RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf

2005-07-24 Thread Tatham Oddie \(Fuel Advance\) 








Mugur,

 

This article only
discusses reducing the HTML size… which if you take a look at the site is
already rather anorexic. Loading an image once, caching it for potentially
weeks, and not loading anything other than small HTML pages as they browse the
rest of the site seems like the smartest way it’s going to happen.

 

Basically, unless
there’s some fancy new way to encode the image, I don’t see any point is
destroying an otherwise good design that our VCD team has generated for the
sake of saving a few seconds once-off.

 

Yes – I think 120kb is
big (not huge though). If there is a way to make it smaller, feel free to
suggest and I’ll implement. Otherwise, the speed of an extreme minority of our
user base shouldn’t restrict how we work.

 

Also, I’m not ‘assuming’
as you suggest – we have bandwidth stats from the current broadleaf.com.au site
to suggest that narrowband isn’t a significant concern.

 



 

 

Thanks,

 

Tatham Oddie

Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea

www.fueladvance.com











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mugur Padurean
Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 3:48 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check:
Broadleaf



 

Sorry, but quoting
Microsoft page as good design example is not a good ideea. No web page that big
IS a good ideea.
Maybe this will help you:

http://www.stopdesign.com/articles/throwing_tables/

The purpose of the article it's slightly different but it's a very good
motivator for small size web pages.
Also asuming that your clients will not care or will not be affected by a web
page size does not sound to me like a good business atitute.

I have no intention to annoy you or to start a rant. It's just just that i'm on
ADSL connection ... half the planet away. And big pages load slowly, almost as
dial-up (or so it feels).



On 7/25/05, Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
wrote:



Edward,

 

Thanks for your input, however we didn't
really consider this a big issue as:

 


 most of the
 target market will be on office internet connections and ADSL is basically
 a minimum for such people in Australia


 


 the image is only
 downloaded once, and will be reused in the content pages, just with
 different column layouts


 


 because the image
 is only downloaded once, only the first page hit will be slow – and first
 page hit occurs because users are after something on your site - they are
 prepared to wait a bit longer to get it; keeping tight page sizes is more
 critical when moving around a site in which case we're only about 4k total


 


 because the image
 is loaded through CSS, all of the content will be positioned and usable
 anyway before the background clogs the connection – just that a few
 seconds later the thing will start to look good as well


 


 many larger sites
 are starting to acknowledge all of these points as well:


 


 
  microsoft.com home page
  is pushing 140k
  sxc.hu home page is pushing 107k
  yahoo.com.au home page is
  pushing 167k
  ninemsn.com home page is
  pushing 136k
  news.com.au home page is
  pushing 383k
 




 

Thanks,

 

Tatham
 Oddie

Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea

www.fueladvance.com 











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf
Of Edward Clarke
Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 3:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Site Check:
Broadleaf



 

I suspect the 120Kb footprint of the
background image is of more concern to most visitors.

 





Edward Clarke

ECommerce and Software Consultant

 

TN38 Consulting

http://blog.tn38.net 

 

Creative Media Centre

17-19 Robertson Street

Hastings

East Sussex

TN34 1HL

United Kingdom











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf
Of Matthew Vanderhorst
Sent: 24 July 2005
17:52
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG]
Site Check: Broadleaf



 

The design is very nice but the background image of the tree repeats.  It is not noticeable until the resolution goes beyond 1024x768.  There were some css validation errors as well (http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile="">).


 


  





  


 


   



 

Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf

2005-07-24 Thread Mugur Padurean 
Sorry, but quoting Microsoft page as good design example is not a good ideea. No web page that big IS a good ideea.
Maybe this will help you:

http://www.stopdesign.com/articles/throwing_tables/

The purpose of the article it's slightly different but it's a very good motivator for small size web pages.
Also asuming that your clients will not care or will not be affected by
a web page size does not sound to me like a good business atitute.

