Re: [XeTeX] Question about polyglossia and babel
I've been puzzled for a while because my TL2010 distribution appears to load Babel by default very early in the format file. E.g.,: $ xelatex This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.2-0.9997.4 (TeX Live 2010) restricted \write18 enabled. **\relax entering extended mode LaTeX2e 2009/09/24 Babel v3.8l and hyphenation patterns for english, dumylang, nohyphenation, ge rman-x-2009-06-19, ngerman-x-2009-06-19, afrikaans, ancientgreek, ibycus, arabi c, armenian, basque, bulgarian, catalan, pinyin, coptic, croatian, czech, danis h, dutch, ukenglish, usenglishmax, esperanto, estonian, farsi, finnish, french, galician, german, ngerman, swissgerman, monogreek, greek, hungarian, icelandic , assamese, bengali, gujarati, hindi, kannada, malayalam, marathi, oriya, panja bi, tamil, telugu, indonesian, interlingua, irish, italian, kurmanji, lao, lati n, latvian, lithuanian, mongolian, mongolianlmc, bokmal, nynorsk, polish, portu guese, romanian, russian, sanskrit, serbian, slovak, slovenian, spanish, swedis h, turkish, turkmen, ukrainian, uppersorbian, welsh, loaded. * saying \listfiles shows only *File List* article.cls2007/10/19 v1.4h Standard LaTeX document class size10.clo2007/10/19 v1.4h Standard LaTeX file (size option) *** so the call to babel must be in the fmt setup. Will try to find it later today. Dominik -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] Question about polyglossia and babel
Dominik Wujastyk wrote: I've been puzzled for a while because my TL2010 distribution appears to load Babel by default very early in the format file. E.g.,: $ xelatex This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.2-0.9997.4 (TeX Live 2010) restricted \write18 enabled. **\relax entering extended mode LaTeX2e 2009/09/24 Babel v3.8l and hyphenation patterns for english,... I don't think this started at TL 2010, Dominik; I have recollections of seeing Babel mentioned early in the log file in earlier releases, and in a sense it was part of what I looked for to see if TeX or LaTeX had been invoked. ** Phil. -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] Question about polyglossia and babel
When xelatex is building it's format file, it gets to loading latex.ltx.
That contains
\InputIfFileExists{hyphen.cfg}
{\typeout{===^^J%
Local configuration file hyphen.cfg used^^J%
===}%On 23
November 2010 10:03, Philip
There are two hyphen.cfg files in TL2010, one for babel and one for luatex.
/usr/local/texlive/2010/texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel/hyphen.cfg
/usr/local/texlive/2010/texmf-dist/tex/luatex/hyph-utf8/hyphen.cfg
They're more or less the same file; the luatex one has some additions
specific to \ifx\directlua or \else. Xelatex loads the first. That's the
babel one, and that's where the Babel v3.8l announcement in the XeLaTeX
format comes from.
Dominik
Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk wrote:
Dominik Wujastyk wrote:
I've been puzzled for a while because my TL2010 distribution appears to
load Babel by default very early in the format file.
E.g.,:
$ xelatex
This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.2-0.9997.4 (TeX Live 2010)
restricted \write18 enabled.
**\relax
entering extended mode
LaTeX2e 2009/09/24
Babel v3.8l and hyphenation patterns for english,...
I don't think this started at TL 2010, Dominik; I have recollections
of seeing Babel mentioned early in the log file in earlier releases,
and in a sense it was part of what I looked for to see if TeX or
LaTeX had been invoked.
** Phil.
--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] Question about polyglossia and babel
Am 23.11.2010 um 04:32 schrieb Vladimir Lomov: P.S. Something wrong with your TL setup because here I could compile the file without such messages. May be you switch off support for some languages? Yes, that's true! I did not think of this and assumed a failure in polyglossia... -- Greetings Pete Eat the rich – the poor are tough and stringy. -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] Question about polyglossia and babel
I don't think this started at TL 2010, Dominik; I have recollections
of seeing Babel mentioned early in the log file in earlier releases,
That has always been the case. What it really means is that
hyphenation patterns have been loaded in the format, not that the Babel
package is being used. For example, the following file
--- cut before ---
\documentclass{minimal}
\begin{document}
This document does not load Babel.
