Re: [Xcb] [admin] X.Org list configuration change
Hi, On 2 December 2011 18:34, Josh Triplett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 06:19:44PM +0000, Daniel Stone wrote: >> Hi all, >> To clean things up a bit, we will be moving the following lists from >> lists.freedesktop.org to lists.x.org on Tuesday afternoon European >> time: >> [...] > > Will the existing email addresses for those lists continue to work? > Some of those list addresses have various references scattered about, > and it would help if they forwarded to the new location. Sorry, I should've clarified: yes, they will both now and always. Cheers, Daniel ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg Your subscription address: arch...@mail-archive.com
[admin] X.Org list configuration change
Hi all, To clean things up a bit, we will be moving the following lists from lists.freedesktop.org to lists.x.org on Tuesday afternoon European time: xorg@lists.freedesktop.org xorg-annou...@lists.freedesktop.org xorg-com...@lists.freedesktop.org x...@lists.freedesktop.org xcb-comm...@lists.freedesktop.org If you are currently filtering based on the List-Id header, please note that unfortunately this will change to listname.lists.x.org, so please update your filters, or be ready to cope with a bunch of noise in your inbox. Cheers, Daniel ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg Your subscription address: arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [ANNOUNCE] xkbcomp 1.2.2
Hi, On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 02:17:30PM +0100, Daniel Stone wrote: > This is an semi-urgent bugfix release for the two commits of mine, which > fix a particularly bad failure in the compat code. If you had a > SymInterpret definition (i.e. to map a keysym to an action, as used for > VT switch and others) with an unknown keycode, every key that wasn't > already mapped to an action would get mapped to your new action. > > So, for example, if you had XF86LogWinTree mapped to the PrWins action, > and a libX11 that was unaware of the new symbol, every key aside from VT > switching, zapping, pointer keys and modifiers, would dump the window > tree to your X log, and do nothing else. > > Distributions are strongly, strongly recommended to upgrade, including > in stable series. Please see the xkbcomp 1.2.3 release for an emergency brown paper bag release. I've removed the 1.2.2 tarballs from the X.Org servers. Sorry about this. Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg Your subscription address: arch...@mail-archive.com
[ANNOUNCE] xkbcomp 1.2.3
Hi, Well, this is embarassing. There was a pretty bad problem with the 1.2.2 release, which quite effectively crushed Any+AnyOfOrNone(All) interp mappings, in that xkeyboard-config actually relied on an explicit Any+AnyOfOrNone(All) mapping to function. 1.2.3 builds on the previous 1.2.2 fix to allow explicit Any+AnyOfOrNone(All) mappings, while still ignoring interp mappings whose keysyms could not be found. I've regression-tested this against xkbcomp 1.1.1 by comparing the results of compiling every layout (primary variants only) in xkeyboard-config, and there were no differences at all. Distributions are strongly recommended to push 1.2.3 instead of 1.2.2, whose tarballs have been removed from the archive. Daniel Stone (3): Constify LookupKeysym input argument Interp: Allow explicit Any/NoSymbol mappings Bump to 1.2.3 git tag: xkbcomp-1.2.3 http://xorg.freedesktop.org/archive/individual/app/xkbcomp-1.2.3.tar.bz2 MD5: 35622a497894c1cff9182d42696c3e27 xkbcomp-1.2.3.tar.bz2 SHA1: c20d1b5b8e25634cc9a79c5e4c3397a5ffbee1e0 xkbcomp-1.2.3.tar.bz2 http://xorg.freedesktop.org/archive/individual/app/xkbcomp-1.2.3.tar.gz MD5: 5a1e4752930330176e4b6c2aa1fc7213 xkbcomp-1.2.3.tar.gz SHA1: 64978c13bfcf766c6afe9ce8ac688b4191e1de69 xkbcomp-1.2.3.tar.gz Cheers, Daniel, typing through a brown paper bag signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg Your subscription address: arch...@mail-archive.com
[ANNOUNCE] xkbcomp 1.2.2
Hi, This is an semi-urgent bugfix release for the two commits of mine, which fix a particularly bad failure in the compat code. If you had a SymInterpret definition (i.e. to map a keysym to an action, as used for VT switch and others) with an unknown keycode, every key that wasn't already mapped to an action would get mapped to your new action. So, for example, if you had XF86LogWinTree mapped to the PrWins action, and a libX11 that was unaware of the new symbol, every key aside from VT switching, zapping, pointer keys and modifiers, would dump the window tree to your X log, and do nothing else. Distributions are strongly, strongly recommended to upgrade, including in stable series. Alan Coopersmith (1): Replace repeated checks for gcc with _X_ATTRIBUTE_PRINTF from xproto Alistair Leslie-Hughes (1): xkbcomp: Stop possible overflow in yyGetnumber. #31647 Daniel Stone (3): Interp: Don't make modifier lookup failure fatal Interp: Ignore NoSymbol definitions Bump to 1.2.2 Gaetan Nadon (2): config: let Automake handle Yacc dist and cleaning config: move pre-processor flags to AM_CPPFLAGS Julien Cristau (1): Inline the oiText macro in the only place it's used git tag: xkbcomp-1.2.2 http://xorg.freedesktop.org/archive/individual/app/xkbcomp-1.2.2.tar.bz2 MD5: 6e8e160b99145a9a3d6ca127f61e0bc9 xkbcomp-1.2.2.tar.bz2 SHA1: 1a8c8c567a50a90540a44c9e1417655c40af7c83 xkbcomp-1.2.2.tar.bz2 http://xorg.freedesktop.org/archive/individual/app/xkbcomp-1.2.2.tar.gz MD5: f047b89aa1f8b8ed6b2f1b938e9956f2 xkbcomp-1.2.2.tar.gz SHA1: 0c2ffa6badf541a92c37f8df9336ce3d8e2c25e7 xkbcomp-1.2.2.tar.gz Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg Your subscription address: arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Qery on Xlib project idea on summer of code page
Hi, On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 10:22:43PM +0530, nijil yes wrote: > I am interested in working on the idea mentioned on summer of code page on > replacing CMS code inside libX11 with libXcm.I would be glad to get a few > more > details on the work involved and such things.If there is anyone already > assigned > for the project as a mentor or if anyone is interested in mentoring that one > please reply.I have asked in the irc channel on this but dint receive any > replies.Also if there is anyone who has already/is working on this, I would > be > glad if you could help me out to get started.If you could mention the irc > nick I > will ping you back in the channel. Unfortunately the time for SoC applications has long passed; the selection process ended quite a while ago, and all the students have already started on their work. I'm afraid you're too late, but hopefully better luck next year. Of course, don't let this dissuade you from working on it anyway if you have any free time. :) Cheers, Daniel ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg Your subscription address: arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Bug 34004] New Account Request
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 03:02:56PM +0100, Luc Verhaegen wrote: > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:47:25AM +0000, Daniel Stone wrote: > > If you actually wanted to find out, you could go ask someone, > > First the following question needs to be answered: who owns (not pw0wn, > we found that out already) these machines, who is paying for their > power/net? > > The X.org Foundation? freedesktop.org owns the *.fd.o machines, which have been paid for by donations from generous sponsors (including Google and Intel), and the hosting is provided free of charge by the Computer Science department at Portland State University. The three Sun machines (expo.x.org and friends) at MIT were donated by Sun to MIT (or something to that effect - the end result is that we can't really move them), and the hosting bill is paid for by the X.Org Foundation. Most of this has been discussed in past Foundation board meetings. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg Your subscription address: arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Bug 34004] New Account Request
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:24:24AM +0100, Luc Verhaegen wrote: > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:17:50AM +0000, Daniel Stone wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 08:19:09AM +0100, Luc Verhaegen wrote: > > > All arguments were made, extensively, before. > > > > > > Except maybe for one: > > > > > > The claimed reason for reinstating daniels now is that apparently nobody > > > else wants to take on an admin role at fd.o. I would like to know which > > > known dependable community members were approached for such roles before > > > this decision here was taken. > > > > No-one has claimed that, except for you. > > > > What Tollef said is that as I'd harmed (the perception of) fd.o, rather > > than just quitting and getting to walk away, I should instead help out > > with fd.o admin tasks as penance: his view was that after causing some > > damage, I should help improve things. > > Was it considered, at any point in this process, to actually get more > (actually trusted) people in to do fd.o administration? > > I doubt it, and your answer seems to confirm it. I don't know. I'm just correcting your 'claimed reason' which was actually a fabrication based on what you think and/or would like people to believe. If you actually wanted to find out, you could go ask someone, instead of just posting random crap attributed to others to the list, in the hope that Phoronix will run with it. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg Your subscription address: arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Bug 34004] New Account Request
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 08:19:09AM +0100, Luc Verhaegen wrote: > On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 07:56:04AM +0100, Eirik Byrkjeflot Anonsen wrote: > > > On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 03:02:58PM +0000, Daniel Stone wrote: > > >> Yes. Tollef's opinion was that quitting was a copout and that I should > > >> instead go fix some sitewranglers bugs instead. > > > > > > Until the next time you're drunk, i'm sure. > > > > [...] > > > > (If you do choose to make a case, take the time to make sure your > > arguments are well thought out before posting. Remember, your arguments > > will have to sound convincing to a large number of people on this list, > > or you may as well not bother.) > > All arguments were made, extensively, before. > > Except maybe for one: > > The claimed reason for reinstating daniels now is that apparently nobody > else wants to take on an admin role at fd.o. I would like to know which > known dependable community members were approached for such roles before > this decision here was taken. No-one has claimed that, except for you. What Tollef said is that as I'd harmed (the perception of) fd.o, rather than just quitting and getting to walk away, I should instead help out with fd.o admin tasks as penance: his view was that after causing some damage, I should help improve things. And as this bears out: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/sitewranglers/2011-February/date.html#7255 I've been doing just that. If any of this is still unclear, please let me know and I can try to better explain it. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg Your subscription address: arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Bug 34004] New Account Request
On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 03:43:07PM +0100, Luc Verhaegen wrote: > On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 06:36:32AM -0800, bugzilla-dae...@freedesktop.org > wrote: > > --- Comment #4 from Daniel Stone 2011-02-09 06:36:31 > > PST --- > > done > > Root access restored, i presume? Yes. Tollef's opinion was that quitting was a copout and that I should instead go fix some sitewranglers bugs instead. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg Your subscription address: arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Respository vandalism by r...@...fd.o
Hi, I've been mostly offline whilst moving, so have only read this through web archives. As mentioned on IRC earlier, it was my account used. My apologies: as ajax said, it's indefensible, and am not really sure what else to say. I've suspended my root accounts as well. That being said: On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:38:19AM +0100, Luc Verhaegen wrote: > maybe even other substances As explained to Luc earlier: no, absolutely not. ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg Your subscription address: arch...@mail-archive.com
[ANNOUNCE] libX11 1.3.6
Hi, Just a small maintenance release for libX11; pending any catastrophic bugs, this will probably be the last release from the 1.3.x branch. The XStringToKeysym changes should provide a not-insignificant speedup for X server and application startup. Daniel Stone (6): XStringToKeysym: Special case for XF86 keysyms makekeys: Scan vendor keysyms as well as core Delete now-redundant XKeysymDB XStringToKeysym: Check strdup() return value XStringToKeysym: Cope with 0x1234cafe-style input libX11 1.3.6 Jens Petersen (1): Bug 29773: aliases for nb_NO.utf8 and nn_NO.utf8 git tag: libX11-1.3.6 http://xorg.freedesktop.org/archive/individual/lib/libX11-1.3.6.tar.bz2 MD5: 8e0a8a466aa78f66e09fe06cb395319f libX11-1.3.6.tar.bz2 SHA1: 4e03e19b2f6cf823e4951b934588240d49fc46d3 libX11-1.3.6.tar.bz2 http://xorg.freedesktop.org/archive/individual/lib/libX11-1.3.6.tar.gz MD5: 721b71674c18ae43b1be104314db4784 libX11-1.3.6.tar.gz SHA1: b9f96c744cf43a6b97cc10cd08f68781c05a9f27 libX11-1.3.6.tar.gz Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg Your subscription address: arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Key continue repeating if setting global autorepeat off while the key was already repeating.
