Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Joseph B. Fitzgerald via wsjt-devel]

They clearly did not realize they had a problem.   Even without GPS, manually 
setting the clock via WWV/CHU/JJY is more than sufficient.   I am pretty sure 
they brought HF receivers with them.

de KM1P Joe

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Logging of mixed data if you do QSO with two stations

[Marco Calistri via wsjt-devel]

Yeah!

Undoubtedly he is one of (if not the the) most active contributor for the 
CQRLOG development code.

On Wndows platform I use Log4Om, jointly with WSJT-X and I think that if CQRLOG 
would have a Microsoft Windows version too, probably could get a more frequent 
updates since I think there are more Windows than Linux users around the world.

But this is just my personal point of view.

Regards,

Marco, PY1ZRJ

(Off-Topic terminated here)


Inviato da Outlook per Android

From: Brian Morrison via wsjt-devel 
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 1:36:37 PM
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
Cc: Brian Morrison 
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Logging of mixed data if you do QSO with two stations

On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 14:26:07 +
Marco Calistri via wsjt-devel  wrote:

> Hi Brian,
>
> Yes, i know Saku, he helped me in many occasions.
>
> Since this is not a blocking issue for me but just a random and not
> important one, occuring only under particular usage of the FT8 QSO
> (trying to complete 2 QSO almost at the same time) I don't feel me
> comfortable to asking Saku to resolve it.
>
> In any case him is participating on the present list as user, so
> supposedly he has read this topic already.
>
> I'm quite sure that such behavior it being easily reproducible if you
> try to do same actions I've described on my first email.

I see that there are 17 pull requests on the CQRLog git page, many by
Saku so perhaps we will see a 2.6.1 version before long.

--

Brian  G8SEZ



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Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Fred Carvalho via wsjt-devel]

Hi Reino

+I think your answer is the closest to the target +

We agree that if the computer clock is close to 15seconds time
difference EVEN and ODD would be crossed. If that happened with 2 computers
and for 10+ days, it is explained, but it is a big coincidence. I would
expect a variable clock difference and not a steady one.

Regarding the QSO being completed by Hounds sending reports above 1000Hz
with WSJTx, it is new to me. I thought the QSY down below 1000Hz was
mandatory. I need to read  JT's paper about F/H again. However in my mind I
was led to believe that the QSY below 1000Hz was mandatory. Anyway now it
is explained.

In reality the clock issue produced the following issues:

- With the FOX transmitting in ODD and with continuous advertising by
Pilots that it was F/H, people turned-on their F/H in their WSJT software
and transmitted blindly on ODD, the same period FOX was transmitting. WSJTx
does not allow FOXes to use EVEN. Lots of QSOs were lost because of that
and produced a big increase of QRM.

- Those who used JTDX and understood the situation,  could TX F/H in EVEN
periods and were OK. However it was not obvious at first glance.

- Those who used normal FT8 were eventually successful like me . But
because the report was transmitted in the same calling frequency (above
1000Hz), which could be occupied by other callers , it is likely that Qs
were also lost.


The bottom line is: FT8 QSO numbers  in 3Y0J DXP were not maximized. On the
contrary. Many did not work them.
 DXPs in the future must pay good attention to 3Y0J's lessons in order to
avoid low FT8 QSOs rate and loss of QSOs.

Fred PY2XB




Hi Fred,
I am using only general information about these issues.
a) If the PC cock is really off by 14 s, then simply odd and even
sequences are crossed. No possibility to see that within wsjt-x.
b) The QSy below 1000 Hz is only improving possibility to have less
QRM, but the program itself does not care where you are sending your
messages.

73, Reino OH3mA


Em qua., 15 de fev. de 2023 às 14:05, Fred Carvalho 
escreveu:

> I have read the answers. Thanks to all.
>
> Commenting posts and/or answering questions: No I have not worked Pirate,
> although I have seen them. I have always looked at antenna direction and
> FOX behavior before calling. So my QSOs were confirmed correctly.
> To 5p1kzx Michael: We all assumed that they were using Multistream with
> another program - MSHV for instance, but one 3Y0J operator, after returning
> to the boat, informed me that they were using WSJTx.
> I also think that a 750K DXpedition could afford a GPS sync device that
> costs a few dollars.
> Yes, other operations that will do "real" F/H need to learn from these
> lessons, indeed.
>
>
> However I would like to stick on why and how things happened that caused
> so much confusion:
>
> - Exactly 15 seconds time shift would explain the Fox transmitting in
> ODD. However they had two computers and would the time difference be the
> same and constant on both computers for 10+ days ? As I stated, the worst
> sync I saw was 0.4s.
> It is very strange  time difference to stay constant exactly 15s during
> 10+ days.
> On the other hand, erratic time sync would lead to bigger messes because
> people would not be able to decode them. They were decodable every time I
> heard them and I heard them everyday since they started FT8.
>
> - Why/How Fox accepted reports above 1000Hz and concluded QSO? I did my
> QSOs without using the F/H function. I was in NORMAL FT8 all the time. I
> sent reports in different offsets above 1000Hz. Others did the same. In
> fact many of us were sure they were not using WSJTx. However it was
> confirmed that they were.. <== this one nobody commented
>
> Any thoughts ? Fred PY2XB
>
>
>
> Em qua., 15 de fev. de 2023 às 10:15, Fred Carvalho 
> escreveu:
>
>> GM to all
>>
>> *This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*
>>
>> During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that they were
>> using WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was  most of the time in ODD
>> periods and accepted reports in any spot in the channel. QSY below 1000Hz
>> was not necessary. My QSOs with them were always like that. It took me some
>> time to understand how to work them, which I think was the same to most of
>> the callers. BTW,  I have never seen FOX out of sync. The worst that I can
>> remember was 0.4s.
>>
>> Many thought – myself included- that they were not using WSJTx, but some
>> other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the operators
>> confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.
>>
>> After the expedition they have stated that : “ *We had issues  with the
>> FT8 due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock was 14
>> seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it
>> was even.*”
>>
>> Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks would have
>> prevented the problem above.
>>
>> So my questions to the developers are:
>>
>> a)

Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Glenn Williams via wsjt-devel]

Hi All,

I use Meinberg NTP with Windows 10.  About two weeks ago with V2.6.1, I 
do NOT remember if it was with 3Y0J, I found that my FT8 RX DECODE 
matched the required time line position, about 13-14.9 seconds after the 
beginning of the correct period (I believe it was EVEN).  But at the 
same time my TX was starting like 7-8 seconds LATE (per the red light on 
the rig) BUT the reported time for the beginning of TX on the screen was 
reported as "right on" e.g. 15 or 45 (in ODD). And it was being reported 
late also. I was also NOT making any Qs. I figured that the TX "daemon" 
was "spinning" late, so I rebooted the computer and started everything 
up again (also restarted Meinberg NTP) and both RX and TX were in the 
correct DT error position and I was making Qs again.