\end{document}
--- cut after ---
still has Babel v3.8l and hyphenation patterns for english, [...]
near the beginning of the log file.
Arthur
--
Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] Question about polyglossia and babel
There are two hyphen.cfg files in TL2010, one for babel and one for luatex. Indeed, and the second one has been designed so as *not* to load hyphenation patterns when generating formats, because it is possible in LuaTeX to load patterns on the fly, unlike in any other TeX engine. This means that the patterns are not dumped into the format, and brings significant speed-up both when generating formats and (above all) when loading it, which is of benefit to Lua(La)TeX users, who can then load patterns on demand when switching languages. This is not possible in XeTeX, the behaviour of which is much closer to that of pdfTeX in that respect. Arthur -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] Question about polyglossia and babel
Hi. 2010/11/23 Peter Dyballa peter_dyba...@web.de: Am 22.11.2010 um 15:40 schrieb Alexander: After upgrade to TL 2010 these commands not work. I see in my console log: (/usr/local/texlive/2010/texmf-dist/tex/xelatex/polyglossia/gloss-russian.ldf Package polyglossia Warning: No hyphenation patterns were loaded for `Russian' (polyglossia) I will use \language...@nohyphenation instead on input line 12. Package polyglossia Warning: \setlocalhyphenmin useless for unhyphenated language russian on input line 12. (/usr/local/texlive/2010/texmf-dist/tex/xelatex/polyglossia/babelsh.def)) (/usr/local/texlive/2010/texmf-dist/tex/xelatex/polyglossia/gloss-english.ldf) The LOG file shows additionally: (/usr/local/texlive/2010/texmf-dist/tex/xelatex/polyglossia/babelsh.def File: babelsh.def 2009/05/07 Babel common definitions for shorthands Taken verbatim from babel.def (2008/07/06 v3.8l) ) Package babel Info: Making an active character on input line 42. ) Package polyglossia Info: Default language is russian.. (/usr/local/texlive/2010/texmf-dist/tex/xelatex/polyglossia/gloss-english.ldf File: gloss-english.ldf polyglossia: module for english ) To use babel shorthands one should pass option 'babelshorthands=true' to polyglossia when loading it or to \setdefaultlanguage command. So polyglossia is failing and switches to Babel. IMHO, polyglossia doesn't use babel at all. It mimics babel but not loads it. Nevertheless the actual problem is not how to use babel shorthands but in Russian typeset rules. The em dash used in Russian typography style differs from English/Western case so babel defines special commands to support Russian em dash style. Previously this definition was copied to polyglossia (by me) but it doesn't work as expected. P.S. Something wrong with your TL setup because here I could compile the file without such messages. May be you switch off support for some languages? --- WBR, Vladimir Lomov -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] Question about polyglossia and babel
What's the reason in two versions polyglossiya in github? And when the new commands from babel would be ready for use? -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] Question about polyglossia and babel
** Alexander [2010-05-29 10:57:05 +0900]: Hello. What the best way to use commands --- and others (works in babel with Russian language) in XeTeX with polyglossia? xe(la)tex is Unicode-aware tex engine so you don't need any special package or command to insert dashes. So just insert them into document which you should edit in utf8 encoding (e.g. texworks, vim or emacs). P.S. There is a problem how to process old (read: written for babel) documents using xelatex. The answer would be: use 'babelshorthands' but Russian doesn't have shorthands support. If you in hurry you could take 'polyglossia.sty' and 'gloss-russian.ldf' from github.com (github.com/vp1981/polyglossia, use branch 'alph_unif' and take these files from there) and put them into directory with such documents. --- WBW, Vladimir Lomov -- To A Quick Young Fox Why jog exquisite bulk, fond crazy vamp, Daft buxom jonquil, zephyr's gawky vice? Guy fed by work, quiz Jove's xanthic lamp-- Zow! Qualms by deja vu gyp fox-kin thrice. -- Lazy Dog -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] Question about polyglossia and babel
Vladimir, You know, that Russian babel short-hands do slightly more than just insert a glyph from the font: they adjust the spacing around the em-dash (and the length of the dash, too), and allow hyphenation of adjacent words (in case of hyphens). So even in the case of Unicode input we need some macros to do this job. Vadim On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Vladimir Lomov lomov...