RE: [WSG] Tutorial on styling forms anywhere?
AH!!! Just what I needed. Thank you very much. I'm moving a site from one server to another and I want to try to build the entire site with no tables, as an exercise. I had tables everywhere before - when I built it, tables were my primary layout tool. When I look at the site now, I am astonished at how complicated I made it. It's got bits of tables and includes and stuff everywhere. When I count up all the includes, there were dozens of files, and as I clear out all the tables and other superfluous code, the file sizes are a fraction of what they were, and now it's far easier to read the code and find my way around it. This is such fun. Since I started learning about this subject, its been like driving around a city in a fog, only to discover there's a switch on the dashboard that turns on a GPS and map system. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 18 February 2004 5:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Tutorial on styling forms anywhere? Hello Michael, Is there a good tutorial anywhere that covers this stuff? What I'm looking for is things like how to align the label in relation to the input field it relates to, how to have the labels all aligning to the right, and the input fields aligning to the left of a line down the page (I used to use two columns of a table, right-align the left cells, and left-align the right cells). Here is an example: http://www.quirksmode.org/css/forms.html But you should know: Exactly this wish to style forms doesn't work in NN6 and NN7.0. Me and many collegues tried a lot of things to fix the bug, but there's no way yet to solve the problem. So there are three ways: you can use a simple table or you complete your html with unsemantic tags or you develop a not so well looking but accessible styling. Greetings Stefan * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Tutorial on styling forms anywhere?
I use this look with XHTML/CSS http://www.ddavenportphotography.com/contact.html - Original Message - From: Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:31 AM Subject: [WSG] Tutorial on styling forms anywhere? I've read the excellent tutorial at HTMLDog about Accessible forms (http://www.htmldog.com/guides/htmladvanced/forms.php) and its very very informative. Now I'm experimenting with styling forms - layout of labels and input etc. Is there a good tutorial anywhere that covers this stuff? What I'm looking for is things like how to align the label in relation to the input field it relates to, how to have the labels all aligning to the right, and the input fields aligning to the left of a line down the page (I used to use two columns of a table, right-align the left cells, and left-align the right cells). I'd like to know how to have the label for a 6row textarea input align vertically with the top of the box or the centre rather than the bottom as it does now. I'm thinking if there's a tutorial I'll make faster progress than the trial-and-error approach I'm using at the moment. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Tutorial on styling forms anywhere?
A screenshot of http://www.ddavenportphotography.com/contact.html looks like this: http://lc55.co.uk/test/rbaggs.jpg in Opera 7. Sorry to be the bringer of bad tidings. Regards, JG --- RBaggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use this look with XHTML/CSS http://www.ddavenportphotography.com/contact.html - Original Message - From: Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:31 AM Subject: [WSG] Tutorial on styling forms anywhere? I've read the excellent tutorial at HTMLDog about Accessible forms (http://www.htmldog.com/guides/htmladvanced/forms.php) and its very very informative. Now I'm experimenting with styling forms - layout of labels and input etc. Is there a good tutorial anywhere that covers this stuff? What I'm looking for is things like how to align the label in relation to the input field it relates to, how to have the labels all aligning to the right, and the input fields aligning to the left of a line down the page (I used to use two columns of a table, right-align the left cells, and left-align the right cells). I'd like to know how to have the label for a 6row textarea input align vertically with the top of the box or the centre rather than the bottom as it does now. I'm thinking if there's a tutorial I'll make faster progress than the trial-and-error approach I'm using at the moment. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * _ Why Pay $35 for a .COM, .NET or .ORG Web Address? iDotz.Net offers Cool Domains @ Great Prices! Starting @ $8.75 Go: http://www.idotz.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Validating pages with password protection?
