[WSG] Out of office Re: WSG Digest
Thanks for emailing me. I'm largely out the office Friday, Monday, and Tuesday (27-31 August). Please phone me on +64 21 42 12 08 if urgent, otherwise your patience is appreciated while my access to email is limited. Cheers, Sigurd -- Sigurd Magnusson Business Relationship Manager SilverStripe DDI: +64 4 978 7332 Mobile: +64 21 42 12 08 Skype: sigurdmagnusson twitter.com/SigurdMagnusson www.silverstripe.com -- Like what we do? Nominate us for NZ and global open source awards at www.nzosa.org.nz and www.packtpub.com/open-source-awards-home/nominate-best-open-source-cms -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] longdesc use case examples in the wild
Hello Everyone, The W3C HTML 5 Working Group Chairs have decided to drop the longdesc attribute from the HTML specification after a poll on the issue [1] [2]. The Chairs' Decision states that: QUOTE This issue can be reopened if new information comes up. Examples of possible relevant new information include: * use cases that specifically require longdesc, * evidence that correct usage is growing rapidly and that that growth is expected to continue, or * widespread interoperable implementation. UNQUOTE I have been collecting examples of Longdesc Examples in the Wild. [3] Any examples or input would be appreciated. Thanks, Laura [1] HTML5 Working Group Decision on ISSUE-30 longdesc By Sam Ruby, Maciej Stachowiak, and Paul Cotton http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Aug/att-0112/issue-30-decision.html [2] ISSUE-30: include a longdesc attribute for images - Straw Poll for Objections http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-30-objection-poll/results [3] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/LongdescRetention#Examples_with_No_Visual_Link_Text_Clutter Related References: Notice of Impending Formal Objection to HTML5 Issue 30 Decision (@longdesc) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Aug/0027.html Longdesc is Dead! Long Live Longdesc! http://www.cfit.ie/news-and-commentary-archive/525-longdesc-rip Strategic Decisions in a Strategy-less Environment http://burningbird.net/node/118 Podcast #83: Fate of Longdesc in HTML5 http://webaxe.blogspot.com/2010/08/podcast-83-fate-of-longdesc-in-html5.html Alone in the Pitch Black Dark http://www.cssquirrel.com/2010/08/16/comic-update-alone-in-the-pitch-black-dark/ No longdesc Attribute in HTML5 http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/201008/no_longdesc_attribute_in_html5/ How do we save longdesc? http://rebuildingtheweb.com/en/how-do-we-save-longdesc/ -- Laura L. Carlson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] html5 issue
In an attempt to begin using HTML5, I am getting this error: Line 12, Column 21: A charset attribute on a meta element found after the first 512 bytes. meta charset=UTF-8/ Can anyone tell me why? -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] html5 issue
/ is not necessary to close the meta tag. meta charset=utf-8 Maybe this solve the problem. Gregorio Espadas gespadas.com @gespadas On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote: In an attempt to begin using HTML5, I am getting this error: Line 12, Column 21: A charset attribute on a meta element found after the first 512 bytes. meta charset=UTF-8/ Can anyone tell me why? -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] html5 issue
On 27 Aug 2010, at 19:30, Tom Livingston wrote: Line 12, Column 21: A charset attribute on a meta element found after the first 512 bytes. Can anyone tell me why? You have too much content before the meta tag. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] html5 issue
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Gregorio Espadas gespa...@gmail.com wrote: / is not necessary to close the meta tag. meta charset=utf-8 Maybe this solve the problem. Gregorio Espadas gespadas.com @gespadas No luck there, but thanks. Here's the head to my page: !DOCTYPE html html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; head meta charset=utf-8 titleTitle/title meta name=keywords content= / meta name=description content= / link rel=shortcut icon href=../favicon.ico type=image/x-icon / link rel=icon href=../favicon.ico type=image/x-icon / !--- STYLES --- link rel=stylesheet href=../includes/style.css media=screen, projection, print / /head Any help would be appreciated. Can't post a link at this time... -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] html5 issue
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 3:11 PM, David Dorward da...@dorward.me.uk wrote: On 27 Aug 2010, at 19:30, Tom Livingston wrote: Line 12, Column 21: A charset attribute on a meta element found after the first 512 bytes. Can anyone tell me why? You have too much content before the meta tag. That was it. I was using Paul Irish's trick with conditional comments to feed IE's CSS w/o conditionals with this: !--[if lt IE 7 ] html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; id=ie6 ![endif]-- !--[if IE 7 ]html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; id=ie7 ![endif]-- !--[if IE 8 ]html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; id=ie8 ![endif]-- !--[if IE 9 ]html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; id=ie9 ![endif]-- !--[if gt IE 9] html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; ![endif]-- !--[if !IE]!--html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml;!--![endif]-- Mr. Irish using it on the body, with classes, but read on his site that using on the html element was fine as well. Guess not. I think I'll stick to the tried and true conditional comments it's it's traditional use... Thanks David. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] html5 issue
