Re: [WSG] Accessibility - Scanning PDFs
On Wed, 2008-10-29 at 16:32 +1100, Rae Buerckner wrote: PDF is an ISO standard and has been for some months, snip / Whoops missed that bit of news - thanks for the update *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessibility - Scanning PDFs
I don't think a pdf (or any other format) containing only images would have much chance of being accessible as such. ...does anyone have any recommendations for good OCR tools? How is scanning to PDF normally done in places that use PDF a lot for scanned documents (eg government sites) Is OCR commonly used? (if so what and how?) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please - versions
Brett Patterson skrev: I am sorry, but I must ask. Are you saying that the term JavaScript is owned by Sun? Or just the Java part? And, yes, JavaScript is implemented in Internet Explorer. I see that your question has already been answered. I will give some additional points. Mocha was Brendan Eich's internal name during initial development at Netscape. It was renamed LiveScript by him and his fellow enginers, but changed to JavaScript by the *marketing* department. JScript in MSIE 6 and 7 is *roughly* comparable to JavaScript 1.2 and to ECMAScript 3.0. There is a document, produced by MS, that in very high detail outlines how JScript, and other browsers JS engines, differs from the spec. It is available at https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript The JavaScript support in Safari, Google Chrome and Opera is *roughly* comparable to JavaScript 1.5, and some parts of JavaScript 1.6. (Note: 99 % of the time when one curses the differences between browsers, it is not because of their deviations from each other in Java/J/EcmaScript, but how they differ from each other on the DOM.) Mozilla is allowed by the ECMAScript spec to develop JavaScript as a superset to ECMAScript, and indeed they have. JavaScript 1.8 contains quite a few features that (probably) will not even make it into ECMAScript 3.1 (generators, iterators, let-blocks - personally I really like let blocks!). A few years ago Netscape proposed a JavaScript 2.0 version. Many features from that proposal has made it into ActionScript and into JScript.NET (used on the server). ECMAScript 4.0 that was being worked upon altered from the original JS 2.0 proposal in some ways. That work has however been halted. One group, led by Mozilla and Adobe, wanted to *add* to ECMAScript in radical ways. One group, led by MS and Yahoo (Doug Crockford), wanted primarily a *subset*, getting rid of the bad parts. They soon added features, though, and the language was in essence forked. A compromise has been reached. ECMAScript Harmony will most probably be released as version 4, but not for a couple of years. And it will differ from the ES 4 proposal as stood in June. It is the intention of the EcmaScript working group to release ES 3.1 next year, at which time they hope to have two interoperable and complete implementations. One will most probably be SpiderMonkey (Mozilla) and the other might be V8. The new ES 4, i.e. Harmony, will probably not see the light of day until 2010 or 2011. Lars Gunther *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please - object methods are properties
Keryx Web skrev: JavaScript has no pure hash-tables, aka associative arrays. Object properties can be used to emulate associative arrays, though. A PHP programmer will feel very limited, though. A JavaScript object *is* not an array ... It can have methods as well as properties. geekspeak Nitpicking on myself. JavaScript makes no real distinction between a property value that is a function (and therefore becomes an object method) and property values that simply store a simple type. i.e. a method *is* a property, that stores a function, which is possible since they are first class objects. /geekspeak Lars Gunther *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Javascript classical inheritence [was: JavaScript clarification please]
Mathew Robertson skrev: All this talk over JavaScript not supporting classes, is incorrect. I put together a little demo of classical class-based inheritence. The only real limitation is that you can't do protected members and friends and the syntax might be considered to be a little clunky. http://members.optusnet.com.au/~mathew/js/ Liorean has already provided clarification on the difference between supporting class-based inheritance through emulation, vz. having native support. I would like to point out that John Resig writes about this topic in hos book Pro JavaScript Techniques, and that it is implemented in one form or another in many libraries. There was also an effort to support the now canceled ECMAScript 4 syntax in older browsers, Mascara, that included support for classes. http://ecmascript4.com/ I suppose its status is uncertain. In short, as MR shows: If you feel intimidated by prototypal inheritance, there are tools available to make JavaScript behave in a fashion that is more suited to your tastes. :-) Lars Gunther *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS invisible to IE
There are conditional CSS HTML codes that can apply to FF. If you want to
use them, you can try:
!--[if N]!--link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=the
location.css /!--![endif]--
If the above does not work, try adding an additional N in !--[if N]!--,
as in !--[if NN]!--.