Hi Martin An idea is to log into the protected area and then save the page source locally, and now you can validate it! Anders Ebdrup www.smartpage.dk - Original Message - From: Martin Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 6:52 PM Subject: [WSG] Validating pages with password protection? Hi All How do I use the W3C validator if the pages I need to check are log-in protected (in this instance, I am recoding a load of ASP.NET (.aspx/.ascx) files and have set the files up as if they are running on the Windows IIS server, connecting to a database). You need a username and password to enter any page (it's intrinsic, since the data served-up on the page is specific to the user). Any ideas? Kind regards Martin Chapman -- Web development, identity and design. co-ord.com Limited 9 Tynwald Road West Kirby Merseyside CH48 4DA Tel: +44 (0)151 625 1443 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.co-ord.com -- * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Validating pages with password protection?
Doh! That was a bit obvious (except for me!) Thanks Anders! On 18 Feb 2004, at 18:12, Anders Ebdrup wrote: Hi Martin An idea is to log into the protected area and then save the page source locally, and now you can validate it! Anders Ebdrup www.smartpage.dk - Original Message - From: Martin Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 6:52 PM Subject: [WSG] Validating pages with password protection? Hi All How do I use the W3C validator if the pages I need to check are log-in protected (in this instance, I am recoding a load of ASP.NET (.aspx/.ascx) files and have set the files up as if they are running on the Windows IIS server, connecting to a database). You need a username and password to enter any page (it's intrinsic, since the data served-up on the page is specific to the user). Any ideas? Kind regards Martin Chapman -- Web development, identity and design. co-ord.com Limited 9 Tynwald Road West Kirby Merseyside CH48 4DA Tel: +44 (0)151 625 1443 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.co-ord.com -- * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * Kind regards Martin Chapman -- Web development, identity and design. co-ord.com Limited 9 Tynwald Road West Kirby Merseyside CH48 4DA Tel: +44 (0)151 625 1443 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.co-ord.com -- * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Opera
I'm curious - does anyone really think that getting things spot on for Opera is important? Hasn't this browser got a miniscule user base? And Opera seems to give me almost as many problems as IE anyway. Interested ... Peter On 19/02/2004, at 3:53 AM, LC 55 wrote: A screenshot of http://www.ddavenportphotography.com/contact.html looks like this: http://lc55.co.uk/test/rbaggs.jpg in Opera 7. x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerUniversal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] Opera
I'm curious - does anyone really think that getting things spot on for Opera is important? I'm not sure (someone else on the list may be) but I think Opera is *very* close to adhering to all the CSS2 specs - meaning if you get your page looking sweet in Opera (and mozilla/firebird) everything goes well from there... so yeah, Opera is pretty important from my perspective.. I find IE is pretty forgiving, so your page may lookfine in IE - but it still may have little errors here and there without you knowing. pete o -Original Message-From: Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 8:45 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] Opera I'm curious - does anyone really think that getting things spot on for Opera is important? Hasn't this browser got a miniscule user base? And Opera seems to give me almost as many problems as IE anyway. Interested ... Peter
Re: [WSG] Opera
That's strange because I find that everytime I get a site working in everything else, I check Opera and something's wrong. I suppose this could be that it adheres the closest to the specs, though no one's told me why the old 'margin: 0 auto trick' doesn't seem to work in Opera (ie content that centres in all other browsers is moved about 5px left in Opera). Peter On 19/02/2004, at 9:03 AM, Peter Ottery wrote: I'm not sure (someone else on the list may be) but I think Opera is *very* close to adhering to all the CSS2 specs - meaning if you get your page looking sweet in Opera (and mozilla/firebird) everything goes well from there... so yeah, Opera is pretty important from my perspective.. x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerUniversal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
Re: [WSG] Validating pages with password protection?
On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 07:28 AM, Martin Chapman wrote: Doh! That was a bit obvious (except for me!) Thanks Anders! A bit obvious, but also ridiculously time consuming on anything more than 2 pages :) --- Justin French http://indent.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Validating pages with password protection?
