Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
Agreed it does depend entirely on the situation and users. By universally implemented I wasn't being flippant, I meant to be saying that things have moved on, just the modified model of radio set use doesn't work everywhere. For some reason undefined/unset radio button sets get overlooked by users trying to complete a form fast than some other methods. Personally I try to reword/remodel to avoid uses of yes/no answers. If unsure run some user audience testing. If they hesitate longer at a yes/no then perhaps that is confusing for them. From a html/w3C standpoint I don't have an issue of course, my view was purely user experience. Regards, Steve On 8 Jun 2010, at 02:38, Ben Buchanan wrote: On 7 June 2010 14:58, Steve Gibbings st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote: I have a problem with that. Radio button sets should always have an option selected, there is no undefined selection. This makes sense when you remember where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that doesn't get universally implemented. Technically correct, true. Would you recommend a checkbox instead, or some other option? In practice I think the usage of radio buttons has shifted to accommodate sets with no initial selection. In usability terms it's probably better than a dropdown for a yes/no; and some people do have some issues with the implied off state of checkboxes. Compare it with a paper form where you have two boxes and you tick or cross an option - there's no preselection. I guess it depends which paradigm is more likely to fit the scenario. cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
lol, well yes but then that would be attempting to break the input device on real radios. Funnily we must be twins because as a kid I used to try to do that too. I broke so much stuff... On 8 Jun 2010, at 05:39, Lucien Stals wrote: And I seem to recall that the old radios on which the metaphor is based could be pushed half in. That would cause all buttons to pop out thus having *no* selection. Not saying that as a justification for having no selection in a radio group. Just pointing out that the metaphor wears a bit thin ;) Lucien. On 08/06/2010, at 11:38 AM, Ben Buchanan wrote: On 7 June 2010 14:58, Steve Gibbings st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote: I have a problem with that. Radio button sets should always have an option selected, there is no undefined selection. This makes sense when you remember where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that doesn't get universally implemented. Technically correct, true. Would you recommend a checkbox instead, or some other option? In practice I think the usage of radio buttons has shifted to accommodate sets with no initial selection. In usability terms it's probably better than a dropdown for a yes/no; and some people do have some issues with the implied off state of checkboxes. Compare it with a paper form where you have two boxes and you tick or cross an option - there's no preselection. I guess it depends which paradigm is more likely to fit the scenario. cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
Agreed it does depend entirely on the situation and users. By universally implemented I wasn't being flippant, I meant to be saying that things have moved on, just the modified model of radio set use doesn't work everywhere. For some reason undefined/unset radio button sets get overlooked by users trying to complete a form fast than some other methods. Personally I try to reword/remodel to avoid uses of yes/no answers. If unsure run some user audience testing. If they hesitate longer at a yes/no then perhaps that is confusing for them. From a html/w3C standpoint I don't have an issue of course, my view was purely user experience. On 8 Jun 2010, at 02:38, Ben Buchanan wrote: On 7 June 2010 14:58, Steve Gibbings st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote: I have a problem with that. Radio button sets should always have an option selected, there is no undefined selection. This makes sense when you remember where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that doesn't get universally implemented. Technically correct, true. Would you recommend a checkbox instead, or some other option? In practice I think the usage of radio buttons has shifted to accommodate sets with no initial selection. In usability terms it's probably better than a dropdown for a yes/no; and some people do have some issues with the implied off state of checkboxes. Compare it with a paper form where you have two boxes and you tick or cross an option - there's no preselection. I guess it depends which paradigm is more likely to fit the scenario. cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes/No structure?
