RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please.
I agree, but within reason. If the topic is related to the Web (i.e. standards, design, app development, database engineering, systems integration, education, etc.) then it's on point. A more open forum will only help to facilitate, and bring attention to "Web Standards," which has to seemlessly integrate with other Internet technologies that we can learn about, and benefit from. Respectfully submitted, Mario S. Cisneros > But until you do that - 99% of the people who have subscribed here have > done so in the hopes of discussing web standards, and no other aspects > of the internet. > Pay them the respect they deserve and bring only those discussions here. > > * > > I do pay respect (by not participating except for this occasion ;-), I > don't think my email was offensive, obviously you are offended. > I simply stated the facts, and I'm not sure about that 99% you are > talking about are you willing to bet on that? > > Ciao... > > > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please.
But until you do that - 99% of the people who have subscribed here have done so in the hopes of discussing web standards, and no other aspects of the internet. Pay them the respect they deserve and bring only those discussions here. * I do pay respect (by not participating except for this occasion ;-), I don't think my email was offensive, obviously you are offended. I simply stated the facts, and I'm not sure about that 99% you are talking about are you willing to bet on that? Ciao... * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please.
On Sat, 15 May 2004 10:26:25 +1000, Taco Fleur wrote: > This list is good, but the moderators like to keep it on topic, I think > mainly to please some of the people that work for the government, and these > people (not specifically government people) do not know how to sort or skip > off topic threads. Taco, There are basically two types of mailling lists: on-topic and open discussion. On-topic lists are designed to allow discussion on a particular topic Open discussion lists are where people have more general discussions of whatever takes their fancy. When Peter and Russ started this list they decided that it would be an on-topic list. This means that we shouldnt be starting discussions on whatever we feel like chatting about, but should only post about items related to Web Standards. And you dont have to like this! You CAN do something about it. Get access to a server running mail and start a mailing list. http://groups.yahoo.com/ is one very easy and free way to do just that - there are others, too. Go there and start a mailing list for Interesting Discussions By People Who Otherwise Design Websites. Ask the admins here and they might even be happy for you to announce that you've started it - they'll probably even subsequently tell people who do start OT threads to go post there instead. But until you do that - 99% of the people who have subscribed here have done so in the hopes of discussing web standards, and no other aspects of the internet. Pay them the respect they deserve and bring only those discussions here. HIH Lea ~ not a list moderator and definitely not a government employee -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/ Brisbane, Australia * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please.
LOL - I guess and our mods have opened the discussion up in the forum - If the Xoops and their brethren were closer to being standards compliant, I'd seriously ask why not go to a forum type format - easier for all and you can check and reply as necessary yet avoid topics your not interested in. Just a thought - as I find the group admittedly a little dry at times, but what info is presented has taught me a few things and I have been able to use them in design - in that sense, reason for joining is accomplished and mission of the group is accomplished by my learning more accessible methods for my design. Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) -Original Message- From: Taco Fleur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 5:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please. Lost battle (I tried before), for good off topic discussions go to CFAUSSIE.. This list is good, but the moderators like to keep it on topic, I think mainly to please some of the people that work for the government, and these people (not specifically government people) do not know how to sort or skip off topic threads. The moderators have provided a facility to discuss off-topic discussions though, you have to give them credit for it, but I reckon it doesn't work, I sure as hell can't be bothered to go somewhere else to continue discussions. I explained before that a lot of people remove themselves from the list due to the strictness of the list, which is a shame because those people need web standards the most. I think a lot of the people on the list also feel they have to answer every questions asked, which of course puts a lot off stress on these people (and therefore like to keep the list as clean as possible), but they have to understand they are not the only ones that are here to answer questions and should not feel pressured into having to answer every question asked. I personally think just about every off-topic thread will eventually become on-topic in the progress of discussion, and allowing these off-topic threads attracts more interest in this list by many