I don't know if there really is a TX "daemon" in WSJT-X FT8.  I did not 
report this because it was during 3Y0J activity and I was, you might 
say, busy.


-73, Glenn, AF8C

On 2/15/2023 11:52 AM, 5p1kzx Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:

Hi All

If a station that looks like F/H calls 15/45 it ain't no Fox/Hound 
station. It's a MSHV Multislot/channel. Because a station is TXing on 
more than one channel at the same time doesn't make it a Fox/Hound station.


73 de 5p1kzx Michael

Den 15-02-2023 kl. 17:04 skrev David Kjellquist via wsjt-devel:


Unlike WSJT-X, JTDX software allows F&H on either odd or even

On 2/15/2023 10:44 AM, Ron WV4P via wsjt-devel wrote:
Lots of the people that got Clublog confirmations worked them in the 
Wrong time Slot. So the issue was real.


Ron, WV4P

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 9:42 AM Palle Preben-Hansen, OZ1RH via 
wsjt-devel  wrote:


Fred, there were many 3Y0J pirates on, maybe you worked one of them?

73, Palle, OZ1RH.


Message: 1
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 10:15:14 -0300
From: Fred Carvalho 
To: WSJT software development
, Joe
        Taylor 
Subject: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation
Message-ID:
   


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

GM to all

*This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*

During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that
they were
using WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was most of
the time in ODD
periods and accepted reports in any spot in the channel. QSY
below 1000Hz
was not necessary. My QSOs with them were always like that.
It took me some
time to understand how to work them, which I think was the
same to most of
the callers. BTW,  I have never seen FOX out of sync. The
worst that I can
remember was 0.4s.

Many thought ? myself included- that they were not using
WSJTx, but some
other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the
operators
confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.

After the expedition they have stated that : ? *We had
issues  with the FT8
due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our
clock was 14
seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while
we thought it
was even.*?

Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks
would have
prevented the problem above.

So my questions to the developers are:

a)      Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead
them to TX in
ODD periods as FOX ?

b)      How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the
Hound to
finalize the QSO with them?

This is very intriguing to many of us. Some clarification on
what happened
is very much appreciated

Thanks Fred PY2XB

-- 
Fred - PY2XB


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8 band DXCC, 317 countries confirmed (Mixed , current)
Hamshack Hotline 


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Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Jon Anhold via wsjt-devel]

JT Sync will get you close: http://www.dxshell.com/jtsync.html

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 12:38 PM Glenn Williams via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Perhaps there "needs to be" some world wide FT8 beacon stations on 24/7,
> where the beacons are known to have accurate time. WSJT-X, upon the
> operator tuning to the beacon(s), can report a time difference error, or
> perhaps even resync the local clock to the beacon in lieu of WWV's or
> CHU's etc. and in lieu of proper operating with an internal time sync
> app such as Dimension 4 or Meinberg NTP (and others).
>
> What time app was 3Y0J using?
>
> --73, Glenn, AF8C
>
> On 2/15/2023 12:05 PM, Fred Carvalho via wsjt-devel wrote:
> > I have read the answers. Thanks to all.
> >
> > Commenting posts and/or answering questions: No I have not worked
> > Pirate, although I have seen them. I have always looked at antenna
> > direction and FOX behavior before calling. So my QSOs were confirmed
> > correctly.
> > To 5p1kzx Michael: We all assumed that they were using Multistream with
> > another program - MSHV for instance, but one 3Y0J operator, after
> > returning to the boat, informed me that they were using WSJTx.
> > I also think that a 750K DXpedition could afford a GPS sync device that
> > costs a few dollars.
> > Yes, other operations that will do "real" F/H need to learn from these
> > lessons, indeed.
> >
> >
> > However I would like to stick on why and how things happened that caused
> > so much confusion:
> >
> > - Exactly 15 seconds time shift would explain the Fox transmitting in
> > ODD. However they had two computers and would the time difference be the
> > same and constant on both computers for 10+ days ? As I stated, the
> > worst sync I saw was 0.4s.
> > It is very strange  time difference to stay constant exactly 15s during
> > 10+ days.
> > On the other hand, erratic time sync would lead to bigger messes because
> > people would not be able to decode them. They were decodable every time
> > I heard them and I heard them everyday since they started FT8.
> >
> > - Why/How Fox accepted reports above 1000Hz and concluded QSO? I did my
> > QSOs without using the F/H function. I was in NORMAL FT8 all the time. I
> > sent reports in different offsets above 1000Hz. Others did the same. In
> > fact many of us were sure they were not using WSJTx. However it was
> > confirmed that they were.. <== this one nobody commented
> >
> > Any thoughts ? Fred PY2XB
> >
> >
> >
> > Em qua., 15 de fev. de 2023 às 10:15, Fred Carvalho
> > mailto:fred.py...@gmail.com>> escreveu:
> >
> > GM to all
> >
> > *This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*
> >
> > During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that they
> > were using WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was  most of the
> > time in ODD periods and accepted reports in any spot in the channel.
> > QSY below 1000Hz was not necessary. My QSOs with them were always
> > like that. It took me some time to understand how to work them,
> > which I think was the same to most of the callers. BTW,  I have
> > never seen FOX out of sync. The worst that I can remember was 0.4s.
> >
> > Many thought – myself included- that they were not using WSJTx, but
> > some other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the
> > operators confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.
> >
> > After the expedition they have stated that : “ *We had issues  with
> > the FT8 due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our
> > clock was 14 seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd,
> > while we thought it was even.*”
> >
> > Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks would
> > have prevented the problem above.
> >
> > So my questions to the developers are:
> >
> > a)Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead them to TX in
> > ODD periods as FOX ?
> >
> > b)How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the Hound to
> > finalize the QSO with them?
> >
> > This is very intriguing to many of us. Some clarification on what
> > happened is very much appreciated
> >
> > Thanks Fred PY2XB
> >
> >
> > --
> > Fred - PY2XB
> >
> > PY2FXH, PY2FXH/W2, PY2FXH/9, PY2XB/0, F/PY2XB, ZX2XB, PT7BXB,
> > PY2XB/PY0F, PQ0F , VP5/PY2XB, PW2IO
> > (SA-071), ZX8W
> >  (SA-060), PY2XB/1 (SA-029), 8P9XB
> > , PQ8XB
> >  (SA-045), ZX2S
> >  (SA-028), PR7XB W4/PY2XB, 3D2XB
> > , PY22XB
> > ,PY0FX, W2/PY2XB, W9/PY2XB, VE3/PY2XB,
> > PY2XB/5
> >
> > *Team member** :* PW2M  (SA-071), PX8J
> >  (SA-041), T30PY - T30SIX
> > 

Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Glenn Williams via wsjt-devel]

Perhaps there "needs to be" some world wide FT8 beacon stations on 24/7, 
where the beacons are known to have accurate time. WSJT-X, upon the 
operator tuning to the beacon(s), can report a time difference error, or 
perhaps even resync the local clock to the beacon in lieu of WWV's or 
CHU's etc. and in lieu of proper operating with an internal time sync 
app such as Dimension 4 or Meinberg NTP (and others).


What time app was 3Y0J using?

--73, Glenn, AF8C

On 2/15/2023 12:05 PM, Fred Carvalho via wsjt-devel wrote:

I have read the answers. Thanks to all.

Commenting posts and/or answering questions: No I have not worked 
Pirate, although I have seen them. I have always looked at antenna 
direction and FOX behavior before calling. So my QSOs were confirmed 
correctly.
To 5p1kzx Michael: We all assumed that they were using Multistream with 
another program - MSHV for instance, but one 3Y0J operator, after 
returning to the boat, informed me that they were using WSJTx.
I also think that a 750K DXpedition could afford a GPS sync device that 
costs a few dollars.
Yes, other operations that will do "real" F/H need to learn from these 
lessons, indeed.



However I would like to stick on why and how things happened that caused 
so much confusion:


- Exactly 15 seconds time shift would explain the Fox transmitting in  
ODD. However they had two computers and would the time difference be the 
same and constant on both computers for 10+ days ? As I stated, the 
worst sync I saw was 0.4s.
It is very strange  time difference to stay constant exactly 15s during 
10+ days.
On the other hand, erratic time sync would lead to bigger messes because 
people would not be able to decode them. They were decodable every time 
I heard them and I heard them everyday since they started FT8.


- Why/How Fox accepted reports above 1000Hz and concluded QSO? I did my 
QSOs without using the F/H function. I was in NORMAL FT8 all the time. I 
sent reports in different offsets above 1000Hz. Others did the same. In 
fact many of us were sure they were not using WSJTx. However it was 
confirmed that they were.. <== this one nobody commented


Any thoughts ? Fred PY2XB



Em qua., 15 de fev. de 2023 às 10:15, Fred Carvalho 
mailto:fred.py...@gmail.com>> escreveu:


GM to all

*This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*

During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that they
were using WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was  most of the
time in ODD periods and accepted reports in any spot in the channel.
QSY below 1000Hz was not necessary. My QSOs with them were always
like that. It took me some time to understand how to work them,
which I think was the same to most of the callers. BTW,  I have
never seen FOX out of sync. The worst that I can remember was 0.4s.

Many thought – myself included- that they were not using WSJTx, but
some other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the
operators confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.

After the expedition they have stated that : “ *We had issues  with
the FT8 due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our
clock was 14 seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd,
while we thought it was even.*”

Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks would
have prevented the problem above.

So my questions to the developers are:

a)Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead them to TX in
ODD periods as FOX ?

b)How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the Hound to
finalize the QSO with them?

This is very intriguing to many of us. Some clarification on what
happened is very much appreciated

Thanks Fred PY2XB


-- 
Fred - PY2XB


PY2FXH, PY2FXH/W2, PY2FXH/9, PY2XB/0, F/PY2XB, ZX2XB, PT7BXB,
PY2XB/PY0F, PQ0F , VP5/PY2XB, PW2IO
(SA-071), ZX8W
 (SA-060), PY2XB/1 (SA-029), 8P9XB
, PQ8XB
 (SA-045), ZX2S
 (SA-028), PR7XB W4/PY2XB, 3D2XB
, PY22XB
,PY0FX, W2/PY2XB, W9/PY2XB, VE3/PY2XB,
PY2XB/5

*Team member** :* PW2M  (SA-071), PX8J
 (SA-041), T30PY - T30SIX
, PT0S , 9M0W




--
Fred - PY2XB

PY2FXH, PY2FXH/W2, PY2FXH/9, PY2XB/0, F/PY2XB, ZX2XB, PT7BXB, 
PY2XB/PY0F, PQ0F , VP5/PY2XB, PW2IO 
(SA-071), ZX8W 
 (SA-060), PY2XB/1 (SA-029), 8P9XB 
, PQ8XB 
 (SA-045), ZX2S 
 (SA-028), PR7XB W4/PY2XB, 3D2XB 
, P

Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[jarmo via wsjt-devel]

Wed, 15 Feb 2023 11:04:03 -0500
David Kjellquist via wsjt-devel 
kirjoitti:

> Unlike WSJT-X, JTDX software allows F&H on either odd or even

I gor answer from pilot Steve...

"Hi Jarmo,

Sorry I could not answer your email sooner. Too many emails and text
messages. They say they were using WSJT-X software. They had a sequence
problem with one of their laptops. It turned out to be a clock issue
which was not obvious to the operator. All settings appeared to be
correct but it was transmitting on the Odd rather than the Even."

Jarmo, oh1mrr


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Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Fred Carvalho via wsjt-devel]

I have read the answers. Thanks to all.

Commenting posts and/or answering questions: No I have not worked Pirate,
although I have seen them. I have always looked at antenna direction and
FOX behavior before calling. So my QSOs were confirmed correctly.
To 5p1kzx Michael: We all assumed that they were using Multistream with
another program - MSHV for instance, but one 3Y0J operator, after returning
to the boat, informed me that they were using WSJTx.
I also think that a 750K DXpedition could afford a GPS sync device that
costs a few dollars.
Yes, other operations that will do "real" F/H need to learn from these
lessons, indeed.


