Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination
Considering local internal changes to WiX a competitive advantage seems indicative of a marginal business plan at best. More likely is the opposite. If I were to modify it for internal use I would have no idea how to get authorization to do so, and nobody would be willing to figure it out. On Nov 20, 2013, at 3:36 AM, Bruce Cran wrote: > On 11/20/2013 8:52 AM, John Ludlow wrote: >> The only reason I can see not to do this is because it depends on >> proprietary code, which either has no use outside your environment, or is >> considered part of your own product and can't be distributed. > > Or if you think the changes are so awesome you want to prevent your > competitors from getting the improvements :) > > -- > Bruce Cran > > -- > Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription > Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. > Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing > conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > ___ > WiX-users mailing list > WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination
On 11/20/2013 8:52 AM, John Ludlow wrote: > The only reason I can see not to do this is because it depends on > proprietary code, which either has no use outside your environment, or is > considered part of your own product and can't be distributed. Or if you think the changes are so awesome you want to prevent your competitors from getting the improvements :) -- Bruce Cran -- Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination
If you modify WiX itself, then I'd argue that it's actually in your best interest to contribute the changes back anyway, regardless of whether you distribute those binaries. That way, they can be included in future versions of WiX and you don't have to re-apply the changes every time you upgrade the toolset. The only reason I can see not to do this is because it depends on proprietary code, which either has no use outside your environment, or is considered part of your own product and can't be distributed. On 20 November 2013 04:55, Rob Mensching wrote: > Depends on which lawyers you ask but I'd still leave you with my last > comment: > > "Your stuff is yours but don't steal from the community. > If you improve our stuff, give back." > > > -Original Message- > From: Nicolás Alvarez [mailto:nicolas.alva...@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 11:34 AM > To: General discussion about the WiX toolset. > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination > > But if I change something in the WiX toolset and don't distribute the > modified WiX binaries (I only distribute msi packages generated with the > modified WiX), I don't have to distribute the source code to my > modifications, do I? > > -- > Nicolás > > 2013/11/20 Rob Mensching : > > If one does not claim the WiX code as part their own stuff (i.e. all the > copyrights are left in place) and one does not change any code (i.e. WiX > code is same as code published on WiX toolset site) then from my > understanding (you'll need to get your own lawyer) they are still complying > with MS-RL. > > > > Basically, when one changes something *in* the WiX toolset, those > changes must be published. Ideally, those changes are provided to the > community so everyone benefits from work done by volunteers around the > world. > > > > Said another way, "Your stuff is yours but don't steal from the > community. If you improve our stuff, give back." > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Christopher Painter [mailto:chr...@iswix.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 11:10 AM > > To: General discussion about the WiX toolset.; General discussion about > the WiX toolset. > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination > > > > > > > > The problem is the way they say "normally" not included. Got to love > lawyers. > > > > FWIW, I get into grey areas with my tool IsWiX. Include very small > pieces of WiX in my solution ( mainly the use of > Microsoft.Deployment.WindowsInstaller, the inclusion of schema (XSD) files > for validation and snippets of the help file displayed in the UI to educate > the developer). I'm not actually making any changes to WiX though and > I want to publish under MS-PL not MS-RL because if anyone ever wants to > pick up this ball and run with it, I'd be honored. > > > > I can only assume that OuterCurve won't want to waste going after me... > there isn't any money and I'm not doing anything malicious. > > > > > > From: "Rob Mensching" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 9:01 PM > > To: "General discussion about the WiX toolset." > > > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination > > > > http://wixtoolset.org/about/license/ > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Nicolás Alvarez [mailto:nicolas.alva...@gmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:48 AM > > To: General discussion about the WiX toolset. > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination > > > > 2013/11/19 Joe Dimagio : > >> Hey everyone, > >> > >> I'm doing some research to see if WiX is right for my corporation to > use. > >> > >> Reading the MS RL, it looks like if I distribute my product using > >> WiX, I need to include my source files including the wxs, wxl, wxi, > >> wixproj, as well as my own product's source code as well. Is this > >> correct? I'm not a lawyer but this seems like an all encompassing > >> license that seems pretty prohibitive for a company to use if I'm > reading it correct. > > > > No, not at all. That would be like saying that using an open source > compiler means you have to distribute your source code if you compiled your > binaries with it, or that you have to distribute your code if you used an > open source text editor to write it; none of that makes sense. > > The license only af
Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination
Depends on which lawyers you ask but I'd still leave you with my last comment: "Your stuff is yours but don't steal from the community. If you improve our stuff, give back." -Original Message- From: Nicolás Alvarez [mailto:nicolas.alva...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 11:34 AM To: General discussion about the WiX toolset. Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination But if I change something in the WiX toolset and don't distribute the modified WiX binaries (I only distribute msi packages generated with the modified WiX), I don't have to distribute the source code to my modifications, do I? -- Nicolás 2013/11/20 Rob Mensching : > If one does not claim the WiX code as part their own stuff (i.e. all the > copyrights are left in place) and one does not change any code (i.e. WiX code > is same as code published on WiX toolset site) then from my understanding > (you'll need to get your own lawyer) they are still complying with MS-RL. > > Basically, when one changes something *in* the WiX toolset, those changes > must be published. Ideally, those changes are provided to the community so > everyone benefits from work done by volunteers around the world. > > Said another way, "Your stuff is yours but don't steal from the community. If > you improve our stuff, give back." > > -Original Message- > From: Christopher Painter [mailto:chr...@iswix.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 11:10 AM > To: General discussion about the WiX toolset.; General discussion about the > WiX toolset. > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination > > > > The problem is the way they say "normally" not included. Got to love > lawyers. > > FWIW, I get into grey areas with my tool IsWiX. Include very small pieces > of WiX in my solution ( mainly the use of > Microsoft.Deployment.WindowsInstaller, the inclusion of schema (XSD) files > for validation and snippets of the help file displayed in the UI to educate > the developer). I'm not actually making any changes to WiX though and I > want to publish under MS-PL not MS-RL because if anyone ever wants to pick up > this ball and run with it, I'd be honored. > > I can only assume that OuterCurve won't want to waste going after me... there > isn't any money and I'm not doing anything malicious. > > ------------ > From: "Rob Mensching" > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 9:01 PM > To: "General discussion about the WiX toolset." > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination > > http://wixtoolset.org/about/license/ > > -Original Message- > From: Nicolás Alvarez [mailto:nicolas.alva...@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:48 AM > To: General discussion about the WiX toolset. > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination > > 2013/11/19 Joe Dimagio : >> Hey everyone, >> >> I'm doing some research to see if WiX is right for my corporation to use. >> >> Reading the MS RL, it looks like if I distribute my product using >> WiX, I need to include my source files including the wxs, wxl, wxi, >> wixproj, as well as my own product's source code as well. Is this >> correct? I'm not a lawyer but this seems like an all encompassing >> license that seems pretty prohibitive for a company to use if I'm reading it >> correct. > > No, not at all. That would be like saying that using an open source compiler > means you have to distribute your source code if you compiled your binaries > with it, or that you have to distribute your code if you used an open source > text editor to write it; none of that makes sense. > The license only affects WiX, not what you generate with it. > > However, I would like some clarifications from the developers about code from > WiX that gets embedded into the final msi, especially the "standard custom > actions". I think that code should be explicitly under a more liberal > license... > > -- > Nicolás > -- Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.
Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination
But if I change something in the WiX toolset and don't distribute the modified WiX binaries (I only distribute msi packages generated with the modified WiX), I don't have to distribute the source code to my modifications, do I? -- Nicolás 2013/11/20 Rob Mensching : > If one does not claim the WiX code as part their own stuff (i.e. all the > copyrights are left in place) and one does not change any code (i.e. WiX code > is same as code published on WiX toolset site) then from my understanding > (you'll need to get your own lawyer) they are still complying with MS-RL. > > Basically, when one changes something *in* the WiX toolset, those changes > must be published. Ideally, those changes are provided to the community so > everyone benefits from work done by volunteers around the world. > > Said another way, "Your stuff is yours but don't steal from the community. If > you improve our stuff, give back." > > -Original Message- > From: Christopher Painter [mailto:chr...@iswix.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 11:10 AM > To: General discussion about the WiX toolset.; General discussion about the > WiX toolset. > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination > > > > The problem is the way they say "normally" not included. Got to love > lawyers. > > FWIW, I get into grey areas with my tool IsWiX. Include very small pieces > of WiX in my solution ( mainly the use of > Microsoft.Deployment.WindowsInstaller, the inclusion of schema (XSD) files > for validation and snippets of the help file displayed in the UI to educate > the developer). I'm not actually making any changes to WiX though and I > want to publish under MS-PL not MS-RL because if anyone ever wants to pick up > this ball and run with it, I'd be honored. > > I can only assume that OuterCurve won't want to waste going after me... there > isn't any money and I'm not doing anything malicious. > > ---------------- > From: "Rob Mensching" > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 9:01 PM > To: "General discussion about the WiX toolset." > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination > > http://wixtoolset.org/about/license/ > > -Original Message- > From: Nicolás Alvarez [mailto:nicolas.alva...@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:48 AM > To: General discussion about the WiX toolset. > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination > > 2013/11/19 Joe Dimagio : >> Hey everyone, >> >> I'm doing some research to see if WiX is right for my corporation to use. >> >> Reading the MS RL, it looks like if I distribute my product using WiX, >> I need to include my source files including the wxs, wxl, wxi, >> wixproj, as well as my own product's source code as well. Is this >> correct? I'm not a lawyer but this seems like an all encompassing >> license that seems pretty prohibitive for a company to use if I'm reading it >> correct. > > No, not at all. That would be like saying that using an open source compiler > means you have to distribute your source code if you compiled your binaries > with it, or that you have to distribute your code if you used an open source > text editor to write it; none of that makes sense. > The license only affects WiX, not what you generate with it. > > However, I would like some clarifications from the developers about code from > WiX that gets embedded into the final msi, especially the "standard custom > actions". I think that code should be explicitly under a more liberal > license... > > -- > Nicolás > -- Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination
If one does not claim the WiX code as part their own stuff (i.e. all the copyrights are left in place) and one does not change any code (i.e. WiX code is same as code published on WiX toolset site) then from my understanding (you'll need to get your own lawyer) they are still complying with MS-RL. Basically, when one changes something *in* the WiX toolset, those changes must be published. Ideally, those changes are provided to the community so everyone benefits from work done by volunteers around the world. Said another way, "Your stuff is yours but don't steal from the community. If you improve our stuff, give back." -Original Message- From: Christopher Painter [mailto:chr...@iswix.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 11:10 AM To: General discussion about the WiX toolset.; General discussion about the WiX toolset. Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination The problem is the way they say "normally" not included. Got to love lawyers. FWIW, I get into grey areas with my tool IsWiX. Include very small pieces of WiX in my solution ( mainly the use of Microsoft.Deployment.WindowsInstaller, the inclusion of schema (XSD) files for validation and snippets of the help file displayed in the UI to educate the developer). I'm not actually making any changes to WiX though and I want to publish under MS-PL not MS-RL because if anyone ever wants to pick up this ball and run with it, I'd be honored. I can only assume that OuterCurve won't want to waste going after me... there isn't any money and I'm not doing anything malicious. From: "Rob Mensching" Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 9:01 PM To: "General discussion about the WiX toolset." Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination http://wixtoolset.org/about/license/ -Original Message- From: Nicolás Alvarez [mailto:nicolas.alva...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:48 AM To: General discussion about the WiX toolset. Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination 2013/11/19 Joe Dimagio : > Hey everyone, > > I'm doing some research to see if WiX is right for my corporation to use. > > Reading the MS RL, it looks like if I distribute my product using WiX, > I need to include my source files including the wxs, wxl, wxi, > wixproj, as well as my own product's source code as well. Is this > correct? I'm not a lawyer but this seems like an all encompassing > license that seems pretty prohibitive for a company to use if I'm reading it > correct. No, not at all. That would be like saying that using an open source compiler means you have to distribute your source code if you compiled your binaries with it, or that you have to distribute your code if you used an open source text editor to write it; none of that makes sense. The license only affects WiX, not what you generate with it. However, I would like some clarifications from the developers about code from WiX that gets embedded into the final msi, especially the "standard custom actions". I think that code should be explicitly under a more liberal license... -- Nicolás -- Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk __
Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination
The problem is the way they say "normally" not included. Got to love lawyers. FWIW, I get into grey areas with my tool IsWiX. Include very small pieces of WiX in my solution ( mainly the use of Microsoft.Deployment.WindowsInstaller, the inclusion of schema (XSD) files for validation and snippets of the help file displayed in the UI to educate the developer). I'm not actually making any changes to WiX though and I want to publish under MS-PL not MS-RL because if anyone ever wants to pick up this ball and run with it, I'd be honored. I can only assume that OuterCurve won't want to waste going after me... there isn't any money and I'm not doing anything malicious. From: "Rob Mensching" Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 9:01 PM To: "General discussion about the WiX toolset." Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination http://wixtoolset.org/about/license/ -Original Message- From: Nicolás Alvarez [mailto:nicolas.alva...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:48 AM To: General discussion about the WiX toolset. Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination 2013/11/19 Joe Dimagio : > Hey everyone, > > I'm doing some research to see if WiX is right for my corporation to use. > > Reading the MS RL, it looks like if I distribute my product using WiX, > I need to include my source files including the wxs, wxl, wxi, > wixproj, as well as my own product's source code as well. Is this > correct? I'm not a lawyer but this seems like an all encompassing > license that seems pretty prohibitive for a company to use if I'm reading it > correct. No, not at all. That would be like saying that using an open source compiler means you have to distribute your source code if you compiled your binaries with it, or that you have to distribute your code if you used an open source text editor to write it; none of that makes sense. The license only affects WiX, not what you generate with it. However, I would like some clarifications from the developers about code from WiX that gets embedded into the final msi, especially the "standard custom actions". I think that code should be explicitly under a more liberal license... -- Nicolás -- Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination
http://wixtoolset.org/about/license/ -Original Message- From: Nicolás Alvarez [mailto:nicolas.alva...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:48 AM To: General discussion about the WiX toolset. Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination 2013/11/19 Joe Dimagio : > Hey everyone, > > I'm doing some research to see if WiX is right for my corporation to use. > > Reading the MS RL, it looks like if I distribute my product using WiX, > I need to include my source files including the wxs, wxl, wxi, > wixproj, as well as my own product's source code as well. Is this > correct? I'm not a lawyer but this seems like an all encompassing > license that seems pretty prohibitive for a company to use if I'm reading it > correct. No, not at all. That would be like saying that using an open source compiler means you have to distribute your source code if you compiled your binaries with it, or that you have to distribute your code if you used an open source text editor to write it; none of that makes sense. The license only affects WiX, not what you generate with it. However, I would like some clarifications from the developers about code from WiX that gets embedded into the final msi, especially the "standard custom actions". I think that code should be explicitly under a more liberal license... -- Nicolás -- Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
Re: [WiX-users] Microsoft Reciprocal License explaination
2013/11/19 Joe Dimagio : > Hey everyone, > > I'm doing some research to see if WiX is right for my corporation to use. > > Reading the MS RL, it looks like if I distribute my product using WiX, I > need to include my source files including the wxs, wxl, wxi, wixproj, as > well as my own product's source code as well. Is this correct? I'm not a > lawyer but this seems like an all encompassing license that seems pretty > prohibitive for a company to use if I'm reading it correct. No, not at all. That would be like saying that using an open source compiler means you have to distribute your source code if you compiled your binaries with it, or that you have to distribute your code if you used an open source text editor to write it; none of that makes sense. The license only affects WiX, not what you generate with it. However, I would like some clarifications from the developers about code from WiX that gets embedded into the final msi, especially the "standard custom actions". I think that code should be explicitly under a more liberal license... -- Nicolás -- Shape the Mobile Experience: Free Subscription Software experts and developers: Be at the forefront of tech innovation. Intel(R) Software Adrenaline delivers strategic insight and game-changing conversations that shape the rapidly evolving mobile landscape. Sign up now. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=63431311&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ WiX-users mailing list WiX-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users
