Gene (SA-1) wrote: *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* -Original Message- From: Dan Stein [mailto:d...@dss-db.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:24 PM To: witango-talk@witango.com <mailto:witango-talk@witango.com> Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives Then again unless it is just me I don't think anyone has heard from the folks in AU for almost a year now. Even direct email get no response. Has anyone else heard anything? -- Dan Stein MSN FileMaker 7 Certified Developer FileMaker 9 Certified Developer Digital Software Solutions 303 W. Chestnut St Souderton PA 18964 Land: 215-799-0192 Cell: 610-256-2843 Fax 215-799-0192 ( Call 1st) FMP, WiTango,MSSQL, MySQL,PHP d...@dss-db.com <mailto:d...@dss-db.com> www.dss-db.com "When you are born, you cry and those who love you rejoice. And if you live your life as you should, when you die, you rejoice and those who love you cry." On Aug 11, 2009, at 12:31 PM, Scott Cadillac wrote: Its like the old medieval days when someone was in the dungeon. The prisoner is seemingly dead, but when you leave food by the door and come back later, the food is gone and the plate is returned. Ouch! __ __ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives
I was speaking about the With enterprise folks not fellow developers. I know you guys have been around. Seems like Phil and the people at his office fell off the face of the earth. -- Dan Stein MSN FileMaker 7 Certified Developer FileMaker 9 Certified Developer Digital Software Solutions 303 W. Chestnut St Souderton PA 18964 Land: 215-799-0192 Cell: 610-256-2843 Fax 215-799-0192 ( Call 1st) FMP, WiTango,MSSQL, MySQL,PHP d...@dss-db.com www.dss-db.com EDI,SQL 2000, MySQL, CWP d...@dss-db.com www.dss-db.com "It is perfectly safe to stand nowhere." On Aug 12, 2009, at 4:36 PM, Wolf, Gene (SA-1) wrote: *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* -Original Message- From: Dan Stein [mailto:d...@dss-db.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:24 PM To: witango-talk@witango.com Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives Then again unless it is just me I don't think anyone has heard from the folks in AU for almost a year now. Even direct email get no response. Has anyone else heard anything? -- Dan Stein MSN FileMaker 7 Certified Developer FileMaker 9 Certified Developer Digital Software Solutions 303 W. Chestnut St Souderton PA 18964 Land: 215-799-0192 Cell: 610-256-2843 Fax 215-799-0192 ( Call 1st) FMP, WiTango,MSSQL, MySQL,PHP d...@dss-db.com www.dss-db.com "When you are born, you cry and those who love you rejoice. And if you live your life as you should, when you die, you rejoice and those who love you cry." On Aug 11, 2009, at 12:31 PM, Scott Cadillac wrote: Its like the old medieval days when someone was in the dungeon. The prisoner is seemingly dead, but when you leave food by the door and come back later, the food is gone and the plate is returned. Ouch! __ __ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/ maillist.taf TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
RE: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives
*chirp* *chirp* *chirp* -Original Message- From: Dan Stein [mailto:d...@dss-db.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:24 PM To: witango-talk@witango.com Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives Then again unless it is just me I don't think anyone has heard from the folks in AU for almost a year now. Even direct email get no response. Has anyone else heard anything? -- Dan Stein MSN FileMaker 7 Certified Developer FileMaker 9 Certified Developer Digital Software Solutions 303 W. Chestnut St Souderton PA 18964 Land: 215-799-0192 Cell: 610-256-2843 Fax 215-799-0192 ( Call 1st) FMP, WiTango,MSSQL, MySQL,PHP d...@dss-db.com www.dss-db.com "When you are born, you cry and those who love you rejoice. And if you live your life as you should, when you die, you rejoice and those who love you cry." On Aug 11, 2009, at 12:31 PM, Scott Cadillac wrote: > > Its like the old medieval days when someone was in the dungeon. The > > prisoner is seemingly dead, but when you leave food by the door and > > come back later, the food is gone and the plate is returned. > > Ouch! > > > __ > __ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives
Then again unless it is just me I don't think anyone has heard from the folks in AU for almost a year now. Even direct email get no response. Has anyone else heard anything? -- Dan Stein MSN FileMaker 7 Certified Developer FileMaker 9 Certified Developer Digital Software Solutions 303 W. Chestnut St Souderton PA 18964 Land: 215-799-0192 Cell: 610-256-2843 Fax 215-799-0192 ( Call 1st) FMP, WiTango,MSSQL, MySQL,PHP d...@dss-db.com www.dss-db.com "When you are born, you cry and those who love you rejoice. And if you live your life as you should, when you die, you rejoice and those who love you cry." On Aug 11, 2009, at 12:31 PM, Scott Cadillac wrote: > Its like the old medieval days when someone was in the > dungeon. The prisoner is seemingly dead, but when you > leave food by the door and come back later, the food is > gone and the plate is returned. Ouch! TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives
OK I'll bite look at what? -- Dan Stein MSN FileMaker 7 Certified Developer FileMaker 9 Certified Developer Digital Software Solutions 303 W. Chestnut St Souderton PA 18964 Land: 215-799-0192 Cell: 610-256-2843 Fax 215-799-0192 ( Call 1st) FMP, WiTango,MSSQL, MySQL,PHP d...@dss-db.com www.dss-db.com "When you are born, you cry and those who love you rejoice. And if you live your life as you should, when you die, you rejoice and those who love you cry." On Aug 11, 2009, at 7:58 PM, D. Richardy wrote: Take a look: http://www.eclipseplugincentral.com rs Daniel - Original Message - From: "Mark Weiss" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:44 PM Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:18 AM, Robert Garcia wrote: Its like the old medieval days when someone was in the dungeon. The prisoner is seemingly dead, but when you leave food by the door and come back later, the food is gone and the plate is returned. Accurate... dmweiss TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives
Take a look: http://www.eclipseplugincentral.com rs Daniel - Original Message - From: "Mark Weiss" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:44 PM Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:18 AM, Robert Garcia wrote: Its like the old medieval days when someone was in the dungeon. The prisoner is seemingly dead, but when you leave food by the door and come back later, the food is gone and the plate is returned. Accurate... dmweiss TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives
On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:18 AM, Robert Garcia wrote: Its like the old medieval days when someone was in the dungeon. The prisoner is seemingly dead, but when you leave food by the door and come back later, the food is gone and the plate is returned. Accurate... dmweiss TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives
> Its like the old medieval days when someone was in the > dungeon. The prisoner is seemingly dead, but when you > leave food by the door and come back later, the food is > gone and the plate is returned. Ouch! TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives
As far as I know, there is no Java compiler that just compiles your code, and you put on a Tomcat or similar system. You must by the JAVA binaries from witango, which are about $5k or so. Then you can compile from witango studio and serve from the java server that has the binaries installed. I just can't imagine dropping another $5k into a seemingly dead company that requires the use of an all but dead studio. I would be curious if it was purchased if they took the money and sent out a license. Its like the old medieval days when someone was in the dungeon. The prisoner is seemingly dead, but when you leave food by the door and come back later, the food is gone and the plate is returned. -- Robert Garcia President - BigHead Technology VP Application Development - eventpix.com 13653 West Park Dr Magalia, Ca 95954 ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040 rgar...@bighead.net - rgar...@eventpix.com http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/ On Aug 10, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Garth Penglase wrote: Hi guys, long time no speak. I've been off developing in PHP. So what happened with the Java compiler? Did that work and is it now available for low cost or not worth bothering with? I have a client who is looking at external hosting alternatives who has been hosting their own site for quite a while. Wanted to get some options on what to offer him. He wants to spend no more than $600 a year on hosting (only gets a couple of thousand visitors a month as he's a wholesaler) and doesn't want to host it himself anymore. I currently host other witango sites myself but are moving all those clients over to PHP so don't want to have a long term situation with him. cheers Garth On 30/01/2008, at 3:33 AM, Robert Garcia wrote: I agree, its really nice when stuff just works. And when I use .NET, I don't experience bugs either. I think the main reason I don't use .NET, is my love for mac, linux, and the performance of linux. And like I said, PHP solomento is not a candidate, its not in the same ballpark with .NET or a solid J2EE setup, but Zend Platform/ PHP 5 is. I don't think alot of people realize that Zend is the same company that write the php engine, they are the custodian so to speak of PHP. So its really a perfect marriage. To keep your .NET MS analogy, its kinda like PHP is the EXPRESS version, where Zend Platform is the enterprise version. I think it is also REAL exciting what they are doing with the Zend Framework. They are building complex tools with simple frameworks to call them, and building them into the zend IDE and so forth. The idea is to start allowing a more RAD approach to development, similar to how witango used to be. As the Zend Framework matures, it will provide the bridge for those coming from languages like witango, that want to work at a higher altitude. -- Robert Garcia President - BigHead Technology VP Application Development - eventpix.com 13653 West Park Dr Magalia, Ca 95954 ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040 rgar...@bighead.net - rgar...