Re: [EDIT] Why do I need mouse acceleration to move windows and click buttons?
On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 18:58 +0100, Dirk wrote: People who believe they need an accelerated pointer to click buttons or move windows are not bright enough to realize the absence of acceleration anyways. Sorry for not being bright enough for you, but I do enjoy acceleration. Xav ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: [EDIT] Why do I need mouse acceleration to move windows and click buttons?
Well, then you haven't had it re-enabling itself over and over again to interfere with your games, yet. Xavier Bestel wrote: On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 18:58 +0100, Dirk wrote: People who believe they need an accelerated pointer to click buttons or move windows are not bright enough to realize the absence of acceleration anyways. Sorry for not being bright enough for you, but I do enjoy acceleration. Xav ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: [EDIT] Why do I need mouse acceleration to move windows and click buttons?
On Thursday 26 February 2009 18:13:01 Dirk wrote: Well, then you haven't had it re-enabling itself over and over again to interfere with your games, yet. Xavier Bestel wrote: On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 18:58 +0100, Dirk wrote: People who believe they need an accelerated pointer to click buttons or move windows are not bright enough to realize the absence of acceleration anyways. Sorry for not being bright enough for you, but I do enjoy acceleration. Xav a) you probably need to disable the acceleration in whatever preferences utility your window manager / desktop environment provide b) guys, there *are* cases where a hi-res mouse pretty much obviates pointer acceleration and mocking someone for wanting to turn it off is ... puerile. In fact, what's probably needed is the ability to *decelerate* the thing when you want to position something accurately ... :) ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: [EDIT] Why do I need mouse acceleration to move windows and click buttons?
Dirk wrote: The bottom sticker of my mouse says 2000 DPI... so I want to move the pointer 2000 pixels when i move the mouse an inch... NO MATTER HOW FAST I MOVE THE MOUSE. These are device pixels, not screen pixels. I really hope you didn't need me to explain this. Well... the thing I tried to explain is that I (and other people) don't want to /have/ to give a f***... 1) I plug in 2000 dpi mouse 2) I move mouse 1 inch horizontally and/or vertically 3) pointer moves 2000 pixels horizontally and/or vertically NO MATTER HOW FAST I MOVE THE MOUSE that really is all that one cares about when he wants to use Linux for gaming. PRECISION! Not useless Desktop features that interfere and make one seriously freak out during an important match. You could completely remove mouse acceleration from the codebase and increase the quality of Linux as a gaming system. People who believe they need an accelerated pointer to click buttons or move windows are not bright enough to realize the absence of acceleration anyways. I know Windows has mouse acceleration too... but just because they call it a feature it shouldn't be part of a Linux Desktop and enable itself, randomly, over and over again. Right now I run a script that calls xset 30 times a minute with sleeps as a cronjob to make sure it stays disabled. Before, I even sent my mouse back to the manufacturer because I thought it was broken before I realized it was a problem with Linux so I guess I /am/ a little annoyed. Not as much as i (e.g.) was before i uninstalled HAL to get control over my Linux back. But still... I'll check out http://www.x.org/wiki/Development/Documentation/PointerAcceleration Thanks. You wrote up this entire flame before reading the manual? http://xkcd.com/293 comes to mind. Additionally, acceleration's presence can always be made negligible by changing the rate of acceleration. (Ah, the joys of calculus.) It's definitely an enhancement, not a feature. ~ C. ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: [EDIT] Why do I need mouse acceleration to move windows and click buttons?