However I would like to stick on why and how things happened that caused so
much confusion:

- Exactly 15 seconds time shift would explain the Fox transmitting in  ODD.
However they had two computers and would the time difference be the same
and constant on both computers for 10+ days ? As I stated, the worst sync I
saw was 0.4s.
It is very strange  time difference to stay constant exactly 15s during 10+
days.
On the other hand, erratic time sync would lead to bigger messes because
people would not be able to decode them. They were decodable every time I
heard them and I heard them everyday since they started FT8.

- Why/How Fox accepted reports above 1000Hz and concluded QSO? I did my
QSOs without using the F/H function. I was in NORMAL FT8 all the time. I
sent reports in different offsets above 1000Hz. Others did the same. In
fact many of us were sure they were not using WSJTx. However it was
confirmed that they were.. <== this one nobody commented

Any thoughts ? Fred PY2XB



Em qua., 15 de fev. de 2023 às 10:15, Fred Carvalho 
escreveu:

> GM to all
>
> *This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*
>
> During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that they were
> using WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was  most of the time in ODD
> periods and accepted reports in any spot in the channel. QSY below 1000Hz
> was not necessary. My QSOs with them were always like that. It took me some
> time to understand how to work them, which I think was the same to most of
> the callers. BTW,  I have never seen FOX out of sync. The worst that I can
> remember was 0.4s.
>
> Many thought – myself included- that they were not using WSJTx, but some
> other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the operators
> confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.
>
> After the expedition they have stated that : “ *We had issues  with the
> FT8 due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock was 14
> seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it
> was even.*”
>
> Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks would have
> prevented the problem above.
>
> So my questions to the developers are:
>
> a)  Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead them to TX in
> ODD periods as FOX ?
>
> b)  How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the Hound to
> finalize the QSO with them?
>
> This is very intriguing to many of us. Some clarification on what happened
> is very much appreciated
>
> Thanks Fred PY2XB
>
> --
> Fred - PY2XB
>
> PY2FXH, PY2FXH/W2, PY2FXH/9, PY2XB/0, F/PY2XB, ZX2XB, PT7BXB, PY2XB/PY0F,
> PQ0F , VP5/PY2XB, PW2IO
> (SA-071), ZX8W  
> (SA-060),
> PY2XB/1 (SA-029), 8P9XB , PQ8XB
>  (SA-045), ZX2S  
> (SA-028),
> PR7XB W4/PY2XB, 3D2XB , PY22XB
> ,PY0FX, W2/PY2XB, W9/PY2XB, VE3/PY2XB,
> PY2XB/5
>
> *Team member** :* PW2M  (SA-071), PX8J
>  (SA-041), T30PY - T30SIX
> , PT0S , 9M0W
> 
>
>

-- 
Fred - PY2XB

PY2FXH, PY2FXH/W2, PY2FXH/9, PY2XB/0, F/PY2XB, ZX2XB, PT7BXB, PY2XB/PY0F,
PQ0F , VP5/PY2XB, PW2IO
(SA-071), ZX8W
 (SA-060),
PY2XB/1 (SA-029), 8P9XB , PQ8XB
 (SA-045), ZX2S
 (SA-028),
PR7XB W4/PY2XB, 3D2XB , PY22XB
,PY0FX, W2/PY2XB, W9/PY2XB, VE3/PY2XB, PY2XB/5

*Team member** :* PW2M  (SA-071), PX8J
 (SA-041), T30PY - T30SIX 
, PT0S , 9M0W 
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Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Reino Talarmo via wsjt-devel]

> “ We had issues  with the FT8 due to we did not have any device to sync 
> against, and our clock was 14 seconds off - which meant we at some time were 
> TX odd, while we thought it was even.”

>Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks would have 
>prevented the problem above.

>So my questions to the developers are:

a)  Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead them to TX in ODD 
periods as FOX ?

b)  How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the Hound to finalize 
the QSO with them?

Hi Fred,
I am using only general information about these issues.
a) If the PC cock is really off by 14 s, then simply odd and even sequences are 
crossed. No possibility to see that within wsjt-x.
b) The QSy below 1000 Hz is only improving possibility to have less QRM, but 
the program itself does not care where you are sending your messages. 

73, Reino OH3mA

 

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Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Dwayne Sinclair via wsjt-devel]

I agree with you 100% but that does not take away the fact there was abundant 
confusion for many ops. Just watching this play out, you would see almost the 
same amount of ops transmitting odd as well as even attempting to respond. 

In my humble opinion, they should have been using F&H and even. If they decide 
not to use F&H, transmit even anyway. F&H would have had added benefit of 
keeping their TX’s clear of other ops. What I saw on my waterfall was an 
odd/even everyone everywhere.  

73 de Dwayne AB6A

> On Feb 15, 2023, at 8:52 AM, 5p1kzx Michael via wsjt-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi All
> 
> If a station that looks like F/H calls 15/45 it ain't no Fox/Hound station. 
> It's a MSHV Multislot/channel. Because a station is TXing on more than one 
> channel at the same time doesn't make it a Fox/Hound station.
> 
> 73 de 5p1kzx Michael
> 
> Den 15-02-2023 kl. 17:04 skrev David Kjellquist via wsjt-devel:
>> Unlike WSJT-X, JTDX software allows F&H on either odd or even
>> 
>> On 2/15/2023 10:44 AM, Ron WV4P via wsjt-devel wrote:
>>> Lots of the people that got Clublog confirmations worked them in the Wrong 
>>> time Slot. So the issue was real. 
>>> 
>>> Ron, WV4P 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 9:42 AM Palle Preben-Hansen, OZ1RH via wsjt-devel 
>>> >> > wrote:
 Fred, there were many 3Y0J pirates on, maybe you worked one of them?
 
 73, Palle, OZ1RH.
 