@eventpix.com http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/ On Jan 29, 2008, at 8:17 AM, Scott Cadillac wrote: Hi Robert, Good point about the price of the Java Compiler. I hadn't realized it was that much. As for Microsoft support, if you're not an MSDN subscriber than it can be confusing. But being a subscriber is a night and day difference. But things just work in the .NET world too. In the past 5 years I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to contact MS for technical support - and I've still got room to spare. Not too mention the shear mass of posted articles, code samples, free working apps, MSDN library, forums and knowledge base help dedicated to ASP.NET, it's endless. Not unlike PHP I'm sure. Recently the source code for the .NET framework was made available, if you want to see how it works. Microsoft is not running it as an open-source project, but the source is now freely available, which will only strengthen the alternative options for the framework on other operating systems. It's all interesting stuff. Scott, On Monday, January 28, 2008 7:13pm, Robert Garcia > said: Not complete apples and oranges, but I understand what you are saying. But I was more comparing to witango, and also, I wanted personal support. Zend is a decent sized company, but not like MS, and the license you spend for zend, is really just for support. Dev servers of Zend are free. I mean, you mentioned the ability of witango to port to java, but thats not even a reasonable feature IMHO. I was there, along with you in philly when they first demoed that. And we were all excited to be able to have that possibility, and be able to server on another platform. But the fine print is to use this feature you have to pay some $5k license to run on a single server. Why? You love witango that much you would pay $5k to compile over instead of lea
Re: Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives
he might be able to do that over at tronics. Ask robert shubert. -S Shane Pearlman 831.345.7033 On Aug 10, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Garth Penglase wrote: Hi guys, long time no speak. I've been off developing in PHP. So what happened with the Java compiler? Did that work and is it now available for low cost or not worth bothering with? I have a client who is looking at external hosting alternatives who has been hosting their own site for quite a while. Wanted to get some options on what to offer him. He wants to spend no more than $600 a year on hosting (only gets a couple of thousand visitors a month as he's a wholesaler) and doesn't want to host it himself anymore. I currently host other witango sites myself but are moving all those clients over to PHP so don't want to have a long term situation with him. cheers Garth On 30/01/2008, at 3:33 AM, Robert Garcia wrote: I agree, its really nice when stuff just works. And when I use .NET, I don't experience bugs either. I think the main reason I don't use .NET, is my love for mac, linux, and the performance of linux. And like I said, PHP solomento is not a candidate, its not in the same ballpark with .NET or a solid J2EE setup, but Zend Platform/ PHP 5 is. I don't think alot of people realize that Zend is the same company that write the php engine, they are the custodian so to speak of PHP. So its really a perfect marriage. To keep your .NET MS analogy, its kinda like PHP is the EXPRESS version, where Zend Platform is the enterprise version. I think it is also REAL exciting what they are doing with the Zend Framework. They are building complex tools with simple frameworks to call them, and building them into the zend IDE and so forth. The idea is to start allowing a more RAD approach to development, similar to how witango used to be. As the Zend Framework matures, it will provide the bridge for those coming from languages like witango, that want to work at a higher altitude. -- Robert Garcia President - BigHead Technology VP Application Development - eventpix.com 13653 West Park Dr Magalia, Ca 95954 ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040 rgar...@bighead.net - rgar...@eventpix.com http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/ On Jan 29, 2008, at 8:17 AM, Scott Cadillac wrote: Hi Robert, Good point about the price of the Java Compiler. I hadn't realized it was that much. As for Microsoft support, if you're not an MSDN subscriber than it can be confusing. But being a subscriber is a night and day difference. But things just work in the .NET world too. In the past 5 years I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to contact MS for technical support - and I've still got room to spare. Not too mention the shear mass of posted articles, code samples, free working apps, MSDN library, forums and knowledge base help dedicated to ASP.NET, it's endless. Not unlike PHP I'm sure. Recently the source code for the .NET framework was made available, if you want to see how it works. Microsoft is not running it as an open-source project, but the source is now freely available, which will only strengthen the alternative options for the framework on other operating systems. It's all interesting stuff. Scott, On Monday, January 28, 2008 7:13pm, Robert Garcia > said: Not complete apples and oranges, but I understand what you are saying. But I was more comparing to witango, and also, I wanted personal support. Zend is a decent sized company, but not like MS, and the license you spend for zend, is really just for support. Dev servers of Zend are free. I mean, you mentioned the ability of witango to port to java, but thats not even a reasonable feature IMHO. I was there, along with you in philly when they first demoed that. And we were all excited to be able to have that possibility, and be able to server on another platform. But the fine print is to use this feature you have to pay some $5k license to run on a single server. Why? You love witango that much you would pay $5k to compile over instead of learn JAVA/JSP? I mean, that probably made sense for the big company with the huge app. The OEMS that witango inherited from Pervasive. But its those decisions, that has sent so many small shops and developers running for the hills. I have no problem what I pay to zend, because I pay it for support, and its worth it. 1 year of upgrades, would get you ZERO value with witango, but with zend, that is several .5 level software revisions and lots of great enhancements. HIGH AVAILABILITY was one of the most recent great enhancements. And we all have learned the money you pay for witango is only to have the priveledge of downloading and installing the product. Support is above and beyond, you must pay. MS support is not as bad as witango, but still pretty tough. And believe it or not, when a zend update comes out, it works. I have 4 php devs working with me,