Justin French wrote: On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 07:28 AM, Martin Chapman wrote: Doh! That was a bit obvious (except for me!) Thanks Anders! A bit obvious, but also ridiculously time consuming on anything more than 2 pages :) You can use wget(http://www.gnu.org/software/wget/wget.html) to automate the process. -- Lindsay Evans. Developer, Red Square Productions. [p] 8596.4000 [f] 8596.4001 [w] www.redsquare.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Validating pages with password protection?
Justin French spoke the following wise words on 19/02/2004 9:48 AM EST: A bit obvious, but also ridiculously time consuming on anything more than 2 pages :) Unless you use the developer extension for FireFox... then it's just a matter of right clicking in the browser window then going WebDeveloper-Validate Locally -- tim * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] IE5 Mac and vertical margins
IE 5.2 for the Mac has an annoying habit of collapsing vertical margins. Anyone got the skinny on this? Thanks Peter * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] IE keyboard shortcut
Rex Chung spoke the following wise words on 19/02/2004 10:51 AM EST: does anyone know if there's a keyboard shortcut [in Internet Explorer] for jumping to the next headings (h1,h2,h3 etc) on the page? Nope. http://balasainet.com/iesupersite/support/keyboardshortcuts.htm -- tim * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Opera
It looks fine in Opry 6. I'll need to tweak it somewhere to get it all right. I checked it in MS, NS, Op6, Moz, and Firebird. - Original Message - From: Universal Head To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Opera I'm curious - does anyone really think that getting things spot on for Opera is important? Hasn't this browser got a miniscule user base? And Opera seems to give me almost as many problems as IE anyway.Interested ...PeterOn 19/02/2004, at 3:53 AM, LC 55 wrote: A screenshot of http://www.ddavenportphotography.com/contact.htmllooks like this: http://lc55.co.uk/test/rbaggs.jpg in Opera 7.Universal HeadDesign That Works.7/43 Bridge Rd StanmoreNSW 2048 AustraliaT (+612) 9517 1466F (+612) 9565 4747E [EMAIL PROTECTED]W www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] IE keyboard shortcut
You could perhaps use Access Keys ... Wendy Phillips Job Ready (Learning Development) Customer Sales Service ___ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 61 3 9203 2363 Building 1, Ground Floor, 301 Burwood Hwy Burwood 3125 Our Intranet Site http://www.in.telstra.com.au/ism/retail_learning_cs/ -Original Message- From: Tim Lucas [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 19 February 2004 11:23 am To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] IE keyboard shortcut Rex Chung spoke the following wise words on 19/02/2004 10:51 AM EST: does anyone know if there's a keyboard shortcut [in Internet Explorer] for jumping to the next headings (h1,h2,h3 etc) on the page? Nope. http://balasainet.com/iesupersite/support/keyboardshortcuts.htm -- tim * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Opera
I keep biting my tongue on this subject. Let me state first... I have no particular love of IE. It's what the vast majority of my audience uses and therefore it's my default browser. If Mozilla or something else takes the market share, I'll change my default (as I did when Netscape 4.x lost dominance). Whether you like or dislike Win IE it IS the dominant browser. The time spent massaging code for browsers should be spent proportionally with the use of the browser, especially when the browser is anything less than version 1.x. In an ideal world where there were no rendering bugs or different behaviours (and IE is of course the worst offender) this wouldn't be an issue. Also remember that only developers frequently use different browsers. If there are slight differences in the layout between browsers, don't worry about it (as long as it doesn't break). 