Corbin Simpson wrote: Dirk wrote: The bottom sticker of my mouse says 2000 DPI... so I want to move the pointer 2000 pixels when i move the mouse an inch... NO MATTER HOW FAST I MOVE THE MOUSE. These are device pixels, not screen pixels. I really hope you didn't need me to explain this. Well... the thing I tried to explain is that I (and other people) don't want to /have/ to give a f***... 1) I plug in 2000 dpi mouse 2) I move mouse 1 inch horizontally and/or vertically 3) pointer moves 2000 pixels horizontally and/or vertically NO MATTER HOW FAST I MOVE THE MOUSE that really is all that one cares about when he wants to use Linux for gaming. PRECISION! Not useless Desktop features that interfere and make one seriously freak out during an important match. You could completely remove mouse acceleration from the codebase and increase the quality of Linux as a gaming system. People who believe they need an accelerated pointer to click buttons or move windows are not bright enough to realize the absence of acceleration anyways. I know Windows has mouse acceleration too... but just because they call it a feature it shouldn't be part of a Linux Desktop and enable itself, randomly, over and over again. Right now I run a script that calls xset 30 times a minute with sleeps as a cronjob to make sure it stays disabled. Before, I even sent my mouse back to the manufacturer because I thought it was broken before I realized it was a problem with Linux so I guess I /am/ a little annoyed. Not as much as i (e.g.) was before i uninstalled HAL to get control over my Linux back. But still... I'll check out http://www.x.org/wiki/Development/Documentation/PointerAcceleration Thanks. You wrote up this entire flame before reading the manual? http://xkcd.com/293 comes to mind. Additionally, acceleration's presence can always be made negligible by changing the rate of acceleration. (Ah, the joys of calculus.) It's definitely an enhancement, not a feature. ~ C. ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg Well I had read the xset manual but it kept re-enabling itself. I didn't know I had to read /many/ manuals to permanently disable mouse acceleration in Linux... but then again I thought the nineties were over... ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: [EDIT] Why do I need mouse acceleration to move windows and click buttons?
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 06:58:58PM +0100, Dirk wrote: Right now I run a script that calls xset 30 times a minute with sleeps as a cronjob to make sure it stays disabled. Why not jsut disable mouse accel in desktop environment preferences to not have gnome-settings-daemon¹ reseting it? ¹ or equivalent daemon of other DEs -- Tomasz TorczTo co nierealne -- tutaj jest normalne. xmpp: zdzich...@chrome.pl Ziomale na życie mają tu patenty specjalne. pgpvejuwP3oJX.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: [EDIT] Why do I need mouse acceleration to move windows and click buttons?
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Dirk noi...@gmx.net wrote: Well... the thing I tried to explain is that I (and other people) don't want to /have/ to give a f***... 1) I plug in 2000 dpi mouse 2) I move mouse 1 inch horizontally and/or vertically 3) pointer moves 2000 pixels horizontally and/or vertically NO MATTER HOW FAST I MOVE THE MOUSE that really is all that one cares about when he wants to use Linux for gaming. PRECISION! Not useless Desktop features that interfere and make one seriously freak out during an important match. I think you really hit the nail on the head here: when he wants to use Linux for gaming. I think it's great that you use Linux as a gamer but you must realize that you are a minuscule minority. Just because you might need your mouse to move exactly 2.3442 pixels per millimeter doesn't mean that the rest of the world does as well. You could completely remove mouse acceleration from the codebase and increase the quality of Linux as a gaming system. We could and it might even improve the quality of Linux as a gaming system but the overall experience for most users would suffer tremendously. Pointer acceleration is a crucial part of the input system, especially as screen sizes increase. People who believe they need an accelerated pointer to click buttons or move windows are not bright enough to realize the absence of acceleration anyways. That's just not true. Try using a laptop touchpad or pointing stick with infinite acceleration. You'll quickly give up in frustration. I even find that a standard mouse is unusable without acceleration. It's simply not possible to get both fine control and move across the screen at a reasonable rate. I know Windows has mouse acceleration too... but just because they call it a feature it shouldn't be part of a Linux Desktop and enable itself, randomly, over and over again. Exactly, the problem you are experiencing is not that we implement pointer acceleration; it's that it is repeatedly enabled against your wishes. Perhaps you should investigate why. Right now I run a script that calls xset 30 times a minute with sleeps as a cronjob to make sure it stays disabled. Before, I even sent my mouse back to the manufacturer because I thought it was broken before I realized it was a problem with Linux so I guess I /am/ a little annoyed. Not as much as i (e.g.) was before i uninstalled HAL to get control over my Linux back. But still... If you have a problem with HAL, report a bug. Uninstalling isn't the answer. It is an increasingly common dependency on the desktop and for good reason. I'll check out http://www.x.org/wiki/Development/Documentation/PointerAcceleration Thanks. ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: [EDIT] Why do I need mouse acceleration to move windows and click buttons?
