Re: [WSG] running ie7 on my mac??

2008-01-24 Thread Matthew Pennell
On Jan 25, 2008 6:08 AM, kevin mcmonagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Whats my cheapest option for getting ie7 to run on my intel based mac.
> Is it basically an option between boot camp, parallels or virtual pc?
> Very frustrated with discrepancies at the moment.
>

Yes - Parallels, VMWare Fusion, or Boot Camp. I use Parallels and I love it
- you can run Windows as just another application on your desktop, and
switching from one OS to the other is as simple as moving the mouse into the
Windows window.

There is also ies4osx [1] but I was never able to get it to work properly.

[1] http://www.kronenberg.org/ies4osx/

-- 

- Matthew


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[WSG] running ie7 on my mac??

2008-01-24 Thread kevin mcmonagle

Hi,
Whats my cheapest option for getting ie7 to run on my intel based mac.
Is it basically an option between boot camp, parallels or virtual pc?
Very frustrated with discrepancies at the moment.

-best
kevin




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Re: [WSG] Compatibility and IE8

2008-01-24 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun

Ben Buchanan wrote:
Implementation specifics aside (yes I still think it's spam), the 
version target feature offers us a chance to lock our sites to the 
most convenient version of IE. MS has invited us to ignore their 
newer products. We can opt to save our energy for standards-based 
browsers and not bother learning new versions of IE. Lazy? Pragmatic?

 Mercenary?

Discuss?  :)  Surely this list has some opinions...


All of the above - depending on the situation at hand.

Being practical, it all comes down to what IE8 is worth - in any mode,
once it's released and thoroughly tested.

- IE6 and IE7 will need their workarounds for a few years, so it's
mostly "business as usual" on the IE/win front even after IE8' arrival.

- If IE8 can do without its own workarounds and isn't disturbed by any
workarounds for its predecessors, then triggering "IE8 mode" doesn't
cost anything. If not, then the "most solid" workarounds have to be
found and tested before seriously leaving the "IE7 forever mode" - if
that mode really works. The way the proposed switch works, we should be
able to relax and not bother looking for IE8 fixes until after IE9, or
IE10, is out - just to see how the browser is shaping up.

- If clients expect and/or demand triggering of a "beyond IE7 mode"
(which they probably won't), then they'll get it once any problems with
it are solved.


Bottom line: I don't like this new switch one bit, but I'm pretty
relaxed on the matter and will trigger a suitable "beyond IE7 mode" if
it serves any purpose - for me.

regards
Georg

--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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Re: [WSG] Compatibility and IE8

2008-01-24 Thread Al Sparber

From: "Ben Buchanan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

crikey, that's some list. thanks Russ.
On the issue... it's something MS simply won't back down on no matter what
any of us think. So we may as well figure out how to deal with it.



Discuss? :) Surely this list has some opinions...


It's all about numbers. There are too many users lingering with old Windows 
versions and old browsers. Many of them refuse to upgrade because of 
sentiments similar to those couched in this thread. That is, they either 
dislike or distrust Microsoft. That's a tough position to be in. Others are 
quasi-competent developers running huge intranets laced with proprietary IE 
features. The folks who use the intranet, use their same antiquated IE 
browsers to view the public Web. I think Chris Wilson is a brilliant fellow 
and I also believe the IE team can make a browser as compliant as anyone 
else. Perhaps it's time for Microsoft to take some risks and forcibly push 
new browser versions out. Perhaps a marketing campaign to educate 
"civilians" and done as well as Apple's "I'm a Mac" ads would get things 
rolling along.


In any event, I think that Microsoft has demonstrated a commitment to 
standards and it might be time to cut them some slack.


--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: "42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design"




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Re: [WSG] Compatibility and IE8

2008-01-24 Thread John Faulds

It's disturbing how well lemurs can illustrate the issue, too:
http://www.katemonkey.co.uk/article/48/x-ua-lemur-compatible (the Zeldman
lemur cracked me up completely)


That's awesome!

We can opt to save our energy for standards-based browsers and not  
bother learning new versions of IE. Lazy? Pragmatic? Mercenary?


As others have pointed out, if everyone decides to lock sites into IE7, MS  
have no incentive to continue down the road of web standards and may in  
fact, do the opposite and actively promote against it. That could have  
serious consequences, e.g.:


* MS does one thing and everyone else does another except worse than it is  
now where MS have at least been trying to come to the party,
* MS does its best to tell everyone that hasn't yet bought into web  
standards that web standards are holding back the web, that their way is  
better, and end up killing it (web standards).



--
Tyssen Design
http://www.tyssendesign.com.au
Ph: (07) 3300 3303
Mb: 0405 678 590


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Re: [WSG] Compatibility and IE8

2008-01-24 Thread dwain
code for standards compliant browsers and let ie fall where it may.
dwain

On 1/24/08, Ben Buchanan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> crikey, that's some list. thanks Russ.
>
>
> It's disturbing how well lemurs can illustrate the issue, too: 
> http://www.katemonkey.co.uk/article/48/x-ua-lemur-compatible
> (the Zeldman lemur cracked me up completely)
>
> On the issue... it's something MS simply won't back down on no matter what
> any of us think. So we may as well figure out how to deal with it.
>
> Standardistas can go for the "edge" option or they can let IE stagnate at
> IE7 or whatever version ends up being the easiest to develop
> for. Or they can seriously tag their documents according to tested documents.
>
>
> Implementation specifics aside (yes I still think it's spam), the version
> target feature offers us a chance to lock our sites to the most convenient
> version of IE. MS has invited us to ignore their newer products. We can opt
> to save our energy for standards-based browsers and not bother learning new
> versions of IE. Lazy? Pragmatic? Mercenary?
>
> Discuss? :) Surely this list has some opinions...
>
> cheers,
> Ben
>
> --
> --- 
> --- The future has arrived; it's just not
> --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson
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-- 
dwain alford
"The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression."  Kandinsky


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Re: [WSG] Compatibility and IE8

2008-01-24 Thread Ben Buchanan
crikey, that's some list. thanks Russ.


It's disturbing how well lemurs can illustrate the issue, too:
http://www.katemonkey.co.uk/article/48/x-ua-lemur-compatible (the Zeldman
lemur cracked me up completely)

On the issue... it's something MS simply won't back down on no matter what
any of us think. So we may as well figure out how to deal with it.

Standardistas can go for the "edge" option or they can let IE stagnate at
IE7 or whatever version ends up being the easiest to develop
for. Or they can seriously tag their documents according to tested documents.

Implementation specifics aside (yes I still think it's spam), the version
target feature offers us a chance to lock our sites to the most convenient
version of IE. MS has invited us to ignore their newer products. We can opt
to save our energy for standards-based browsers and not bother learning new
versions of IE. Lazy? Pragmatic? Mercenary?

Discuss? :) Surely this list has some opinions...

cheers,
Ben

-- 
--- 
--- The future has arrived; it's just not
--- evenly distributed. - William Gibson


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Re: [WSG] A Question of Semantics

2008-01-24 Thread Christian Snodgrass

Mordechai Peller wrote:

Christian Snodgrass wrote:
I have a small semantic problem that I can't make up my mind about. 
Basically, I have a list like this: "Something: blah blah; blah; 
blah". The "Something:" is a different font size, and kind of a 
header for the list. I can't decide if I should just do a paragraph 
with "Something" strong or in a span, or if I should do a header and 
then the text in a paragraph, with some CSS to make it look properly, 
or if I should make it some kind of definition or other list.
It sounds like a good candidate for a definition list, but without 
more details, I can't say for sure. Basically, the DD's should 
describe their DT's. That said, you can take the meaning of "describe" 
very loosely. A classic example from the specs is dialog.



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Specially, there are 4 sections: System Requirements, Issue, Cause, and 
Resolution (this is for a computer-related knowledge base). System 
Requirements is a semi-colon seperated list of system requirements (such 
as Operating System: Windows XP; Computer Brand: Dell), Issue, Cause, 
and Resolution are a block of text (sometimes multiple paragraphs) that 
describe and the problem and solution.


--

Christian Snodgrass
Azure Ronin Web Design
http://www.arwebdesign.net/ 
Phone: 859.816.7955



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Re: [WSG] A Question of Semantics

2008-01-24 Thread Mordechai Peller

Christian Snodgrass wrote:
I have a small semantic problem that I can't make up my mind about. 
Basically, I have a list like this: "Something: blah blah; blah; 
blah". The "Something:" is a different font size, and kind of a header 
for the list. I can't decide if I should just do a paragraph with 
"Something" strong or in a span, or if I should do a header and then 
the text in a paragraph, with some CSS to make it look properly, or if 
I should make it some kind of definition or other list.
It sounds like a good candidate for a definition list, but without more 
details, I can't say for sure. Basically, the DD's should describe their 
DT's. That said, you can take the meaning of "describe" very loosely. A 
classic example from the specs is dialog.



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RE: [WSG] A Question of Semantics

2008-01-24 Thread Elizabeth Spiegel
Hi Christian

Whether or not the 'Something' should be a heading depends on the content
and function of the list.  Quite often, the text preceding a list is a
lead-in sentence e.g.

While on leave I will:
- make curtains
- get daughter organised for school
- relax (hah!).

I would mark the lead-in as a para rather than a heading, the rest as items
in an unordered list.

Elizabeth
www.spiegelweb.com.au

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christian Snodgrass
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2008 3:07 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] A Question of Semantics

Hello,

I have a small semantic problem that I can't make up my mind about. 
Basically, I have a list like this: "Something: blah blah; blah; blah". 
The "Something:" is a different font size, and kind of a header for the
list. I can't decide if I should just do a paragraph with "Something" 
strong or in a span, or if I should do a header and then the text in a
paragraph, with some CSS to make it look properly, or if I should make it
some kind of definition or other list.

What do you think?

Thanks.
-- 

Christian Snodgrass
Azure Ronin Web Design
http://www.arwebdesign.net/ 
Phone: 859.816.7955



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Re: [WSG] A Question of Semantics

2008-01-24 Thread neal

> The "Something:" is a different font size, and kind of a header for the
> list. >

It seems you answered your own question
something should be a header (h.x tag)
look at the footer on sites like linkedin.com - very common approach

Neal
> Hello,
>
> I have a small semantic problem that I can't make up my mind about.
> Basically, I have a list like this: I can't decide if I should just do a
paragraph with "Something"
> strong or in a span, or if I should do a header and then the text in a
> paragraph, with some CSS to make it look properly, or if I should make
> it some kind of definition or other list.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Thanks.
> --
>
> Christian Snodgrass
> Azure Ronin Web Design
> http://www.arwebdesign.net/ 
> Phone: 859.816.7955
>
>
>
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>





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[WSG] A Question of Semantics

2008-01-24 Thread Christian Snodgrass

Hello,

I have a small semantic problem that I can't make up my mind about. 
Basically, I have a list like this: "Something: blah blah; blah; blah". 
The "Something:" is a different font size, and kind of a header for the 
list. I can't decide if I should just do a paragraph with "Something" 
strong or in a span, or if I should do a header and then the text in a 
paragraph, with some CSS to make it look properly, or if I should make 
it some kind of definition or other list.


What do you think?

Thanks.
--

Christian Snodgrass
Azure Ronin Web Design
http://www.arwebdesign.net/ 
Phone: 859.816.7955



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