[WSG] Web Standards Meetup London July Meeting

2008-07-14 Thread Joe Ortenzi

Morning Standardistas

I'd like to announce the next instalment in the Web Standards Meetup  
London July Meeting


For those of you living and working in London UK, please check out:
http://webstandards.meetup.com/130/calendar/8110079/
and hopefully come along for an evening of web chat and beer (or wine  
or juice)


This will be my penultimate event in London before I join the Sydney  
crew in September so it would be great to get as many of you as  
possible around. Thanks.



Joe Ortenzi
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.typingthevoid.com
www.joiz.com





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[WSG] Centered List

2008-07-14 Thread Tyrone Joseph
Hi,

 

This is my first post and I am fairly new to CSS. 

 

I'd like some help positioning a floated list. The image link is an
example of that the design should look like
(http://www.datadial.net/test/bb-example.gif ). 

The problem I am having is that I can float the list items to get them
to sit side by side but the list needs to be centred in the column. Some
products will have fewer size options (ie. I don't know the total
width). 

 

ol id=sizeList

  lia href=xs/a/li

  lia href=s/a/li

  lia href=m/a/li

  lia href=l/a/li

  lia href=xl/a/li

  lia href=2xl/a/li

  lia href=3xl/a/li

/ol

 

Any idea on how I should approach this would be welcome.

 

Thanks 

 

Tyrone



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Re: [WSG] Centered List

2008-07-14 Thread Sam Sherlock
have a look at
http://www.accessify.com/tools-and-wizards/developer-tools/list-o-matic/

I think your going to need to set the width of the ol (and the li inbetween)
set the margin of your ol to someing like

margin: 5px auto;

get firefox+firebug as it will allow you to test styles in firebug which you
can then move to the actual css

hth - S

2008/7/14 Tyrone Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  Hi,



 This is my first post and I am fairly new to CSS.



 I'd like some help positioning a floated list. The image link is an example
 of that the design should look like (
 http://www.datadial.net/test/bb-example.gif ).

 The problem I am having is that I can float the list items to get them to
 sit side by side but the list needs to be centred in the column. Some
 products will have fewer size options (ie. I don't know the total width).



 ol id=sizeList

   lia href=xs/a/li

   lia href=s/a/li

   lia href=m/a/li

   lia href=l/a/li

   lia href=xl/a/li

   lia href=2xl/a/li

   lia href=3xl/a/li

 /ol



 Any idea on how I should approach this would be welcome.



 Thanks



 Tyrone

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[WSG] [at]font-face confusion

2008-07-14 Thread Love Web Design
Hello, 
 
I wonder if anyone knows of or can advise on the following:
 
I have been asked by a client to embed a font on their website - this is a
custom made truetype font, also something I have not been asked to do
before.  
 
I have therefore took to my books/research to look it up but am coming
across conflicting information.  I am finding information on the internet
and in the books that says [at]font-face has been deprecated in css2.1 but
have found many references to web fonts for css3 using [at]font-face but
with reference to little or no browser support!
 
I wonder if anyone has come across this recently, has a working solution or
can advise or clarify?
 
Many thanks in advance, 
 
Sarah 
 


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Re: [WSG] [at]font-face confusion

2008-07-14 Thread Chris Wharton
Hi Sarah,

Try using SIFR, it uses flash to render the font and then degrades
nicely if end user does not have Flash plugin or javascript enabled.

http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/sifr/

Cheers Chris

-- 
Chris Wharton
www.cdwharton.com

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Love Web Design
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,

 I wonder if anyone knows of or can advise on the following:

 I have been asked by a client to embed a font on their website - this is a
 custom made truetype font, also something I have not been asked to do
 before.

 I have therefore took to my books/research to look it up but am coming
 across conflicting information.  I am finding information on the internet
 and in the books that says [at]font-face has been deprecated in css2.1 but
 have found many references to web fonts for css3 using [at]font-face but
 with reference to little or no browser support!

 I wonder if anyone has come across this recently, has a working solution or
 can advise or clarify?

 Many thanks in advance,

 Sarah

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Re: [WSG] [at]font-face confusion

2008-07-14 Thread David Dorward


On 14 Jul 2008, at 13:33, Love Web Design wrote:
I have been asked by a client to embed a font on their website -  
this is a custom made truetype font, also something I have not been  
asked to do before.


I have therefore took to my books/research to look it up but am  
coming across conflicting information.  I am finding information on  
the internet and in the books that says [at]font-face has been  
deprecated in css2.1 but have found many references to web fonts for  
css3 using [at]font-face but with reference to little or no browser  
support!