I have no intention to annoy you or to start a rant. It's just just
that i'm on ADSL connection ... half the planet away. And big pages
load slowly, almost as dial-up (or so it feels).On 7/25/05, Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:



















Edward,

 

Thanks for your input, however we didn't really
consider this a big issue as:

 


 most of the target market will
 be on office internet connections and ADSL is basically a minimum for such
 people in Australia


 


 the image is only downloaded
 once, and will be reused in the content pages, just with different column
 layouts


 


 because the image is only
 downloaded once, only the first page hit will be slow – and first
 page hit occurs because users are after something on your site - they are
 prepared to wait a bit longer to get it; keeping tight page sizes is more
 critical when moving around a site in which case we're only about 4k
 total


 


 because the image is loaded
 through CSS, all of the content will be positioned and usable anyway before
 the background clogs the connection – just that a few seconds later
 the thing will start to look good as well


 


 many larger sites are starting
 to acknowledge all of these points as well:


 


 
  microsoft.com home page is
  pushing 140k
  sxc.hu home page is pushing
  107k
  yahoo.com.au home page is
  pushing 167k
  ninemsn.com home page is
  pushing 136k
  news.com.au home page is
  pushing 383k
 




 

Thanks,

 

Tatham Oddie

Fuel Advance
- Ignite Your Idea

www.fueladvance.com












From:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Edward Clarke
Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 3:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Site Check:
Broadleaf



 

I suspect the 120Kb footprint of the background image
is of more concern to most visitors.

 





Edward Clarke

ECommerce and Software Consultant

 

TN38 Consulting

http://blog.tn38.net


 

Creative Media Centre

17-19
  Robertson Street

Hastings

East Sussex

TN34 1HL

United Kingdom











From:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Matthew Vanderhorst
Sent: 24 July 2005 17:52
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check:
Broadleaf



 

The design is very nice but the background image of the tree repeats.  It is not noticeable until the resolution goes beyond 1024x768.  There were some css validation errors as well (

http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile="">).
 

 
 
 

RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf

2005-07-24 Thread Tatham Oddie \(Fuel Advance\) 








Edward,

 

Thanks for your input, however we didn’t really
consider this a big issue as:

 


 most of the target market will
 be on office internet connections and ADSL is basically a minimum for such
 people in Australia


 


 the image is only downloaded
 once, and will be reused in the content pages, just with different column
 layouts


 


 because the image is only
 downloaded once, only the first page hit will be slow – and first
 page hit occurs because users are after something on your site - they are
 prepared to wait a bit longer to get it; keeping tight page sizes is more
 critical when moving around a site in which case we’re only about 4k
 total


 


 because the image is loaded
 through CSS, all of the content will be positioned and usable anyway before
 the background clogs the connection – just that a few seconds later
 the thing will start to look good as well


 


 many larger sites are starting
 to acknowledge all of these points as well:


 


 
  microsoft.com home page is
  pushing 140k
  sxc.hu home page is pushing
  107k
  yahoo.com.au home page is
  pushing 167k
  ninemsn.com home page is
  pushing 136k
  news.com.au home page is
  pushing 383k
 




 

Thanks,

 

Tatham Oddie

Fuel Advance
- Ignite Your Idea

www.fueladvance.com











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Clarke
Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 3:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Site Check:
Broadleaf



 

I suspect the 120Kb footprint of the background image
is of more concern to most visitors.

 





Edward Clarke

ECommerce and Software Consultant

 

TN38 Consulting

http://blog.tn38.net

 

Creative Media Centre

17-19
  Robertson Street

Hastings

East Sussex

TN34 1HL

United Kingdom











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Vanderhorst
Sent: 24 July 2005 17:52
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check:
Broadleaf



 

The design is very nice but the background image of the tree repeats.  It is not noticeable until the resolution goes beyond 1024x768.  There were some css validation errors as well (http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile="">).



 



 



  

RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf

2005-07-24 Thread Tatham Oddie \(Fuel Advance\) 
Rowan,

Thanks for your feedback.