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 12:29 AM, Luke Hoggett [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Hi,
This list isn't really a help desk. For such things Google is your friend.
Anyway, there are various methods/hacks available. My preference is to use
child selectors
eg
#container .something {
/* this will be used in ie6 */
}
#container .something {
/* this will be used in firefox and ie7 and safari etc*/
}
the order is important
if you want ONLY FF to have the rule applied (I cannot imagine why) try
using some of the -moz attributes that may be applicable
Regards
L
Fuji kusaka wrote:
Is there any way to code css (not conditional inline css), so that the CSS
apply online to FF?
--
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Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please - versions
I like that explanation. I get it now. Thanks. One more quick question though, what is a let-block, in general? Thanks. That really does make it a lot easier to understand. Brett On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 6:04 AM, Keryx Web [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brett Patterson skrev: I am sorry, but I must ask. Are you saying that the term JavaScript is owned by Sun? Or just the Java part? And, yes, JavaScript is implemented in Internet Explorer. I see that your question has already been answered. I will give some additional points. Mocha was Brendan Eich's internal name during initial development at Netscape. It was renamed LiveScript by him and his fellow enginers, but changed to JavaScript by the *marketing* department. JScript in MSIE 6 and 7 is *roughly* comparable to JavaScript 1.2 and to ECMAScript 3.0. There is a document, produced by MS, that in very high detail outlines how JScript, and other browsers JS engines, differs from the spec. It is available at https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript The JavaScript support in Safari, Google Chrome and Opera is *roughly* comparable to JavaScript 1.5, and some parts of JavaScript 1.6. (Note: 99 % of the time when one curses the differences between browsers, it is not because of their deviations from each other in Java/J/EcmaScript, but how they differ from each other on the DOM.) Mozilla is allowed by the ECMAScript spec to develop JavaScript as a superset to ECMAScript, and indeed they have. JavaScript 1.8 contains quite a few features that (probably) will not even make it into ECMAScript 3.1 (generators, iterators, let-blocks - personally I really like let blocks!). A few years ago Netscape proposed a JavaScript 2.0 version. Many features from that proposal has made it into ActionScript and into JScript.NET (used on the server). ECMAScript 4.0 that was being worked upon altered from the original JS 2.0 proposal in some ways. That work has however been halted. One group, led by Mozilla and Adobe, wanted to *add* to ECMAScript in radical ways. One group, led by MS and Yahoo (Doug Crockford), wanted primarily a *subset*, getting rid of the bad parts. They soon added features, though, and the language was in essence forked. A compromise has been reached. ECMAScript Harmony will most probably be released as version 4, but not for a couple of years. And it will differ from the ES 4 proposal as stood in June. It is the intention of the EcmaScript working group to release ES 3.1 next year, at which time they hope to have two interoperable and complete implementations. One will most probably be SpiderMonkey (Mozilla) and the other might be V8. The new ES 4, i.e. Harmony, will probably not see the light of day until 2010 or 2011. Lars Gunther *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS invisible to IE
Here is an article about hacks for Fx, Opera and IE:
http://www.nealgrosskopf.com/tech/thread.asp?pid=20
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 12:41 PM, Brett Patterson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There are conditional CSS HTML codes that can apply to FF. If you want to
use them, you can try:
!--[if N]!--link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=the
location.css /!--![endif]--
If the above does not work, try adding an additional N in !--[if N]!--,
as in !--[if NN]!--.
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 12:29 AM, Luke Hoggett [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Hi,
This list isn't really a help desk. For such things Google is your friend.
Anyway, there are various methods/hacks available. My preference is to
use child selectors
eg
#container .something {
/* this will be used in ie6 */
}
#container .something {
/* this will be used in firefox and ie7 and safari etc*/
}
the order is important
if you want ONLY FF to have the rule applied (I cannot imagine why) try
using some of the -moz attributes that may be applicable
Regards
L
Fuji kusaka wrote:
Is there any way to code css (not conditional inline css), so that the CSS
apply online to FF?
--
Fuji kusaka
***
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Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please - let blocks
Brett Patterson skrev:
I like that explanation. I get it now. Thanks. One more quick question
though, what is a let-block, in general? Thanks. That really does make
it a lot easier to understand.