Ben Gamari wrote: On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Dirk noi...@gmx.net wrote: Well... the thing I tried to explain is that I (and other people) don't want to /have/ to give a f***... 1) I plug in 2000 dpi mouse 2) I move mouse 1 inch horizontally and/or vertically 3) pointer moves 2000 pixels horizontally and/or vertically NO MATTER HOW FAST I MOVE THE MOUSE that really is all that one cares about when he wants to use Linux for gaming. PRECISION! Not useless Desktop features that interfere and make one seriously freak out during an important match. I think you really hit the nail on the head here: when he wants to use Linux for gaming. I think it's great that you use Linux as a gamer but you must realize that you are a minuscule minority. Just because you might need your mouse to move exactly 2.3442 pixels per millimeter doesn't mean that the rest of the world does as well. And that's it? You could completely remove mouse acceleration from the codebase and increase the quality of Linux as a gaming system. We could and it might even improve the quality of Linux as a gaming system but the overall experience for most users would suffer tremendously. Pointer acceleration is a crucial part of the input system, especially as screen sizes increase. People who believe they need an accelerated pointer to click buttons or move windows are not bright enough to realize the absence of acceleration anyways. That's just not true. Try using a laptop touchpad or pointing stick with infinite acceleration. You'll quickly give up in frustration. I even find that a standard mouse is unusable without acceleration. It's simply not possible to get both fine control and move across the screen at a reasonable rate. I know Windows has mouse acceleration too... but just because they call it a feature it shouldn't be part of a Linux Desktop and enable itself, randomly, over and over again. Exactly, the problem you are experiencing is not that we implement pointer acceleration; it's that it is repeatedly enabled against your wishes. Perhaps you should investigate why. I did... I can't find the reason why it keeps getting enabled again. End of story. Right now I run a script that calls xset 30 times a minute with sleeps as a cronjob to make sure it stays disabled. Before, I even sent my mouse back to the manufacturer because I thought it was broken before I realized it was a problem with Linux so I guess I /am/ a little annoyed. Not as much as i (e.g.) was before i uninstalled HAL to get control over my Linux back. But still... If you have a problem with HAL, report a bug. Uninstalling isn't the answer. It is an increasingly common dependency on the desktop and for good reason. I don't think I'll make them stop developing HAL. Because that would be the only thinkable solution for my problem with it and it's tendencies to steal the sovereignty over the operating system from the user. Sovereignty which made me once switch to Linux. HAL did cost me quite a few CD-R before I realized to make it stop trying to mounting the media while I was burning by de-installing it. That should be all I have to say about it. As long as I can do what I want without HAL interfering, Linux remains my favourite option. ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: [EDIT] Why do I need mouse acceleration to move windows and click buttons?
Dirk wrote: I was referring to reading /many/ manuals as a relic of the nineties. Oh, I got that, I just used it as a starter :) I'll try this on another machine as soon as it is in debian/unstable (if not already)... It would be great it this works and can't be overriden by anything. If you set the none scheme, no acceleration will happen as long as the device stays plugged. (you can't switch schemes live, only profiles). For gaming, you might want to check out adaptive deceleration. Though then you'd first need to kill whatever tweaks your acceleration. I know of no such bug in xorg. ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: [EDIT] Why do I need mouse acceleration to move windows and?click buttons?
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 05:56:33PM +, Bill Crawford wrote: On Thursday 26 February 2009 18:13:01 Dirk wrote: Well, then you haven't had it re-enabling itself over and over again to interfere with your games, yet. Xavier Bestel wrote: On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 18:58 +0100, Dirk wrote: People who believe they need an accelerated pointer to click buttons or move windows are not bright enough to realize the absence of acceleration anyways. Sorry for not being bright enough for you, but I do enjoy acceleration. Xav a) you probably need to disable the acceleration in whatever preferences utility your window manager / desktop environment provide b) guys, there *are* cases where a hi-res mouse pretty much obviates pointer acceleration and mocking someone for wanting to turn it off is ... puerile. In fact, what's probably needed is the ability to *decelerate* the thing when you want to position something accurately ... :) see AdaptiveDeceleration (or ConstantDeceleration), added in server 1.6 http://wiki.x.org/wiki/Development/Documentation/PointerAcceleration Cheers, Peter ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