99.9% of the audience will never compare your cross-browser pixel-perfectness. Yes, it's great to check on all possible but anyone spending any amount time on other browsers like firefox and camino simply amazes me. They're pre-release (developer) browsers or Technology Previews in their own words. The public aren't using them (or if they are they have already been told not to expect them to work flawlessly). If they were finished (and bug-free) they would be at version 1.x and would be promoted as the next commercial release browser. At that point I would add them to my Must Work in production category. Mozilla 1.6 is the current public release. Konqueror is an Open Source web browser with HTML4.0 compliance... 'nuff said on that one (unless you are actually using HTML 4.0 of course, and I doubt that anyone here still is). Having said all that (and this is where my argument completely crumbles), Opera IS a commercial release but apparently has a very small market share. They are their own worst enemy on this front as (and I haven't checked a release for a while) the last version I installed defaulted to a Win IE user_agent string. How are we ever to know how many people are actually using Opera. Obviously your own server log files can give you the best picture of your users but a trend can be obtained from the following: http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2004/January/browser.php http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm http://www.webreference.com/stats/browser.html For a site with no particular web development bias (meaning that the browser stats for a site like webstandardsgroup.org will never be a good global benchmark as the audience is likely to use a wider range of browsers), take a look at the browser/OS stats for the Australian Museum. http://www.amonline.net.au/website/reports/amonline/0401/index_08_b.htm Unfortunately this is a pretty old WebTrends that doesn't know about a lot of newer browsers so they come under others. Please send flames off-list, and remember that this is only my personal view, and even Russ probably disagrees with me to some extent. P I'm curious - does anyone really think that getting things spot on for Opera is important? Hasn't this browser got a miniscule user base? And Opera seems to give me almost as many problems as IE anyway. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Image replace or ALT text?
Cameron Adams wrote: It reminded me as to a point I'd thought about regarding background image replacement. Sure, using a ul with visually hidden text and background images for navigation is semantically correct, but wasn't it much better in the old days when you used an actual image with alt text and you knew what something was even before it loaded. Especially important for navigation items. Interesting, I'd never thought of the drawbacks of the various image replacement techniques in regards to showing text while images load. Personally, I *hate* having images as navigation items, mostly because if (when) the navigation changes, you'll need to create new graphics for it. I usually have a generic background image, with the text part of the nav item as actual text. Obviously this isn't really an option for headers etc. when the client wants some particular font for branding purposes or whatever. As a complete aside - what the hell ever happened to embedded fonts? AFAIK it's still part of the CSS spec, and IE NS4 implemented it pretty well, but Moz seems to have dropped it completely. It seems (to me, anyway) to be the perfect answer - create a downloadable version of whatever crazy font you need, control the letter spacing etc. with CSS, add your gradient/picture of a cat/whatever as a background image, and voila! no need for any of this other text-hiding craziness. Anyway, I think you are probably quite right: if you have a dire need for a bunch of images-as-nav-items, then they would be more usable as images - definitely less semantically correct, possibly even less accessible, but more usable nonetheless. I'm aware of image replacement techniques that also allow you to see text when the image isn't there, but they seem very clumsy, so I'm asking whether the old skool method's usability outweighs its unfashionable unsemanticness. What are some of these techniques? I don't think I've seen any that do that around (not that I've looked very hard, mind you :) -- Lindsay Evans. Developer, Red Square Productions. [p] 8596.4000 [f] 8596.4001 [w] www.redsquare.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Image replace or ALT text?