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 08:27:47PM -0800, Octavio Alvarez wrote: > If I turn global autorepeat off while a key is already being repeated, > the key doesn't stop repeating. It continues on and on. At least according to XKB, I believe that's correct; almost all XKB actions are specified to not affect any keys currently down. Cheers, Daniel pgpgeYZIvmNvE.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg Your subscription address: arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Yeelong and SiliconMotion driver: asking for developers
Hi, On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 02:49:13PM -0400, Brett Smith wrote: > When we started looking at software for the SiliconMotion hardware (as > part of evaluating how free software-friendly a particular machine was), > we found a modified driver from the SiliconMotion company that seemed to > have some useful changes. The company was distributing it under GPLv2 > only. > > Some of the developers who were packaging software for the machine > pointed out that this license was unfortunate for them, because they > were interested in getting GRUB running on the box as well, and of > course, GPLv2-only is not a compatible license for a GPLv3-covered > project like GRUB. With that issue in front of him, RMS asked > SiliconMotion to allow the code to be used under the terms of GPLv3, one > way or another, which they agreed to. > > Please don't read any malice into that request, because I assure you > there was none. The FSF has consistently advocated that developers > should use licenses that are consistent with the larger projects they > interact with (as long as those licenses are free and GPL-compatible), > and that advice definitely applies to Xorg drivers. If we made a > mistake here, it was a failure to connect the dots. As weird as it > might sound, I don't think it was clear at the time that we were talking > about the licensing of an entire Xorg driver. If we had known that, we > would've asked SiliconMotion to switch to the X11 license, if possible, > to stay consistent with Xorg generally. > > And I'm happy to talk to SiliconMotion about that now. I don't know if > you have a usual way of handling licensing requests like this, but if > you want me to keep anybody or any lists in the loop on that thread, > that's no problem either; just let me know. And either way, if you have > any other questions or concerns about this, please don't hesitate to ask > me. Fair enough -- sorry if my reply was a bit harsh. It'd be great if you guys were willing to work with SMI to get it relicensed to MIT/X11, as for better or worse, we only accept MIT/X11 or non-four-clause BSD. We do host the development of some GPL drivers (xf86-input-synaptics, xf86-video-avivo), but we don't distribute these as a part of X.Org at all. Even so, these are GPLv2 rather than GPLv3, which would be a lot more problematic. For legal issues, the Foundation Board (bo...@foundation.x.org) handles all of that, and just ask the list or myself about technical stuff (SMI driver, code hosting, etc). Cheers, Daniel pgpWktpU1J30o.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Yeelong and SiliconMotion driver: asking for developers
Hi, On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 05:19:40PM -0400, Daniel Clark wrote: > 2010/3/16 Bridgman, John : > > Ahh, that makes sense -- so the relicensing from X11 to GPLv2 already > > happened, and the proposed relicensing was going to be from GPLv2 to v3. > > Asking if the code can be licensed back to X11 (allowing use in the X.org > > project) certainly sounds like a good next step. > > I'm glad we got that misunderstanding out of the way. > > If anyone is psyched to work on this, but doesn't have hardware, > Brett/FSF and/or I/Freedom Included and/or Octavio/Poder Digital can > work with Xorg donations people to get a Lemote Yeeloong to the Xorg > project. > > It looks like this chipset is also in some other stuff, like some > older Thinkpads: > http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/SMI_LynxEM (checked and you can get some > of them for $50-$100 on ebay). As with all other drivers, if someone seriously wants to maintain it but doesn't have the hardware, then the Foundation has a hardware budget set aside for exactly this. Cheers, Daniel pgpdLrxvmEsQy.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Yeelong and SiliconMotion driver: asking for developers
Hi, On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 08:51:56AM +, Owain Ainsworth wrote: > On Tue, Mar 09, 2010 at 10:22:28PM -0430, Octavio Rossell wrote: > > The idea of this wiki: > > http://gnu.org.ve/~octavio/lemote/doku.php?id=siliconmotiondriver > > is to collect all info for makin this easy. If any of you have more info > > or has a technical correction is ok (is on free editing mode) but is > > only a space where to put the info with an universal scope. > > Can you please clarify what the comments about GPLv3 are supposed to > mean on that page? Is it a reference to a non-public discussion? > > If the current driver is licensed under the MIT/X11 license (as it would > appear that it is) changing it without adding substantial new work is > legally questionable at best. Furthermore, changing this license after > adding to it could be considered to be obnoxious and anti-community. Anyone's free to tack on a more restrictive license to their work, which would bring the entire collection under the same license, but yeah, it would be incredibly obnoxious. X.Org's does not (currently) accept GPL packages anyway, so we couldn't merge it back. I heard vague rumblings about the FSF convincing Silicon Motion to relicense it as GPLv3+ in private, with complete disregard for X.Org. Good for the FSF: maybe they can do all the work on it then. Cheers, Daniel pgpFbPCXBs3ww.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg@lists.freedesktop.org: X.Org support Archives: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg Info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Keeping the board discussion going
On Tue, Mar 09, 2010 at 12:35:08AM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Luc Verhaegen wrote: > > members@ is basically a dead list, except around elections. I personally > > am all for re-using it. Also, an archive of the ml would be handy too. > > There is an archive, it's just hard to find due to the way the X.Org mailing > lists are currently hosted: > http://foundation.x.org/pipermail/members/ Actually, it's not too bad: for all X.Org lists, you simply click on the link at the very bottom of the email, and then follow the link to the archives. :) \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: vesa driver reports many modes, but only allows a few
On Thu, Mar 04, 2010 at 07:52:02AM -0600, Pat Kane wrote:
> Ross Boylan wrote:
>> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
>> 0x in ?? ()
>> (gdb) where
>> #0 0x in ?? ()
>> #1 0x0051a72a in DoConfigure ()
>> at ../../../../hw/xfree86/common/xf86Configure.c:832
>
> The traceback says that someone branched to zero at
> line 832 of hw/xfree86/common/xf86Configure.c, that
> section of code (from git master) looks like this:
>
> ConfiguredMonitor = NULL;
>
> xf86EnableAccess(xf86Screens[dev2screen[j]]);
> if ((*xf86Screens[dev2screen[j]]->PreInit)(xf86Screens[dev2screen[j]],
> 832: PROBE_DETECT) &&
> ConfiguredMonitor) {
> MonitorPtr = configureDDCMonitorSection(j);
> } else {
> MonitorPtr = configureMonitorSection(j);
> }
>
> So it appears that the expression:
> (*xf86Screens[dev2screen[j]]->PreInit)
> is NULL; it would be a good idea for that code to check
> if PreInit has been filled in before jumping through it.
>
> Can you recompile the X server with a test for NULL?
Er, if pScrn->PreInit is NULL, then something's gone quite seriously
wrong and we're screwed anyway.
Cheers,
Daniel
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Re: Problems with X.org and incompatibilities with in-house software
Hi Richard, On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 05:48:50PM -0500, Richard Brown wrote: > To our much dismay we have recently found after attempting to install > new Linux boxes that these extensions no longer appear to be available. > This has caused most of our internal applications to blow up and to be > completely ruined and unusable in the process. Dozens of applications > have now blown up and are not able to be used, involving millions of > lines of code. Thousands of dollars already invested in upgrade to new > Linux systems appears to be completely useless now, as none of our > applications can be used on these new systems. We advertised the deprecations fairly widely, and it was done in a staggered manner. No-one complained. > It is well past time that your organisation make backwards compatibility > with core X11 and all extensions to it a primary principle of your > organisation. To many have invested too much money into developing > software to utilise these extensions than to have them mindlessly > removed and thus blowing up dozens of our internal applications. > > We have decided that we will probably move to an entirely Win32 platform > instead of investing hundreds of thousands of dollars into an extensive > rewriting of our existing X applications, as it seems like, from what we > have already seen, it no longer seems as though we can count on this > platform to provide the backwards compatibility we need. We have been > talking to Microsoft extensively about this issue and they have indeed > provided us with huge resources and have iron clad commitments to > maintaining compatibility with their older interfaces, so we can rest > assured that with them that code we write today will still work years > and years from now. The key here is in what you've said -- you're paying Microsoft to make these things happen. If you want to pay a competent UNIX vendor (Red Hat or Sun, basically), then I'm sure they could help you guys out. It's pretty hard to do anything when you have to guess as to what someone who you've never previously interacted with is going to say in several years' time (when did PEX and XIE disappear -- late 1990s? early 2000s?). But I'm pleased to announce that old versions of X still work every bit as well now as they do previously, so if you don't want to upgrade then no-one's holding a gun to your head. Cheers, Daniel (PS: Ask Microsoft how you go running 16-bit DOS applications under Windows 7.) pgpyWRLPho8Ts.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Upgrading from 6.8.2
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 02:05:42AM -0500, paul rogers wrote: > My system(s) is LFS based. I think it's time to upgrade. My 6.8.2 is > monolithic, and I certainly see the advantage of not being required to > download the whole thing just to get some updated parts, particularly > as I'm on dial-up still. :( But I don't find a need to run SVN or CVS > locally, and I have access to a high-speed connection from time to time > for a brief period. Is there no "bundle" tarball I can download to give > be 7.4/7.5 all at once? That I could manage, but downloading scores of > individual tarballs, not. wget -r -np http://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.5/src/everything/ That will give you every single tarball in the distribution if you want, which is effectively the same as downloading the huge tarballs of old. Cheers, Daniel pgpAowhZH9awF.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Board voting ends today, but...
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 07:28:19PM +0100, Luc Verhaegen wrote: > On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 05:29:14PM +0000, Daniel Stone wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 06:01:38PM +0100, Luc Verhaegen wrote: > > > I believe some things have been asked for already: > > > * minutes or logs. > > > > Bart is collating his logs, and those will be posted very soon. > > > > > * details of financial dealings. > > > > This is being worked on as well, TTBOMK. > > While Bart mentioned something on last weeks board meeting > (http://wiki.x.org/wiki/BodIrcLog2010-02-16), I have not received a > reply to my email asking for such information. I have not seen anything > (more) with respect to finances either. They'll be posted when they're posted. > > Well, the bylaws (which were voted on by the membership back in 2006 or > > thereabouts -- I believe you were a member at the time this was voted on > > and approved) state 25%. If anyone's got any suggestions for improving > > the bylaws, then I'm sure they'd be welcome, and the membership can vote > > on changing the bylaws again. > > Ok, maybe this should be considered after we've managed to get all > necessary information and have had credible elections. Feel free to bring anything up that you consider relevant after reading the bylaws. > > Cancelling the election would in my view be phenomenally inappropriate: > > if that happened and someone suggested that the board canned the > > election because it didn't like the field, the timing, the way it was > > going, etc, then I would not have any good response to them. > > The election schedule was revised a few times, and then the eventual > election started, without warning, a month later (and very very close > to, at least for me, a major event like FOSDEMthan even the latest > schedule. Delaying it even more, so that we can have well informed > elections, is not going to make much a difference anymore. I agree. > > We've all (well, mostly) voted on a board that we're presumably happy > > with by now. If the membership is deeply unhappy after the election, > > then we can vote for a recall/secondary election. But cancelling the > > election and continuing indefinitely with the current board is something > > that would make me deeply uncomfortable, and more than anything I think > > smacks of wild impropriety. > > You seem to have access to the current election results, and you mention > that you are "presumably happy with" it now... Hrm. I meant that, on average, everyone would presumably be happy with the board, as it reflects the opinion of everyone who voted. Presumably most people who didn't vote don't particularly care about the makeup of the board, and are just as happy either way. So yes, by virtue of having run an election with a reasonable participation rate (compared to historical average), I'm saying that the membership will -- on average -- be happy with the results. But I guess you knew that. > I am also not for postponing elections indefinitely. I want to know what > we are voting for, and then see elections happen on the basis of that > information. > > Do you really believe that waiting for relevant information will > translate into postponing indefinitely? I thought that you just said > that the relevant information is being actively gathered now. > > If this election is supposed to be about getting those people elected > who will gouvern the affairs of the X.org Foundation best, then this > information is absolutely essential. If of course, this is just about > getting your friends elected to the board, then such information is > absolutely irrelevant. I have my own opinion, as a voter, as to who would best govern the Foundation, and I assume so do you. Anything I've done for the Foundation has been for the good of the Foundation, and not for getting my mates elected. I can confidently say that for the entirety of the outgoing board as well. > > You've stated that some people are distressed enough to cancel their > > membership -- so far I'm unaware of anyone who's done so. If the > > general opinion is that the organisation has been so compromised by > > non-disclosure that this election was not enough, then surely this will > > be borne out by a vote of the members. As it is, only 54 members out of > > 144 currently active voted in the election (up from 42 last year), and > > the members list is almost entirely silent except around election time. > > It'd certainly be nice if this newfound interest in the Foundation's > > health would be sustained beyond the election. > &g
Re: Board voting ends today, but...