> I'd remove all the ">" in each list item and replace this with an image on

> the item bullet points.

Done.

> Also adding a label and/or legend on the search field (and hiding it with 
> CSS if desired) would increase usability.

Done.

> Personally I'd also 'no-repeat' the bg image as it doesn't look as good on

> pages with a lot of content.

Done.

> I just noticed that there is something disabling the scroll-bars. Which is

> not good when the browser window is smaller than the content or the 
> font-size is increased. This makes the site hard to use.

In progress.

> Rowan



Thanks,

Tatham Oddie
Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea
www.fueladvance.com


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RE: [WSG] What not to do for colour blind users

2005-07-24 Thread Peter Firminger 
For those that haven't seen it, the OzEmail page that James referred to is
http://homesite.service.ozemail.com.au/sidenav.html/help/systemstatus

To me the colour difference of the three ticks isn't distinguishable. I see
a tick and think, "the service is fine". Bad use of both colour and
iconography. Any issue should have a cross rather than a tick to indicate a
problem. They did add the alt text following my complaints though so at
least I had some indication that the glass was half full.

Peter


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Re: [WSG] What not to do for colour blind users

2005-07-24 Thread Mike Brown 

David Pietersen wrote:
Mordechai is totally right in that it is hue that makes it difficult, 
but it is only within the specific context of combining the two (either 
Red/Green or Blue/Green).
 
I had a series of progressively more advanced CB tests when I went to 
join the Army, and ended up with a rating of 19, with 20 being the worst 
(on their scale anyway).  I can totally see the difference between Red 
and Green, and in 99.9 percent of the time it makes no difference to 
anything.  The only time I notice it is when someone wants me to look at 
the pretty red bird sitting in the green tree (unless it moves, I will 
NEVER find it), or once when I was driving past a field everyone wanted 
me to stop and take photos and it took me 10 mins to work out it was an 
apple orchid in full bloom- all I could see was a bunch of boring 
trees.  The reason you can't be an electrician is that if there is a red 
wire in a bundle containing a lot of green ones, there is little chance 
you would see it.
 
I can't ever recall a website that caused me grief.  If I have come 
across one, it would have still been usable for me, I just would not see 
it that same way as the author.
 
dp.


This is a site I always show people to illustrate red/green colour 
blindness:

http://centricle.com/ref/css/filters/

I find it extremely difficult to tell the red cells from the green 
cells. I think it's a good example of how not to use red and green - ie 
together and in small areas. The site's still usable (although less 
usable for me than normal sighted people), but if it relied *only* on 
red and green to signal differences, it would be just able unsuable.


Mike

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RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf

2005-07-24 Thread Tatham Oddie \(Fuel Advance\) 








Matt,

 

I’ve fixed the background, and will reupload
shortly. Unfortunately all of our workstations are widescreen laptops, so while
we run higher res, we’re still only 900px high. Thanks for noticing.

 

Regarding the CSS errors – they are all IE
hacks, and besides having to add extra stylesheet documents I don’t see a
way to make the validator happy. I’m really not interested in the whole
conditional comments thing because they declarations get split up and things
just get confusing. If you know of a similar hack to _property:value; that achieves
the same outcome and validates, please let me know and I’ll change it.

 



 

 

Thanks,

 

Tatham Oddie

Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea

www.fueladvance.com











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Vanderhorst
Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 2:52 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check:
Broadleaf



 

The design is very nice but the background image of
the tree repeats.  It is not noticeable until the resolution goes beyond
1024x768.  There were some css validation errors as well (http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile="">).

Matthew Vanderhorst


Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) wrote: 

Hi
all,

 

I’ve just placed the first page of a new site on
our test-drive server:

 

http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/Broadleaf/

 

Which is a redo of:

 

 
http://www.broadleaf.com.au/

 

There is also a mock up which shows how it is meant to
look:

 

http://fueladvance.com/broadleaf/HomePagePreview.jpg

 

I have tested in IE6 and FF1.0.6PC and it seems to
work fine. If a few of you could take a look in other browsers that’d be
great.