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 10:15:14 -0300
> From: Fred Carvalho mailto:fred.py...@gmail.com>>
> To: WSJT software development  >, Joe
> Taylor mailto:j...@princeton.edu>>
> Subject: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation
> Message-ID:
> 
>  >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> GM to all
> 
> *This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*
> 
> During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that they were
> using WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was  most of the time in 
> ODD
> periods and accepted reports in any spot in the channel. QSY below 1000Hz
> was not necessary. My QSOs with them were always like that. It took me 
> some
> time to understand how to work them, which I think was the same to most of
> the callers. BTW,  I have never seen FOX out of sync. The worst that I can
> remember was 0.4s.
> 
> Many thought ? myself included- that they were not using WSJTx, but some
> other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the operators
> confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.
> 
> After the expedition they have stated that : ? *We had issues  with the 
> FT8
> due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock was 14
> seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it
> was even.*?
> 
> Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks would have
> prevented the problem above.
> 
> So my questions to the developers are:
> 
> a)  Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead them to TX in
> ODD periods as FOX ?
> 
> b)  How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the Hound to
> finalize the QSO with them?
> 
> This is very intriguing to many of us. Some clarification on what happened
> is very much appreciated
> 
> Thanks Fred PY2XB
> 
> -- 
> Fred - PY2XB
 ___
 wsjt-devel mailing list
 wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> wsjt-devel mailing list
>>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>> -- 
>> Dave WB5NHL
>> 8 band DXCC, 317 countries confirmed (Mixed , current)
>> Hamshack Hotline 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[5p1kzx Michael via wsjt-devel]

Hi All

If a station that looks like F/H calls 15/45 it ain't no Fox/Hound 
station. It's a MSHV Multislot/channel. Because a station is TXing on 
more than one channel at the same time doesn't make it a Fox/Hound station.


73 de 5p1kzx Michael

Den 15-02-2023 kl. 17:04 skrev David Kjellquist via wsjt-devel:


Unlike WSJT-X, JTDX software allows F&H on either odd or even

On 2/15/2023 10:44 AM, Ron WV4P via wsjt-devel wrote:
Lots of the people that got Clublog confirmations worked them in the 
Wrong time Slot. So the issue was real.


Ron, WV4P

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 9:42 AM Palle Preben-Hansen, OZ1RH via 
wsjt-devel  wrote:


Fred, there were many 3Y0J pirates on, maybe you worked one of them?

73, Palle, OZ1RH.


Message: 1
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 10:15:14 -0300
From: Fred Carvalho 
To: WSJT software development
, Joe
        Taylor 
Subject: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation
Message-ID:
       

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

GM to all

*This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*

During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that
they were
using WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was most of
the time in ODD
periods and accepted reports in any spot in the channel. QSY
below 1000Hz
was not necessary. My QSOs with them were always like that.
It took me some
time to understand how to work them, which I think was the
same to most of
the callers. BTW,  I have never seen FOX out of sync. The
worst that I can
remember was 0.4s.

Many thought ? myself included- that they were not using
WSJTx, but some
other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the
operators
confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.

After the expedition they have stated that : ? *We had
issues  with the FT8
due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our
clock was 14
seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while
we thought it
was even.*?

Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks
would have
prevented the problem above.

So my questions to the developers are:

a)      Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead
them to TX in
ODD periods as FOX ?

b)      How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the
Hound to
finalize the QSO with them?

This is very intriguing to many of us. Some clarification on
what happened
is very much appreciated

Thanks Fred PY2XB

-- 
Fred - PY2XB


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Dave WB5NHL
8 band DXCC, 317 countries confirmed (Mixed , current)
Hamshack Hotline 


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Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Dwayne Sinclair via wsjt-devel]

There is no question the Expedition messed up with F&H. Simple as that. Add it 
to the list of lessons learned for subsequent expeditions.

Regards Dwayne AB6A

> On Feb 15, 2023, at 8:04 AM, David Kjellquist via wsjt-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> Unlike WSJT-X, JTDX software allows F&H on either odd or even
> 
> On 2/15/2023 10:44 AM, Ron WV4P via wsjt-devel wrote:
>> Lots of the people that got Clublog confirmations worked them in the Wrong 
>> time Slot. So the issue was real. 
>> 
>> Ron, WV4P 
>> 
>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 9:42 AM Palle Preben-Hansen, OZ1RH via wsjt-devel 
>> mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>> 
>> wrote:
>>> Fred, there were many 3Y0J pirates on, maybe you worked one of them?
>>> 
>>> 73, Palle, OZ1RH.
>>> 
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 10:15:14 -0300
 From: Fred Carvalho mailto:fred.py...@gmail.com>>
 To: WSJT software development >>> >, Joe
 Taylor mailto:j...@princeton.edu>>
 Subject: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation
 Message-ID:
 
 >>> >
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
 
 GM to all
 
 *This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*
 
 During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that they were
 using WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was  most of the time in ODD
 periods and accepted reports in any spot in the channel. QSY below 1000Hz
 was not necessary. My QSOs with them were always like that. It took me some
 time to understand how to work them, which I think was the same to most of
 the callers. BTW,  I have never seen FOX out of sync. The worst that I can
 remember was 0.4s.
 
 Many thought ? myself included- that they were not using WSJTx, but some
 other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the operators
 confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.
 
 After the expedition they have stated that : ? *We had issues  with the FT8
 due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock was 14
 seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it
 was even.*?
 
 Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks would have
 prevented the problem above.
 
 So my questions to the developers are:
 
 a)  Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead them to TX in
 ODD periods as FOX ?
 
 b)  How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the Hound to
 finalize the QSO with them?
 
 This is very intriguing to many of us. Some clarification on what happened
 is very much appreciated
 
 Thanks Fred PY2XB
 
 -- 
 Fred - PY2XB
>>> ___
>>> wsjt-devel mailing list
>>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> wsjt-devel mailing list
>> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
> -- 
> Dave WB5NHL
> 8 band DXCC, 317 countries confirmed (Mixed , current)
> Hamshack Hotline 
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Logging of mixed data if you do QSO with two stations

[Brian Morrison via wsjt-devel]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 14:26:07 +
Marco Calistri via wsjt-devel  wrote:

> Hi Brian,
> 
> Yes, i know Saku, he helped me in many occasions.
> 
> Since this is not a blocking issue for me but just a random and not
> important one, occuring only under particular usage of the FT8 QSO
> (trying to complete 2 QSO almost at the same time) I don't feel me
> comfortable to asking Saku to resolve it.
> 
> In any case him is participating on the present list as user, so
> supposedly he has read this topic already.
> 
> I'm quite sure that such behavior it being easily reproducible if you
> try to do same actions I've described on my first email.

I see that there are 17 pull requests on the CQRLog git page, many by
Saku so perhaps we will see a 2.6.1 version before long.

-- 

Brian  G8SEZ



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Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[David Kjellquist via wsjt-devel]

Unlike WSJT-X, JTDX software allows F&H on either odd or even

On 2/15/2023 10:44 AM, Ron WV4P via wsjt-devel wrote:
Lots of the people that got Clublog confirmations worked them in the 
Wrong time Slot. So the issue was real.


Ron, WV4P

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 9:42 AM Palle Preben-Hansen, OZ1RH via 
wsjt-devel  wrote:


Fred, there were many 3Y0J pirates on, maybe you worked one of them?

73, Palle, OZ1RH.


Message: 1
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 10:15:14 -0300
From: Fred Carvalho 
To: WSJT software development
, Joe
        Taylor 
Subject: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation
Message-ID:
       

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

GM to all

*This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*

During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that
they were
using WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was  most of
the time in ODD
periods and accepted reports in any spot in the channel. QSY
below 1000Hz
was not necessary. My QSOs with them were always like that. It
took me some
time to understand how to work them, which I think was the
same to most of
the callers. BTW,  I have never seen FOX out of sync. The
worst that I can
remember was 0.4s.

Many thought ? myself included- that they were not using
WSJTx, but some
other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the
operators
confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.

After the expedition they have stated that : ? *We had issues 
with the FT8
due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our
clock was 14
seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while
we thought it
was even.*?

Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks
would have
prevented the problem above.

So my questions to the developers are:

a)      Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead
them to TX in
ODD periods as FOX ?

b)      How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the
Hound to
finalize the QSO with them?

This is very intriguing to many of us. Some clarification on
what happened
is very much appreciated

Thanks Fred PY2XB

-- 
Fred - PY2XB


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8 band DXCC, 317 countries confirmed (Mixed , current)
Hamshack Hotline 
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Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Bill Lederer via wsjt-devel]

> nobody had a GPS time sync (which I find almost unbelievable).

Boggles the mind.

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 10:20 AM Black Michael via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> TimeFudge will not correct a 15-second error.
>
> Their clock was apparently 15 seconds off and nobody had a GPS time sync
> (which I find almost unbelievable).
>
> Heck...my watch I've had for 50 years is more accurate than that and
> TimeFudge would have fine-tuned it.
>
> Mike W9MDB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 10:06:58 AM CST, Henryk Majcher via
> wsjt-devel  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Fred
>
> The software "TimeFudge" by Mike W9MDB fixed such a problem.
> This is time synchronisation to other stations (they have accurate time).
> The DX expedition does not need GPS or the internet to do time
> synchronisation.
>
> 73
> Henryk  SP3E
>
> śr., 15 lut 2023 o 13:22 Fred Carvalho via wsjt-devel <
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> napisał(a):
> > GM to all
> >
> > *This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*
> >
> > During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that they were
> using WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was  most of the time in ODD
> periods and accepted reports in any spot in the channel. QSY below 1000Hz
> was not necessary. My QSOs with them were always like that. It took me some
> time to understand how to work them, which I think was the same to most of
> the callers. BTW,  I have never seen FOX out of sync. The worst that I can
> remember was 0.4s.
> >
> > Many thought – myself included- that they were not using WSJTx, but some
> other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the operators
> confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.
> >
> > After the expedition they have stated that : “ We had issues  with the
> FT8 due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock was 14
> seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it
> was even.”
> >
> > Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks would have
> prevented the problem above.
> >
> > So my questions to the developers are:
> >
> > a)  Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead them to TX in
> ODD periods as FOX ?
> >
> > b)  How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the Hound to
> finalize the QSO with them?
> >
> > This is very intriguing to many of us. Some clarification on what
> happened is very much appreciated
> >
> > Thanks Fred PY2XB
> >
> > --
> > Fred - PY2XB
> >
> >
> > PY2FXH, PY2FXH/W2, PY2FXH/9, PY2XB/0, F/PY2XB, ZX2XB, PT7BXB,
> PY2XB/PY0F, PQ0F, VP5/PY2XB, PW2IO (SA-071), ZX8W (SA-060), PY2XB/1
> (SA-029), 8P9XB, PQ8XB (SA-045), ZX2S (SA-028), PR7XB
> W4/PY2XB, 3D2XB, PY22XB,PY0FX, W2/PY2XB, W9/PY2XB, VE3/PY2XB, PY2XB/5
> > Team member : PW2M (SA-071), PX8J (SA-041), T30PY - T30SIX, PT0S, 9M0W
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
> >
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Black Michael via wsjt-devel]

TimeFudge will not correct a 15-second error.

Their clock was apparently 15 seconds off and nobody had a GPS time sync (which 
I find almost unbelievable).

Heck...my watch I've had for 50 years is more accurate than that and TimeFudge 
would have fine-tuned it.

Mike W9MDB







On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 10:06:58 AM CST, Henryk Majcher via 
wsjt-devel  wrote: 





Hi Fred

The software "TimeFudge" by Mike W9MDB fixed such a problem.
This is time synchronisation to other stations (they have accurate time).
The DX expedition does not need GPS or the internet to do time synchronisation.

73
Henryk  SP3E

śr., 15 lut 2023 o 13:22 Fred Carvalho via wsjt-devel 
 napisał(a):
> GM to all
> 
> *This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*
> 
> During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that they were using 
> WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was  most of the time in ODD periods 
> and accepted reports in any spot in the channel. QSY below 1000Hz was not 
> necessary. My QSOs with them were always like that. It took me some time to 
> understand how to work them, which I think was the same to most of the 
> callers. BTW,  I have never seen FOX out of sync. The worst that I can 
> remember was 0.4s.
> 
> Many thought – myself included- that they were not using WSJTx, but some 
> other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the operators 
> confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.
> 
> After the expedition they have stated that : “ We had issues  with the FT8 
> due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock was 14 
> seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it 
> was even.”
> 
> Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks would have 
> prevented the problem above.
> 
> So my questions to the developers are:
> 
> a)  Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead them to TX in ODD 
> periods as FOX ?
> 
> b)  How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the Hound to 
> finalize the QSO with them?
> 
> This is very intriguing to many of us. Some clarification on what happened is 
> very much appreciated
> 
> Thanks Fred PY2XB
> 
> -- 
> Fred - PY2XB
> 
> 
> PY2FXH, PY2FXH/W2, PY2FXH/9, PY2XB/0, F/PY2XB, ZX2XB, PT7BXB, PY2XB/PY0F, 
> PQ0F, VP5/PY2XB, PW2IO (SA-071), ZX8W (SA-060), PY2XB/1 (SA-029), 8P9XB, 
> PQ8XB (SA-045), ZX2S (SA-028), PR7XB W4/PY2XB, 3D2XB, PY22XB,PY0FX, W2/PY2XB, 
> W9/PY2XB, VE3/PY2XB, PY2XB/5
> Team member : PW2M (SA-071), PX8J (SA-041), T30PY - T30SIX, PT0S, 9M0W
> 
> 
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Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Leslie L via wsjt-devel]