@gmail.com wrote: ** Alexander [2010-05-29 10:57:05 +0900]: Hello. What the best way to use commands --- and others (works in babel with Russian language) in XeTeX with polyglossia? xe(la)tex is Unicode-aware tex engine so you don't need any special package or command to insert dashes. So just insert them into document which you should edit in utf8 encoding (e.g. texworks, vim or emacs). P.S. There is a problem how to process old (read: written for babel) documents using xelatex. The answer would be: use 'babelshorthands' but Russian doesn't have shorthands support. If you in hurry you could take 'polyglossia.sty' and 'gloss-russian.ldf' from github.com (github.com/vp1981/polyglossia, use branch 'alph_unif' and take these files from there) and put them into directory with such documents. --- WBW, Vladimir Lomov -- To A Quick Young Fox Why jog exquisite bulk, fond crazy vamp, Daft buxom jonquil, zephyr's gawky vice? Guy fed by work, quiz Jove's xanthic lamp-- Zow! Qualms by deja vu gyp fox-kin thrice. -- Lazy Dog -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] Question about polyglossia and babel
On 31/05/2010 12:35, Vadim Radionov wrote: Vladimir, You know, that Russian babel short-hands do slightly more than just insert a glyph from the font: they adjust the spacing around the em-dash (and the length of the dash, too), and allow hyphenation of adjacent words (in case of hyphens). So even in the case of Unicode input we need some macros to do this job. Vadim, I concur with you on this. There is now generic support in polyglossia for such shorthands to control hyphenation and typographic fine-tuning, but until now only German and Dutch make use of them. If you are willing to help on this, I'd be pleased to add the relevant macros to gloss-russian.ldf. It might even be possible to copy them verbatim from Babel, or with very minor adaptations. (You can contact me off-list if you wish). FC -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] Question about polyglossia and babel
2010/5/31, Vadim Radionov vadim.radio...@gmail.com: Vladimir, You know, that Russian babel short-hands do slightly more than just insert a glyph from the font: they adjust the spacing around the em-dash (and the length of the dash, too), and allow hyphenation of adjacent words (in case of hyphens). So even in the case of Unicode input we need some macros to do this job. Yes, this is the main reason. And they're easier to enter from the keyboard. -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] Question about polyglossia and babel
** Vadim Radionov [2010-05-31 14:35:21 +0400]: Vladimir, You know, that Russian babel short-hands do slightly more than just insert a glyph from the font: they adjust the spacing around the em-dash (and the length of the dash, too), and allow hyphenation of adjacent words (in case of hyphens). So even in the case of Unicode input we need some macros to do this job. As first aprroach I copied from 'russianb.ldf' definitions and put them into 'gloss-russian.ldf' (could be found on github.com/vp1981/polyglossia, branch alph_unif). Also there is a test file that I use to check that commands work but didn't check that they give exactly the same output as babel. Correct me if I'm wrong but any OTF font (except from ParaType?) gives European/American en/em dashes so there is no way to get en/em dashes as Russian type rules recommend except these commands? (I thought about to get them using fontspec commands). -- The true Southern watermelon is a boon apart, and not to be mentioned with commoner things. It is chief of the world's luxuries, king by the grace of God over all the fruits of the earth. When one has tasted it, he knows what the angels eat. It was not a Southern watermelon that Eve took; we know it because she repented. -- Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] Question about polyglossia and babel
On Sat, 29 May 2010 10:25:24 -0400 Fr. Michael Gilmary wrote: The last command ( \defaultfontfeatures ) is what enables fontspec to use --- and as the standard (La)TeX does. However, with Xe(La)TeX, you can enter — and “ (or ” ) directly since that's part of the genius of XeTeX. The question was about babel-styled shorthands rather than standard TeX ligatures. I believe polyglossia doesn't yet support shorthands for Russian. -- Regards, Alexey Kryukov anagnost at yandex dot ru Moscow State University Historical Faculty -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