 

Also, any design / coding suggestions would be greatly
appreciated. J

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Tatham
 Oddie



Fuel Advance
- Ignite Your Idea

www.fueladvance.com



 

 



 No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 7/22/2005 

Re: [WSG] What not to do for colour blind users

2005-07-24 Thread David Pietersen 
Mordechai is totally right in that it is hue that makes it difficult, but it is only within the specific context of combining the two (either Red/Green or Blue/Green).
 
I had a series of progressively more advanced CB tests when I went to join the Army, and ended up with a rating of 19, with 20 being the worst (on their scale anyway).  I can totally see the difference between Red and Green, and in 
99.9 percent of the time it makes no difference to anything.  The only time I notice it is when someone wants me to look at the pretty red bird sitting in the green tree (unless it moves, I will NEVER find it), or once when I was driving past a field everyone wanted me to stop and take photos and it took me 10 mins to work out it was an apple orchid in full bloom- all I could see was a bunch of boring trees.  The reason you can't be an electrician is that if there is a red wire in a bundle containing a lot of green ones, there is little chance you would see it.

 
I can't ever recall a website that caused me grief.  If I have come across one, it would have still been usable for me, I just would not see it that same way as the author.
 
dp.
 
 
 
On 25/07/05, Mordechai Peller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
James Ellis wrote:>>The box below contains a row of random letters. Most of the letters>>are coloured white, some are highlighted. Please enter ONLY the RED
>>HIGHLIGHTED characters in the order in which they appear in the box>>below and press "GO".>If it's only red or white letters on a black background, it shouldn't bea problem in most cases, but it's less than ideal.
>I believe red appears grey to red/green colour blind people.>It depends on the form of color blindness. For someone with total colorblindness, then yes, it would appear gray, but this form is very rare.
The most common form is red/green. It that case, depending of theseverity, reds and greens do appear to have color, but depending onwhich hue, telling the difference between the two is often very difficult.
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Re: [WSG] Firefox top margin

2005-07-24 Thread dwain 

Webmaster wrote:

Great guess, Dwain! You were right. I would have hoped that any margin I set
to #masthead h1 would have been applied inside #header -> #masthead.
Annoying. I suppose that explcitly applying position: relative to it might
have done the trick.

Instead I've changed the margin to 0px and used padding on the h1 instead
(which is probably more correct).

Thanks muchly.


glad i could help.

dwain
--
Dwain Alford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.alforddesigngroup.com

"The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."
Wassily Kandinsky, "Concerning The Spiritual In Art"
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Re: [WSG] Firefox top margin

2005-07-24 Thread Kay Smoljak 
On 7/25/05, Webmaster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Great guess, Dwain! You were right. I would have hoped that any margin I set
> to #masthead h1 would have been applied inside #header -> #masthead.
> Annoying. I suppose that explcitly applying position: relative to it might
> have done the trick.

Margins are always applied to the outside of the element, and padding
is applied to the inside. There is an excellent tutorial on CSS
positioning at http://www.brainjar.com/ which explains how all the
elements and their properties interact - I must have read it 20 times
over when I started.

Another good tip is to use Firefox or Mozilla with the web developer
toolbar, and turn on "outline block level elements". This shows you
the exact space that each element is occupying.

Cheers,
K.

-- 
Kay Smoljak
new standards blog: http://kay.zombiecoder.com/
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Re: [WSG] Firefox top margin

2005-07-24 Thread David Laakso 

Webmaster wrote:


Hi guys,

I'm sure this has been covered but it didn't appear in an archive search.
How in blazes does one remove the top margin in Firefox? I've add 0px margin
and padding to *, html, boday and my top DIV and still it persists.

I've already tried removing the first hidden DIV and anchor to no avail.

No hacks please. I'm aiming for a single stylesheet that will validate.
Hopeful, I know. ;)

And is 100.01% still the recommended font-size for body?

 


Zero all vertical margins and vertical padding.
Change and add:
html, body { font: 100 100.01% Geneva, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 
sans-serif; margin: 0; padding: 0; }

p { margin: 0; padding: 0; }
Your font size on body is a safe cross-browser assumption.
Regards,
David Laakso



--
David Laakso
http://www.dlaakso.com/


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Re: [WSG] What not to do for colour blind users

2005-07-24 Thread Mordechai Peller 

James Ellis wrote:


The box below contains a row of random letters. Most of the letters
are coloured white, some are highlighted. Please enter ONLY the RED
HIGHLIGHTED characters in the order in which they appear in the box
below and press "GO".


If it's only red or white letters on a black background, it shouldn't be 
a problem in most cases, but it's less than ideal.



I believe red appears grey to red/green colour blind people.

It depends on the form of color blindness. For someone with total color 
blindness, then yes, it would appear gray, but this form is very rare. 
The most common form is red/green. It that case, depending of the 
severity, reds and greens do appear to have color, but depending on 
which hue, telling the difference between the two is often very difficult.

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for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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RE: [WSG] Firefox top margin

2005-07-24 Thread Webmaster 
Great guess, Dwain! You were right. I would have hoped that any margin I set
to #masthead h1 would have been applied inside #header -> #masthead.
Annoying. I suppose that explcitly applying position: relative to it might
have done the trick.

Instead I've changed the margin to 0px and used padding on the h1 instead
(which is probably more correct).

Thanks muchly.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 12:53 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Firefox top margin

Webmaster wrote:
> Hi guys,
>  
> I'm sure this has been covered but it didn't appear in an archive search.
> How in blazes does one remove the top margin in Firefox? I've add 0px 
> margin and padding to *, html, boday and my top DIV and still it persists.
> 

without a link to a live page i can only guess that it's the margin setting
on the #masthead h1.

dwain
--
Dwain Alford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.alforddesigngroup.com

"The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner
impulse must find suitable expression."
Wassily Kandinsky, "Concerning The Spiritual In Art"
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

**
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 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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Re: [WSG] Firefox top margin

2005-07-24 Thread dwain 

Webmaster wrote:

Hi guys,
 
I'm sure this has been covered but it didn't appear in an archive search.

How in blazes does one remove the top margin in Firefox? I've add 0px margin
and padding to *, html, boday and my top DIV and still it persists.



without a link to a live page i can only guess that it's the margin 
setting on the #masthead h1.


dwain
--
Dwain Alford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.alforddesigngroup.com

"The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."
Wassily Kandinsky, "Concerning The Spiritual In Art"
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] Firefox top margin

2005-07-24 Thread Webmaster 
Hi guys,
 
I'm sure this has been covered but it didn't appear in an archive search.
How in blazes does one remove the top margin in Firefox? I've add 0px margin
and padding to *, html, boday and my top DIV and still it persists.

I've already tried removing the first hidden DIV and anchor to no avail.

No hacks please. I'm aiming for a single stylesheet that will validate.
Hopeful, I know. ;)

And is 100.01% still the recommended font-size for body?

No live link I'm afraid but the relevant code follows.

Thanks in advance,
Paul

CSS
---

* html, body
{
padding: 0px;
margin: 0px;
}
body
{
font-size: 100.01%;
font-family: Verdana, Arial;
}
#header
{

border-width: 0px;
margin: 0px;
padding: 0px;
display: block;
background: #005CAB;
}
#masthead
{
margin: 0px;
padding: 0px;
display: block;
height: 52px;
border-width: 0px;
background: #005CAB url(../images/logohead.gif) no-repeat 0px 0px;
}
#masthead h1
{
padding: 0;
margin: 0.2em 0.2em 0 0;
text-align: right;
color: #fff;
}


HTML




  This site will look much better in a browser that supports http://www.webstandards.org/upgrade/"; 
  title="Download a browser that complies with Web standards.">web
standards, but it is accessible to any 
  browser or Internet device.