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote: No luck there, but thanks. Here's the head to my page: !DOCTYPE html html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; change the above line to just html that will take care of this error. cut !--- STYLES --- this line will also throw an error due to too many dashes -- Jason Arnold http://www.jasonarnold.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] html5 issue
/ is not necessary to close the meta tag. meta charset=utf-8 Maybe this solve the problem. Imho, the / should make no difference, I believe the problem is that this meta is too far down in the markup. The OP should try to put that meta right after head -- Regards, Thierry www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] html5 issue
!DOCTYPE html html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; change the above line to just html that will take care of this error. cut !--- STYLES --- this line will also throw an error due to too many dashes Thanks Jason! That's fabulous! Changing the HTML element was the trick! I can't, however, change the number of dashes as that is a ColdFusion comment and, well, I'm using ColdFusion! Thanks Again. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Semantics, lists and links
Hi Ellen A list is semantically correct. It also has advantages for screen reader users as they can navigate lists with a simple key combination. Glen On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 2:33 AM, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Ellen Herzfeld s...@xlii.org Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 18:35:03 +0200 Subject: Semantics, lists and links Hello, I have been, since forever, using unordered lists to mark up navigation links. This seems to be the standard recommended method used by all the people in the know. Depending on the situation, the list will be styled vertically or horizontally. No problem there. However, when CSS is disabled (or when no stylesheet is served for old old browsers), all these links appear as vertical lists with bullets. A screen reader will, I suppose, pronounce bullet every time before every item as shown in Fangs. Now, this is not an issue when the list is four or five items long, but when it gets to ten items or more, I find the long vertical list to be obstrusive. I am working on a site that has a main navigation menu, styled inline, near the top with ten links to the ten major parts of the site. And in one section of the site, all the pages also have have a second horizontal navigation menu with the twenty six letters of the alphabet. Without CSS, this makes for a very long, very narrow, list of links that you have to scroll past to get to the meat of the page. Yes, I do have a skip navigation and go to content menu at the very top, but still, I have a problem with this. An alternative solution is to put all the links in a nav with no list (I'm using html5 elements). The links will then appear on one line when CSS is disabled. I'm not sure yet if a p in the nav would be necessary for old browsers. The items can be separated by a non-breaking space for readability. I am trying to apply best practices and make my markup as semantically correct as possible so I have some questions: Is there a compelling reason to keep the lists? Would the markup be dramatically unsemantic without them? What do you people think? Thanks, Ellen * From: Ted Drake tdr...@yahoo-inc.com Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 12:05:18 -0500 Subject: RE: [WSG] Semantics, lists and links A screen reader will not say bullet. It will, however grab that list and ad d it to a secondary navigation tool for the page. Screen reader users are a ble to see all of the lists on a page, as well as all headers. They can the n skip directly to the items they are interested in. So use your lists and headers. It's good stuff. You can also add Aria roles to the list: ul role=main. Ted -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On B ehalf Of Ellen Herzfeld Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:35 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Semantics, lists and links Hello, I have been, since forever, using unordered lists to mark up navigation lin ks. This seems to be the standard recommended method used by all the peop le in the know. Depending on the situation, the list will be styled vertica lly or horizontally. No problem there. However, when CSS is disabled (or when no stylesheet is served for old old browsers), all these links appear as vertical lists with bullets. A screen reader will, I suppose, pronounce bullet every time before every item as shown in Fangs. Now, this is not an issue when the list is four or five items long, but whe n it gets to ten items or more, I find the long vertical list to be obstrus ive. I am working on a site that has a main navigation menu, styled inline, near the top with ten links to the ten major parts of the site. And in one section of the site, all the pages also have have a second horiz ontal navigation menu with the twenty six letters of the alphabet. Without CSS, this makes for a very long, very narrow, list of links that yo u have to scroll past to get to the meat of the page. Yes, I do have a ski p navigation and go to content menu at the very top, but still, I have a problem with this. An alternative solution is to put all the links in a nav with no list (I' m using html5 elements). The links will then appear on one line when CSS is disabled. I'm not sure yet if a p in the nav would be necessary for ol d browsers. The items can be separated by a non-breaking space for readability. I am trying to apply best practices and make my markup as semantically co rrect as possible so I have some questions: Is there a compelling reason to keep the lists? Would the markup be dramatically unsemantic without them? What do you people think? Thanks, Ellen