Hi, On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 06:01:38PM +0100, Luc Verhaegen wrote: > On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 08:26:30AM -0800, Carl Worth wrote: > > Please, whenever you want more information from the board, please just > > ask. I can give you my personal assurance that there's no desire on the > > part of the board to willfully withhold information about its doings > > From the membership. > > I believe some things have been asked for already: > * minutes or logs. Bart is collating his logs, and those will be posted very soon. > * details of financial dealings. This is being worked on as well, TTBOMK. > Only a very limited amount of both has been made available. > > I am not sure whether 25% really is a sufficiently high percentage to > ever be able to claim that an election becomes invalid. Especially since > some people have already claimed that they do not wish to be a member if > transparency is this low. Well, the bylaws (which were voted on by the membership back in 2006 or thereabouts -- I believe you were a member at the time this was voted on and approved) state 25%. If anyone's got any suggestions for improving the bylaws, then I'm sure they'd be welcome, and the membership can vote on changing the bylaws again. Cancelling the election would in my view be phenomenally inappropriate: if that happened and someone suggested that the board canned the election because it didn't like the field, the timing, the way it was going, etc, then I would not have any good response to them. We've all (well, mostly) voted on a board that we're presumably happy with by now. If the membership is deeply unhappy after the election, then we can vote for a recall/secondary election. But cancelling the election and continuing indefinitely with the current board is something that would make me deeply uncomfortable, and more than anything I think smacks of wild impropriety. You've stated that some people are distressed enough to cancel their membership -- so far I'm unaware of anyone who's done so. If the general opinion is that the organisation has been so compromised by non-disclosure that this election was not enough, then surely this will be borne out by a vote of the members. As it is, only 54 members out of 144 currently active voted in the election (up from 42 last year), and the members list is almost entirely silent except around election time. It'd certainly be nice if this newfound interest in the Foundation's health would be sustained beyond the election. Cheers, Daniel pgpSNN5INbeHh.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Board voting ends today, but...
Hi, On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 05:33:05PM +0100, Matthias Hopf wrote: > On Feb 18, 10 21:45:07 +0000, Daniel Stone wrote: > > As far as I can tell (and I've not looked hard, because I'd like to > > escape the office early), XDS 2007 cost $US10k for the venue, around > > $US24k for travel sponsorship (no joke) > > As long as X.org has enough money I do not care too much about how much > money is spent for helping people getting to the event. I think the 2007 > event was a big success, so money well spent. > > That said, with the current funding we cannot do the same for another 10 > years :-] Well, we made the decision back in ... 2006, I think, to not rebill our sponsors, as we were accumulating cash much faster than we were spending it, with a huge bank balance. As someone mentioned earlier, obviously that will be re-evaluated at some stage. > > , and something like $US5k lost > > to PayPal (they decided we were scammers and took our money) as well as > > around $US5k that vanished into the Brazilian banking system, which > > gives us $US45k for one conference. > > Jikes! > I didn't know it was that much. Now thinking of it I do not remember > what we used PayPal for... Clare College would only accept one large group booking for accommodation (and accommodation is ridiculously expensive and generally quite hard to find in Cambridge outside the colleges), so we decided to book for most everyone coming to the conference and pay Clare ourselves, then collect the money off everyone who wasn't sponsored. At first, we tried to use PayPal for this. > Anyway, I'm rather interested what the Brazilian bank mafia had to do > with all this? I doubt anybody thought these scaming mails were for > real and something to be worth investing?!? Haha, of course not. :) It was wiring money to two of the Brazilians we sponsored to come to XDS 2007. Cheers, Daniel pgprQ2z4rTk5p.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Board voting ends today, but...
Hi Egbert, On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 01:13:41AM +0100, Egbert Eich wrote: > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:18:47PM +0000, Daniel Stone wrote: > > I'm pretty uncomfortable with the suggestion here. No, wait, very > > uncomfortable. (Not to mention that if any misuse of funds _did_ go on > > here, then it sucks to be me, because if that was the case, then I got > > not a single cent from my complicity.) > > Not sure how this relates to what I wrote above. I'd taken your comment to be about the Board rather than about PayPal, so my apologies there. Anyway, I'm not an expert on US vs. European financial law, so I don't have too much else to add. :) Cheers, Daniel pgpF4qkGu2AFT.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Board voting ends today, but...
Hi, On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 05:27:24PM -0800, Stephane Marchesin wrote: > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 13:45, Daniel Stone wrote: > > If you feel this is unacceptable and are looking to assign blame, the > > mail archives back me up that the entire thing was entirely my idea, and > > every single costing and proposal came from myself. > > I didn't mean to imply that, quite the opposite actually. I for one am > certainly grateful that X.Org funded my trip and lodging at XDS 2007. Sorry, I didn't mean for it to come out like that ... didn't mean you specifically, but anyone in general who would object to the expenditure. Would that we had better second- and third-person plurals in English! > Considering that: > - there is so much money in the bank (about 3 times what you need for > XDS 2007, *hint* *hint*), > - giving wide sponsorship makes these conferences better by gathering > more people > - the current economy does not help with funding conference trips > neither for the professional devs nor for the spare-time devs, > my opinion, and the point I was trying to make, is that we should have > more like that one... I fully agree. :) Cheers, Daniel pgpl3RzU54omq.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Board voting ends today, but...
Hi, On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 11:52:22PM +0100, Egbert Eich wrote: > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 09:45:07PM +0000, Daniel Stone wrote: > > As far as I can tell (and I've not looked hard, because I'd like to > > escape the office early), XDS 2007 cost $US10k for the venue, around > > $US24k for travel sponsorship (no joke), and something like $US5k lost > > to PayPal (they decided we were scammers and took our money) as well as > > This is actually interesting and it supports my feeling how finances > are handled and why I have given up doing any accounting. > > But maybe I'm wrong and I only have this feeling because things work > differently in the EU than in the US where an organization is able to > to pocket ones money by making false claims. I'm pretty uncomfortable with the suggestion here. No, wait, very uncomfortable. (Not to mention that if any misuse of funds _did_ go on here, then it sucks to be me, because if that was the case, then I got not a single cent from my complicity.) > It's not as if X.Org didn't have a legal counsel - I would have expected > that with the help of this the issue with PayPal could have been resolved > and the money been refunded. No, not really. If you read PayPal's T&Cs, it's mostly along the lines of 'we're entitled to all your money if we feel like it', and it turns out that they felt like it. I'd hoped to use Google Checkout originally, but had misread its T&Cs, which led me to believe that we were not eligible to use it -- turns out this wasn't actually true. So, again, mea culpa for being daft enough to use PayPal in the first place. http://www.paypalsucks.com and others have a litany of horror stories about PayPal pocketing cash from accounts they thought may have been vaguely kind of suspicious. > > If you feel this is unacceptable and are looking to assign blame, the > > mail archives back me up that the entire thing was entirely my idea, and > > every single costing and proposal came from myself. > > I don't think anyone is putting any blame on you as the organizer > of the event. > After all there was a justifiable reason for all the expenses and > there is no point arguing now if things could have been done at lower > costs. > It is more the intransparency of things which create an uncomfortable > feeling among some of the people here. No argument that we should've been and should be vastly more transparent. Cheers, Daniel pgprU8ZKO6BdO.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Board voting ends today, but...
Hi, On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 01:33:36PM -0800, Stephane Marchesin wrote: > On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 05:44, Luc Verhaegen wrote: > > There is little to no information about the X.org Foundation Boards > > financial handlings. Several years ago, several companies (at least one, > > Sun) deposited a lot of money into the foundation. It seems that the > > foundation had 222k usd at the start of 2007; and we have 125k usd > > today. We are not getting many details on how these funds were used, and > > we only get some very general statements about how these funds were used > > in the last year. And it seems that nobody on the actual board of > > directors has anything but some hazy ideas of what is going on. > > FWIW a fair chunk of that money went into XDS 2007. If you recall we > had a nice conference place and X.Org paid for hosting and trip for a > big number of people (which is also why the event grew so big and was > so successful, we never had such a big venue before and since then). *** * THIS IS ONLY MY RECOLLECTION FROM A TWO-MINUTE SCAN OF EMAIL. * * DO NOT TAKE IT AS GOSPEL, DO NOT RELY UPON IT AS ABSOLUTE TRUTH.* *** As far as I can tell (and I've not looked hard, because I'd like to escape the office early), XDS 2007 cost $US10k for the venue, around $US24k for travel sponsorship (no joke), and something like $US5k lost to PayPal (they decided we were scammers and took our money) as well as around $US5k that vanished into the Brazilian banking system, which gives us $US45k for one conference. *** * THIS IS ONLY MY RECOLLECTION FROM A TWO-MINUTE SCAN OF EMAIL. * * DO NOT TAKE IT AS GOSPEL, DO NOT RELY UPON IT AS ABSOLUTE TRUTH.* * * * SERIOUSLY. * *** If you feel this is unacceptable and are looking to assign blame, the mail archives back me up that the entire thing was entirely my idea, and every single costing and proposal came from myself. Cheers, Daniel pgpRkvasRkbyN.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X11 still uses /dev/mem ?
On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 05:54:18PM +0200, Nameer Yarkon wrote: > On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Adam Jackson wrote: > > most memory access goes through the PCI BAR resource files in sysfs, but > > i was expecting that if /dev/mem was abonded, then you will probably > have to call mmap() on a DRM specific driver node to get the mapping > you require. > > how is it technically done (manipulating memory via sysfs in a > performance-savvy way) ? What's your real question? i.e. what problem are you trying to solve? pgptomgVdKcEB.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X.Org Foundation Board of Directors 2010 Election
Hi, On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 01:05:14PM -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Chris Ball wrote: > >> expo (the 2U machine) was there originally, and this serves the > >> needs of *.x.org fairly well. The 3U machines were donated by > >> Sun and were earmarked for backup, redundancy, sharing fd.o > >> workload (including mirroring), etc. > > > > Does anyone happen to know the specs of the Sun machines? It'd be > > useful to know whether they have enough CPU and RAM to still make > > competitive servers -- if so, I'd volunteer to install an OS on them, > > else we might just unrack them and save the money, or buy something > > else. > > From my old e-mail, the order we submitted for then in 2005 was for 2 systems, > each with: > > Sun Fire V40z AMD Opteron 3U Rack Mnt x86 Server:2xAMD Opteron 850 CPUs, > 4 DDR1/333 Registered ECC DIMMs (4x1GB), 1x73GB 10K RPM Ultra320 SCSI disk, > 2x 10/100/1000 Ethernet ports, RAID 1,LOM, 4xFull Hght/Full-Lgth 64 bit/133 > MHz > PCI-X slots, 1xFull Hgt/Full-Lgth and 1xFull Hgt/Half-Lgth 64-bit /100MHz > slots,1xHalfHght/Half Lgth 64-bit/66MHz PCI-X slot, DVD/flpy incl- 2 redundant > > plus 4 additional 300GB 10K 300GB 10K RPM Ultra320 SCSI disks to split between > them. Thanks for that. It's not _too_ bad (though still, as I said, my desktop is faster), but I don't see any reason we couldn't put them to use as backup/redundancy, with one running as an i386 + amd64 tinderbox, though virtualisation seems wholly pointless if we can't do it in hardware. Right now annarchy:/home is only 15GB, but it was certainly a great deal more before it all vanished, and I expect it to get absolutely huge again, which is part of the reason we were reluctant to back it up. Hopefully it doesn't outgrow our capacity too badly. (Also, just doing the backup can bring the machine to its knees for an hour or two.) Cheers, Daniel pgpQNXibP7Nrn.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X.Org Foundation Board of Directors 2010 Election
On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 11:45:35AM -0700, Cody Maloney wrote: > Since there's been a lot of other server stuff thrown around, anyone > have any idea how much bandwidth fd.o uses? I don't have any numbers to hand I'm afraid -- which is a bit of a failing. I'll try to get some numbers out from now on, but we have pushed a couple of terabytes in the space of less than a week before. Cheers, Daniel pgpve6YdLtsZj.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X.Org Foundation Board of Directors 2010 Election
Hi, On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 07:00:40PM +0100, Matthias Hopf wrote: > On Feb 16, 10 09:20:44 -0800, Keith Packard wrote: > > On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:54:56 +0100, Matthias Hopf wrote: > > > But something like $100 / month sounds like a reasonable upper limit for > > > me, and you should actually get by for half of it. > > > > We've got three servers and a switch; the 3U servers are $1200/year, and > > the 2U server + switch is $600. > > Thanks for the insight, Keith! > > These prices look reasonable for rented servers. Question is rather > > 1) are the servers in X.org's possession or rented Two of them are kind of in X.Org's possession, but have effectively been donated to MIT by Sun with the caveat that they're for the exclusive use of the X.Org Foundation (yeah, I know this is weird -- shrug). The other (expo.x.org, which is actually online) I believe to be in the Foundation's possession, but I can't say for sure. > 2) why we had this many servers at all expo (the 2U machine) was there originally, and this serves the needs of *.x.org fairly well. The 3U machines were donated by Sun and were earmarked for backup, redundancy, sharing fd.o workload (including mirroring), etc. > 3) why are 3U servers needed (drives, or are they just in the possession >of Xorg - in that case buing some new cheaper to host hardware might >be interesting) It's just what we got. I'm reasonably surprised that 3U space apparently costs as much as 2x 2U spaces though ... hm. In any case, I don't see anything particularly wrong with 3U. Certainly, it doesn't make any sense at all to go to 1U: most (close to all, really) of the fd.o performance problems we've had have come from crap disks, and you don't get better disks with a smaller form factor. If we're going to buy hardware, then I'd personally recommend 2U units (the HP ProLiant DL385s we have for fd.o have been fantastic), but as these were donated and aren't a significant financial drain relative to our funding base, I don't see any reason to ditch them if they're useful to us. Certainly it would be useful to get them up and running for backups, maybe testing, and redundancy at some point in the future. We actually tried a while ago, but had myriad issues with them and ended up just leaving it. > Going forward it's probably a good thing that we have enough server > power, and I assume it's just the good ol' "nobody has any time left to > work on that" issue. :-/ :) Cheers, Daniel pgpXmXlrDThez.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X.Org Foundation Board of Directors 2010 Election
On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 06:11:38PM +0100, Luc Verhaegen wrote: > On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 05:01:28PM +0000, Daniel Stone wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 04:45:09PM +, Alan Cox wrote: > > > Seems pretty extrodinary. Exactly what can't say bluehost provide at > > > $3.95 a month that MIT can at $250/month ? > > > > In fairness, I believe there are four machines currently racked up, even > > if three of them are doing nothing whatsoever. > > Cool, can one be used to back up our home directories? Possibly, and now that fd.o actually has a real admin rather than a couple of already-overworked developers, maybe that will actually happen. pgprcJ11cmU6y.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Dual-head config broke with update to 1.4.2