Brief history:

* Introduced in CSS 2
* Not well implemented
* Removed in CSS 2.1
* Push for it to appear in CSS 3

I believe that some support is there in Opera and Safari.


I wonder if anyone has come across this recently, has a working  
solution or can advise or clarify?


If it is body text, forget about it. If it is for small bits of text  
(headings and the like) then you might consider sFIR (search engines  
will tell you more).


--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/




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Re: [WSG] [at]font-face confusion

2008-07-14 Thread Michal Miksik
Maybe sIFR will help?

See documentation: http://wiki.novemberborn.net/sifr/

Michal




On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Love Web Design
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,

 I wonder if anyone knows of or can advise on the following:

 I have been asked by a client to embed a font on their website - this is a
 custom made truetype font, also something I have not been asked to do
 before.

 I have therefore took to my books/research to look it up but am coming
 across conflicting information.  I am finding information on the internet
 and in the books that says [at]font-face has been deprecated in css2.1 but
 have found many references to web fonts for css3 using [at]font-face but
 with reference to little or no browser support!

 I wonder if anyone has come across this recently, has a working solution or
 can advise or clarify?

 Many thanks in advance,

 Sarah

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Re: [WSG] [at]font-face confusion

2008-07-14 Thread Breton Slivka
The @font-face rule does appear in CSS 2.0, but not in 2.1. CSS 2.1 is
a revision of CSS 2.0 made in response to a lack of implementation of
certain features in CSS 2.0, so 2.1 closer resembles what is
implemented. (however still plenty in 2.1 that is not perfectly
implemented)

@font-face reappears in CSS3 as you point out.

In terms of browser support, Internet explorer has supported
@font-face since IE 5.5. However, only the proprietary .EOT font
format is supported. There is a free tool available on microsoft's
website for creating EOT files.  More information about this tool is
available here:
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/weft3/default.htm

Netscape version 6 (I think) supported @font-face, but support was
removed from mozilla by the time firefox rolled around, and has not
been added back to this day.

Safari has supported @font-face for truetype fonts since version 3.1.
This may encourage other browsers to follow suit, probably beginning
with opera (if they have not already done so), and eventually firefox.




On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 10:33 PM, Love Web Design
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,

 I wonder if anyone knows of or can advise on the following:

 I have been asked by a client to embed a font on their website - this is a
 custom made truetype font, also something I have not been asked to do
 before.

 I have therefore took to my books/research to look it up but am coming
 across conflicting information.  I am finding information on the internet
 and in the books that says [at]font-face has been deprecated in css2.1 but
 have found many references to web fonts for css3 using [at]font-face but
 with reference to little or no browser support!

 I wonder if anyone has come across this recently, has a working solution or
 can advise or clarify?

 Many thanks in advance,

 Sarah

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Re: [WSG] [at]font-face confusion

2008-07-14 Thread Breton Slivka
Sorry I gave some bad version numbers here. (I was pulling numbers out
my ass, memory is difficult)

embedded font support actually began in IE4, and netscape 4.

As I pointed out, it is not currently supported in firefox, (including
firefox 3)

However other typography solutions exist such as SIFR. (google it)


On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Breton Slivka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The @font-face rule does appear in CSS 2.0, but not in 2.1. CSS 2.1 is
 a revision of CSS 2.0 made in response to a lack of implementation of
 certain features in CSS 2.0, so 2.1 closer resembles what is
 implemented. (however still plenty in 2.1 that is not perfectly
 implemented)

 @font-face reappears in CSS3 as you point out.

 In terms of browser support, Internet explorer has supported
 @font-face since IE 5.5. However, only the proprietary .EOT font
 format is supported. There is a free tool available on microsoft's
 website for creating EOT files.  More information about this tool is
 available here:
 http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/weft3/default.htm

 Netscape version 6 (I think) supported @font-face, but support was
 removed from mozilla by the time firefox rolled around, and has not
 been added back to this day.

 Safari has supported @font-face for truetype fonts since version 3.1.
 This may encourage other browsers to follow suit, probably beginning
 with opera (if they have not already done so), and eventually firefox.




 On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 10:33 PM, Love Web Design
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,

 I wonder if anyone knows of or can advise on the following:

 I have been asked by a client to embed a font on their website - this is a
 custom made truetype font, also something I have not been asked to do
 before.

