Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :(
I've been feeling a bit guilty for the past few months because I wouldn't get the bugs out of a friend's insurance-business site for him on the ultra-cheap. The tables and inline mess would've taken so long to sort out that I probably would've been better off, time-wise, starting from scratch. I offered him a discounted rate, but it wasn't enough of a discount for him, I guess. Now, I'm thinking I did the right thing after all. I know he wouldn't've appreciated the clean coding, and he definitely wouldn't've appreciated the time spent. Jo Hawke On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Simon Pascal Klein kle...@klepas.orgwrote: On 30/01/2009, at 2:15 AM, kie...@humdingerdesigns.co.uk kie...@humdingerdesigns.co.uk wrote: Join the club, I've been commissioned to do a local website and the guy was hoping he'd be able to get a quick bug-fix on his current with a bit of updating. Unfortuanetly the css was akin to the Guttenberg Bible; completely unreadable and would have been a pig to translate. Not to mention, a strange and chaotic mishmash of tables, frames and weird proprietary software markup. Some clients (and this one did, thank god) need to realize that when the original is written by a back street bedroom I can do that wannabe, they're paying for someone who can stick a few words and pics up and not much else. Wel, I for one, relish at the idea of getting my hands on a Gutenburg Bible and reading it… well analysing the lettering and type rather, but hey. :-) From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: 29 January 2009 14:13 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Failed A Job :( [...] --- Simon Pascal Klein Graphic Web Designer Web: http://klepas.org E-mai: kle...@klepas.org Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas Kaffee und Kuchen. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Acceptable autoplay of music
I have to toss my vote in the no autoplay pot, as well. Many users have their own media playing already or, as someone mentioned, are in an environment where blaring music is unacceptable. I find it extremely annoying when a site takes over. That's one reason I can't stand going to most MySpace pages. :( Jo On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Brian Cummiskey [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Nancy Johnson wrote: If I come to a site with music playing, I leave it immediately without looking at the site. I don't know best practices, but I believe the user needs to be in control. same here. what's even worse is if there's no volume/pause button CLEARLY visible on the page to quickly shut it off. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Tables for product=price list
I vote table. It's not really a list, regardless of the title you put on it. It's a chart. Jo On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 4:01 AM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to use them when they need to be used. I am working on a tattoo website and the client wants a list of pricing for tattoos and peircings. Would you say this is a good candidate for a table? Although 'price list' states list, its not to say that a list should be used. Any ideas. James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Centering all items in a li
Darren, Try assigning a line-height and a height to the li, and make the two the same. Jo On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Darren Lovelock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah it is a bit of a tricky one lol! Looks like this is one example where tables are better for layout! Thanks very much for taking a look though :) Darren -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Fellows Sent: 18 May 2008 13:09 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Centering all items in a li lol I think I will leave this one alone, I think i'm making you're job more difficult instead of the other way around! Please do send through your solution when you find it so I can have that 'light bulb' moment. Cheers, -- Matt Fellows http://www.onegeek.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
W3Schools is not related to or sanctioned by the W3C.
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Stuart Foulstone [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
http://www.w3schools.com/CSS/css_syntax.asp
The class Selector
With the class selector you can define different styles for the same type
of HTML element.
Say that you would like to have two types of paragraphs in your document:
one right-aligned paragraph, and one center-aligned paragraph. Here is how
you can do it with styles:
p.right {text-align: right}
p.center {text-align: center}
You have to use the class attribute in your HTML document:
p class=right
This paragraph will be right-aligned.
/p
p class=center
This paragraph will be center-aligned.
/p
On Sun, May 4, 2008 1:12 pm, Chris Price wrote:
Stuart Foulstone wrote:
CSS classes are for presentation.
Content is content.
Centering content is presentation.
Class names should not use keywords such as center.
centre is not a keyword and can be used.
The class centre can then be used anywhere centering is desired.
It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish
to
use some more obscure name, feel free.
But the class attribute (centre) is not css. css is what you apply to
that class.
Markup is markup.
Css is css.