Australasian Society for HIV Medicine


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RE: [WSG] Understanding inheritance (well, trying to)

2005-07-24 Thread John Yip 

Matt,

Thanks for pointing that out!

John



Best Regards,
John Yip
Technical Manager
Nano Systems Pty Limited
226 Victoria Street
BEACONSFIELD, NSW 2015
Tel: +61 2 9341 3366
Fax: +61 2 9341 3377
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web-site: http://www.nanosystems.com.au
We are now providing web hosting, domain name registration and web design 
services. Please go to http://www.nanohosting.com.au/ for more details.


=
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The original e-mail was sent on July 25, 2005
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of matt andrews
Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 11:08 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Understanding inheritance (well, trying to)

hi John

I'm afraid this is incorrect.

The quoted CSS selectors were for classes and IDs, without being
element-specific.  Thus it makes no difference whether you apply the
class to a span or a div.  There's no need for any extra markup.  And
it seems to me that the question is one of explaining CSS specificity,
not asking for a change in markup.

Suggest you read Russ' earlier reply closely.

cheers,

matt andrews.

On 25/07/05, John Yip wrote:
> When the ID and the CLASS have the different value on the same
> attribute, the ID always wins. However, you can use  to
> achieve what you want.
> 
> 
> Paragraph one
> Paragraph two
> Paragraph three
> 
> 
> Hope that helps
> 
> John

> -Original Message-
> From: listdad
> On Behalf Of Hope Stewart
> Sent: Saturday, 23 July 2005 5:41 PM
> To: Web Standards Group
> Subject: [WSG] Understanding inheritance (well, trying to)
> 
> There's something about inheritance that I don't understand. Say in my
> style
> sheet I have:
> 
> body { color: black }
> #content {}
> #hilite p { color: red }
> 
> If I have three paragraphs in the div #hilite and I want the text of
one
> of
> them to be black instead of red, I define this class for that
paragraph:
> 
> normal { color: black }
> 
> But I find this doesn't work. For it to work, I have to define the
class
> with the div ID, like this:
> 
> #hilite .normal { color: black }
> 
> What is it about the laws of inheritance that means the class alone
> won't
> work??
> 
> Hope Stewart
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Re: [WSG] Understanding inheritance (well, trying to)

2005-07-24 Thread matt andrews 
hi John

I'm afraid this is incorrect.

The quoted CSS selectors were for classes and IDs, without being
element-specific.  Thus it makes no difference whether you apply the
class to a span or a div.  There's no need for any extra markup.  And
it seems to me that the question is one of explaining CSS specificity,
not asking for a change in markup.

Suggest you read Russ' earlier reply closely.

cheers,

matt andrews.

On 25/07/05, John Yip wrote:
> When the ID and the CLASS have the different value on the same
> attribute, the ID always wins. However, you can use  to
> achieve what you want.
> 
> 
> Paragraph one
> Paragraph two
> Paragraph three
> 
> 
> Hope that helps
> 
> John

> -Original Message-
> From: listdad
> On Behalf Of Hope Stewart
> Sent: Saturday, 23 July 2005 5:41 PM
> To: Web Standards Group
> Subject: [WSG] Understanding inheritance (well, trying to)
> 
> There's something about inheritance that I don't understand. Say in my
> style
> sheet I have:
> 
> body { color: black }
> #content {}
> #hilite p { color: red }
> 
> If I have three paragraphs in the div #hilite and I want the text of one
> of
> them to be black instead of red, I define this class for that paragraph:
> 
> normal { color: black }
> 
> But I find this doesn't work. For it to work, I have to define the class
> with the div ID, like this:
> 
> #hilite .normal { color: black }
> 
> What is it about the laws of inheritance that means the class alone
> won't
> work??
> 
> Hope Stewart
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Re: [WSG] Apache DTD problem

2005-07-24 Thread Patrick H. Lauke 

Peter McCarthy wrote:

My pages display fine on 
hosted apache webspace, but on my local apache server it wont display 
the page unless I take out the DTD declaration, It just displays a blank 
page with no error message. Is there a configuration setting I have 
missed somewhere ??? The DTD Im using is 



http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd";>



Apache itself shouldn't have a problem. You haven't got PHP running 
locally as well, by any chance? In that case, it may be that, if you 
also have PHP's error reporting off and short_tags enabled, that the 
parser erroneously expects the text after error, and silently stops processing it - in which case you should check 
your php.ini to set error reporting and disable short tags (see 
www.php.net/manual for specifics).


