Re: [PATCH notification] spec: Add badge-number hint
Aren't we talking protocol here? UI can be argued elsewhere, to be honest... Anyway, protocol-wise, why isn't this the job of the notification client? (Mobile notification clients do it that way fwiw) J. Leclanche On 16 February 2015 at 20:52, Thomas Kluyver wrote: > On 16 February 2015 at 10:18, Bastien Nocera wrote: >> >> About the? It's also very low for a number of people. I can also be >> there to notify about the number of new podcasts episodes to read, the >> number of unread articles in my offline reader app, the number of unread >> messages in my chat application, > > > In all of these cases (email, podcasts, RSS reader, chat), I have used > applications which internally show some kind of unread/unseen count, and in > all four categories, the number quickly gets higher than I have any > intention of doing anything about other than clicking 'Mark all read'. I > have a suspicion that this is partly what 'killed' RSS (in popular use) - > feed readers were designed as if people would read every item, and then it > felt like a chore to keep up with it. > > I'm not saying there are no possible use cases for a numeric badge, but my > experience is that most of the obvious use cases for it are not great UI > design. > > Thomas > > ___ > xdg mailing list > xdg@lists.freedesktop.org > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg > ___ xdg mailing list xdg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg
Re: [PATCH notification] spec: Add badge-number hint
On 16 February 2015 at 10:18, Bastien Nocera wrote: > About the? It's also very low for a number of people. I can also be > there to notify about the number of new podcasts episodes to read, the > number of unread articles in my offline reader app, the number of unread > messages in my chat application, > In all of these cases (email, podcasts, RSS reader, chat), I have used applications which internally show some kind of unread/unseen count, and in all four categories, the number quickly gets higher than I have any intention of doing anything about other than clicking 'Mark all read'. I have a suspicion that this is partly what 'killed' RSS (in popular use) - feed readers were designed as if people would read every item, and then it felt like a chore to keep up with it. I'm not saying there are no possible use cases for a numeric badge, but my experience is that most of the obvious use cases for it are not great UI design. Thomas ___ xdg mailing list xdg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg
Re: [PATCH notification] spec: Add badge-number hint
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote: > On Mon, 2015-02-16 at 10:03 -0800, Jasper St. Pierre wrote: > > Jon had multiple reasons: > > > > > > 1. The main use for a counter like is "Unread Emails", a number that's > > particularly high for Jon that he didn't think it would be too useful. > > Notifications should be about the > > About the? Sorry. "Notifications should be about the now." > It's also very low for a number of people. I've glanced at enough people's Gmails over the shoulder to know that's not the case. > I can also be > there to notify about the number of new podcasts episodes to read, the > number of unread articles in my offline reader app, the number of unread > messages in my chat application, or even the fact that there is an > update available. > > > 2. It's hard to figure out what the number even means sometimes, or > > how to clear it. He showed me his iPhone which had some app which had > > a "2" badge, and there was seemingly no explanation for it. So we > > decided that we would always making it the number of unread > > notifications, and keep the UI for clearing that badge consistent. > > It can be turned off in the Notifications settings on iOS, and so will > we be able to turn it off in GNOME. > > > 3. It got stuck. Again, another app on his iPhone always listed that > > he had 1 unread message, when the app itself had nothing. It was > > definitely the number of unread messages, since it went up and down > > when he got new messages, but, again, there's a "1" that he could > > never clear because of an application bug. > > Apps have bugs. Disable the badge, or remove the app then. > > > Then, how do we implement this with the new notifications design in > > GNOME? I don't see a place for a badge in > > https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/OS/Notifications/Redux > > I would show it on the app's icon, not in a separate notification. > Then why is it part of the notification? If I have broadcast a new notification with a new badge-number hint, does that replace the old one? What if I remove the notification with that hint? What do we display then? Note that we replaced the FDO Notifications spec with a semi-private API when we introduced GNotification. Ryan was planning to standardize that API, so you should talk to him about it. > Look for badge in this to see the equivalent iOS notification API: > > https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/NetworkingInternet/Conceptual/RemoteNotificationsPG/Chapters/IPhoneOSClientImp.