Re: [WSG] alternative to target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1
I use a javascript that run into the ul list links and give them a target="_blank" on fly if someone click it. I know that this may not be the best way, some people wouldn´t know that a new window will open. I try in the some script to use a NW inside of the and only if they click in abbr will open in new window. for now it just give a target="_blank" to specifics links. www.waynext.pt On 25/02/07, Gunlaug Sørtun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ricky Onsman wrote: > When it comes down to it, I think most people (and yes, that means > people using IE) will just left-click on a link. If you want > something particular to happen, you'd better code it in. I think we're going in circles here, and it doesn't look like they are entirely within "best practices" and/or "web standards". Problem: 1: Properly served XHTML 1.1 (as 'application/xhtml+xml') doesn't show up as much in IE. (Shouldn't be any different on an intranet, but maybe it is..? ) 2: Alternatives to target="_blank" is needed because people using IE don't know how to open links in new windows and will just left-click on a link. Solution: 1: On the web most people (and yes, that means people using IE) won't, or at least "should not"[1], see the XHTML 1.1 document at all, so most people won't need to open its links anywhere. 2: If IE users _can_ see the XHTML 1.1 document - regardless of whether its on an intranet or out on the world wide web, then it isn't really following standards anyway. No valid alternative to target="_blank" will improve much on that. 3: If IE is excluded and all is according to standards, then _any_ method that isn't deprecated in the XHTML 1.1 standard, can be used to circumvent that particular standard. Enough alternatives in this thread already. I think I derailed in a curve - somewhere :-) Georg [1]http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-media-types/#summary -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Make it simple for the people -- http://www.artideias.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] alternative to target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1
Ricky Onsman wrote: When it comes down to it, I think most people (and yes, that means people using IE) will just left-click on a link. If you want something particular to happen, you'd better code it in. I think we're going in circles here, and it doesn't look like they are entirely within "best practices" and/or "web standards". Problem: 1: Properly served XHTML 1.1 (as 'application/xhtml+xml') doesn't show up as much in IE. (Shouldn't be any different on an intranet, but maybe it is..? ) 2: Alternatives to target="_blank" is needed because people using IE don't know how to open links in new windows and will just left-click on a link. Solution: 1: On the web most people (and yes, that means people using IE) won't, or at least "should not"[1], see the XHTML 1.1 document at all, so most people won't need to open its links anywhere. 2: If IE users _can_ see the XHTML 1.1 document - regardless of whether its on an intranet or out on the world wide web, then it isn't really following standards anyway. No valid alternative to target="_blank" will improve much on that. 3: If IE is excluded and all is according to standards, then _any_ method that isn't deprecated in the XHTML 1.1 standard, can be used to circumvent that particular standard. Enough alternatives in this thread already. I think I derailed in a curve - somewhere :-) Georg [1]http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-media-types/#summary -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] alternative to target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1
The other alternative is to use Roger Johansson's jstarget. http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200610/opening_new_windows_with_javascript_version_12/ Ricky Onsman wrote: I can't help thinking we're fighting against one of the most basic instructions web users work with: "all you have to do with a link is click on it". I agree that it would be useful if users knew the full capabilities of their software, let alone what their mouse can do. But I don't believe they do. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Gleitzman Sent: Sunday, 25 February 2007 4:14 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] alternative to target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1 Gallagher, Robin wrote: Users of the search engine on my intranet site wold like to have the results open in a new page. Can anyone suggest a valid method to do this in xhtml 1.1? Umm... teach 'em how to use the software? A good browser allows the choice of a new window - or tab - with a modifier key added to the mouse click. If all else fails, or you tell us that they're stuck on IE/Win, then right-click > Open in new window. N ___ omnivision. websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] alternative to target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1
I can't help thinking we're fighting against one of the most basic instructions web users work with: "all you have to do with a link is click on it". I agree that it would be useful if users knew the full capabilities of their software, let alone what their mouse can do. But I don't believe they do. I try to follow a fundamental rule, which is that external links should always open in a new tab or a new window. That way the originating site remains in background and can be found again somewhat more easily than having to know to click on the Back button. Yes, I've read that the Back button accounts for up to 30% of all clicks in a browser, but I've also read that 30% of users don't know what the Back button does. Users rely on the designers and developers to embed instructions in the code so that "it just happens". This was definitely a benefit to target=_new, _blank and _top. The only other way I can see to ensure users do what I intend is to provide explicit instructions: "left click to do this, or right click to do this". I've done this with text that messes up what a site looks like and I've tried putting them in tooltips. In both cases I've had feedback that the user "didn't notice" the instruction. If the aim of eliminating the target=_blank is to empower the user and not force them to do what a designer or developer wants then it succeeds. But if it aims to enhance the user experience, it fails. If it's about not confusing screenreaders then I think we're just swapping one form of inaccessibility for another. When it comes down to it, I think most people (and yes, that means people using IE) will just left-click on a link. If you want something particular to happen, you'd better code it in. Ricky > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Gleitzman > Sent: Sunday, 25 February 2007 4:14 PM > To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org > Subject: Re: [WSG] alternative to target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1 > > Gallagher, Robin wrote: > > > Users of the search engine on my intranet site wold like to > have the > > results open in a new page. Can anyone suggest a valid method to do > > this in xhtml 1.1? > > Umm... teach 'em how to use the software? A good browser > allows the choice of a new window - or tab - with a modifier > key added to the mouse click. If all else fails, or you tell > us that they're stuck on IE/Win, then right-click > Open in > new window. > > N > ___ > omnivision. websight. > http://www.omnivision.com.au/ > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] alternative to target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1
Gallagher, Robin wrote: Users of the search engine on my intranet site wold like to have the results open in a new page. Can anyone suggest a valid method to do this in xhtml 1.1? Umm... teach 'em how to use the software? A good browser allows the choice of a new window - or tab - with a modifier key added to the mouse click. If all else fails, or you tell us that they're stuck on IE/Win, then right-click > Open in new window. N ___ omnivision. websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] alternative to target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1
Users of the search engine on my intranet site wold like to have the results open in a new page. Can anyone suggest a valid method to do this in xhtml 1.1? To my knowledge the valid way of opening link in a new window in XHTML 1.1 is to let user decide whether to open page in current or new window. All modern browsers have this thing in mind e.g. in Firefox you open page in current tab using left button and in new tab using middle button. After all this functionality is within scope of interface and shouldn't be resolved outside of it (how about windowless interface??) - this is the reason why it was removed from specs. -- Mariusz http://www.medikoo.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