Hi all,

During the operation, I contracted Steve Hauss, who is a Pilot for 3YOJ
concerning the issue.  His response is below:

Hi Leslie, originally the group was having trouble adjusting their
fox/hound. Now they’ve got it working properly. So they would be TX even in
foxhound mode. If you are using.WSJT-X you don’t need to do anything other
than put the program into foxhound mode. That should work. 73, N2AJ

Les
W2LPL




Message: 1
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 10:15:14 -0300
From: Fred Carvalho 
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net@gmail.com >
To: WSJT software development <>, Joe
Taylor 
Subject: [wsjt-devel]


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GM to all

*This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*

During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that they were
using WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was  most of the time in ODD
periods and accepted reports in any spot in the channel. QSY below 1000Hz
was not necessary. My QSOs with them were always like that. It took me some
time to understand how to work them, which I think was the same to most of
the callers. BTW,  I have never seen FOX out of sync. The worst that I can
remember was 0.4s.

Many thought ? myself included- that they were not using WSJTx, but some
other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the operators
confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.

After the expedition they have stated that : ? *We had issues  with the FT8
due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock was 14
seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it
was even.*?

Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks would have
prevented the problem above.

So my questions to the developers are:

a)  Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead them to TX in
ODD periods as FOX ?

b)  How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the Hound to
finalize the QSO with them?

This is very intriguing to many of us. Some clarification on what happened
is very much appreciated

Thanks Fred PY2XB

--
Fred - PY2XB

PY2FXH, PY2FXH/W2, PY2FXH/9, PY2XB/0, F/PY2XB, ZX2XB, PT7BXB, PY2XB/PY0F,
PQ0F , VP5/PY2XB, PW2IO
(SA-071), ZX8W
 (SA-060),
PY2XB/1 (SA-029), 8P9XB , PQ8XB
 (SA-045), ZX2S
 (SA-028),
PR7XB W4/PY2XB, 3D2XB , PY22XB
,PY0FX, W2/PY2XB, W9/PY2XB, VE3/PY2XB, PY2XB/5

*Team member** :* PW2M  (SA-071), PX8J
 (SA-041), T30PY - T30SIX 
, PT0S , 9M0W 
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Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Henryk Majcher via wsjt-devel]

Hi Fred

The software "TimeFudge" by Mike W9MDB fixed such a problem.
This is time synchronisation to other stations (they have accurate time).
The DX expedition does not need GPS or the internet to do time
synchronisation.

73
Henryk  SP3E

śr., 15 lut 2023 o 13:22 Fred Carvalho via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> napisał(a):

> GM to all
>
> *This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*
>
> During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that they were
> using WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was  most of the time in ODD
> periods and accepted reports in any spot in the channel. QSY below 1000Hz
> was not necessary. My QSOs with them were always like that. It took me some
> time to understand how to work them, which I think was the same to most of
> the callers. BTW,  I have never seen FOX out of sync. The worst that I can
> remember was 0.4s.
>
> Many thought – myself included- that they were not using WSJTx, but some
> other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the operators
> confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.
>
> After the expedition they have stated that : “ *We had issues  with the
> FT8 due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock was 14
> seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it
> was even.*”
>
> Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks would have
> prevented the problem above.
>
> So my questions to the developers are:
>
> a)  Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead them to TX in
> ODD periods as FOX ?
>
> b)  How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the Hound to
> finalize the QSO with them?
>
> This is very intriguing to many of us. Some clarification on what happened
> is very much appreciated
>
> Thanks Fred PY2XB
>
> --
> Fred - PY2XB
>
> PY2FXH, PY2FXH/W2, PY2FXH/9, PY2XB/0, F/PY2XB, ZX2XB, PT7BXB, PY2XB/PY0F,
> PQ0F , VP5/PY2XB, PW2IO
> (SA-071), ZX8W  
> (SA-060),
> PY2XB/1 (SA-029), 8P9XB , PQ8XB
>  (SA-045), ZX2S  
> (SA-028),
> PR7XB W4/PY2XB, 3D2XB , PY22XB
> ,PY0FX, W2/PY2XB, W9/PY2XB, VE3/PY2XB,
> PY2XB/5
>
> *Team member** :* PW2M  (SA-071), PX8J
>  (SA-041), T30PY - T30SIX
> , PT0S , 9M0W
> 
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Ron WV4P via wsjt-devel]

Lots of the people that got Clublog confirmations worked them in the Wrong
time Slot. So the issue was real.

Ron, WV4P

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 9:42 AM Palle Preben-Hansen, OZ1RH via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Fred, there were many 3Y0J pirates on, maybe you worked one of them?
>
> 73, Palle, OZ1RH.
>
>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 10:15:14 -0300
>> From: Fred Carvalho 
>> To: WSJT software development , Joe
>> Taylor 
>> Subject: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation
>> Message-ID:
>> > iro0npmjsguxuxx71...@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> GM to all
>>
>> *This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*
>>
>> During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that they were
>> using WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was  most of the time in
>> ODD
>> periods and accepted reports in any spot in the channel. QSY below 1000Hz
>> was not necessary. My QSOs with them were always like that. It took me
>> some
>> time to understand how to work them, which I think was the same to most of
>> the callers. BTW,  I have never seen FOX out of sync. The worst that I can
>> remember was 0.4s.
>>
>> Many thought ? myself included- that they were not using WSJTx, but some
>> other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the operators
>> confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.
>>
>> After the expedition they have stated that : ? *We had issues  with the
>> FT8
>> due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock was 14
>> seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it
>> was even.*?
>>
>> Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks would have
>> prevented the problem above.
>>
>> So my questions to the developers are:
>>
>> a)  Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead them to TX in
>> ODD periods as FOX ?
>>
>> b)  How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the Hound to
>> finalize the QSO with them?
>>
>> This is very intriguing to many of us. Some clarification on what happened
>> is very much appreciated
>>
>> Thanks Fred PY2XB
>>
>> --
>> Fred - PY2XB
>>
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[wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Palle Preben-Hansen, OZ1RH via wsjt-devel]

Fred, there were many 3Y0J pirates on, maybe you worked one of them?