[I started a longer reply, but apathy took over.] On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 11:53:55AM -0500, Martin Cracauer wrote: > I just wonder what Xorg's intended endgame is? The direct equivalent > of what MS Windows had for a decade or longer, with everything that > made Unix/X11 stand out being removed? What's the point of that > exercise? What's the point of your mail? (No, seriously.) pgp3YzaKqVxj3.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X.Org Foundation Board of Directors 2010 Election
On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 04:45:09PM +, Alan Cox wrote: > On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:07:32 +0100 Matthias Hopf wrote: > > On Feb 16, 10 07:26:35 -0800, Keith Packard wrote: > > > Our outstanding obligations today are MIT hosting for this year ($3000) > > > and travel expenses for FOSDEM 2010 ($660). > > > > Not that it matters too much, but $3000 sounds pretty hefty for hosting. > > OTOH I don't know hardware, bandwidth, or what is included (backup etc.). > > Seems pretty extrodinary. Exactly what can't say bluehost provide at > $3.95 a month that MIT can at $250/month ? In fairness, I believe there are four machines currently racked up, even if three of them are doing nothing whatsoever. Cheers, Daniel pgpUvBwCyXwJy.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X.Org Foundation Board of Directors 2010 Election
Hi, (Speaking as an ex-Board member.) On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 08:54:27AM +0100, ps wrote: > As X.Org is the successor of the XConsortium, I expect there should be a > roadmap of where X Window development is heading and how much money is > needed to reach these goals and how these funds are expected to be raised. X.Org is the successor of the Consortium, yes: X.Org the technical organisation as well as the X.Org Foundation. X.Org the project is a very loose conglomeration of various developers of various affiliations who do the development, make decisions, make releases, et al. The Foundation is the body which receives and doles out the money, whose membership is primarily drawn from X.Org. So, if you want a technical roadmap, consult X.Org. If you want a financial overview, consult the Foundation. These two are entirely separate -- paid-for development is explicitly _not_ the job of the Foundation -- for good reason. The Consortium was some kind of unbelievable disaster, and if you don't believe this, then have a look at the pre-X.Org releases, particularly as to how they compared to their contemporary windowing systems. If there's any particular development you'd like to see done, then there are quite a few companies who employ X developers (including mine) who accept consulting clients. Our operators are waiting to take your call, etc. > Is there such a roadmap? Well, this list. From the Foundation, no, and hopefully never. Cheers, Daniel pgpQDMHniTEFt.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X.Org Foundation Board of Directors 2010 Election
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 01:46:21PM -0600, David Nicol wrote: > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Daniel Stone wrote: > > (If > > people want to get paid for hacking X, just mention it and you'll have > > quite a few companies beating down your door ...) > > You must be exaggerating. Nope. > Anyway, I'm running as "the outsider." Best of luck? Cheers, Daniel pgpwYSTsRmnVR.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: keyboard LEDs don't work
Hi, On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 07:29:40PM +0300, Peter Vypov wrote: > I have a problem with keyboard LEDs: they don't work under X Window > System. They don't turn on when I press Caps Lock, Num Lock or Scroll > Lock. But they do work under virtualizers like VMware or QEMU (If I > press Num Lock, the Num Lock LED will turn on under VMware, but not > under real machine). > The keys themselves still work. > > xorg-xserver version = 1.4, xf86-input-keyboard version = 1.2.2. This > is a custom Linux distribution (Linux kernel version = 2.4.35.1). 1.4 is quite impressively old, and quite thoroughly unsupported as well; you should definitely upgrade to a more recent X server + input modules, where LEDs now work. Cheers, Daniel pgpqRDMNBWgBb.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X.Org Foundation Board of Directors 2010 Election
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 05:26:46PM -0600, David Nicol wrote:
> It seems that the X bylaws allow for outsider participation,
Yeah, they do.
> perhaps
> to provide oversight to mitigate developer-driven coolitis (not as bad
> a malady as featuritis, but still suboptimal), and that has attracted
> me.
The X.Org Foundation not only lacks a technical direction role, but very
explicitly does not have one. It is, in a sense, the court of last
arbitration, and is concerned with the health of X.Org (as distinct from
the Foundation) as a whole, but does _not_ have any form of day-to-day
technical oversight. I don't expect this to change any time soon.
> That and the fact that you do Borda counting.
Er. :)
> Aside from the hopefully redundant role of focus maintainer,
If you want to maintain focus, the lists are the place to do so, rather
than through the Foundation.
> Aside from hoping that any Tools For Organzations I bring will be
> useful, and hoping that my sense of focus will be helpful, I also
> bring a desire to see a general world-wide bounty clearinghouse set up
> for adding features to open-source projects. I think that X might be a
> good place to start by establishing a general-purpose bounty system
> for X development projects that do not carry either sufficient
> intrinsic amusement value to attract volunteer developers or
> sufficient business value to trigger deployment of professionals.
> That's not general purpose, that's special purpose, but by creating a
> bounty system with a more general vision, the system may spill over
> into other realms, much as Orkut is now widely used in South America
> and India, surprising those who launched it originally.
To be honest, I'm incredibly skeptical of bounty systems after seeing
them fail quite spectacularly for both GNOME and Ubuntu in 2004 --
noting also that GNOME and Ubuntu have very large casual
('opportunistic' seems to be the current buzzword) development
communities, which bounties are generally targeted at, whereas X.Org has
a very small base of casual contributors.
This is something that has been very rapidly improving and definitely
needs to continue improving, but I don't think bounties would be a good
idea right now. Perhaps it's worth talking to some of the people
involved in the original bounty craze in free software a few years ago;
I think at least of the GNOME guys even posted somewhat of a post-mortem
for the bounty program online somewhere. But yeah, our problem seems to
be much more lack of time (combined with a high barrier to entry for
casual contributions), rather than lack of financial incentive. (If
people want to get paid for hacking X, just mention it and you'll have
quite a few companies beating down your door ...)
Cheers,
Daniel
pgpZp2GD41gfn.pgp
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Re: X.Org Foundation Board of Directors 2010 Election
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 02:14:58AM +0100, Luc Verhaegen wrote: > Disclaimer: All of this is off the top of my head. I could be and am > probably wrong on some of the details. This does not represent an > official statement on behalf of the Foundation, etc, etc. ^ Again, this bit is important ... > > I have co-signed every check since 2005. Keith has given me a verbal on > > the balance from time to > > time, but I haven't seen a written or historical accounting in a while. > > I trust Keith doesn't want to > > do something dumb like bounce a check, and you can ask him about how > > skeptical and severe > > I am when it comes to COUNTER-signing. After all, most of this money > > originated from my employer. > > My question was more about how it could be possible that there seems to > be a rather large discrepancy between what you think should be in the > accounts, and what Daniel, a board member not handling funds, thinks > should be in the accounts. This seems a weird situation. I had an extremely rough guess at what I thought the current balance may be, after having made no inquiries with people who would know better. I thought the repeated disclaimers would be enough to make this clear, but I guess not. :\ To make it even more clear: that was a guess. If other people who have actually been handling money (or attending meetings, etc) think it's wrong, then I would assume they're correct. Don't read anything more into what I've said than sheer guesswork and rough off-the-top-of-my-head-at-2am-after-staring-at-Xlib estimates. Oh well, I tried. pgpvmuYTNmlh5.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X.Org Foundation Board of Directors 2010 Election
Hi, On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 03:17:16PM -0800, Stuart Kreitman wrote: > On 02/10/10 11:47 AM, Daniel Stone wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 06:31:32PM +0100, Luc Verhaegen wrote: > >> The X.org Foundation exists to best represent the interests of the X.org > >> Foundation members, by being the legal entity responsible for the state > >> of the Foundation. To a large extent, its responsibility is to manage > >> the considerable amount of funds that the X.org foundation has gathered > >> over the years, in the best interest of these X.org foundation members. > > > > Rather. For the record, I think the current balance is on the order of > > ~$us150k. Around the time we dissolved the sponsors' group, we decided > > > As co-signer of the checks, that sounds really high, My guess is that its > knocked down to 1/2 that by now, but I haven't seen the exact balance for > a few years now. This needs to be sorted before comittments for the next > conference are made.Keith? Yeah, fair. Now I think of it, it's probably closer to $us100k, if not ~80. > > I assume that this will be re-evaluated within the next couple of years, > > assuming that we continue to spend money (again, my personal opinion and > > guesswork only). > > A good action item for the next Board would be to set the bar for when > to start fundraising. Indeed; the timeline is completely dependent on our current balance and burn rate both. Cheers, Daniel pgp6UzWBzNc9B.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X.Org Foundation Board of Directors 2010 Election
Hi, On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 09:56:08PM +0100, Luc Verhaegen wrote: > I have no idea when such meetings are supposed to be held, how regular > there are. No such information is available publically, or at least not > available to my knowledge. #xorg-bod on OFTC, fortnightly. I think it's something like 10AM Wednesdays, Portland time? > Secondly, if it happens openly on irc anyway, why not put the logs up on > the wiki? Nothing easier than that. There's no particular reason this hasn't been done. > Third point: you say that the state of the foundation is being > disclosed at every XDC. Unless you want to send every X.org foundation > member over on a then very limited amount of Xorg foundation money, > please make the details available on the wiki. This is very little work. > Heck, since we are in the iphone generation anyway, how hard is it to > organise a short video or audio recording which can serve as a basis for > this? Well, if you'd read the entire mail you'd quoted ... ;) As I said, I agree with you that all of these things: reports of what the Foundation's been up to should absolutely be on the wiki, including _all_ of our financial details. I don't think anyone disagrees, and in fact I think pretty much everyone is on the record as agreeing. Kind of like how we agree that X should be the best windowing system around. That it's not right now, doesn't reflect any lack of insight on the behalf of the current developer base, mainly just lack of time. > All of these things seem to be easy to fix, without much in the way of > overhead. Why were none of these things thought of directly? Of course they've been thought of, it's just that no-one's done them. If I have spare time to throw at either X.Org the technical project or the X.Org Foundation, then the former wins. I suspect a lot of the others are in the same boat. > I am the first person to think of this, because that's just who i am. > Since then I have heard of several others who confirmed my sentiments. Er, you're not actually the first person to think of it; as you pointed out, they are indeed very obvious. And we were posting meeting summaries to the wiki for a while (you linked to some in your first mail), but that was some time ago now. Cheers, Daniel pgpg0vclW0Ev8.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X.Org Foundation Board of Directors 2010 Election
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 11:42:33AM -0600, David Nicol wrote: > A vote for David Nicol is a vote for transparency! Full transparency into exactly what all the board members know still wouldn't tell you much more than what you already know. Cheers, Daniel pgpDyxf8wm54o.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X.Org Foundation Board of Directors 2010 Election
(tl;dr: Yes, I agree that the Foundation needs to be doing a lot more, but nothing we've done is hidden from our members, i.e. board members know basically as much as you, and that this is a result of lack of time/etc, rather than any desire to keep any information private. Yes, we should be doing better.) Hi, Disclaimer: All of this is off the top of my head. I could be and am probably wrong on some of the details. This does not represent an official statement on behalf of the Foundation, etc, etc. On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 06:31:32PM +0100, Luc Verhaegen wrote: > The X.org Foundation exists to best represent the interests of the X.org > Foundation members, by being the legal entity responsible for the state > of the Foundation. To a large extent, its responsibility is to manage > the considerable amount of funds that the X.org foundation has gathered > over the years, in the best interest of these X.org foundation members. Rather. For the record, I think the current balance is on the order of ~$us150k. Around the time we dissolved the sponsors' group, we decided to temporarily stop seeking funds from previous financial contributors, as we already had more than enough to fund our operations for several years. I assume that this will be re-evaluated within the next couple of years, assuming that we continue to spend money (again, my personal opinion and guesswork only). > (for those who wonder about the "best interest of the X.org foundation > members", this translates to "in the best interest of the X.org > community, but the organization can only officially care about those who > signed up") I wouldn't say that's really true at all. The X.Org Foundation's mission is to do things which benefit the X.Org community as a whole, rather than just its members. As an example, we agreed to sponsor the video hackfest, despite many of the people present not even being X.Org developers, let alone Foundation members, as we felt it would advance the cause of X.Org in general. When we sponsor individuals, we strongly encourage them to become Foundation members if they are not already, but our remit is not limited to them. Otherwise non-Foundation members would have to be excluded from XDC/XDS, lest Foundation spending benefit non-members. I think this is entirely fair, and see no reason to change it. > This is what the bylaws state: "The Board shall keep minutes of its > meetings in which shall be recorded all action taken by it, and at least > a summary thereof shall be submitted to the Members at least annually." > [1] > > The last time the members were informed about anything to this end was > in Oktober 2006 [2]. We've been doing an abysmal job at keeping minutes, but in fairness, this isn't because of any particular desire to keep anything closed. Part of the reason I resigned is because of timezones: you get to pick any two out of America, Europe, and Asia-Pacific when you have meetings. It's unfair to ask the bulk of the board to shift into inconvenient timezones and I can't make it work with my schedule, so I haven't been able to make it to meetings. I don't even particularly know what goes on in the meetings because I kept forgetting to rejoin the board meeting channel, and minutes weren't generated for the board list, either. Bear in mind though that the channel is open and meetings are held at a regular time, so everyone has as much opportunity to find out what goes on during the meetings as me. :) > For me, an Xorg foundation member who approved these bylaws, the only > point for being a member of the X.org foundation is to have some insight > into and, through the yearly elections, have a say over how the X.org > funds are being used. > > And it seems that, without knowing how the X.org foundation funds are > being used, there is little point in having an election. Sure, that's fair. One of our appointed duties is to produce a financial report every year. This is presented, along with the current 'state of the Foundation', at every XDC/XDS. I believe this was presented at XDC2009, but not recorded in detail as the note-takers were all board members. For what it's worth, our ability to do anything financial is constrained by the ongoing saga that is our transition from a Delaware-registered LLC, where legally the only people who have any say are the original eight board members, to a 501(c)(3) non-profit, in which the board is more directly answerable to its members. However, between the elections and such, the board already directly answers to its members. > How can we decide who will best represent the X.org foundation members > interests in the future, if we have absolutely no insight as to what has > happened in the past? > > Is there any chance that this important information becomes available to > the X.org Foundation members still? Yes, our financial reports should definitely be available for all years dating back to the