--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__

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Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf

2005-07-24 Thread RMW Web Publishing 
I'd remove all the "»" in each list item and replace this with an image on 
the item bullet points.

Also adding a label and/or legend on the search field (and hiding it with 
CSS if desired) would increase usability.

Personally I'd also 'no-repeat' the bg image as it doesn't look as good on 
pages with a lot of content.

I just noticed that there is something disabling the scroll-bars. Which is 
not good when the browser window is smaller than the content or the 
font-size is increased. This makes the site hard to use.

Rowan 

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[WSG] Apache DTD problem

2005-07-24 Thread Peter McCarthy 



Hi Group
 
Does anyone have any experiance with apache web server not displaying  
web pages with the xhtml strict DTD embedded ? My pages display fine on hosted 
apache webspace, but on my local apache server it wont display the page unless I 
take out the DTD declaration, It just displays a blank page with no error 
message. Is there a configuration setting I have missed somewhere ??? The DTD Im 
using is  

Thanks...Peter McCarthy

RE: [WSG] Understanding inheritance (well, trying to)

2005-07-24 Thread John Yip 
When the ID and the CLASS have the different value on the same
attribute, the ID always wins. However, you can use  to
achieve what you want.


Paragraph one
Paragraph two
Paragraph three


Hope that helps

John



Best Regards,
John Yip
Technical Manager
Nano Systems Pty Limited
226 Victoria Street
BEACONSFIELD, NSW 2015
Tel: +61 2 9341 3366
Fax: +61 2 9341 3377
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web-site: http://www.nanosystems.com.au
We are now providing web hosting, domain name registration and web design 
services. Please go to http://www.nanohosting.com.au/ for more details.


=
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The original e-mail was sent on July 25, 2005
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hope Stewart
Sent: Saturday, 23 July 2005 5:41 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] Understanding inheritance (well, trying to)

There's something about inheritance that I don't understand. Say in my
style
sheet I have:

body { color: black }
#content {}
#hilite p { color: red }

If I have three paragraphs in the div #hilite and I want the text of one
of
them to be black instead of red, I define this class for that paragraph:

normal { color: black }

But I find this doesn't work. For it to work, I have to define the class
with the div ID, like this:

#hilite .normal { color: black }

What is it about the laws of inheritance that means the class alone
won't
work??

Hope Stewart

**
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 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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[WSG] Ray Jalil/Casuarina/NTU is out of the office.

2005-07-24 Thread Ray . Jalil 
I will be out of the office starting  07/25/2005 and will not return until
08/02/2005.

For any web & multimedia related queries please contact Helen Rysavy
(7779).  For all AV Production queries please contact Dahlia Docherty
(6569).   Thanks.


**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] Ray Jalil/Casuarina/NTU is out of the office.

2005-07-24 Thread Ray . Jalil 
I will be out of the office starting  07/25/2005 and will not return until
08/02/2005.

For any web & multimedia related queries please contact Helen Rysavy
(7779).  For all AV Production queries please contact Dahlia Docherty
(6569).   Thanks.


**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

[WSG] Ray Jalil/Casuarina/NTU is out of the office.

2005-07-24 Thread Ray . Jalil 
I will be out of the office starting  07/25/2005 and will not return until
08/02/2005.

For any web & multimedia related queries please contact Helen Rysavy
(7779).  For all AV Production queries please contact Dahlia Docherty
(6569).   Thanks.