people and thus learning more about web standards eventually, which is what this list is all about, trying to get new people to work with and understand web standards. Of course I opened my big mouth again by saying all this, whip me (please ;-), it's just the way I am. Taco Fleur Tell me and I will forget Show me and I will remember Teach me and I will learn > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Christie > Sent: Saturday, 15 May 2004 8:20 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - > Open it back up! Please. > > > Active discussions get their head lopped off when they don't have > anything to do with standards. This particular thread covered > the value > of a university degree in the web design business... had it have been > "the lack of decent web design instruction in major universities", it > would have carried on longer. > > sad, sad story it is. > > --Ryan Christie > > theGrafixGuy wrote: > > >Why do the active threads get killed? Some one asks a decent > question > >and gets some very valid input only to get killed off??? > > > >Just because something may not be of interest to the particular > >moderator on duty, I'd like to see a little consideration > out there as > >well - if it is producing some interesting conversation and > something > >worth reading and apparently of enough interest to readers to reply, > >why not let it continue? > > > >Heck, if I were the moderator, I'd be more inclined to jump > on the Out > >of Office setters who don't know their e-mail from the end of their > >nose. > > > >My two cents worth on the matter - and no I am not trying to be > >disrespectful, just hoping to see some more interesting topics and > >e-mails than 23 in a 20 hour period! > > > > > >Brian Grimmer > > > >theGrafixGuy > > > >-Original Message- > >From: Peter Firminger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:56 AM > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED > > > >Russ already stopped this thread. Please do not continue with it on > >list. > > > >P > > > > > >* > >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > >See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please.
Lost battle (I tried before), for good off topic discussions go to CFAUSSIE.. This list is good, but the moderators like to keep it on topic, I think mainly to please some of the people that work for the government, and these people (not specifically government people) do not know how to sort or skip off topic threads. The moderators have provided a facility to discuss off-topic discussions though, you have to give them credit for it, but I reckon it doesn't work, I sure as hell can't be bothered to go somewhere else to continue discussions. I explained before that a lot of people remove themselves from the list due to the strictness of the list, which is a shame because those people need web standards the most. I think a lot of the people on the list also feel they have to answer every questions asked, which of course puts a lot off stress on these people (and therefore like to keep the list as clean as possible), but they have to understand they are not the only ones that are here to answer questions and should not feel pressured into having to answer every question asked. I personally think just about every off-topic thread will eventually become on-topic in the progress of discussion, and allowing these off-topic threads attracts more interest in this list by many people and thus learning more about web standards eventually, which is what this list is all about, trying to get new people to work with and understand web standards. Of course I opened my big mouth again by saying all this, whip me (please ;-), it's just the way I am. Taco Fleur Tell me and I will forget Show me and I will remember Teach me and I will learn > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Christie > Sent: Saturday, 15 May 2004 8:20 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - > Open it back up! Please. > > > Active discussions get their head lopped off when they don't have > anything to do with standards. This particular thread covered > the value > of a university degree in the web design business... had it have been > "the lack of decent web design instruction in major universities", it > would have carried on longer. > > sad, sad story it is. > > --Ryan Christie > > theGrafixGuy wrote: > > >Why do the active threads get killed? Some one asks a decent > question > >and gets some very valid input only to get killed off??? > > > >Just because something may not be of interest to the particular > >moderator on duty, I'd like to see a little consideration > out there as > >well - if it is producing some interesting conversation and > something > >worth reading and apparently of enough interest to readers to reply, > >why not let it continue? > > > >Heck, if I were the moderator, I'd be more inclined to jump > on the Out > >of Office setters who don't know their e-mail from the end of their > >nose. > > > >My two cents worth on the matter - and no I am not trying to be > >disrespectful, just hoping to see some more interesting topics and > >e-mails than 23 in a 20 hour period! > > > > > >Brian Grimmer > > > >theGrafixGuy > > > >-Original Message- > >From: Peter Firminger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:56 AM > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED > > > >Russ already stopped this thread. Please do not continue with it on > >list. > > > >P > > > > > >* > >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > >See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > >for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > >* > > > > > > > >* > >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > >See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > >for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > >* > > > > > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > * > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