--
Kind Regards
Chris Price
Choctaw
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.choctaw.co.uk http://www.choctaw.co.uk
Tel. 01524 825 245
Mob. 0777 451 4488
Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while
Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional
~~
Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd
~~
Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in
England and Wales with company number 04627649
Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close,
St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB . United Kingdom
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[WSG] Making Video Accessible
Hello. I recently found a video embedder plugin that works well with WordPress and validates perfectly with a strict doctype. But I realize validation does not equal accessibility, so what exactly needs to be done to make video accessible? Is it a matter of adding a subtitle track? Thanks for your help. Jo Hawke http://www.viabledesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Making Video Accessible
Thanks for the links, Bruce; I'll check them out. The creator of the video-embedder plugin that I'm using actually asked me what he could do to make it accessible, so I'm asking for help here because I frankly don't have a clue. But if there's a way, and he's willing to make it happen, it would definitely be a good thing. Jo On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would say sub titles for sure. I found 2 players that are excellent for this, the open source player by http://www.jeroenwijering.com using SWFObject embed and javascript php player http://www.rich-media-project.com/ There's probably others I am sure but these are excellent/ easy to add subtitles-captions For plugins that may be a different matter as one is limited to the plugin then, which is why I seldom use them. Bruce Prochnau bkdesign solutions - Original Message - From: Viable Design [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 12:34 PM Subject: [WSG] Making Video Accessible Hello. I recently found a video embedder plugin that works well with WordPress and validates perfectly with a strict doctype. But I realize validation does not equal accessibility, so what exactly needs to be done to make video accessible? Is it a matter of adding a subtitle track? Thanks for your help. Jo Hawke http://www.viabledesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CMS review
Hi there, Alysia. The code on both sites looks awful to me: the huge list of styles in the header, the bloated table-based layout. Both are drawbacks as they tend to lengthen page-loading time and create a lag effect for the user. Not a pleasant, I-want-to-return sort of environment, to say the least. And clearly part of the CMS itself. On another note, however, you refer to standards-compliance as though it's somehow separate from usability, but it's not. The standards are best practices because they provide a better experience for the user, and they help the developer save time and money. Plus, they're set up to create pages that will work with the most types of browsers, which also adds to the usability of the site. Why in the world would anyone *not* want this? Sincerely, Jo Hawke http://www.viabledesign.com On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 6:57 PM, alysia hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. I have just discovered this australian based company Powerfront. I am really interested in some feedback. I'm a graphic designer, and I have worked with developers that build wonderful standards compliant websites with a CMS. I have looked at the source code of Powerfront websites, which appears to have a lot of syling in the html pages, rather than in a CSS file. From a 'non programming' person, this doesn't look very standards compliant. My question is, Is it standards compliant? If not, does that matter? Can anyone fault these websites? I have the up most regard for the WSG, and all those in the industry creating conferences, speaking publicly, writing articles etc on making code better for all concerned, but leaving that aside, does anyone have any critisisms about this CMS (other than the fact that it might not be compliant?) Here is an example website which I think is pretty good http://www.goodshepvic.org.au/ Here is the company website http://www.powerfront.com/ Any Powerfront employees, I welcome your feedback too! thanks, alysia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] standards-compliant designers
There is blame to go around, for sure. I had an accessibility issue just this morning, while trying to find out about filing an insurance claim on my husband's car (which someone ran into in the middle of the night ... and took off). In Firefox, my browser of choice, the text on the page I needed was overlapping, and many of the links were not clickable. I switched to IE, and the page was totally fine; everything was in perfect working order. I couldn't help but check the source code, and of course, it was designed using tables. There were 187 errors, according to the W3C validation service. I e-mailed the company and received a quick reply that they had recently discovered an error that was preventing a small number of customers from accessing their claim information. Pretty generic, as expected. The company is customer-service based, according to its policies and my experience, so why would the powers that be within it not choose to make its Web site accessible to all? It's not like they don't have the money to make it happen. I propose that most people would choose not to inform them of the difficulties they have in the first place. It reminds me of the days (long ago!) when I was a waitress. Most of the customers who had a bad experience due to the food or the service (from other waitresses, of course!) wouldn't complain or explain; they'd merely pay their bills and leave, never to return, intent on informing everyone they knew about that awful restaurant. And then I think about how many times I personally have chosen to just let bad experiences go in fast-food restaurants, convenience stores, gas stations. The girl who jerked my money out of my hand with a scowl on her face and no thank-you. The guy who took five minutes to wait on me because he was too busy on his cell phone. I have gone to the manager sometimes, but most of the time, I just consider it too much hassle and let it go. The same is surely true of Internet experiences, I propose, at an exponentially greater rate of occurrence. The next page is just a click away. If it's a page that must be accessed, however, as in my insurance experience this morning, it's a different story, of course. But most of the time, I personally simply leave the site and make a note of what not to do. I'm self-taught. I sorted through HTML as a sort of grief therapy when I'd lost my baby (and almost gone with him) in 1999 and was out of work for months. I began learning about CSS more than three years ago and only learned about accessibility/Web standards within the last couple of years. But I'm diligently learning as much as I can (with three kids and a full-time teaching job that invariably comes home with me most days...). I'm going to make it my personal goal to begin contacting the people who make sites that aren't accessible to let them know in what way I had difficulty using their site. Not in a lofty, condescending way, but in a I thought you may want to know way. Maybe they won't care. Maybe they'll be offended. Maybe they won't get it at all. Maybe it won't do any good. But maybe it will. Jo Hawke http://www.viabledesign.com On Jan 9, 2008 8:59 PM, Matthew Barben [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tend to agree with Mark. IT guys in my experience tend not to be 'joiners' you work in a corporate IT department and you will quickly realise that people use terms like 'Crypt' and 'Beige' I have worked from both sides of the fence as both an indepentant but also as the main web guy within a large organisation. Yes there are situations where we have had to use external vendors to design websites purely because they have to resources to deliver quickly...and I can see how these agencies can produce very poor code and have the business owner say 'yes'. But there are also organisations where they will impose a set of design guidelines upon these firms and really put the pressure on them to deliver (especially is industries where you are an essential service and need to deliver to a wide audience of both abled and disabled people). Does it make the firm a bunch of non-compliant designers...perhaps. But I say for every poorly design website, there is someone who says 'Yes that is what I want' or 'that'll do'. Steve Green wrote: Of course I made up that 1% figure but I don't suppose it's far out. Just look at the phenomenal number of crap websites out there. There are something like 100,000 people offering web design services in the UK (10,000 in London alone) yet GAWDS membership (which is global) is only around 500 and I believe WSG membership is similar. Don't confuse volume with quantity. Lots of people do. There are a lot of crap sites out there but that doesn't mean there's 1 crap designer for every crap site. A lot of the time, the crapness has to do with the business manager who over-rules any technical considerations because he wants animated pictures of little ponies flying round the product. 1