Brett
Normally JavaScript does not have block scope.
var foo = 1;
{
foo = 2;
}
alert(foo); // will give you 2
Let-blocks will provide block-scope on an opt in basis:
var foo = 1;
{
let foo = 2;
alert(foo); // 2
let bar = 3;
}
alert(foo); // 1
alert(bar); // undefined
Block scope is one feature that makes it easy to write interoperable
code. My variables won't mess with your variables. Today we use function
scope to accomplish the same thing:
var foo = 1;
(function() {
var foo = 2;
alert(foo); // 2
})() // last parenthesis invokes anonymous function
alert(foo); // 1
Let blocks are really handy in for loops:
var i = Hi there;
for ( let i = 0; i 10; i++) {
alert(i); // 0 - 9
}
alert(i); // Hi there
Self executing functions have another kind of power through closures and
possible return values, so the two do not completely overlap.
More info on the New in JavaScript 1.7 article on MDC.
Lars Gunther
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Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please - let blocks
OK. Thanks
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Keryx Web [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Brett Patterson skrev:
I like that explanation. I get it now. Thanks. One more quick question
though, what is a let-block, in general? Thanks. That really does make it a
lot easier to understand.
Brett
Normally JavaScript does not have block scope.
var foo = 1;
{
foo = 2;
}
alert(foo); // will give you 2
Let-blocks will provide block-scope on an opt in basis:
var foo = 1;
{
let foo = 2;
alert(foo); // 2
let bar = 3;
}
alert(foo); // 1
alert(bar); // undefined
Block scope is one feature that makes it easy to write interoperable code.
My variables won't mess with your variables. Today we use function scope to
accomplish the same thing:
var foo = 1;
(function() {
var foo = 2;
alert(foo); // 2
})() // last parenthesis invokes anonymous function
alert(foo); // 1
Let blocks are really handy in for loops:
var i = Hi there;
for ( let i = 0; i 10; i++) {
alert(i); // 0 - 9
}
alert(i); // Hi there
Self executing functions have another kind of power through closures and
possible return values, so the two do not completely overlap.
More info on the New in JavaScript 1.7 article on MDC.
Lars Gunther
***
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Re: [WSG] Accessibility - Scanning PDFs
I don't think a pdf (or any other format) containing only images would have much chance of being accessible as such. ...does anyone have any recommendations for good OCR tools? How is scanning to PDF normally done in places that use PDF a lot for scanned documents (eg government sites) Is OCR commonly used? (if so what and how?) Eeak 20,000 documents scanned using OCR. Sounds like you have a big problem on you hands. If you go down this route I'd suggest trying to locate a bureau and contract the work to them. This is what some government sites have done. The advantage of this is they have the expertise and applications to automate the process. Without totally subverting the original question, how much work has the organisation done on the content management strategy? If this was something I was working I would be trying to reduce the scale of the problem by first reducing the number of documents that needed to be converted. So a couple of questions to get you going. Have there been any recent reviews of the content? Does anyone in your organisation know answer to the following: - Are there actually 20,000 documents? I’ve been involved in a number of content migration over the years and I’m constantly surprised by organisation going on about their massive web sites but when you clear the hype and the fluff away it turns out be much smaller then first thought. - Are there any documents which are duplicates, redundant, or ready to be archived? You might find you could knock out a sizable chunk of the PDF even before you start a conversion. - Have you got usage figures, are you about to embark on a mass conversion project for documents that are actually not really used? Even if everything has to be converted with this type of info you could at least prioritise high usage documents. - Along the same lines have the documents be assessed for business value? Again why convert document which have no value to the user or the business. - Have you thought of using “a conversation on demand” strategy? I know this is not a great accessibility solution but you could convert the PDF to an accessible form when a user request access. Sort of spreading the pain over a number of years. - Have you looked at workflow that created the document and why they have to be PDF? I’m wondering if the documents were originally in some other electronic format perhaps you could try re-versioning at the source. Sorry about the easy... Andrew _ Catch up on all the latest celebrity gossip http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454061/direct/01/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] mxing value units
Hi,
I'm just wonder if there are any repercussions in mixing value units for
short-handed properties?
i.e.
padding: 1em 0px 1em 20px;
or
background:url('bg.gif') 100% 25px no-repeat;
or
background:url('bg.gif') right 25px no-repeat;
or
background:url('bg.gif') 50% bottom no-repeat;
...
etc.
I vaguely remember reading somewhere that older browsers have trouble
rendering this. Modern IE6, IE7, FF seem to handle it alright.