Moved to discussion room: http://discuss.webstandardsgroup.org/archives/16.htm Go for it! Russ > Active discussions get their head lopped off when they don't have > anything to do with standards. This particular thread covered the value > of a university degree in the web design business... had it have been > "the lack of decent web design instruction in major universities", it > would have carried on longer. > > sad, sad story it is. > > --Ryan Christie > > theGrafixGuy wrote: > >> Why do the active threads get killed? Some one asks a decent question and >> gets some very valid input only to get killed off??? >> >> Just because something may not be of interest to the particular moderator on >> duty, I'd like to see a little consideration out there as well - if it is >> producing some interesting conversation and something worth reading and >> apparently of enough interest to readers to reply, why not let it continue? >> >> Heck, if I were the moderator, I'd be more inclined to jump on the Out of >> Office setters who don't know their e-mail from the end of their nose. >> >> My two cents worth on the matter - and no I am not trying to be >> disrespectful, just hoping to see some more interesting topics and e-mails >> than 23 in a 20 hour period! >> >> >> Brian Grimmer >> >> theGrafixGuy * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please.
Active discussions get their head lopped off when they don't have anything to do with standards. This particular thread covered the value of a university degree in the web design business... had it have been "the lack of decent web design instruction in major universities", it would have carried on longer. sad, sad story it is. --Ryan Christie theGrafixGuy wrote: Why do the active threads get killed? Some one asks a decent question and gets some very valid input only to get killed off??? Just because something may not be of interest to the particular moderator on duty, I'd like to see a little consideration out there as well - if it is producing some interesting conversation and something worth reading and apparently of enough interest to readers to reply, why not let it continue? Heck, if I were the moderator, I'd be more inclined to jump on the Out of Office setters who don't know their e-mail from the end of their nose. My two cents worth on the matter - and no I am not trying to be disrespectful, just hoping to see some more interesting topics and e-mails than 23 in a 20 hour period! Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy -Original Message- From: Peter Firminger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED Russ already stopped this thread. Please do not continue with it on list. P * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please.
Why do the active threads get killed? Some one asks a decent question and gets some very valid input only to get killed off??? Just because something may not be of interest to the particular moderator on duty, I'd like to see a little consideration out there as well - if it is producing some interesting conversation and something worth reading and apparently of enough interest to readers to reply, why not let it continue? Heck, if I were the moderator, I'd be more inclined to jump on the Out of Office setters who don't know their e-mail from the end of their nose. My two cents worth on the matter - and no I am not trying to be disrespectful, just hoping to see some more interesting topics and e-mails than 23 in a 20 hour period! Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy -Original Message- From: Peter Firminger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED Russ already stopped this thread. Please do not continue with it on list. P * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
The ability to finish what you've started is good. But I think, the ability to give up what you've started if you find it useless is more better! Cheers Peter A. Shevtsov Gabriel Vasquez wrote: Hi Everyone, I apologize if this is off topic but this is one of the few places that I would be able to talk to web designers and get their opinions on this. I've been attending school to get an Associates degree in Digital Media. The program is 18 months and ranges from html to 3d graphics. I'm already more than halfway through my courses, but I find that I hit a road block; I'm not really learning anything. We are just now getting into *basic* css, and javascript in dreamweaver (which I already know how to do, even though I prefer to hand-code). The program is now focusing on 3D animation but that's really not what I'm into at all. I just want to do web design: xhtml, css, ECMAScript/DOM, etc. -- no more, no less. I don't feel I should spend the money for something I'm not getting anything out of. My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for me to finish the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning what I want to be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web design? TIA in advanced for your feedback! Gabriel * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