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40008194-CH103-SW13 > > Look for "badge". > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Bastien Nocera > > wrote: > > On Mon, 2015-02-16 at 09:37 -0800, Jasper St. Pierre wrote: > > > Why and how? > > > > How what? > > > > > Note that not giving applications the badge number was an > > explicit > > > design decision Jon, Cosimo and I made when we first > > introduced > > > notifications. > > > > I'd like some explanations as to why this decision was made > > though. This > > is useful for a number of applications, and would be > > configurable > > through the "Notifications" panel in GNOME (which we didn't > > have when > > this design decision was taken I guess). > > > > The server can also choose not to implement it (or cannot). > > > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Bastien Nocera > > > > > wrote: > > > As discussed during the Wayland meeting at FOSDEM > > 2015. > > > --- > > > docs/notification-spec.xml | 17 +++-- > > > 1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) > > > > > > diff --git a/docs/notification-spec.xml > > > b/docs/notification-spec.xml > > > index fa1da0b..3bc0292 100644 > > > --- a/docs/notification-spec.xml > > > +++ b/docs/notification-spec.xml > > > @@ -3,8 +3,8 @@ > > > > > > > > >Desktop Notifications > > Specification > > > - Version 1.2 > > > - 28 October 2010 > > > + Version 1.3 > > > + 16 February 2015 > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > @@ -674,6 +674,19 @@ > > >>= 1.2 > > > > > > > > > + > > "badge-number" > > > + INT32 > > > + > > > +When set, a server can use it to show the > > number > > > attached to > > > +the notification on top of the application > > icon > > > referenced by the > > >
Re: [PATCH notification] spec: Add badge-number hint
On Mon, 2015-02-16 at 10:03 -0800, Jasper St. Pierre wrote: > Jon had multiple reasons: > > > 1. The main use for a counter like is "Unread Emails", a number that's > particularly high for Jon that he didn't think it would be too useful. > Notifications should be about the About the? It's also very low for a number of people. I can also be there to notify about the number of new podcasts episodes to read, the number of unread articles in my offline reader app, the number of unread messages in my chat application, or even the fact that there is an update available. > 2. It's hard to figure out what the number even means sometimes, or > how to clear it. He showed me his iPhone which had some app which had > a "2" badge, and there was seemingly no explanation for it. So we > decided that we would always making it the number of unread > notifications, and keep the UI for clearing that badge consistent. It can be turned off in the Notifications settings on iOS, and so will we be able to turn it off in GNOME. > 3. It got stuck. Again, another app on his iPhone always listed that > he had 1 unread message, when the app itself had nothing. It was > definitely the number of unread messages, since it went up and down > when he got new messages, but, again, there's a "1" that he could > never clear because of an application bug. Apps have bugs. Disable the badge, or remove the app then. > Then, how do we implement this with the new notifications design in > GNOME? I don't see a place for a badge in > https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/OS/Notifications/Redux I would show it on the app's icon, not in a separate notification. Look for badge in this to see the equivalent iOS notification API: https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/NetworkingInternet/Conceptual/RemoteNotificationsPG/Chapters/IPhoneOSClientImp.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40008194-CH103-SW13 Look for "badge". > On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Bastien Nocera > wrote: > On Mon, 2015-02-16 at 09:37 -0800, Jasper St. Pierre wrote: > > Why and how? > > How what? > > > Note that not giving applications the badge number was an > explicit > > design decision Jon, Cosimo and I made when we first > introduced > > notifications. > > I'd like some explanations as to why this decision was made > though. This > is useful for a number of applications, and would be > configurable > through the "Notifications" panel in GNOME (which we didn't > have when > this design decision was taken I guess). > > The server can also choose not to implement it (or cannot). > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Bastien Nocera > > > wrote: > > As discussed during the Wayland meeting at FOSDEM > 2015. > > --- > > docs/notification-spec.xml | 17 +++-- > > 1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) > > > > diff --git a/docs/notification-spec.xml > > b/docs/notification-spec.xml > > index fa1da0b..3bc0292 100644 > > --- a/docs/notification-spec.xml > > +++ b/docs/notification-spec.xml > > @@ -3,8 +3,8 @@ > > > > > >Desktop Notifications > Specification > > - Version 1.2 > > - 28 October 2010 > > + Version 1.3 > > + 16 February 2015 > > > > > > Mike > > @@ -674,6 +674,19 @@ > >>= 1.2 > > > > > > + > "badge-number" > > + INT32 > > + > > +When set, a server can use it to show the > number > > attached to > > +the notification on top of the application > icon > > referenced by the > > +"desktop-entry" hint. > > +Note that servers can choose not to show > the number, > > either because > > +they do not implement the capability, or in > response > > to user > > +configuration to suppress its display. > > + > > + >= 1.3 > > + > > + > >"category" > >STRING > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > xdg mailing list > > xdg@lists.freedesktop.org > >