Re: Remote X
On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 01:18:01AM +1100, Russell Shaw wrote: > Is remote execution of X clients away from the X server still regarded > as a design goal, or does everyone just develop for client applications > that only run on or close to the X server machine? > > With a unicode text widget, every time a character is entered, the > line or paragraph(s) need to be moved and/or reshaped. This can mean > sending a few largish bitmaps for every key press. Other toolkits > may add new polygon tesselated glyphs to the XRender cache: > > http://www.keithp.com/~keithp/talks/usenix2001/ > http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/proto/renderproto/plain/renderproto.txt > > With a cursive font, all the cursive glyphs on a line could compress > when the line is close to full, but before the need for a linebreak. > That would stress out the cache advantage of XRender. Another problem > with XRender is that it's computationally expensive for small systems > without polygon hardware. As always, if you are facing any actual particular problem, bug reports and patches are more than welcome. pgpTYfbdqJoG3.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X11 fullscreen
On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 12:04:41AM +1100, Russell Shaw wrote:
> Daniel Stone wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 10:53:11AM +1100, Russell Shaw wrote:
> >> One can make their own widget libraries based on Xlib, then write apps
> >> using the libraries. Nothing hard about that ("hard" is relative;)
> >
> > It's not 'hard' in the sense of being groundbreaking CS research, no,
> > but it would take an immense amount of time to get non-Western scripts
> > (including bidi), accessibility, copy & paste, full ICCCM compliance
> > including doing the right thing with EWMH, input (including input
> > methods), selections, etc working properly and correctly. Oh, and your
> > app doesn't look anything like any other app now.
>
> All that is done to a degree. Theming engine allows apps to look and act
> like any other system. Once you architect the full depth of the problem
> with minimal things that work at every stage, you can add more parallelable
> features whenever required.
OK, sounds like it should be pretty easy for you to knock up?
> > Ooh yeah, and your app has no concept of double-clicking. You could
> > reimplement it and have it be completely different to the rest of the
> > system (different maximum time between clicks, different maximum
> > distance between click positions, etc) if you like. All the little
> > stuff like this really does add up.
>
> Would you like a ctrl-shift+triple-middle-click popup menu? I only make
> useability different if i know it's the right thing to do.
No, I just want double-clicking to work.
> > Please, please, stop telling people to write their own toolkits; it's
> > quite possibly the worst advice I've ever heard on this list, to be
> > honest.
>
> I didn't say it would be unconditionally easy, but to solve an
> immediate engineering problem of drawing to a full screen and having
> a menu, Xlib + OpenGL + Glut is fairly easy.
I assume their requirements will eventually run deeper than 'full
screen, one menu'.
> Progressing on from that and creating new widgets is useful innovation
> that can solve many more problems.
No, it's not useful innovation at all.
> All the answers to do anything you want is available on the web, email
> lists, and in books. It's definitely not quick and easy to do the whole
> thing.
No, hence why someone asking how to do something eye-wateringly simple,
we should recommend they use existing toolkits.
> I wouldn't be recommending any of this if i found existing widget toolkits
> easy to make new non-trivial widgets that run well. I've battled widget
> toolkits since Windows95. The code for various existing X toolkits is
> inpenetrable, and made overly complex for porting to non-X systems
> that i don't require. Having thought through many problems, these
> codebases can be more comprehensible, but what's the use when one
> has had to figure out how to make a toolkit in order to figure out
> how to fix one?
He doesn't want non-trivial widgets, he wants full-screen and a menu,
remember? That's not something that requires fixing a toolkit.
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Re: Re-mapping the middlemouse paste functionality
On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 06:19:48PM +, Ross Burton wrote: > On Fri, 2010-01-29 at 10:58 -0500, Adrian Sud wrote: > > Any googling and browsing of FAQs finds ways to disable the 2nd mouse button > > entirely, or map the 2nd mouse button to another button (causing all other > > functions tied to the 2nd mouse button to move to that other button as > > well). Am I to assume that this is not a configurable thing? > > xmodmap should let you reassign the button codes (so the middle button > is 7 and some side button is 2), but I suspect that this has changed now > that XKB is ruling. Worth a go though. xmodmap is still fully supported, and if it's broken, please file bugs. Cheers, Daniel pgpdLPsGSyrRT.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X11 fullscreen
On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 12:10:11PM +1100, Russell Shaw wrote: > None of this really matters because i don't care if i'm the only one that > uses this stuff. I'd prefer to be ignored as a troll because I have a better > job than programming all day and just hack on it as a hobby for my own use. > Would have been good to see existing software a bit better though. > I'm now productive so i'm happy. I'm glad to hear it, but yeah, this is hugely offtopic for x...@. pgpULTMOS8zbw.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X11 fullscreen
On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 12:13:23AM +1100, Russell Shaw wrote: > This means abstracting > everything with pointer indirections leading to slow Any performance problems you may have are not caused by excessive pointer dereferences. > feature-bare toolkits. Which features are you missing from current toolkits? > Instead, X should have been ported > to those systems and the widget toolkits should have only been a > slight bit of sugar around an enhanced Xlib. If i ever do anything > cross-platform, it will only be when an Xlib or an enhanced replacement > of it is ported. I very much look forward to your new X toolkit: please let us know when it's available. In the meantime, let's just limit our recommendations to things that exist. pgpkSNKCrDYmD.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X11 fullscreen
On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 10:53:11AM +1100, Russell Shaw wrote:
> Glynn Clements wrote:
> > Russell Shaw wrote:
> >> Forget widget toolkits. They're totally lame wrappers that hide
> >> all the useful functionality from you, run like a waterlogged
> >> sheep, and otherwise assume you don't want to get anything really
> >> nontrivial running this month.
> >
> > On the contrary, using bare Xlib you would be hard pressed to write
> > even a trivial application within a month unless you're willing to
> > give up a lot of features which many people would take for granted
> > (e.g. configuration, support for multiple locales, interoperability
> > with other applications, etc).
> >
> > As with many things, being different is automatically a loss, so you
> > have to do better on the other aspects just to break even.
>
> One can make their own widget libraries based on Xlib, then write apps
> using the libraries. Nothing hard about that ("hard" is relative;)
It's not 'hard' in the sense of being groundbreaking CS research, no,
but it would take an immense amount of time to get non-Western scripts
(including bidi), accessibility, copy & paste, full ICCCM compliance
including doing the right thing with EWMH, input (including input
methods), selections, etc working properly and correctly. Oh, and your
app doesn't look anything like any other app now.
Ooh yeah, and your app has no concept of double-clicking. You could
reimplement it and have it be completely different to the rest of the
system (different maximum time between clicks, different maximum
distance between click positions, etc) if you like. All the little
stuff like this really does add up.
Please, please, stop telling people to write their own toolkits; it's
quite possibly the worst advice I've ever heard on this list, to be
honest.
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Re: X11 fullscreen
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:41:04PM +1100, Russell Shaw wrote: > Forget widget toolkits. They're totally lame wrappers that hide > all the useful functionality from you, run like a waterlogged > sheep, and otherwise assume you don't want to get anything really > nontrivial running this month. > > You should read up on Xlib and OpenGL programming. This may not be > quick or easy, depending on background, but is worth it if you have > ongoing use for it. If you ignore any advice this year, please make it this. Cheers, Daniel pgpQXuOJqUouz.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Keyboard buttons event-based or device based?
Hi, On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:22:56AM +0100, Crypto wrote: > I am not sure if this is related to xorg, maybe it is related to KDE, Gnome > etc. > > I often connect an external USB keyboard to my notebook for faster typing. > > In KDE etc. (i.e. GUI) applications it is often possible to re-assign > keyboard > events to particular menu entries of that application so that one gets new > keyboard shortcuts. > > [...] > > What do you think? With Xi2, X already tells the application and toolkit exactly which device generated the event, and allows grabs to be made on a per-device basis. So yeah, X already makes this possible today. Cheers, Daniel pgpmQltUWE3iw.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Intel driver problem
On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 10:09:47AM +0100, Dirk De Becker wrote: > I am trying to use the intel driver (version 2.9.1) on a gentoo system > with xorg version 1.6.3.901-r2. > If I startx, I get the following output on screen (and X obviously does > not start): > Setting master > expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet > expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet > expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet > expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet > expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet > expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet Your xkeyboard-config dataset is newer than libX11; you need to build a newer libX11, or edit XKeySymDB. Cheers, Daniel pgpcjVQcQlai8.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Visuals
On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 01:01:08PM +1100, Russell Shaw wrote: > When i do xpyinfo, i get 29 visuals the same: > [...] > > Why isn't there just one of each type of visual? If you look at the output of glxinfo, you'll see that each visual has different GL attributes. Cheers, Daniel pgpBLfAxIv5Il.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: X11 XTEST Error when starting Xine
On Mon, Jan 04, 2010 at 10:54:00PM -0500, Jim Duda wrote: > Thanks for the post Dan. > > I tried both of these, removing XKeysymDB and rebuilding libX11. > Unfortunately, neither of these worked. I get the same errors. > The version I downloaded was more recent that the version which > comes with fedora 11. Weird. Could you attach the output from all of the below, for both working and broken? $ locale $ strace ./keycode $ xkbcomp -xkb :0 foo $ xmodmap -pk Cheers, Daniel pgpygkCu0k9xM.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: [ANNOUNCE] xorg-server 1.7.99.2
On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 09:00:25AM +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote: > On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 11:58:08AM -0800, Dan Nicholson wrote: > > +if test "$cross_compiling" != yes; then This should be if ! test "x$cross_compiling" = xyes. Cheers, Daniel pgpIYxDa5F1Qp.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: touchscreens in multiscreen setups
Hi, On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:35:16PM -0800, Keith Packard wrote: > I'd say tablets and touch screens should report raw device coordinates > and let the X server transform them as appropriate. It'd be really cool > if we could make all absolute devices report position in floating point > using a [0..1] range on each axis. I think. The X server would then > transform those as appropriate. I think all that would take is a new > PostMotionEvent function that took doubles instead of ints; fixed > drivers would use that, broken drivers would continue to report > coordinates as they do today. Modulo floating point, this is how it's happened since approximately forever ... Cheers, Daniel pgpquH8RLKkPP.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: radeonhd blank screens
On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 12:14:48AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Monday 07 December 2009, Daniel Stone wrote: > >And does the problem occur with the radeon (not radeonhd) driver? > > I have not checked recently Daniel. The last time I did check, it was ok, > but radeon was refreshing the screen really slowly, making it difficult to > scroll in FF and similar apps. I believe the ati module makes that choice, > but let me check the log, brb. > > Hmmm, brb was a rather optimistic statement. Switching /etc/X11/xorg.conf to > define the radeon driver instead of the radeonhd results in an x server crash > and no video from either output on the card, and is not recoverable with a > ctl-alt-bsp. ctl-alt-del gets me a boatload of dirty inodes cleaned up > messages on the reboot too. And once I had to use the hdwe reset to reboot > it, I tried it several times with the same no signal to the monitor results, > I'd guess at less than 500 milliseconds after I hit the return on a startx. > > So I am back on the radeonhd driver and things are hopefully back to as > normal as they usually are. > > Is this helpful? That's obviously quite bad ... if you can file a bug, I'm sure Alex will get it fixed. Cheers, Daniel pgpd58LQDmDzQ.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: radeonhd blank screens
On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 10:14:31PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Monday 07 December 2009, tsuraan wrote: > >These drivers sound seriously > >unloved. > > Yes, for the rv610 based cards in particular. The guys have seemingly danced > all the way around it like its a pile of smelly poo. Heck, Alex promised me > good drivers before Christmas. 2008 that is. ;) This (radeonhd-1.25) is > usable, till the touchies start, then you may as well reboot cuz that is the > only thing that fixes it for a while. And does the problem occur with the radeon (not radeonhd) driver? pgpKlFKOU88YI.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: [OT] e-mail license
Hi, On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 03:07:50PM +0100, Yann Droneaud wrote: > Did you know you're writing to a public mailing list ? So the content of > your mail is not going to be "confidential" and "disclosure, > distribution [and] copying" is going to happen. In fact is already > happened. > > This message is disclosed in mailing list archives, like here > http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2009-December/048266.html > > The license (it seems be a licence: it uses the same wording and sounds > like) seems not adapted for Internet days ... > > I hope the SNCF (Société National des Chemins de Fer) is not going to > enforce it ... > > For all: is there a policy about it ? No, there's no policy about it because the reality is, as others have said, that people are often forced to use their corporate mail system which adds that disclaimer[0], and they have no say in it. Banning them from the list would add an arbitrary barrier and be quite petty. Besides, I didn't even notice that disclaimer (years of skipping practice), yet I _definitely_ noticed this subthread, and spent a lot longer reading it than I've ever been distracted by a disclaimer. So yeah, the policy is pretty much 'censor with your eyes'. Cheers, Daniel [0]: Or maybe something like Nokia's, which prepends 'ext' to the name of every external sender: you'll notice that on the list from time to time. pgpF25DDyKVed.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: xinput: Do I want xorg.conf? Do I want hal? Do I want udev?