 I have therefore took to my books/research to look it up but am coming
 across conflicting information.  I am finding information on the internet
 and in the books that says [at]font-face has been deprecated in css2.1 but
 have found many references to web fonts for css3 using [at]font-face but
 with reference to little or no browser support!

 I wonder if anyone has come across this recently, has a working solution or
 can advise or clarify?

 Many thanks in advance,

 Sarah

 ***
 List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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 Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WSG] [at]font-face confusion

2008-07-14 Thread Andrew Cunningham
 
On Mon, July 14, 2008 10:56 pm, Breton Slivka wrote:


 Netscape version 6 (I think) supported @font-face, but support was
 removed from mozilla by the time firefox rolled around, and has not
 been added back to this day.


From memory Netscape used Bitstream's proprietary TrueDoc technology.

Other approaches from that period were server based solutions such as
GlyphGate.



-- 
Andrew Cunningham
Research and Development Coordinator
Vicnet
State Library of Victoria
Australia

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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[WSG] visibility problem in ie...z-index maybe?

2008-07-14 Thread kevin mcmonagle

hi,
im using negative margins to put a png half over the edge of a wrapper 
div.

Works good in ff, but breaks the layout in ie.
Is there anything i can do to get ie to display the
div like fire fox does or is this to tall an order for ie?
-best
kevin

http://pattersons.s34978.gridserver.com/indexnew1.html



heres the css of the div with the image:


#kitchenhead{ z-index:999;
width:200px;
height:100px;
margin-top:-35px;
padding-top:40px;
background-image:url(../images/kitchen.png);
background-position: 0 0;
overflow:visible;
background-repeat:no-repeat;
}

heres the css for the div that its going under at the moment:

#shellhead
{
background-image: url(../images/yellowtopshad.png);
background-repeat:repeat-x;
width:999px;
margin:0 auto;
padding-top:20px;
}




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RE: [WSG] Centered List

2008-07-14 Thread Tyrone Joseph
Thanks for your reply but this doesn't solve my problem as the size list will 
be controlled by a CMS. This means that there may be times when there are 7 
options and there may be times when are 3 options.

 

I somehow need to center the li elements without affecting other textual 
content within the containing div. I am trying by best to keep the HTML clean 
and I don't want to add any unnecessary divs within the main div.

 

  div id=content

  

p class=confirmKnee length Puff Ball has been added to your basket! a 
href=View Basket/a/p

  div id=productDetails

h2Knee Length Puff Ball br /

  £320.00em Now £290.00/em/h2

pPraesent in odio. Curabitur quam turpis, placerat sit amet, elementum 
ut, molestie 

  at, velit. Quisque ultrices odio pellentesque erat. Sed sit amet purus eu 
leo lacinia 

  ultrices. Vivamus lectus magna, imperdiet non, interdum tempus, dapibus 
vel, quam. 

  Aliquam ut massa. Fusce rhoncus iaculis metus. Donec sollicitudin justo 
pharetra ligula. /p

  

h3Choose your size:/h3

ol id=sizeList

  lia href=xs/a/li

  lia href=s/a/li

  lia href=m/a/li

  lia href=l/a/li

  lia href=xl/a/li

  lia href=2xl/a/li

  lia href=3xl/a/li

/ol

p

  input type=submit class=button title=add to basket name=add to 
basket /

/p

p Has your size sold out? a href=Find out when it will be back in 
stock./a br /

  Not sure what to choose? a href=See our size chart./a br /

  Know someone who would love this? a href=Email to a friend./a br /

  Or are you after someone else? a href=See more Littel Black 
Dresses./a /p

  /div 

 

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Sherlock
Sent: 14 July 2008 13:07
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Centered List

 

have a look at 
http://www.accessify.com/tools-and-wizards/developer-tools/list-o-matic/

I think your going to need to set the width of the ol (and the li inbetween) 
set the margin of your ol to someing like

margin: 5px auto;

get firefox+firebug as it will allow you to test styles in firebug which you 
can then move to the actual css

hth - S

2008/7/14 Tyrone Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

Hi,

 

This is my first post and I am fairly new to CSS. 

 

I'd like some help positioning a floated list. The image link is an example of 
that the design should look like (http://www.datadial.net/test/bb-example.gif 
). 

The problem I am having is that I can float the list items to get them to sit 
side by side but the list needs to be centred in the column. Some products will 
have fewer size options (ie. I don't know the total width). 