> displaying the ability to finish something you started I hear this comment thrown about a lot as one of the major benefits of getting a degree, frankly I think that's absolute garbage. If a degree is reward for perserverence, all members of this list should be given honorary degrees today because if anyone displays the ability to remain dedicated to something we do!... and against all odds. That's my two bobs worth, for what its worth! Jackie *The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list & getting help*
Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
I attended earned a Bachelor of Fine Arts with a double emphasis in Graphic Design and Photography. This was between 1995 and 2000, and I had no "formal" training in Web Design. They didn't even offer classes for it at my school, other than some Flash stuff in a Multimedia class (which i never took). I taught myself HTML, etc., after my parents got AOL in 1995 and I was creating a homepage using their personal publisher software. I wanted to do more, so I got a book on HTML. I was able to blend my in-depth knowledge of HTML (started out coding in notepad, and still handcoding today) and my new knowledge of design fundamentals (even though they were for print) and apply it to my web designs. I was also lucky enough to get jobs in college doing web design (2 years for the school newspaper and 2 years for a computer/networking firm), so i was able to refine my skills in a "real world" setting. I also just paid attention to what was happening on the web. Glass Dog was a favorite hangout of mine back then, as well as the Builder.com boards. A degree helps. It helps your employer to see you as a professional, not just some "kid who like to design". Often times you can do well without a degree, but why risk it. - Jeremy Flint www.jeremyflint.com Gabriel Vasquez wrote: Hi Everyone, I apologize if this is off topic but this is one of the few places that I would be able to talk to web designers and get their opinions on this. I've been attending school to get an Associates degree in Digital Media. The program is 18 months and ranges from html to 3d graphics. I'm already more than halfway through my courses, but I find that I hit a road block; I'm not really learning anything. We are just now getting into *basic* css, and javascript in dreamweaver (which I already know how to do, even though I prefer to hand-code). The program is now focusing on 3D animation but that's really not what I'm into at all. I just want to do web design: xhtml, css, ECMAScript/DOM, etc. -- no more, no less. I don't feel I should spend the money for something I'm not getting anything out of. My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for me to finish the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning what I want to be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web design? TIA in advanced for your feedback! Gabriel * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED
Russ already stopped this thread. Please do not continue with it on list. P * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
I do agree with the person that said you should go ahead and finish the course work since you are already half way through it. That said, from my experiences in the job market, what matters more than a degree to potential employers is a good portfolio and experience working on projects. Certainly, the education can't hurt at all, but if I were you, I would start building a portfolio now, whether it be freelance projects or freebie pages for friends and family. $0.02 Will Chatham > -Original Message- > From: Gabriel Vasquez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:39 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? > > > Hi Everyone, I apologize if this is off topic but this is one > of the few places that I would be able to talk to web > designers and get their opinions on this. > > I've been attending school to get an Associates degree in > Digital Media. The program is 18 months and ranges from html > to 3d graphics. I'm already more than halfway through my > courses, but I find that I hit a road block; I'm not really > learning anything. We are just now getting into *basic* css, > and javascript in dreamweaver (which I already know how to > do, even though I prefer to hand-code). The program is now > focusing on 3D animation but that's really not what I'm into > at all. I just want to do web design: xhtml, css, > ECMAScript/DOM, etc. -- no more, no less. I don't feel I > should spend the money for something I'm not getting anything out of. > > My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for > me to finish the program and get the degree even though I'm > not learning what I want to be learning, or should I just > call it off and focus on web design? > > TIA in advanced for your feedback! > > Gabriel > > * > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > * > > * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
> From: Ray Cauchi [snip] > There have been positive arguments made for finishing your course > (such as displaying ability to finish something you started), but from > my experience, its more what you do now that matters. Slightly OT, but... I remember years ago when debating this issue with a friend, a gem of knowledge I gathered was that the (then) director general of ZDF, one of the two major national TV stations in Germany, had a degree in Pathology ... which does go to show that it's not always *what* you study that's important... Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
Hi there At the end of the day its your decision! I did 2 years B.Architecture, then abandoned the whole thing. 4 years later, I started my own business, which I have now been running for 5 years. Actually, I have dropped out of Uni twice. You don't need a Degree. There have been positive arguments made for finishing your course (such as displaying ability to finish something you started), but from my experience, its more what you do now that matters. A degree would be nice to have as a fallback, but as long as I stay in IT, my portfolio speaks for itself. If I get out of IT, then I will create a new portfolio in something else (maybe woodwork??) for which a Degree in IT would most likely have no relevance. Its more your attitude and approach to your work/life that matters. Do you intend to stay in IT until you die? I think trust your instincts, and run with them - best of luck whichever path you chose to follow! Ray At 04:38 PM 13/05/2004, Gabriel Vasquez wrote: Hi Everyone, I apologize if this is off topic but this is one of the few places that I would be able to talk to web designers and get their opinions on this. I've been attending school to get an Associates degree in Digital Media. The program is 18 months and ranges from html to 3d graphics. I'm already more than halfway through my courses, but I find that I hit a road block; I'm not really learning anything. We are just now getting into *basic* css, and _javascript_ in dreamweaver (which I already know how to do, even though I prefer to hand-code). The program is now focusing on 3D animation but that's really not what I'm into at all. I just want to do web design: xhtml, css, ECMAScript/DOM, etc. -- no more, no less. I don't feel I should spend the money for something I'm not getting anything out of. My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for me to finish the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning what I want to be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web design? TIA in advanced for your feedback! Gabriel * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
Hi there At the end of the day its your decision! I did 2 years B.Architecture, then abandoned the whole thing. 4 years later, I started my own business, which I have now been running for 5 years. Actually, I have dropped out of Uni twice. You don't need a Degree. There have been positive arguments made for finishing your course (such as displaying ability to finish something you started), but from my experience, its more what you do now that matters. A degree would be nice to have as a fallback, but as long as I stay in IT, my portfolio speaks for itself. If I get out of IT, then I will create a new portfolio in something else (maybe woodwork??) for which a Degree in IT would most likely have no relevance. Its more your attitude and approach to your work/life that matters. Do you intend to stay in IT until you die? I think trust your instincts, and run with them - best of luck whichever path you chose to follow! Ray At 04:38 PM 13/05/2004, Gabriel Vasquez wrote: Hi Everyone, I apologize if this is off topic but this is one of the few places that I would be able to talk to web designers and get their opinions on this. I've been attending school to get an Associates degree in Digital Media. The program is 18 months and ranges from html to 3d graphics. I'm already more than halfway through my courses, but I find that I hit a road block; I'm not really learning anything. We are just now getting into *basic* css, and _javascript_ in dreamweaver (which I already know how to do, even though I prefer to hand-code). The program is now focusing on 3D animation but that's really not what I'm into at all. I just want to do web design: xhtml, css, ECMAScript/DOM, etc. -- no more, no less. I don't feel I should spend the money for something I'm not getting anything out of. My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for me to finish the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning what I want to be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web design? TIA in advanced for your feedback! Gabriel * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
- Original Message - From: "Gabriel Vasquez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:38 PM Subject: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? > My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for me to finish > the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning what I want to > be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web design? A "complete" for your course looks much better to prospective employers on the resume than "DNF' - so good for that reason. The other thing is - nothing (or close to it) you learn at uni will be directly used in employment. Uni should teach you to teach yourself, teach you to think and teach you to communicate. I would even encourage you to do the 3D subjects etc, as it will be a paradigm shift to some extent - broaden your mind into other ways of thinking / approaching problems. Good luck :) Aaron * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