Thanks!
ben
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RE: [WSG] Accessibility - Scanning PDFs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Hi Michael Apart from Andrew's very good suggestions, here's some info on OCRing. * Does anyone have any recommendations for good OCR tools? The full version of Acrobat does a reasonable to very good job of OCRing images, it really depends on how clean the image is. Adobe claims that Acrobat can recognise signatures and images and leave them as images, but convert everything else to text. I haven't really fully tested this claim, but I've OCRed text with hand written comments with mixed results, e.g. the text is OK, but the hand-written stuff may come out as scrambled text or images. I am recommending Acrobat since you are already working with PDFs. If I remember correctly you need Acrobat v6 or above to OCR. Otherwise, Omnipage (I believe) is still the industry standard. http://www.nuance.com/omnipage/ * Is OCR commonly used? (if so what and how?) I have done enough OCRing over the years, but not on a regular basis, so this is only my opinion, people who OCR for a living, may have other ideas. I believe you should only OCR, if a digital document is no available. Otherwise you waste a lot of time checking/proofreading the OCRed text to make sure that the OCR has worked correctly, i.e. misspellings or dropping out word/s, are the main culprits. We OCR in my workplace mainly for archival purposes, and the reason for OCRing is because the original documents (usually books, anywhere from 200-700 pages long) are pre-computer age and so only available as a hardcopy (if we are lucky). We may also OCR because we want to update these pre-computer age documents. I hope this mostly makes sense, otherwise feel free to contact me. Brigitte Graphic Designer From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew R Sent: Thursday, 30 October 2008 9:50 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessibility - Scanning PDFs I don't think a pdf (or any other format) containing only images would have much chance of being accessible as such. ...does anyone have any recommendations for good OCR tools? How is scanning to PDF normally done in places that use PDF a lot for scanned documents (eg government sites) Is OCR commonly used? (if so what and how?) Eeak 20,000 documents scanned using OCR. Sounds like you have a big problem on you hands. If you go down this route I'd suggest trying to locate a bureau and contract the work to them. This is what some government sites have done. The advantage of this is they have the expertise and applications to automate the process. Without totally subverting the original question, how much work has the organisation done on the content management strategy? If this was something I was working I would be trying to reduce the scale of the problem by first reducing the number of documents that needed to be converted. So a couple of questions to get you going. Have there been any recent reviews of the content? Does anyone in your organisation know answer to the following: - Are there actually 20,000 documents? I've been involved in a number of content migration over the years and I'm constantly surprised by organisation going on about their massive web sites but when you clear the hype and the fluff away it turns out be much smaller then first thought. - Are there any documents which are duplicates, redundant, or ready to be archived? You might find you could knock out a sizable chunk of the PDF even before you start a conversion. - Have you got usage figures, are you about to embark on a mass conversion project for documents that are actually not really used? Even if everything has to be converted with this type of info you could at least prioritise high usage documents. - Along the same lines have the documents be assessed for business value? Again why convert document which have no value to the user or the business. - Have you thought of using a conversation on demand strategy? I know this is not a great accessibility solution but you could convert the PDF to an accessible form when a user request access. Sort of spreading the pain over a number of years. - Have you looked at workflow that created the document and why they have to be PDF? I'm wondering if the documents were originally in some other electronic format perhaps you could try re-versioning at the source. Sorry about the easy... Andrew Click here for FREE customisable desktop wallpapers. Get them Now! http://wallpapers.msn.com/?ocid=[B001MSN42A0716B] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by
[WSG] Accessible date picker widget
Hi all, I'm looking for an accessible widget that lets you select a date. It should be lightweight (or compressible), not depend on frameworks and allow for keyboard use / screenreaders. The ones I've found so far couldn't take all hurdles. Thank you! Cheers, Jens The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying files is or may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail or any attached files is unauthorised. This e-mail is subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written consent of the copyright owner. If you have received this e-mail in error please advise the sender immediately by return e-mail or telephone and delete all copies. Fairfax does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained in this e-mail or attached files. Internet communications are not secure, therefore Fairfax does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message or attached files. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] PHP DEVELOPER SYDNEY NEEDED!
Hi All, I'm looking for a PHP developer to do some work on a number of site (Sydney). If you are looking for work please let me know [EMAIL PROTECTED] Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, -Lev *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHP DEVELOPER SYDNEY NEEDED! - ADMIN
ADMIN Please reply to Levell off-list as this is off-topic Thanks Russ on 30/10/08 2:39 PM, Levell Rampono at wrote: Hi All, I¹m looking for a PHP developer to do some work on a number of site (Sydney). If you are looking for work please let me know [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, -Lev *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