 

ol id=sizeList

  lia href=xs/a/li

  lia href=s/a/li

  lia href=m/a/li

  lia href=l/a/li

  lia href=xl/a/li

  lia href=2xl/a/li

  lia href=3xl/a/li

/ol

 

Any idea on how I should approach this would be welcome.

 

Thanks 

 

Tyrone


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Re: [WSG] visibility problem in ie...z-index maybe?

2008-07-14 Thread David Owens
2008/7/14 kevin mcmonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 hi,
 im using negative margins to put a png half over the edge of a wrapper
 div.
 Works good in ff, but breaks the layout in ie.
 Is there anything i can do to get ie to display the
 div like fire fox does or is this to tall an order for ie?
 -best
 kevin

 http://pattersons.s34978.gridserver.com/indexnew1.html

 #kitchenhead{ z-index:999;
 width:200px;
 height:100px;
 margin-top:-35px;
 padding-top:40px;
 background-image:url(../images/kitchen.png);
 background-position: 0 0;
 overflow:visible;
 background-repeat:no-repeat;
 }

 heres the css for the div that its going under at the moment:

 #shellhead
 {
 background-image: url(../images/yellowtopshad.png);
 background-repeat:repeat-x;
 width:999px;
 margin:0 auto;
 padding-top:20px;
 }



Hi Kevin,

You might be better off using

position: relative;
top: -35px;

instead of the negative margin

I've only tested it in FF and IE7, but can see any reason why it
wouldn't work in older versions of IE as well..

David


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[WSG] [at]font-face confusion

2008-07-14 Thread Love Web Design
Thank you to everyone

You have helped a lot, I have spent the afternoon finding a solution which I
shall now implement - with luck :)

Sarah




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Re: [WSG] visibility problem in ie...z-index maybe?

2008-07-14 Thread kevin mcmonagle

Thanks David,
That works well in ie 6  7.
I only had to add a negative margin in a conditional
comment to the div that was getting pushed up.
-best
kevin





David Owens wrote:



Hi Kevin,

You might be better off using

position: relative;
top: -35px;

instead of the negative margin
  





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Re: [WSG] Centered List

2008-07-14 Thread David Owens
2008/7/14 Tyrone Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Thanks for your reply but this doesn't solve my problem as the size list
 will be controlled by a CMS. This means that there may be times when there
 are 7 options and there may be times when are 3 options.



 I somehow need to center the li elements without affecting other textual
 content within the containing div. I am trying by best to keep the HTML
 clean and I don't want to add any unnecessary divs within the main div.


Hi Tyrone,

I've been playing around for this, and have a pretty good looking
solution for you.

ul
lia href=#one/a/li
li
two
a href=#sold out/a
/li
lia href=#three/a/li
/ul

ul {
margin: 0;
text-align: center;
}

li {
display: inline-block;
border: 1px solid black;
padding: 5px;
margin: 5px;
vertical-align: top;
}

a {
display: block;
}

Plus you will need to send this to IE, preferably using conditional comments:

li {
zoom: 1;
display: inline;
}

Works in FF, IE 5.5, 6 and 7, Opera 9.5 and Safari 3 on PC. I haven't
looked at anything on a Mac yet.

Regards
David

http://fineartdavid.com


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[WSG] input type image

2008-07-14 Thread Taco Fleur
I have a question in regards to styling a submit button.

I have the following HTML
input name=doSearch type=image id=btnGo value=GO
src=/certainedge/_resource/generic/image/btn_go.jpg alt=GO

Please note: I'm more than happy for the HTML markup to change, to
achieve the desired effect.

Following is the CSS I used, which I hoped would change the image, but
it doesn't.

input#btnGo {
background: url(/proximer/_resource/generic/image/btn_go.jpg)!important
top left no-repeat;
}

Would it be acceptable to just use a input of type submit and leave
the value empty?
input name=btnGo type=submit id=btnGo

-- 
Kind regards,
Taco Fleur
clickfind™ - The new Australian Online Marketing Platform (OMP)
http://www.clickfind.com.au


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Re: [WSG] input type image

2008-07-14 Thread Chris Knowles

Taco Fleur wrote:

I have a question in regards to styling a submit button.

I have the following HTML
input name=doSearch type=image id=btnGo value=GO
src=/certainedge/_resource/generic/image/btn_go.jpg alt=GO


 Would it be acceptable to just use a input of type submit and leave
 the value empty?

you could use:

button type='submitspanSubmit/span/button

then shift the span off the page and style the button with a sprite - 
this gets around having an empty value


--
Chris Knowles


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Re: [WSG] input type image

2008-07-14 Thread Patrick H. Lauke

Taco Fleur wrote:

I have a question in regards to styling a submit button.