Douglas Bowman has an article that goes in depth on one of the image replacement techniques, and there are links to other techniques at the bottom of the article: http://www.stopdesign.com/also/articles/replace_text/ Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Image replace or ALT text? Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:39:10 +1100 Cameron Adams wrote: It reminded me as to a point I'd thought about regarding background image replacement. Sure, using a ul with visually hidden text and background images for navigation is semantically correct, but wasn't it much better in the old days when you used an actual image with alt text and you knew what something was even before it loaded. Especially important for navigation items. Interesting, I'd never thought of the drawbacks of the various image replacement techniques in regards to showing text while images load. Personally, I *hate* having images as navigation items, mostly because if (when) the navigation changes, you'll need to create new graphics for it. I usually have a generic background image, with the text part of the nav item as actual text. Obviously this isn't really an option for headers etc. when the client wants some particular font for branding purposes or whatever. As a complete aside - what the hell ever happened to embedded fonts? AFAIK it's still part of the CSS spec, and IE NS4 implemented it pretty well, but Moz seems to have dropped it completely. It seems (to me, anyway) to be the perfect answer - create a downloadable version of whatever crazy font you need, control the letter spacing etc. with CSS, add your gradient/picture of a cat/whatever as a background image, and voila! no need for any of this other text-hiding craziness. Anyway, I think you are probably quite right: if you have a dire need for a bunch of images-as-nav-items, then they would be more usable as images - definitely less semantically correct, possibly even less accessible, but more usable nonetheless. I'm aware of image replacement techniques that also allow you to see text when the image isn't there, but they seem very clumsy, so I'm asking whether the old skool method's usability outweighs its unfashionable unsemanticness. What are some of these techniques? I don't think I've seen any that do that around (not that I've looked very hard, mind you :) -- Lindsay Evans. Developer, Red Square Productions. [p] 8596.4000 [f] 8596.4001 [w] www.redsquare.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * Regards, David McDonald Web Designer http://www.davidmcdonald.org * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] Aural Property in CSS2???
Hey everyone, stumbling around the internet... I found this link: http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/css/propindex/aural.htm it says that CSS2 has a feature - "speak" where the computer should READ out what is inside the tag?? And a lot of other "Aural" features... Is this true? I tested it out and i couldnt get it to work... So I am assuming its not implemented yet... Thanks! -- Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Http://www.neester.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Image replace or ALT text?
There's an IR technique with text here: http://levin.grundeis.net/files/20030809/alternatefir.html __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Aural Property in CSS2???
There's lots of cool stuff in CSS 2, but the spec itself is broken, I can't remember if it ever even became a W3C recomendation or not. CSS 2.1 is in its final stages now and its specifically designed to fix the problems in the CSS 2 spec. In light of this - I don't think any browsers have actually made any sort of real effort to completely support CSS 2 yet. So in short - forget CSS 2 - it died before it ever got off the ground. CSS 2.1 is where its at but assuming that it becomes a recommendation sometime in the next few months - I doubt you will see any browser fully support it within the next 12 months and you are looking at a number of years before you see broad based support. Another interesting point is that (AFAIK) screen readers have some of the worst CSS support out of any of the browsers barring lynx (which doesn't support CSS at all). I think most of the aural stuff in CSS is aimed a screen readers and other audio agents (like voicemail services) not your common visual browsers. On a kind of side topic there was a really interesting blog post a while back where a guy had a chat to the IE dev teams and managed get them to take feature requests via his blog. The requests are listed at: http://scoblecomments.scripting.com/comments?u=1011p=6183link=http%3A%2F%2 Fradio.weblogs.com%2F0001011%2F2004%2F01%2F14.html%23a6183. Well worth a read. Mostly people asked for tabbed browsing, PNG support and CSS 2 support. The most interesting comment in there is one from Tantek Celik. When Tantek talks about CSS - its best to really listen very closely because he is at the center of it all - he was formally in charge of CSS support in the IE/Mac team and is now part of the CSS working group at the W3C. Do a search for tantek read his comment - there is lots of interesting stuff in there. Cheers Mark -- Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: 9956 6388 Mob: 0410 458 201 Fax: 9956 8433 http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Aural Property in CSS2???
still its not CSS2 then is it??? Yes it is. if its not controlled by the browser but rather external software.. A screen reader is a browser in a sense, actually user agent is more acurracte I guess, but the point is they do read web pages. i was looking for the CSS code to play a WAV file anyone? Barking up the wrong tree mate - you're going to need an external player for that. I'd suggest Flash as the best option. 2 points: + Do you really need sound? IMHO decorative sound like background music on web pages sucks. Remember those pages in the late ninties with midi loops? cringe/ + If you really need sound - don't have it play automatically. Make the user click a play button or something. (Just a personal opinion). Cheers Mark -- Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: 9956 6388 Mob: 0410 458 201 Fax: 9956 8433 http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Opera
Thanks for all the info on Opera folks. My practice up to now has been to code to look good in Safari and Mozilla, and then fix up the IE problems. Good points and info all, cheers. Peter x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerUniversal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] Aural Property in CSS2???