I have a problem with that. Radio button sets should always have an option selected, there is no undefined selection. This makes sense when you remember where the radio button metaphor came from. However seems that doesn't get universally implemented. On 7 Jun 2010, at 02:25, Ben Buchanan wrote: On 4 June 2010 12:29, nedlud ned...@gmail.com wrote: I have a web form I'm building and there is a simple yes/no question in it. I got to wondering what the best semantic mark up for this is? Does anyone have any good UI/UX suggestions? My three ideas were... Two radio buttons for yes and no... pDo you...?/p label for=ans-yesYes/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-yes label for=ans-noNo/labelinput type=radio name=ans id=ans-no I go back to the fact radio buttons show mutually-exclusive options, which makes a very clear yes/no. If your question needs the user to actively specify a yes or no, it's a good solution. Checkboxes mean one response is given by omission, which is a less definitive interaction. Since radio buttons are one element short on their own, you need to wrap them in a fieldset and legend to essentially act like a label for the set of radio buttons. I also think the button should be on the left and the text on the right (in left-to-right languages), since a) that just seems the most common thing, and b) if you were to add a couple of divs to create rows, the buttons would line up neatly above each other. Which gives us... fieldsetlegendDo you...?/legend input type=radio name=ans id=ans-yeslabel for=ans-yesYes/label input type=radio name=ans id=ans-nolabel for=ans-noNo/label /fieldset Hope that helps... cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Podlena, Stephen is out of the office.
Please people set your email auto responses to not respond to email groups. You should be able to add addresses to ignore. Thanks. On 5 Jun 2010, at 00:11, spodl...@bayside.vic.gov.au wrote: I will be out of the office starting 05/06/2010 and will not return until 08/06/2010. I will respond to your message when I return. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Testing on Windows 7
Correction I meant would NOT expect any material differences... You're very welcome Peter. Steve Gibbings Web designer Developer www.stevegibbingsdesign.co.uk On 11/04/2010 10:46, Peter Mount wrote: Thanks for that Have a good day. -- Peter Mount i...@petermount.com On 11/04/2010, at 7:34 PM, st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote: Well I am not exactly saying that as I would test ie6 ie7 on XP and ie8 on windows 7. It really depends on your clients, the site etc. But I really would expect any material differences between the same non-ie browser and version on XP and windows 7. Maybe schedule some brief testing until you feel confident? You will need to use XP for ie6 and ie7 testing anyway. Hope this helps. Steve Sent from my iPhone On 11 Apr 2010, at 10:11, Peter Mounti...@petermount.com wrote: Hi I just want to know if there is a need to test in both Windows XP and Windows 7 i.e. if there is a need to schedule additional OS version testing. I take it from your reply it's good enough just to test in Windows 7, without testing in Windows XP as well. Thanks -- Peter Mount i...@petermount.com On 11/04/2010, at 6:54 PM, st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote: I haven't noticed anything in firefox or chrome when the same version is used. Nothing big enough to make me wonder if a client would try to suggest it was a bug in the site. Of course this is somewhat immaterial as you wouldn't be able to solve anything caused by OS version subtle differences and I would say there will be more obvious differences between Windows, Mac and Linux. I gave up long ago trying to make sites photographically identical across browsers let alone OS. Are you asking in case you need to schedule additional OS version testing? Steve Gibbings Web designer Developer www.stevegibbingsdesign.co.uk Sent from my iPhone On 11 Apr 2010, at 09:28, Peter Mounti...@petermount.com wrote: Hi I'm just asking in general. I just want do know if there's any difference in any of the currently used web browsers. Thanks -- Peter Mount i...@petermount.com On 11/04/2010, at 6:06 PM, st...@stevegibbings.co.uk wrote: I have windows 7 and XP running on VMWare player. What browser and version are we talking about and do you have a site that exhibits a difference? I can take a look and let you know. Steve Gibbings Web designer Developer www.stevegibbingsdesign.co.uk Sent from my iPhone On 11 Apr 2010, at 07:05, Peter Mounti...@petermount.com wrote: Hi Has anybody noticed differences in web browser testing on Windows 7 compared to Windows XP? Or do web sites show up the same on Windows 7 as they would on Windows XP? Thanks -- Peter Mount i...@petermount.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