Having the degree is one thing, but enjoying what you do is another thing completely. I don't think you'll find many ppl who are successful at what they do but totally hate doing it... If you get into an IT job before you finish then you'll have a headstart on everyone else. -Original Message-From: Hill, Tim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:47 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? eheheh 'before computers were used in design' sounds really old sorry =) I think having a degree is alot better than just having a portfolio. I guess its really what you put in, is what you get out. Like you could still do a degree and just do the bare minimum just keeping up, not putting in any real work, and then wow you have the degree but not an awful lot of experience. 3D might help you out later on, or can you ask to take different subjects perhaps? Tim HillComputer AssociatesGraphic Artisttel: +612 9937 0792fax: +612 9937 0546[EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Universal HeadSent: Thursday, 13 May 2004 5:01 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? Maybe you should look into design education. It sounds like the course you are doing is very technology based. Of course if you want to code, that's fine. But if you want to communicate visually, and understand how to present information using space, type, colour, relationships etc, then that's a whole different ballgame. It was a long time ago, but I did four years of design education before computers were used in design, and I learnt things that seemed very general at the time, but I realise now were a perfect grounding for a design career. It seems that courses now are so eager to get people into using Maya or learning _javascript_ or whatever that they don't actually teach the basics. Man, I really sound like an old fogey don't I? Peter On 13/05/2004, at 4:38 PM, Gabriel Vasquez wrote: Hi Everyone, I apologize if this is off topic but this is one of the few places that I would be able to talk to web designers and get their opinions on this. I've been attending school to get an Associates degree in Digital Media. The program is 18 months and ranges from html to 3d graphics. I'm already more than halfway through my courses, but I find that I hit a road block; I'm not really learning anything. We are just now getting into *basic* css, and _javascript_ in dreamweaver (which I already know how to do, even though I prefer to hand-code). The program is now focusing on 3D animation but that's really not what I'm into at all. I just want to do web design: xhtml, css, ECMAScript/DOM, etc. -- no more, no less. I don't feel I should spend the money for something I'm not getting anything out of. My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for me to finish the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning what I want to be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web design? TIA in advanced for your feedback! Gabriel * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
a degree might not be essential to start out... but in 5 to ten years when you are trying to get senior positions you will be MUCH better for it Gabriel Vasquez wrote: Hi Everyone, I apologize if this is off topic but this is one of the few places that I would be able to talk to web designers and get their opinions on this. I've been attending school to get an Associates degree in Digital Media. The program is 18 months and ranges from html to 3d graphics. I'm already more than halfway through my courses, but I find that I hit a road block; I'm not really learning anything. We are just now getting into *basic* css, and javascript in dreamweaver (which I already know how to do, even though I prefer to hand-code). The program is now focusing on 3D animation but that's really not what I'm into at all. I just want to do web design: xhtml, css, ECMAScript/DOM, etc. -- no more, no less. I don't feel I should spend the money for something I'm not getting anything out of. My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for me to finish the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning what I want to be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web design? TIA in advanced for your feedback! Gabriel * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? - ADMIN
For this thread, answers would be better directed to Gabriel offlist. Russ >> My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for me to finish >> the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning what I want to >> be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web design? >> >> TIA in advanced for your feedback! >> >> Gabriel The Australian Museum. Australia's first - and leading - natural sciences and anthropology museum. Visit www.amonline.net.au The views in this email are those of the user and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Australian Museum. The information contained in this email message and any accompanying files is or may be confidential and is for the intended recipient only. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, reliance, forwarding, printing or copying of this email or any attached files is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify the sender.The Australian Museum does not guarantee the accuracy of any information contained in this e-mail or attached files. As Internet communications are not secure, the Australian Museum does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message or attached files.