I have the following HTML
input name=doSearch type=image id=btnGo value=GO
src=/certainedge/_resource/generic/image/btn_go.jpg alt=GO



Following is the CSS I used, which I hoped would change the image, but
it doesn't.

input#btnGo {
background: url(/proximer/_resource/generic/image/btn_go.jpg)!important
top left no-repeat;
}


It probably works, but the background image is neatly covered by the 
actual image of the button itself.



Would it be acceptable to just use a input of type submit and leave
the value empty?
input name=btnGo type=submit id=btnGo


Not really, as the value in the case of these buttons is the actual 
label (that would, for instance, be read out by screen readers).


What are you actually trying to achieve?

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: [WSG] input type image

2008-07-14 Thread Taco Fleur
That looks like it did the trick, had to pull the button up a bit with
position: relative;
top: -3px;
I'm not sure why.

Anyways, I ended up with

button#btnGo {
background: url(/proximer/_resource/generic/image/btn_go.jpg) top
left no-repeat;
border: none;
width: 26px;
height: 20px;
cursor: pointer;
position: relative;
top: -3px;
}
button#btnGo span {
position: relative;
left: -3000px;
}

Cheers

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Chris Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Taco Fleur wrote:

 I have a question in regards to styling a submit button.

 I have the following HTML
 input name=doSearch type=image id=btnGo value=GO
 src=/certainedge/_resource/generic/image/btn_go.jpg alt=GO

 Would it be acceptable to just use a input of type submit and leave
 the value empty?

 you could use:

 button type='submitspanSubmit/span/button

 then shift the span off the page and style the button with a sprite - this
 gets around having an empty value

 --
 Chris Knowles


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-- 
Kind regards,
Taco Fleur
clickfind™ - The new Australian Online Marketing Platform (OMP)
http://www.clickfind.com.au


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Re: [WSG] input type image

2008-07-14 Thread Sam Sherlock
chris's suggestion looks simluar to particletree's rediscovered button
element

 button type='submitspanSubmit/span/button



http://particletree.com/features/rediscovering-the-button-element/

2008/7/15 Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Taco Fleur wrote:

 I have a question in regards to styling a submit button.

 I have the following HTML
 input name=doSearch type=image id=btnGo value=GO
 src=/certainedge/_resource/generic/image/btn_go.jpg alt=GO


  Following is the CSS I used, which I hoped would change the image, but
 it doesn't.

 input#btnGo {
background:
 url(/proximer/_resource/generic/image/btn_go.jpg)!important
 top left no-repeat;
 }


 It probably works, but the background image is neatly covered by the
 actual image of the button itself.

  Would it be acceptable to just use a input of type submit and leave
 the value empty?
 input name=btnGo type=submit id=btnGo


 Not really, as the value in the case of these buttons is the actual label
 (that would, for instance, be read out by screen readers).

 What are you actually trying to achieve?

 P
 --
 Patrick H. Lauke
 __
 re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
 [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
 www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
 http://redux.deviantart.com
 __
 Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
 http://webstandards.org/
 __



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Re: [WSG] [at]font-face confusion

2008-07-14 Thread David Hucklesby
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:27:18 +0100, Love Web Design wrote:
 Thank you to everyone

 You have helped a lot, I have spent the afternoon finding a solution which I 
 shall now
 implement - with luck :)


If it works out, can you please share?

Cordially,
David
--



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[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest

2008-07-14 Thread Ben Le Jeune
Thanks for your email. I'm out of the office today and will get back to you on 
my return tomorrow. If your enquiry is urgent you can contact the main office: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], tel: 0161 234 2955.

_
Ben Le Jeune
Marketing Services Manager
Arts About Manchester

T: 0161 234 2963
F: 0161 234 2966
W: www.aam.org.uk 




This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - 
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RE: [WSG] [at]font-face confusion

2008-07-14 Thread Love Web Design
Hi David, 

I most certainly will, but obviously would like to try it/test it first :)

Best for now, Sarah



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Hucklesby
Sent: 15 July 2008 02:14
To: Love Web Design
Subject: Re: [WSG] [at]font-face confusion

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:27:18 +0100, Love Web Design wrote:
 Thank you to everyone

 You have helped a lot, I have spent the afternoon finding a solution 
 which I shall now implement - with luck :)


If it works out, can you please share?

Cordially,
David
--



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