Re: [PATCH notification] spec: Add badge-number hint
Jon had multiple reasons: 1. The main use for a counter like is "Unread Emails", a number that's particularly high for Jon that he didn't think it would be too useful. Notifications should be about the 2. It's hard to figure out what the number even means sometimes, or how to clear it. He showed me his iPhone which had some app which had a "2" badge, and there was seemingly no explanation for it. So we decided that we would always making it the number of unread notifications, and keep the UI for clearing that badge consistent. 3. It got stuck. Again, another app on his iPhone always listed that he had 1 unread message, when the app itself had nothing. It was definitely the number of unread messages, since it went up and down when he got new messages, but, again, there's a "1" that he could never clear because of an application bug. Then, how do we implement this with the new notifications design in GNOME? I don't see a place for a badge in https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/OS/Notifications/Redux On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote: > On Mon, 2015-02-16 at 09:37 -0800, Jasper St. Pierre wrote: > > Why and how? > > How what? > > > Note that not giving applications the badge number was an explicit > > design decision Jon, Cosimo and I made when we first introduced > > notifications. > > I'd like some explanations as to why this decision was made though. This > is useful for a number of applications, and would be configurable > through the "Notifications" panel in GNOME (which we didn't have when > this design decision was taken I guess). > > The server can also choose not to implement it (or cannot). > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Bastien Nocera > > wrote: > > As discussed during the Wayland meeting at FOSDEM 2015. > > --- > > docs/notification-spec.xml | 17 +++-- > > 1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) > > > > diff --git a/docs/notification-spec.xml > > b/docs/notification-spec.xml > > index fa1da0b..3bc0292 100644 > > --- a/docs/notification-spec.xml > > +++ b/docs/notification-spec.xml > > @@ -3,8 +3,8 @@ > > > > > >Desktop Notifications Specification > > - Version 1.2 > > - 28 October 2010 > > + Version 1.3 > > + 16 February 2015 > > > > > > Mike > > @@ -674,6 +674,19 @@ > >>= 1.2 > > > > > > + "badge-number" > > + INT32 > > + > > +When set, a server can use it to show the number > > attached to > > +the notification on top of the application icon > > referenced by the > > +"desktop-entry" hint. > > +Note that servers can choose not to show the number, > > either because > > +they do not implement the capability, or in response > > to user > > +configuration to suppress its display. > > + > > + >= 1.3 > > + > > + > >"category" > >STRING > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > xdg mailing list > > xdg@lists.freedesktop.org > > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg > > > > > > > > -- > > Jasper > > > > > -- Jasper ___ xdg mailing list xdg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg
Re: [PATCH notification] spec: Add badge-number hint
On Mon, 2015-02-16 at 09:37 -0800, Jasper St. Pierre wrote: > Why and how? How what? > Note that not giving applications the badge number was an explicit > design decision Jon, Cosimo and I made when we first introduced > notifications. I'd like some explanations as to why this decision was made though. This is useful for a number of applications, and would be configurable through the "Notifications" panel in GNOME (which we didn't have when this design decision was taken I guess). The server can also choose not to implement it (or cannot). > On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Bastien Nocera > wrote: > As discussed during the Wayland meeting at FOSDEM 2015. > --- > docs/notification-spec.xml | 17 +++-- > 1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) > > diff --git a/docs/notification-spec.xml > b/docs/notification-spec.xml > index fa1da0b..3bc0292 100644 > --- a/docs/notification-spec.xml > +++ b/docs/notification-spec.xml > @@ -3,8 +3,8 @@ > > >Desktop Notifications Specification > - Version 1.2 > - 28 October 2010 > + Version 1.3 > + 16 February 2015 > > > Mike > @@ -674,6 +674,19 @@ >>= 1.2 > > > + "badge-number" > + INT32 > + > +When set, a server can use it to show the number > attached to > +the notification on top of the application icon > referenced by the > +"desktop-entry" hint. > +Note that servers can choose not to show the number, > either because > +they do not implement the capability, or in response > to user > +configuration to suppress its display. > + > + >= 1.3 > + > + >"category" >STRING > > > > > ___ > xdg mailing list > xdg@lists.freedesktop.org > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg > > > > -- > Jasper > ___ xdg mailing list xdg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg
Re: [PATCH notification] spec: Add badge-number hint
Why and how? Note that not giving applications the badge number was an explicit design decision Jon, Cosimo and I made when we first introduced notifications. On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote: > As discussed during the Wayland meeting at FOSDEM 2015. > --- > docs/notification-spec.xml | 17 +++-- > 1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) > > diff --git a/docs/notification-spec.xml b/docs/notification-spec.xml > index fa1da0b..3bc0292 100644 > --- a/docs/notification-spec.xml > +++ b/docs/notification-spec.xml > @@ -3,8 +3,8 @@ > > >Desktop Notifications Specification > - Version 1.2 > - 28 October 2010 > + Version 1.3 > + 16 February 2015 > > > Mike > @@ -674,6 +674,19 @@ >>= 1.2 > > > + "badge-number" > + INT32 > + > +When set, a server can use it to show the number attached to > +the notification on top of the application icon referenced by the > +"desktop-entry" hint. > +Note that servers can choose not to show the number, either > because > +they do not implement the capability, or in response to user > +configuration to suppress its display. > + > + >= 1.3 > + > + >"category" >STRING > > > > ___ > xdg mailing list > xdg@lists.freedesktop.org > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg > -- Jasper ___ xdg mailing list xdg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg
[PATCH notification] spec: Add ability to advertise notifications usage
As discussed during the Wayland meeting at FOSDEM 2015. --- docs/notification-spec.xml | 17 + 1 file changed, 17 insertions(+) diff --git a/docs/notification-spec.xml b/docs/notification-spec.xml index 3bc0292..74f3dd2 100644 --- a/docs/notification-spec.xml +++ b/docs/notification-spec.xml @@ -1287,4 +1287,21 @@ + + + Advertising notification usage + +To advertise the fact that they use the notification protocol, +applications can add the org.freedesktop.Notifications.Sender +string to the Implements in their .desktop file +so that interfaces to configure notification use can pre-populate +their lists of applications using notifications. For example: + + + + Implements=org.freedesktop.Notifications.Sender;org.freedesktop.test; + + + + ___ xdg mailing list xdg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg
[PATCH notification] spec: Add badge-number hint
As discussed during the Wayland meeting at FOSDEM 2015. --- docs/notification-spec.xml | 17 +++-- 1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) diff --git a/docs/notification-spec.xml b/docs/notification-spec.xml index fa1da0b..3bc0292 100644 --- a/docs/notification-spec.xml +++ b/docs/notification-spec.xml @@ -3,8 +3,8 @@ Desktop Notifications Specification - Version 1.2 - 28 October 2010 + Version 1.3 + 16 February 2015 Mike @@ -674,6 +674,19 @@ >= 1.2 + "badge-number" + INT32 + +When set, a server can use it to show the number attached to +the notification on top of the application icon referenced by the +"desktop-entry" hint. +Note that servers can choose not to show the number, either because +they do not implement the capability, or in response to user +configuration to suppress its display. + + >= 1.3 + + "category" STRING ___ xdg mailing list xdg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg
Re: [PATCH] desktop entry spec: Add "UsesNotifications" key
On Wed, 2015-02-04 at 06:39 -0500, Ryan Lortie wrote: > hi, > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2015, at 06:21, Bastien Nocera wrote: > > Huh? Are we talking about the same spec[1] that already exists and you > > implemented, and that we're discussing on xdg@lists.freedesktop.org? > > [1]: > > https://people.gnome.org/~mccann/docs/notification-spec/notification-spec-latest.html > > Yes and no. The linked spec is not the one that I that I had any > involvement in at all. > > The one that we created recently is not (yet) a freedesktop spec. It > uses org.gtk.Notifications. > > org.freedesktop.Notifications is > https://developer.gnome.org/notification-spec/ (for which the canonical > version is apparently in Jon's homedir -- the one you link above). I've > never had any involvement at all with this spec. The canonical version is in libnotify's git tree: https://git.gnome.org/browse/libnotify/tree/docs/notification-spec.xml > GNotification will use one or the other, depending on what is > implemented by the system. ___ xdg mailing list xdg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg