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
My short answer: A uni degree is more than just a piece of paper, its a statement that you were determined and dedicated enought to finish what you'd started. I dropped out in 3rd of 4 years and even though it hasn't affected me yet, I worry that I'll be wishing I had finished it when I apply for higher paid positions in future. My long answer: If you have 3 hours free to read my rant below you might make some sense of it. After reading it myself I'm thinking that I just really needed to VENT! RANT ALERT! I don't think anyone would argue that you'll get a better 'education' working in the real world, compared to learning in University. Well, maybe some would argue? When I was still Uni about 5 years ago they were just starting to create courses that catered for the emergence ecommerce. The course I was already in was a CS/Multimedia degree with little to no real web stuff at all. We did do some flash and shockwave stuff but I was more interested in data driven applications. I was already playing around designing websites and basic database driven PHP applications and I was pretty sure that I was never going to be taught about Apache, PHP, HTML or advanced CSS at uni. So far (in 3rd year) we'd spent about 2 weeks on web site development, and that involved building a basic page in Netscape Composer of all things! That said, i think the CS subjects gave me invaluable knowledge about the basics of programming and I'd probably be a much worse coder than I am if not for that basic training. It just got to a point where I wanted to go in a direction that uni just wasn't gonna cater for... Like many of my friends I got a part-time IT job to compliment my full-time uni. After about 3 months into 2nd year it swapped to full-time IT job (VB Programmer, YUCK) and part-time uni. So 5 years later and I've got a year of full-time study left to finish the degree, but I definitely think that real-world IT experience is of greater value to employers. I've now got about 7 years of experience plus a 66% completed CS degree and plenty of respect from my peers. A lot of my uni friends who opted to stick out uni and get the degree are still looking for a good IT job (tech support for an ISP is not what I would consider a positive outcome after 4 years of uni). That said, I think its a different decision for everyone. I think the thing I have going for me in the real-world of IT is that I didn't just do a CS degree coz I couldn't decide what to do. I did it coz I was a fricken website making, game-playing, warez leeching, IRC chatting NERD and I thought i'd need a degree to get my foot in the door. Turns out that my enthusiasm was my most powerful weapon! I continue to keep up with all the latest internet technologies in my own personal time because that's what I love. I'm probably nothing compared to some of the guys on this list who are constantly pushing the boundaries and trying to invent a better wheel. Basically I think if you love the internet and everything IT in general then ppl will notice. You'll also be 'studying' on a daily basis, however for you it will be disguised as FUN! Geez, I don't even know if I made a point here but perhaps something I said will help you with your decision. Just get a job in IT first and see if you cut it... Probably a little more than my $0.02... I'm now very interested to see other members replies! Mt. > -Original Message- > From: Gabriel Vasquez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:09 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? > > > Hi Everyone, I apologize if this is off topic but this is one > of the few > places that I would be able to talk to web designers and get > their opinions > on this. > > I've been attending school to get an Associates degree in > Digital Media. The > program is 18 months and ranges from html to 3d graphics. I'm > already more > than halfway through my courses, but I find that I hit a road > block; I'm not > really learning anything. We are just now getting into > *basic* css, and > javascript in dreamweaver (which I already know how to do, > even though I > prefer to hand-code). The program is now focusing on 3D > animation but that's > really not what I'm into at all. I just want to do web > design: xhtml, css, > ECMAScript/DOM, etc. -- no more, no less. I don't feel I > should spend the > money for something I'm not getting anything out of. > > My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for > me to finish > the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning > what I want to > be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web de
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
eheheh 'before computers were used in design' sounds really old sorry =) I think having a degree is alot better than just having a portfolio. I guess its really what you put in, is what you get out. Like you could still do a degree and just do the bare minimum just keeping up, not putting in any real work, and then wow you have the degree but not an awful lot of experience. 3D might help you out later on, or can you ask to take different subjects perhaps? Tim HillComputer AssociatesGraphic Artisttel: +612 9937 0792fax: +612 9937 0546[EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Universal HeadSent: Thursday, 13 May 2004 5:01 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? Maybe you should look into design education. It sounds like the course you are doing is very technology based. Of course if you want to code, that's fine. But if you want to communicate visually, and understand how to present information using space, type, colour, relationships etc, then that's a whole different ballgame. It was a long time ago, but I did four years of design education before computers were used in design, and I learnt things that seemed very general at the time, but I realise now were a perfect grounding for a design career. It seems that courses now are so eager to get people into using Maya or learning _javascript_ or whatever that they don't actually teach the basics. Man, I really sound like an old fogey don't I? Peter On 13/05/2004, at 4:38 PM, Gabriel Vasquez wrote: Hi Everyone, I apologize if this is off topic but this is one of the few places that I would be able to talk to web designers and get their opinions on this. I've been attending school to get an Associates degree in Digital Media. The program is 18 months and ranges from html to 3d graphics. I'm already more than halfway through my courses, but I find that I hit a road block; I'm not really learning anything. We are just now getting into *basic* css, and _javascript_ in dreamweaver (which I already know how to do, even though I prefer to hand-code). The program is now focusing on 3D animation but that's really not what I'm into at all. I just want to do web design: xhtml, css, ECMAScript/DOM, etc. -- no more, no less. I don't feel I should spend the money for something I'm not getting anything out of. My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for me to finish the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning what I want to be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web design? TIA in advanced for your feedback! Gabriel * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
Maybe you should look into design education. It sounds like the course you are doing is very technology based. Of course if you want to code, that's fine. But if you want to communicate visually, and understand how to present information using space, type, colour, relationships etc, then that's a whole different ballgame. It was a long time ago, but I did four years of design education before computers were used in design, and I learnt things that seemed very general at the time, but I realise now were a perfect grounding for a design career. It seems that courses now are so eager to get people into using Maya or learning Javascript or whatever that they don't actually teach the basics. Man, I really sound like an old fogey don't I? Peter On 13/05/2004, at 4:38 PM, Gabriel Vasquez wrote: Hi Everyone, I apologize if this is off topic but this is one of the few places that I would be able to talk to web designers and get their opinions on this. I've been attending school to get an Associates degree in Digital Media. The program is 18 months and ranges from html to 3d graphics. I'm already more than halfway through my courses, but I find that I hit a road block; I'm not really learning anything. We are just now getting into *basic* css, and javascript in dreamweaver (which I already know how to do, even though I prefer to hand-code). The program is now focusing on 3D animation but that's really not what I'm into at all. I just want to do web design: xhtml, css, ECMAScript/DOM, etc. -- no more, no less. I don't feel I should spend the money for something I'm not getting anything out of. My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for me to finish the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning what I want to be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web design? TIA in advanced for your feedback! Gabriel * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help * Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
Gabriel, You're over halfway through an 18 month course. Finish it. You may no longer learn anything of any technical benefit for your plans for future, but a qualification is invaluable in life due to the absurd rules by which society judges your worth. I have a few qualifications that I figure aren't worth the paper they were printed on, but you can bet that I know where to find those pieces of paper if someone asks me. Do the work necessary to pass (who knows, that information may come in useful later) and spend the rest of your time focusing on what you care about. Which, hopefully, is web standards compliant stuff! Cheers, Lachlan * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
[WSG] Is a degree necessary?
Hi Everyone, I apologize if this is off topic but this is one of the few places that I would be able to talk to web designers and get their opinions on this. I've been attending school to get an Associates degree in Digital Media. The program is 18 months and ranges from html to 3d graphics. I'm already more than halfway through my courses, but I find that I hit a road block; I'm not really learning anything. We are just now getting into *basic* css, and javascript in dreamweaver (which I already know how to do, even though I prefer to hand-code). The program is now focusing on 3D animation but that's really not what I'm into at all. I just want to do web design: xhtml, css, ECMAScript/DOM, etc. -- no more, no less. I don't feel I should spend the money for something I'm not getting anything out of. My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for me to finish the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning what I want to be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web design? TIA in advanced for your feedback! Gabriel * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