Hi, On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 01:25:08AM +0100, olafbuddenha...@gmx.net wrote: > On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 09:55:22AM +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote: > > If you don't want a session manager or you prefer a different desktop > > environment - you're on your own. > > Let me remind you that GNOME is not an operating system. It is just a > frontend. > > It is nice if it provides a nice shiny tool to configure stuff; but it > has no business *storing*, and *applying* such settings, which don't > really have anything to do with GNOME at all. These should be pushed > down to some generic infrastructure, which is not desktop-specific, and > in fact not X-specific at all. > > Unfortunately, it appears that such a generic session-aware hotplug > infrastructure is yet to be invented... I'm sure both GNOME and KDE would love you for writing one that both had no complaints with, and was perfectly integrated with both. And Xfce. And Moblin. And Maemo. And fvwm2, and fluxbox, and my 'sudo Xorg :0 -noreset &| ~/bin/de &|'. Looking forward to it! :) Cheers, Daniel pgpWm7vowqlqr.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: lolita underage, nn pre teen galleries, naked preteen, preteen underage, loli board
On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 11:21:28AM +0300, Charmaine Brugnoli wrote: > [spam] So sorry about this. I've unsubscribed them now. Grr. pgpvcOZ3k9GK2.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: [PATCH] evdev: Support the "Calibration" string option.
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:52:13AM +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote: > I don't know how many features evtouch provides aside from dejittering and > the right-click emulation (both of which would be perfectly appropriate for > evdev btw). You don't think dejittering is more appropriate for the kernel? Cheers, Daniel pgpg8GlqX0DZ5.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: [PATCH] xfree86: Edid quirk for Philips LCD LP154W01
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 06:04:58PM +0800, yakui.z...@intel.com wrote: > Move the EDID quirk for Philips LCD LP154W01 as the panel reports the vertical > size in cm. Err, I think it's safe to say that this was seen the first seven times it was posted ... Cheers, Daniel pgpQwltQFkN0K.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Keypressed/Keyreleased events not reaching my code
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 11:28:44PM -0600, Scott Sibley wrote: > Hello. I'm writing an LCD controller, and one feature I'd like is the > ability to interact with an LCD via the keyboard. I have the following code, > but only the FocusOut/FocusIn events are firing. Either there's a passive grab, or your focus is on the wrong window. Cheers, Daniel pgp4i9sh7PniZ.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Install documentation
On Mon, Nov 09, 2009 at 01:01:13PM -0500, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote: > On Monday 09 November 2009 12:25:43 Jorge Hernandez wrote: > > Is there any documentation that describes how to install x.org on a Free > > BSD system? I downloaded all the source files but I don't know what to do > > with them. > > > > Any help will be gladly appreciated. > > Is there some reason you don't want to use Xorg from the FreeBSD ports tree? > If you're a glutton for punishment: > > http://wiki.x.org/wiki/ModularDevelopersGuide > http://www.x.org/wiki/JhBuildInstructions > > I have no idea how well either of them really work on FreeBSD. Or, since we can never have enough: http://www.x.org/wiki/Development/BuildingX Cheers, Daniel pgprFweffHm05.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Finishing the X11R7.5 katamari
On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 10:01:58PM -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > (xkbproto isn't yet, but I'm leaving that for Daniel to decide if > the changes sitting in git are ready to go and should be included > in 7.5 or wait until later.) All I'm seeing in master since 1.0.3 is a change from #defines to typedefs for defining Status, et al, which is fine by me. Am I missing anything? Cheers, Daniel pgpPrLVFBO4Ou.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Finishing the X11R7.5 katamari
On Sat, Oct 03, 2009 at 09:13:57AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Saturday 03 October 2009, Mark Kettenis wrote: > >I still use xinit/startx to start X, and very much *do* consider it to > >be an essential part of X. > > +1000, Amen and hip hip hooray. I have never started X any other way, and > consider it the only safe way to get a gui. > > Please do NOT remove that. Ever. > > IMO 7.5 will be broken horribly if its not included. It's still there. You can still download and install it, we're just not suggesting it form a part of the default install set. We're never going to remove the code, or the tarballs. Cheers, Daniel pgpR5NzQv5ahk.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
fd.o services outage, annarchy $HOME lost
Hi all, Cutting and pasting from my blog entry[0] because I'm lazy: > As ajax quite elegantly summed up[1], due to a series of catastrophic > power failures at PSU, where fd.o is hosted, we were down for a good > chunk of yesterday. Despite the machines having redundant power > supplies, being connected to separate power rails in the rack, which > were hooked up to independent, UPS-backed, power supplies, we still > (like a good chunk of Portland, and certainly everyone in the PSU > machine room) lost our power. > > As far as we can tell, when annarchy.fd.o (websites, people.fd.o, cgit, > anongit, et al) came back up, power was again interrupted while the > ext3 journal was being replayed. When it came up the n'th time, fsck > dumped almost the entire filesystem in lost+found, then started saying > increasingly unhappy things about the state of the filesystem on its > second pass. In the end, we just went with mkfs, and now we have a > brand new and shiny filesystem. > > It's worth pointing out that even if this was another filesystem, such > as /srv, which hosts all project data, we would've been fine, as > they're all backed up. But, unfortunately for some, we made a decision > a while ago to not back /home up, and didn't advertise that as widely as > we should have. So, if you had stuff in annarchy:/home, it's now gone, > and I hope you have backups. > > Sorry about that. On the upside, I got to see PSU's new and really very > nice machine room this morning, thanks to XDC being about 250m away > from the PSU machine room, and fd.o is otherwise running fine. We've > been talking this week about replacing our ageing hardware, which would > also allow for more redundancy as well as better performance from those > machines. But we still have no plans to back up /home, so if you put > stuff there, please, please keep your own backups (or make sure the > Wayback Machine knows about it). Again, please accept our apologies. The decision was made a long time ago to not back up $HOME, and it was mentioned a few times, but certainly not documented nearly as widely as it should've been (i.e. shouted from the rooftops), given that a few people have lost data and been upset about it. The plan for when we get new hardware is to run the old hardware as redundant backups, with regular rsyncs, so we can fail over and have less downtime, as well as have a backup (of sorts) of $HOME. Hopefully this doesn't put you guys out too much, and thanks for your understanding. Cheers, Daniel [1]: http://ajaxxx.livejournal.com/62015.html pgputBgI42OUa.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: 1.6.4 brown-bag DGA fixes
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:41:42AM -0700, Keith Packard wrote: > Excerpts from Daniel Stone's message of Tue Sep 29 11:23:33 -0700 2009: > > You don't want to just no-op DGAInit? > > And have the DiDGA layer call some other 'real' DGAInit function? Well, if the objective is to never have the driver call the real DGA initialisation, but to have DGAInit() present for API/linker reasons, then, er ... Cheers, Daniel pgpvjGhqCTC3d.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: 1.6.4 brown-bag DGA fixes
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:59:24AM -0700, Keith Packard wrote: > The fix I proposed doesn't solve the case where DGA is initialized > twice, once by the driver and once by the DiDGA layer. Here's a > version which has the DiDGA code override the driver DGA > initialization. You don't want to just no-op DGAInit? Cheers, Daniel pgp3St0bQHP6l.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Problem of grabbing the first keystroke after input device keymap switch
Hi, On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 07:20:36PM -0800, Henry Zhao wrote: > In a system with multiple input keyboard devices, keymap switch takes > place when server receives the first keystroke from a new device. Before > posting it updates the keymap of core device, and sends out > SendMappingNotify() (all done in SwitchsCoreKeyboard()). > > However in my testing case, the client is unable to grab this first > keystroke, > although it can correctly grab subsequent strokes from the new device. > With "xmodmap -pk" I am sure the keymap switch takes place as expected. > > After receiving mapping notify, the client does another round of grab based > on the new keymap, and at that point I can tell the keymap is already > correctly updated. But the client is still unable to grab the first > keystroke. > > It does not seem to be a timing issue: I add some delay after > SendMappingNotify() > in SwitchsCoreKeyboard() to postpone posting, but this does not help. > > Any thoughts ? This is pretty much unfixable without actually using Xi2 and grabbing on the slave devices rather than the master. The only way you could completely eliminate the race is to add API to the clients to say that they've all processed the mapping change and you're free to unfreeze grab events, but, er, if you're changing all your clients anyway, just use Xi2 ... Cheers, Daniel pgpVzxjPXZccy.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: getting all kbd events
On Wed, Jul 08, 2009 at 10:15:08AM +, Nokan Emiro wrote: > On Wed, Jul 8, 2009, Timothy S. Nelson wrote: > > On Wed, 8 Jul 2009, Nokan Emiro wrote: > > How can I change the XkbSelectEvents's parameters to be messaged on all > >> keypresses? > > > >I'm not an X programmer, but doesn't xev do this already? And if > > so, couldn't you just look at the xev source? > > Thanks for the tip, but this is not what helps me out. xev uses plain Xlib, > but > the sample code in my mail uses XKBlib. xev calls XSelectInput(), in my > code > I would like to use XkbSelectEvents() for this purpose. Well, you can use XkbSelectEvents() if you want, but it won't give you key events. :) Use Xi2 to select for XI_KeyPress and XI_KeyRelease on modern servers with an XInput version of 2.0 or later, or just plain old XSelectInput() with KeyPressMask and KeyReleaseMask. XKB only provides the mapping for key events you've received; it's not responsible for delivering you the key events in the first place. Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: is it possible to publish Xming on Citrix?
On Wed, Jul 01, 2009 at 11:08:59PM +0530, Venkateswara_Chalamalasetti wrote: > Recently i have started using Xming free software to connect to one Solaris > machine. It works. But i have a question in my mind. Is it possible to > install Xming on WTS and publish Xming on Citrix web page? So that multiple > users can start using it from one single installation. Hi, We don't really have any control over the Citrix website; you might ask them. Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: XkbSetDetectableAutoRepeat broken
On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 03:53:30PM +0200, Pierre Willenbrock wrote: > since some time, XkbSetDetectableAutoRepeat is broken. > XkbSetDetectableAutoRepeat works by filtering in XkbFilterEvent all > events that are equal to the previously stored XkbLastRepeatEvent(in > AccessXKeyboardEvent). This is done by comparing the memory location. In > current xservers, events get translated after they are created in > AccessXKeyboardEvent and before XkbFilterEvent sees them, so this test > does not work. For now, comparing time fixes this, but i don't know if > that is sufficient. Attached patch does just this, and works here. Hi, I've got a fix in my local tree that I'll push ASAP. Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: It's useful to have a working X server if a client holds a grab when it triggers a debugger breakpoint
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 10:14:17AM +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote: > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:13:15PM +0100, Daniel Stone wrote: > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 01:17:15PM +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote: > > > VT switching only works as long as the grab is asynchronous, otherwise > > > events are queued up on the device for replaying and never pass through > > > the > > > XKB paths that trigger this behaviour. > > > > We should probably fix this for XKB2 by keeping a 'last internal state' > > separate to the normal state, which takes into account all thawed > > events; does that sound sensible? Then we can define 'internal actions' > > which take the new state field into account, or just specify that all > > actions are thus processed before the device is thawed. > > The only reason why the event's arent processed in a frozen device is > because the processInputProc is changed to EnqueueEvent which does nothing > but stack the events into the queue. You could hook up the VT switching and > Terminate_Server actions in there (the events need to be discarded or marked > used though so thawing the device doesn't switch again). Right. You still need to run them through the full XKB processing gamut however, so you can catch the state from modifiers, etc, and that requires you to run all the actions too. *shrug* > I don't think there's any need for XKB2 as such, it could be fixed in the > current implementation. I'll leave that as an exercise to the reader though. I didn't think you could do this within the spec, but upon re-reading, it looks like it should be possible. Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: It's useful to have a working X server if a client holds a grab when it triggers a debugger breakpoint
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 01:17:15PM +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote: > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 11:56:58AM +1000, David Campbell wrote: > > By "switching to a VT", did you mean pressing CTRL-ALT- to > > switch to a virtual terminal? > > > > That doesn't work for me, due to the grab. Pressing those keystrokes is > > unresponsive, thus for a standalone system in a location where there are > > no other computers, it still appears that the only option in the > > situation of hitting a breakpoint during a grab, is to force a power > > down and reboot. > > VT switching only works as long as the grab is asynchronous, otherwise > events are queued up on the device for replaying and never pass through the > XKB paths that trigger this behaviour. Hi, We should probably fix this for XKB2 by keeping a 'last internal state' separate to the normal state, which takes into account all thawed events; does that sound sensible? Then we can define 'internal actions' which take the new state field into account, or just specify that all actions are thus processed before the device is thawed. Cheers, Daniel ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: It's useful to have a working X server if a client holds a grab when it triggers a debugger breakpoint
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 03:46:12AM +0200, Maarten Maathuis wrote: > I personally wouldn't mind a kill all grabs button/key/whatever. Even > if you can debug a grab issue, you don't always have the time or the > right machine (debugging symbols and friends) to do it. Yeah, it will come back as an XKB action. Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: How to make xorg prefer "nvidia" over "nv" driver in a xorg.conf less configuration?
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 06:58:44AM +, Francesco Pretto wrote: > I'm sorry, but this not a very useful answer. You are basically saying "the > driver loading priority of Xorg is hardcoded and if you want to change it, > recompile Xserver". I've already read that discussions in the past: I DON'T > want > Xorg to default ship with "nvidia" set at higher priority and I perfectly > agree > with reverting that commit. I just want to learn how to configure my system to > accomplish what I've asked. There are 2 considerations: > > 1) You've pointed me the driver loading priority is hardcoded in Xorg so can't > be changed by normal users. Maybe HAL fdi policies files can be used to > accomodate my task? > 2) If there's no configurable option to solve this, this would de > definitively a > lacking feature: Xorg can't prefer one driver instead of another in a > xorg.conf > less configuration. As I've explained, this would be very useful in my setup > where basically I continue to swap video card depending the fact I'm running > native or virtualized. If you want to configure Xorg, why not use xorg.conf? Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Xorg support to import options for non-Input sections?
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 07:55:05AM -0700, Dan Nicholson wrote: > On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Daniel Stone wrote: > > On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 03:24:27PM -0700, Dan Nicholson wrote: > >> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Alan Coopersmith > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > And for non-Linux systems? HAL is OS-agnostic, udev seems very Linux > >> > specific. > >> > >> Well, there's DeviceKit, but I don't think anyone has any plans for > >> DeviceKit-input or DeviceKit-graphics. I'd personally like to see an > >> abstraction layer rather than putting one into Xorg. > > > > Me too, but DeviceKit won't be it. > > As in, you don't think it will happen for DeviceKit, or you don't want > DeviceKit to be it? Yes. :) Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Xorg support to import options for non-Input sections?
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 03:24:27PM -0700, Dan Nicholson wrote: > On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Alan Coopersmith > wrote: > > Colin Guthrie wrote: > >> 'Twas brillig, and Kevin Stange at 12/05/09 18:23 did gyre and gimble: > >>> So you're saying this HAL method is widely (or narrowly, but by the > >>> right people) disliked? Using Gentoo it seems to be encouraged, and > >>> I've seen indications other distros (like Ubuntu) have picked up the > >>> technique as well. > >> > >> HAL will eventually be phased out in favour of getting more direct > >> information from udev. I'm not sure how that will impact the Xorg side > >> of things but i'd imagine the end solution will be in some way related > >> to udev. (this is just a guess tho) > > > > And for non-Linux systems? HAL is OS-agnostic, udev seems very Linux > > specific. > > Well, there's DeviceKit, but I don't think anyone has any plans for > DeviceKit-input or DeviceKit-graphics. I'd personally like to see an > abstraction layer rather than putting one into Xorg. Me too, but DeviceKit won't be it. Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Detecting the used keyboard driver
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 09:33:29AM +0200, Gregory Smirnov wrote: > 2009/5/4 Alan Coopersmith > > Your program has always been broken then - X keycodes are different > > on different platforms and servers, and as kbd/evdev show, sometimes > > even different drivers on the same server/platform. It has been > > well documented for 20+ years that the only valid meaning of an X keycode > > is to lookup a keysym in the current table and that applications should all > > use keysyms, not keycodes. > > > > > Evdev is suceeder of xkb, why *some* keycodes has just changed without > > > an option to check the system for compatibility? > > > > evdev does not suceed or replace XKB - they're two different levels of > > the stack. evdev replaces xf86-input-kbd on Linux systems - both of > > those drivers report up to the core Xorg server which uses XKB. > > > > > But total dependency on keysyms is wrong as well. That is why Copy/Paste > (Ctrl+C/V) does not work properly in multi-language environments. The fix for Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V is not to hardcode particular keycodes, but to check the keysym in all groups. The X specification explicitly states that keycodes have no actual meaning beyond the keysyms assigned to them in the keymap. Ignore that at your peril. Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: AllowEmptyInput and HAL
Hi, On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:01:25PM +0100, Phil Endecott wrote: > Specifically, when X started I had no keyboard or mouse. After > power-cycling [no other way to escape!] I found a message in the log > saying that "AllowEmptyInput" was enabled and that my keyboard and > mouse configuration was being ignored. Having looked this up in man > xorg.conf I see that this mode is the default. I'll try to be polite: > This does not seem like the most useful behaviour. AllowEmptyInput does not mean that your keyboard and mouse configuration is being ignored; conversely, it means that it's not a fatal error to have no keyboard and mouse configuration whatsoever. So if AEI changes anything, you don't have a keyboard and mouse configured. > Having set AutoAddDevices to false in order to disable the unhelpful > AllowEmptyInput, I now have a functioning mouse. But I have a keyboard > where every alternate keystroke produces the right letter and the > others produce garbage (maybe top-bit-set characters?). Cool. Could you please send xev output? > I also noticed some messages in the log where "config/hal" complained > that "NewInputDeviceRequest failed". Presumably this is because of my > AutoAddDevices. I had noticed that Debian installed "hal"; I had not > previously heard of it. It looks like something that sits on top of udev. Yes, it is. NewInputDeviceRequest failing sounds like the evdev driver isn't installed. BTW, attaching complete logs instead of two-word snippets often leads to significantly more happiness. > So I've now spent most of three days on this. I just want a computer > that works, preferably as well as the old one did, and while I don't > have one I can't do much work [I'm self-employed]. So could someone > please suggest what I should do: > > - Is there some simple set of xorg.conf settings that will make it just > work like it did before, without any AllowEmptyInput and HAL stuff and > with a functional keyboard? The Debian guys can explain that much better than me. > - Or would I be better off trying to learn how this HAL thing works? > > X is something that I only have to understand once every few years when > I have some new hardware. By the next time I need to understand it, > either I have forgotten something vital or it has all changed Well, not upgrading guarantees there won't be any changes. :) Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: How to Grab Key Events
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:20:59AM +0200, VARADHARAJAN RAVINDRANATH wrote: >I am a newbie in Xorg. I have a requirement wherein I need to grab > the key events in my X11 application even though it does not have focus. > This application in turn will do some manipulation in the received key > and will send the updated key press event to other X11 clients using > XSendEvent. This is some thing like a window manager implementation > where all X11 applications will be registered as clients to my > application. Hence, my application will be running as a background > process. So,when Xorg receives a key press, it should NOT send the > keypress event to the focused client (even though it has registered for > that event). It should first send it to my application. > >It would be highly helpful if you could help me this solving this man XGrabKey signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Documentation?
On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 06:14:21AM -0400, Thomas Dickey wrote: > On Thu, 9 Apr 2009, Bill Crawford wrote: >> It makes perfect sense. He's saying that (f(A) ⊢ g(B)) ⊬ (¬f(A) ⊢ ¬g(B)), >> where >> A is "release", f is "latest", B is "API" and g is "stable" ;o) >> >> The point is not that it has to be the "latest" release to be "stable", the >> point is that it needs to be an actual release, because between those, they >> might experiment with things and change them before release, and you don't >> want >> to depend on any temporary change that might be withdrawn rapidly. Over the >> longer term, sure, things get deprecated, but it's to be hoped that over >> quite >> a long period of time. >> >> At least, I *think* that's what he said. > > He might have. His response doesn't contain any useful information. > > In the context of the remark that I was curious about, I'd have > understood "API-stable" to mean that no further changes will be made in > the API which would require recompilation. Regarding the latest-releases > tie-in on the web-page, that's problematic since it's only the portion of > the API which has been unchanging for an extended period of time that > would be (in the normal sense of the word) "stable". > > I suppose that someone with time to spare could compare the successive > releases of cairo and measure the fraction of the API which is actually > stable. (If there's some evidence of this in the source code itself, > we might want to discuss that). If you do, be sure to discuss it on Cairo mailing lists, if anywhere at all; certainly not xorg@ in any case. HTH, HAND. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Documentation?
On Wed, Apr 08, 2009 at 05:52:12PM -0400, Thomas Dickey wrote: > On Wed, Apr 08, 2009 at 05:34:48PM -0400, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > On 04/08/2009 05:24 PM, Thomas Dickey wrote: > > >>>If only the latest release is "API-stable", by definition it's not > > >>>stable. > > > > This cannot be deduced from that line. You need to review your math. > > Behdad's comment doesn't make sense in English. > > (Perhaps someone can help Behdad with that - or else explain to him > what "API-stable" might mean). Get off your native-speaker high horse. I understood what he meant completely. Here are the first two sentences: Please download one of the latest releases in order to get an API-stable version of cairo. You'll need both the cairo and pixman packages. See In-Progress Development (below) for details on getting and building the latest pre-release source code if that's what you're looking for. Now to me, that reads as a choice between API-stable or misc. Anyway, maybe you could manage to decipher the cryptic tomes of http://www.cairographics.org/contact/ and work out the correct mailing list to troll about Cairo? Hint: Not this one. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Documentation?
Hi, On Wed, Apr 08, 2009 at 10:54:06PM +0200, Olivier Galibert wrote: > On Wed, Apr 08, 2009 at 10:36:13PM +0200, Stephane Marchesin wrote: > > I agree with you. If you're too lazy and do not have enough dedication > > to create an account on our bugzilla to file a proper bug report, > > you're probably not going to follow-up when we send patches/fixes your > > way. So I say yes, please stay out of the bugzilla. > > A registration with a confirmation email is a barrier to entry. > Finding the correct bugzilla is the first barrier, the registration > with its random time delay is the second, the bugzilla interface with > its bazillon of knobs is the third. You seem to think adding these > hoops increases the quality of the bug reporting compared to the old > times method of firing an email to a mailing-list. I'm curious > whether you have any serious study proving it one way or another. It is a barrier to entry, but it means that we have something searchable, and we can track the status, etc. Some components are better at dealing with bugs than others, of course, but it means all the bugs don't get lost forever among general traffic. They might still be ignored, but that's not the same as lost. ;) Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Documentation?
On Wed, Apr 08, 2009 at 06:07:07PM +, tv wrote: > It's so wonderful when essential features like saveunders are removed. > Now you'll get hordes of people complaining and thinking your software > is buggy because applications are constantly redrawing under it... when > the assholes in power removed essential features without providing a > subsitute, like a generic CM that isn't a complete joke. (And CMs are > overall a fucking joke and a waste of CPU cycles and memory... unless > you can somehow emulate just saveunders etc. without storing all the > hundred windows in memory... but all this has *piss-poor* documentation > in a typical fashion.) > > There's just no way to keep up with all the shit the FOSScracy throws > at you, unless you're one of the big projects with immense resources, > and indeed part of the FOSScracy. I'm happy for you (and somewhat surprised) that you actually have the time to work out what our spam filters are by brute force, but would you kindly fuck off? The grown-ups are trying to work. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Documentation?
On Wed, Apr 08, 2009 at 12:06:35PM +, Tuomo Valkonen wrote: > On 2009-04-08, Daniel Stone wrote: > >> > xmodmap should work fine these days: if it doesn't, file an actual bug > > ^^ > >> > on http://bugs.freedesktop.org, instead of non-specific whining on a > > > >> > mailing list. > > > > Which is a registration-required suckzilla. No thanks. Projects > that require registration for their bug trackers, clearly and > loudly state that they're not interested in the reports. Thanks for your advice on how to best interact with users of a free software project, but I think we're okay. Bye. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Documentation?
On Wed, Apr 08, 2009 at 09:16:49AM +, Tuomo Valkonen wrote: > On 2009-04-07, Daniel Stone wrote: > > xmodmap should work fine these days: if it doesn't, file an actual bug ^^ > > on http://bugs.freedesktop.org, instead of non-specific whining on a > > mailing list. > > It doesn't. Not combined with X kitten butcher keymaps. > E.g. ISO_Level3_Shit+j can't be assigned in the finnish > keymap. So you need a complete xmodmap based on the good > old Mode_Switch instead. > > -- > Stop Gnomes and other pests! Purchase Windows today! > > ___ > xorg mailing list > xorg@lists.freedesktop.org > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Documentation?
On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 06:39:59PM +, Tuomo Valkonen wrote: > On 2009-04-07, Corbin Simpson wrote: > >> Pollute my system with KDE or Gnome? Rather install Windows. > > > > Sounds like a plan. Enjoy your Cleartype. > > Plan executed and succesfully accomplished. Byebye Linux. > > Windows XP has a simple option to disable blurring -- actually > it isn't even enabled by default for small fonts. In Vista and W7 > it's complicated, but still doable (most easily by choosing a > suitable theme, although there's no longer a simple option on W7). > OS X is the most fascist of them all; there is no way at all to > disable blurring on it, AFAIK. > > -- > In 1995, Linux was almost a bicycle; an alternative way of live to the > Windows petrol beasts that had to be taken to the dealer for service. > By 2008, Linux has bloated into a gas-guzzler, and the cycle paths > have been replaced with polluted motorways. I'm glad to hear it. ISTR the msft.* newsgroups being quite good from quite some time ago: maybe you'd prefer to join them rather than your continual aimless whining on x...@. Either way, you're now moderated. Few regards, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Documentation?
On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 12:01:42PM +, Tuomo Valkonen wrote: > that need root access to modify. That or an ability to read documentation. > (Nobody ever does anything new properly, just adds layers upon > layers of indirection, complexity upon complexity. Latest example > being the kernel-level keycode standardisation idiocy. Thanks > for breaking my .Xmodmap! -- Which I have had to fully store from > a pre-Xkb X, as Xkb is another piece of modern shitware that isn't > suitable for customisation at all.) xmodmap should work fine these days: if it doesn't, file an actual bug on http://bugs.freedesktop.org, instead of non-specific whining on a mailing list. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Documentation?
On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 10:27:37AM +, Tuomo Valkonen wrote: > The only problem with core fonts is the blur-fascist elite > not bothering to fix UTF-8 fontset support, so there you have > some problems. I don't think I ever saw any patches. > But don't mind me, the last person who wants good fonts. I have > already switched to Windows from the sinking ship known as Linux. 'Don't mind me' and sending a constant stream of irrelevant mails about how the world just don't even know what they want tend to be mutually exclusive. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: clarification requested: apparent termination of xrx project due to deletion of lbx from xorg
Hi, On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 12:36:18PM +, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > the first one says that LBX is deprecated. however, has any > replacement for LBX been written _before_ deprecating it? has any > replacement been considered? Yes -- SSH. > the second one says "xproxymngproto is no longer supported" due to > certain libraries having been deleted from xorg (presumably lbx). that > implies that the xrx project, the only way of embedding unix > applications into web browsers, is, by inference, "no longer > supported". Yes. > please can someone clarify that i have this right: that a particularly > interesting and exciting line of possibilities for desktop > development, hosted by the "free desktop organisation", has been > terminated by the xorg developers. Don't let us stop you from working on it. Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Removing shadows underneath windows when using xcompmgr
Hi, On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 04:38:38PM -0400, Joel Feiner wrote: > I haven't looked at it in a while. I would really like to do this now > because the shadows under the windows seem to cause a major performance > regression with translucent windows. My problem was that I couldn't figure > out how to set up the clipping regions to not include the area under the > window. My X programming skills are, well, lacking, to say the least. xcompmgr is ... not even remotely performant. I'd suggest looking at another compositing manager. Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: Problems configuring AsusTek VW161D with 1366x768x16M
Hi, On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 07:25:45PM +0100, Michelle Konzack wrote: > > * Do not Cc: me, because I READ THIS LIST, if I write here * > *Keine Cc: am mich, ich LESE DIESE LISTE wenn ich hier schreibe* > http://www.google.com/search?q=%22mail-followup-to%22 (Assuming I remember my percent-encoding correctly.) > on my workstation, where one of my "LiteOn AAC15" is gone. Now I have > replaced it with a nifty "AsusTek VW161D" which support a resolution of > 1366x768 pixel. Unfortunately not at me: It switch always to 1280x800. > > [...] > > Section "Monitor" > Identifier "Asus VW161D" > Option "DPMS" > HorizSync 28-50 > VertRefresh 43-75 > # 1368x768 @ 75.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 60.15 kHz; pclk: 110.19 MHz > # Modeline "1368x768_75.00" 110.19 1368 1456 1600 1832 768 769 772 > 802 -HSync +Vsync > # 1368x768 74.90 Hz (CVT) hsync: 60.30 kHz; pclk: 109.50 MHz > Modeline "1368x768_75.00" 109.50 1368 1448 1592 1816 768 771 781 805 > -hsync +vsync > EndSection > Section "Screen" Your HorizSync range is 28-50kHz, and you're attempting to use 60kHz modes. Don't do that. Current X releases can run without xorg.conf, and should work fine. Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
[cwo...@cworth.org: 2009 Election results]
FYI, by request, etc.
Cheers,
Daniel
- Forwarded message from Carl Worth -
Subject: 2009 Election results
From: Carl Worth
To: members
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 22:29:31 -0800
Message-Id: <1236407371.5824.0.ca...@samich>
List-Id:
Dear X.Org Foundation Membership,
The X.Org Foundation Board election process is now complete. We on the
Election Committee testify that it was conducted according to the
organization's bylaws and to the best of our ability.
A total of 42 of the 140 active members of the X.Org Foundation voted,
which is in excess of the 25% required by the bylaws. Voters ranked the
nominees. The rankings were evaluated according to the Borda count
method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borda_count), which for each ballot
in this four-person election assigned the highest-ranked candidate four
points, the next-highest three points, and so forth.
The nominees elected by the Membership to serve a two-year term on the
X.Org Foundation Board are as follows:
Alan Coopersmith (112 points)
Bart Massey (89 points)
Daniel Stone (77 points)
Donnie Berkholz (71 points)
Not elected were:
Jim Gettys (35 points)
David Nicol (19 points)
For calendar year 2009, the X.Org Foundation Board will consist of the
newly-elected board members, plus continuing board members Eric Anholt,
Matthieu Herb, Adam Jackson, and Carl Worth.
Those of us on the Election Committee of the X.Org Foundation Board of
Directors extend our sincere thanks to the current board members who are
now stepping down, (Egbert Eich and Keith Packard). We are extremely
grateful for their ongoing devotion to the development and promotion of
the X Window System. We also thank all of those who were willing
candidates for a board position in this election, and all the members
that participated in the election. We hope that each of you will
continue to help out with X.Org, and will consider seeking service on
the board in the future.
Carl Worth
on behalf of the Election Committee,
X.Org Foundation Board of Directors
___
members mailing list
memb...@foundation.x.org
http://foundation.x.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/members
- End forwarded message -
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Re: how glx extension uses the software render
On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 06:52:44PM +0530, Mustafizur Rahaman wrote: > > Hi, Please only send plain-text email to the list. Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: correct location of evdev?
Hi, On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 10:48:08AM +0100, Marc Weber wrote: > This last one isn't. It looks like some other output has been passed to args? > I don't understand yet what is happening here (between args and "exit > code" there should only be the expansion of "$@".. But there is also an > error message?) > > pwd: / args: > /nix/store/vxkwhi4yvlrkn0b2hphqaa5avmpgmz5r-xkbcomp-git/bin/xkbcomp.orig -w 1 > -R/nix/store/i1kji9v61b00iwqpn5w9mhvvszx07v4x-xkeyboard-config-git/etc/X11/xkb > -xkm - -em1 The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: -emp > -eml > Errors from xkbcomp are not fatal to the X server > /nix/store/xgxjshwf8msly1zbzhfgfrq1f1ibwl1d-xorg-server-git/share/X11/xkb/compiled/server-0.xkm > exit code 1 stdout: , stderr The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) > reports: > > Error:Can't find file "evdev" for keycodes include > > Exiting > > Abandoning keycodes file "default" > Errors from xkbcomp are not fatal to the X server No, that's fine too. The arguments are to tell it how to format its output (awesome). The error is telling you what you need to know: that it can't find keycodes/evdev in your XKB path. Either you haven't got xkeyboard-config installed to that path, or it's too old. Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: [RFC] XI2 draft protocol specification (v 0.1)
Hi, I was going to reply to the original, but Peter's reply says pretty much everything I wanted to say. On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 10:29:42AM +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote: > On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 12:28:23PM -0500, Jim Gettys wrote: > > Here are some substantive issues: > > > > 1) I wonder how we can extend XI2 to deal with multiuser displays (with > > some sort of security between users), when we have enough experience to > > work out the details. Do we distinguish via the deviceid? If so, is 16 > > bits of deviceid enough? (allowing for 256 users of 256 devices, as a > > possibility...). Or is a separate user field for each device better? A > > device might someday be as simple minded as a playing piece on a > > chessboard (with sensors, for example). > > I don't think we should have the notion of a "user" in the protocol. X is (or > should be) an abstraction layer for input devices, the notion of a user (in > regards to input devices) is too context-sensitive to build into the protocol. > > Get the DE to label the devices through properties, and then apps to listen to > these properties correctly, similar to EMWH. The big advantage of this is that > a property-based protocol is easier to test and easier to modify than the wire > protocol. Or just do it through XACE. I mean, if you're after security, then surely you'd rather it was properly enforced through our existing security framework rather than hoping people respect the convention. > > ButtonClasses and DeviceClasses I'm worried. Here's why: Interning > > atoms require a round trip, and won't we end up with way too many types? > > And do we really want to be a registry for such names? Looking at the > > USB specs, there are *tons* of devices and various types. We thought > > we'd avoid this in the early X11 design by the "predefined atoms" stuff, > > but it didn't work out well in the end; it would have been better to > > just use strings and send them everywhere in the protocol. The registry > > headache is not to be undertaken lightly. Similarly, we're mostly out > > of the keysym business by punting most of it to the Unicode consortium. > > In regards to the atom worries: Not to mention that we can also make XInternAtoms do multiple atoms at a time with Fixes. > >o we could define a mapping between USB descriptors and XML events, > > and send all this as XML. This isn't entirely crazy. In fact, most > > events end up as XML inside browsers anyway. It is very extensible. > > There are binary versions of XML if we wanted to go this way; though > > care on design to avoid verbosity (and transmitting a data descriptor > > first (or on device change) and just the data is very possible). > > XML is merely a container format. It doesn't solve our actual problem - what > information to send to the client. Preach it, brother! Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: XTrap removal
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:22:43AM -0800, milnser43...@yahoo.com wrote: > What is the rationale behind removing the xtrap extension. [...] Some people (including some of my friends) have a problem where there's effectively no filter between their brain and their mouth, and they just say whatever occurs to them at that instant. That's bad enough. You, however, appear to have no filter between your brain and x...@? XTrap is covered by Record and Test; between them, they offer a superset of XTrap's functionality. We did think about this when it got removed. Thanks for your concern, but please, think before posting (or it'll be enforced). signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