73, Palle, OZ1RH.


> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 10:15:14 -0300
> From: Fred Carvalho 
> To: WSJT software development , Joe
> Taylor 
> Subject: [wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation
> Message-ID:
>  iro0npmjsguxuxx71...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> GM to all
>
> *This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*
>
> During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that they were
> using WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was  most of the time in ODD
> periods and accepted reports in any spot in the channel. QSY below 1000Hz
> was not necessary. My QSOs with them were always like that. It took me some
> time to understand how to work them, which I think was the same to most of
> the callers. BTW,  I have never seen FOX out of sync. The worst that I can
> remember was 0.4s.
>
> Many thought ? myself included- that they were not using WSJTx, but some
> other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the operators
> confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.
>
> After the expedition they have stated that : ? *We had issues  with the FT8
> due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock was 14
> seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it
> was even.*?
>
> Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks would have
> prevented the problem above.
>
> So my questions to the developers are:
>
> a)  Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead them to TX in
> ODD periods as FOX ?
>
> b)  How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the Hound to
> finalize the QSO with them?
>
> This is very intriguing to many of us. Some clarification on what happened
> is very much appreciated
>
> Thanks Fred PY2XB
>
> --
> Fred - PY2XB
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Logging of mixed data if you do QSO with two stations

[Marco Calistri via wsjt-devel]

Hi Brian,

Yes, i know Saku, he helped me in many occasions.

Since this is not a blocking issue for me but just a random and not important 
one, occuring only under particular usage of the FT8 QSO (trying to complete 2 
QSO almost at the same time) I don't feel me comfortable to asking Saku to 
resolve it.

In any case him is participating on the present list as user, so supposedly he 
has read this topic already.

I'm quite sure that such behavior it being easily reproducible if you try to do 
same actions I've described on my first email.

Best regards,

Marco, PY1ZRJ

Inviato da Outlook per Android


Da: Brian Morrison via wsjt-devel 
Inviato: mercoledì 15 febbraio 2023, 11:12
A: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
Cc: Brian Morrison 
Oggetto: Re: [wsjt-devel] Logging of mixed data if you do QSO with two stations

On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 23:17:19 -0300
Marco Calistri via wsjt-devel  wrote:

> Il 14/02/23 11:44, Brian Morrison via wsjt-devel ha scritto:
> > On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 08:39:54 -0300
> > Marco Calistri via wsjt-devel
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I'm using CQRLOG as the default QSO logging software with WSJT-X
> > What version of CQRLOG are you using?
> >
>
> Hello!
>
> CQRLOG 2.6.0 (2022-07-05)
>
> But, as I wrote, this occurred with previous versions as well.

I can only suggest contacting Saku OH1KH and asking him if he can help,
he's made quite a few changes to the CQRLog code and maybe can help fix
your problem.

--

Brian  G8SEZ


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Logging of mixed data if you do QSO with two stations

[Brian Morrison via wsjt-devel]

On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 23:17:19 -0300
Marco Calistri via wsjt-devel  wrote:

> Il 14/02/23 11:44, Brian Morrison via wsjt-devel ha scritto:
> > On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 08:39:54 -0300
> > Marco Calistri via wsjt-devel
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I'm using CQRLOG as the default QSO logging software with WSJT-X
> > What version of CQRLOG are you using?
> >
> 
> Hello!
> 
> CQRLOG 2.6.0 (2022-07-05)
> 
> But, as I wrote, this occurred with previous versions as well.

I can only suggest contacting Saku OH1KH and asking him if he can help,
he's made quite a few changes to the CQRLog code and maybe can help fix
your problem.

-- 

Brian  G8SEZ


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[wsjt-devel] 3Y0J strange F/H operation

[Fred Carvalho via wsjt-devel]

GM to all

*This concerns F/H operation in 3Y0J*

During the DXpedition the team announced multiple times that they were
using WSJT DXPedition Mode (F/H). However, FOX was  most of the time in ODD
periods and accepted reports in any spot in the channel. QSY below 1000Hz
was not necessary. My QSOs with them were always like that. It took me some
time to understand how to work them, which I think was the same to most of
the callers. BTW,  I have never seen FOX out of sync. The worst that I can
remember was 0.4s.

Many thought – myself included- that they were not using WSJTx, but some
other multistream DXP mode application. However one of the operators
confirmed to me that they have used WSJT software.

After the expedition they have stated that : “ *We had issues  with the FT8
due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock was 14
seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it
was even.*”

Well a simple GPS device connected to one of their notebooks would have
prevented the problem above.

So my questions to the developers are:

a)  Is it really possible that lack of sync would lead them to TX in
ODD periods as FOX ?

b)  How come QSY below 1000 HZ was not necessary for the Hound to
finalize the QSO with them?

This is very intriguing to many of us. Some clarification on what happened
is very much appreciated

Thanks Fred PY2XB

-- 
Fred - PY2XB

PY2FXH, PY2FXH/W2, PY2FXH/9, PY2XB/0, F/PY2XB, ZX2XB, PT7BXB, PY2XB/PY0F,
PQ0F , VP5/PY2XB, PW2IO
(SA-071), ZX8W
 (SA-060),
PY2XB/1 (SA-029), 8P9XB , PQ8XB
 (SA-045), ZX2S
 (SA-028),
PR7XB W4/PY2XB, 3D2XB , PY22XB
,PY0FX, W2/PY2XB, W9/PY2XB, VE3/PY2XB, PY2XB/5

*Team member** :* PW2M  (SA-071), PX8J
 (SA-041), T30PY - T30SIX 
, PT0S , 9M0W 
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