I'm not a not huge fan of these CSS2 properties. What they are trying to achieve is important, but how they achieve it is a mess at best. When voiceXML first started appearing people asked why another language? There is no getting away from the fact that html was designed for visual presentation not audible presentation. Screen readers are doing a pretty good job considering how much of a wadge it really is. Markups like voiceXML are required to really describe content in a suitable way for audible presentation / interaction and many VoiceXML parameter values follow the conventions used in CSS. http://www.voicexml.org/specs/multimodal/x+v/11/examples/ Still a long way to go... Regards Chris Blown Another interesting point is that (AFAIK) screen readers have some of the worst CSS support out of any of the browsers barring lynx (which doesn't support CSS at all). I think most of the aural stuff in CSS is aimed a screen readers and other audio agents (like voicemail services) not your common visual browsers. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Tutorial on styling forms anywhere?
Hi Scott...Opera details, Version 7.11 Build 2887 Regards, JG --- scott parsons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which version of opera 7? there are like 3, and they all have rendering diferences LC 55 wrote: A screenshot of http://www.ddavenportphotography.com/contact.html looks like this: http://lc55.co.uk/test/rbaggs.jpg in Opera 7. Sorry to be the bringer of bad tidings. Regards, JG --- RBaggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use this look with XHTML/CSS http://www.ddavenportphotography.com/contact.html - Original Message - From: Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:31 AM Subject: [WSG] Tutorial on styling forms anywhere? I've read the excellent tutorial at HTMLDog about Accessible forms (http://www.htmldog.com/guides/htmladvanced/forms.php) and its very very informative. Now I'm experimenting with styling forms - layout of labels and input etc. Is there a good tutorial anywhere that covers this stuff? What I'm looking for is things like how to align the label in relation to the input field it relates to, how to have the labels all aligning to the right, and the input fields aligning to the left of a line down the page (I used to use two columns of a table, right-align the left cells, and left-align the right cells). I'd like to know how to have the label for a 6row textarea input align vertically with the top of the box or the centre rather than the bottom as it does now. I'm thinking if there's a tutorial I'll make faster progress than the trial-and-error approach I'm using at the moment. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * _ Why Pay $35 for a .COM, .NET or .ORG Web Address? iDotz.Net offers Cool Domains @ Great Prices! Starting @ $8.75 Go: http://www.idotz.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * _ Why Pay $35 for a .COM, .NET or .ORG Web Address? iDotz.Net offers Cool Domains @ Great Prices! Starting @ $8.75 Go: http://www.idotz.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Opera
Peter Probably because Firefox/bird and Camino etc browsers are all built/branched off the same standards compliant engine. Firefox 0.8 is built off Mozilla 1.6 - Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040207 Firefox/0.8 which is in turn built off Gecko. If it was its own engine, then yeah sure don't build for it as a beta. http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/roadmap.html - see how 1.0 will be branched off the Moz 1.7 code. I agree that it's a beta release and we should be careful about doing things with it (betas change abruptly - just look at how the Extensions Manager broke in FF0.8 ) but viewing a site in Firefox 0.8 is very close to using Mozilla 1.6 (or Netscape 7 without the guff). Cheers James The bugs seen are more likely to be application level than standards compliant level. Peter Firminger wrote: Yes, it's great to check on all possible but anyone spending any amount time on other browsers like firefox and camino simply amazes me. They're pre-release (developer) browsers or Technology Previews in their own words. The public aren't using them (or if they are they have already been told not to expect them to work flawlessly). If they were finished (and bug-free) they would be at version 1.x and would be promoted as the next commercial release browser. At that point I would add them to my Must Work in production category. Mozilla 1.6 is the current public release. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