Witango-Talk: Java compiler/hosting alternatives
Hi guys, long time no speak. I've been off developing in PHP. So what happened with the Java compiler? Did that work and is it now available for low cost or not worth bothering with? I have a client who is looking at external hosting alternatives who has been hosting their own site for quite a while. Wanted to get some options on what to offer him. He wants to spend no more than $600 a year on hosting (only gets a couple of thousand visitors a month as he's a wholesaler) and doesn't want to host it himself anymore. I currently host other witango sites myself but are moving all those clients over to PHP so don't want to have a long term situation with him. cheers Garth On 30/01/2008, at 3:33 AM, Robert Garcia wrote: I agree, its really nice when stuff just works. And when I use .NET, I don't experience bugs either. I think the main reason I don't use .NET, is my love for mac, linux, and the performance of linux. And like I said, PHP solomento is not a candidate, its not in the same ballpark with .NET or a solid J2EE setup, but Zend Platform/ PHP 5 is. I don't think alot of people realize that Zend is the same company that write the php engine, they are the custodian so to speak of PHP. So its really a perfect marriage. To keep your .NET MS analogy, its kinda like PHP is the EXPRESS version, where Zend Platform is the enterprise version. I think it is also REAL exciting what they are doing with the Zend Framework. They are building complex tools with simple frameworks to call them, and building them into the zend IDE and so forth. The idea is to start allowing a more RAD approach to development, similar to how witango used to be. As the Zend Framework matures, it will provide the bridge for those coming from languages like witango, that want to work at a higher altitude. -- Robert Garcia President - BigHead Technology VP Application Development - eventpix.com 13653 West Park Dr Magalia, Ca 95954 ph: 530.645.4040 x222 fax: 530.645.4040 rgar...@bighead.net - rgar...@eventpix.com http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/ On Jan 29, 2008, at 8:17 AM, Scott Cadillac wrote: Hi Robert, Good point about the price of the Java Compiler. I hadn't realized it was that much. As for Microsoft support, if you're not an MSDN subscriber than it can be confusing. But being a subscriber is a night and day difference. But things just work in the .NET world too. In the past 5 years I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to contact MS for technical support - and I've still got room to spare. Not too mention the shear mass of posted articles, code samples, free working apps, MSDN library, forums and knowledge base help dedicated to ASP.NET, it's endless. Not unlike PHP I'm sure. Recently the source code for the .NET framework was made available, if you want to see how it works. Microsoft is not running it as an open-source project, but the source is now freely available, which will only strengthen the alternative options for the framework on other operating systems. It's all interesting stuff. Scott, On Monday, January 28, 2008 7:13pm, Robert Garcia said: Not complete apples and oranges, but I understand what you are saying. But I was more comparing to witango, and also, I wanted personal support. Zend is a decent sized company, but not like MS, and the license you spend for zend, is really just for support. Dev servers of Zend are free. I mean, you mentioned the ability of witango to port to java, but thats not even a reasonable feature IMHO. I was there, along with you in philly when they first demoed that. And we were all excited to be able to have that possibility, and be able to server on another platform. But the fine print is to use this feature you have to pay some $5k license to run on a single server. Why? You love witango that much you would pay $5k to compile over instead of learn JAVA/JSP? I mean, that probably made sense for the big company with the huge app. The OEMS that witango inherited from Pervasive. But its those decisions, that has sent so many small shops and developers running for the hills. I have no problem what I pay to zend, because I pay it for support, and its worth it. 1 year of upgrades, would get you ZERO value with witango, but with zend, that is several .5 level software revisions and lots of great enhancements. HIGH AVAILABILITY was one of the most recent great enhancements. And we all have learned the money you pay for witango is only to have the priveledge of downloading and installing the product. Support is above and beyond, you must pay. MS support is not as bad as witango, but still pretty tough. And believe it or not, when a zend update comes out, it works. I have 4 php devs working with me, and we code all kinds of stuff, new projects, and witango ports, and we don't tip toe around bugs. The servers run, and the code works, occasionally an is