**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**

Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf

2005-07-24 Thread David Laakso 

Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) wrote:


Hi all,

I’ve just placed the first page of a new site on our test-drive server:

http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/Broadleaf/

Which is a redo of:

http://www.broadleaf.com.au/

There is also a mock up which shows how it is meant to look:

http://fueladvance.com/broadleaf/HomePagePreview.jpg

I have tested in IE6 and FF1.0.6PC and it seems to work fine. If a few 
of you could take a look in other browsers that’d be great.


Also, any design / coding suggestions would be greatly appreciated. J

Thanks,

Tatham Oddie

Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea

www.fueladvance.com 


Tatham,
22 captures at this 
URI
Font-zoom, among other things, will be a problem in any browser, at any 
screen resolution, until you let-go her go to do her own thing...
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much 
liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."

~ Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)
Regards,
David Laakso



--
David Laakso
http://www.dlaakso.com/


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RE: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf

2005-07-24 Thread Edward Clarke 








I suspect the 120Kb footprint of the background image
is of more concern to most visitors.

 





Edward Clarke

ECommerce and Software Consultant

 

TN38 Consulting

http://blog.tn38.net

 

Creative Media Centre

17-19
  Robertson Street

Hastings

East Sussex

TN34 1HL

United
  Kingdom











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matthew Vanderhorst
Sent: 24 July 2005 17:52
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Check:
Broadleaf



 

The design is very nice but the background image of the tree repeats.  It is not noticeable until the resolution goes beyond 1024x768.  There were some css validation errors as well (http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile="">).

Re: [WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf

2005-07-24 Thread Matthew Vanderhorst 




The design is very nice but the background image of the tree repeats. 
It is not noticeable until the resolution goes beyond 1024x768.  There
were some css validation errors as well
(http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile="">).

Matthew Vanderhorst


Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) wrote:

  
  
  

  
  
  Hi
all,
   
  I’ve
just placed the first page of a new site on our test-drive server:
   
  http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/Broadleaf/
   
  Which
is a redo of:
   
    http://www.broadleaf.com.au/
   
  There
is also a mock up which shows how it is meant to look:
   
  http://fueladvance.com/broadleaf/HomePagePreview.jpg
   
  I
have tested in IE6 and FF1.0.6PC and it seems to work fine. If a few of
you
could take a look in other browsers that’d be great.
   
  Also,
any design / coding suggestions would be greatly appreciated. J
   
   
   
  Thanks,
   
  Tatham Oddie
  Fuel
Advance - Ignite
Your Idea
  www.fueladvance.com
   
  
  

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.4/57 - Release Date: 7/22/2005

[WSG] Site Check: Broadleaf

2005-07-24 Thread Tatham Oddie \(Fuel Advance\) 








Hi
all,

 

I’ve
just placed the first page of a new site on our test-drive server:

 

http://testdrive.fueladvance.com/Broadleaf/

 

Which
is a redo of:

 

  http://www.broadleaf.com.au/

 

There
is also a mock up which shows how it is meant to look:

 

http://fueladvance.com/broadleaf/HomePagePreview.jpg

 

I
have tested in IE6 and FF1.0.6PC and it seems to work fine. If a few of you
could take a look in other browsers that’d be great.

 

Also,
any design / coding suggestions would be greatly appreciated. J

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Tatham Oddie

Fuel Advance - Ignite
Your Idea

www.fueladvance.com

 

[WSG] a centerlize and positioning css question for thumbnails

2005-07-24 Thread tee 

Not sure if I got the subject correct!

A friend from a Chinese list asked me this but I am unable to provide  
a good solution for him.


He has a row of thumbnails with different sizes with the following css

p  {  /* I know it's not semantic to name "p" here but I will tell  
him once I got an answer for him */

width: 100px;
height: 100px;
border: solid 1px #ccc; }

He wants all the thumbnail to be centerlised within the 100 pixel box  
however some images are bigger than the others, how can he achieve this?



thanks!

tee








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