Re: events in evdev.c
Your argument would make sense if X didn't go to painful lengths to maintain an abstract input driver API/ABI that allowed for arbitrary drivers. confused. I was saying that the evdev wasn't as good an example of how to write a driver than the joystick was. The joystick driver itself maintains an abstract input layer which IMO belongs into the server, not the driver. What's left then is nothing more than the evdev driver. I really don't see where the joystick driver is superior in driver design other that it provides backends for 3 interfaces. I was, in my mind, really concentrating on the keysym business, which is not compilable outside of Linux. keysyms are totally X11 and application side and very much cross-platform. Where did you see the opposite? Maybe, the fact that we're talking about Linux events versus Xorg events versus the non-existence of FreeBSD user-mode events is what confused things? I think you confuse something here. We never talked about Xorg events here. And something similar to the Linux events (as in evdev) do exist in FreeBSD, it's just no 1:1 mapping. And even if they didn't; what's your point? That the evdev driver should not exist then, just because other platforms don't provide such an interface? - Sascha signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: events in evdev.c
Chuck Robey wrote: I'm really rather curious where you got the idea that FreeBSD had something that looked even vaguely like the Linux events. I know that if you look at the FreeBSD man page EVENTHANDLER(9) you can see an event interface, but that one is intra-kernel, not exported to applications like the Linux one is. Using the event interface, like evdev does, takes away the portability. If I could find a FreeBSD applications-event interface ala Linux, I would be overjoyed, and immediately use it. NetBSD and OpenBSD share (at least try to) the wscons console driver which has a notion of event which is not too far away from evdev. It should be possible to write a more OS neutral event based input driver which could cover all of Solaris, Linux and wscons events. I must admit that I don't know too much about the current state of the FreeBSD console driver though. -- Matthieu Herrb ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: events in evdev.c
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 04:59:33PM +0200, Matthieu Herrb wrote:
Chuck Robey wrote:
I'm really rather curious where you got the idea that FreeBSD had something
that
looked even vaguely like the Linux events. I know that if you look at the
FreeBSD man page EVENTHANDLER(9) you can see an event interface, but that
one is
intra-kernel, not exported to applications like the Linux one is. Using the
event interface, like evdev does, takes away the portability.
If I could find a FreeBSD applications-event interface ala Linux, I would be
overjoyed, and immediately use it.
NetBSD and OpenBSD share (at least try to) the wscons console driver
which has a notion of event which is not too far away from evdev. It
should be possible to write a more OS neutral event based input driver
which could cover all of Solaris, Linux and wscons events.
Eh, might as well write xf86-input-wscons. I don't see what benefit
you'd gain by sharing a codebase, aside from added complexity and #ifdef
hell, a la xf86-input-{keyboard,mouse}.
Cheers,
Daniel
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Re: events in evdev.c
Daniel Stone wrote:
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 04:59:33PM +0200, Matthieu Herrb wrote:
Chuck Robey wrote:
I'm really rather curious where you got the idea that FreeBSD had something
that
looked even vaguely like the Linux events. I know that if you look at the
FreeBSD man page EVENTHANDLER(9) you can see an event interface, but that
one is
intra-kernel, not exported to applications like the Linux one is. Using the
event interface, like evdev does, takes away the portability.
If I could find a FreeBSD applications-event interface ala Linux, I would be
overjoyed, and immediately use it.
NetBSD and OpenBSD share (at least try to) the wscons console driver
which has a notion of event which is not too far away from evdev. It
should be possible to write a more OS neutral event based input driver
which could cover all of Solaris, Linux and wscons events.
Eh, might as well write xf86-input-wscons. I don't see what benefit
you'd gain by sharing a codebase, aside from added complexity and #ifdef
hell, a la xf86-input-{keyboard,mouse}.
I myself really like the approach that xf86-input-joystick takes, it allows the
approach that evdev takes for Linux, but it doesn't try to suppose that the
event interface that only works for Linux can work for other OSes. You know how
evdev is usually put forward as the best example of driver writing? I think
that the joystick is a way better (more portable) example. Other OSes *do* have
events, but they're intra-kernel only, not exported to apps. And, FreeBSD
doesn't have wscons (although I like that idea, myself).
Cheers,
Daniel
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Re: events in evdev.c
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 11:48:08AM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote:
Daniel Stone wrote:
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 04:59:33PM +0200, Matthieu Herrb wrote:
Chuck Robey wrote:
I'm really rather curious where you got the idea that FreeBSD had
something that
looked even vaguely like the Linux events. I know that if you look at the
FreeBSD man page EVENTHANDLER(9) you can see an event interface, but that
one is
intra-kernel, not exported to applications like the Linux one is. Using
the
event interface, like evdev does, takes away the portability.
If I could find a FreeBSD applications-event interface ala Linux, I would
be
overjoyed, and immediately use it.
NetBSD and OpenBSD share (at least try to) the wscons console driver
which has a notion of event which is not too far away from evdev. It
should be possible to write a more OS neutral event based input driver
which could cover all of Solaris, Linux and wscons events.
Eh, might as well write xf86-input-wscons. I don't see what benefit
you'd gain by sharing a codebase, aside from added complexity and #ifdef
hell, a la xf86-input-{keyboard,mouse}.
I myself really like the approach that xf86-input-joystick takes, it allows
the
approach that evdev takes for Linux, but it doesn't try to suppose that the
event interface that only works for Linux can work for other OSes. You know
how
evdev is usually put forward as the best example of driver writing? I think
that the joystick is a way better (more portable) example. Other OSes *do*
have
events, but they're intra-kernel only, not exported to apps. And, FreeBSD
doesn't have wscons (although I like that idea, myself).
Your argument would make sense if X didn't go to painful lengths to
maintain an abstract input driver API/ABI that allowed for arbitrary
drivers.
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Re: events in evdev.c
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Daniel Stone wrote:
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 11:48:08AM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote:
Daniel Stone wrote:
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 04:59:33PM +0200, Matthieu Herrb wrote:
Chuck Robey wrote:
I'm really rather curious where you got the idea that FreeBSD had
something that
looked even vaguely like the Linux events. I know that if you look at the
FreeBSD man page EVENTHANDLER(9) you can see an event interface, but that
one is
intra-kernel, not exported to applications like the Linux one is. Using
the
event interface, like evdev does, takes away the portability.
If I could find a FreeBSD applications-event interface ala Linux, I would
be
overjoyed, and immediately use it.
NetBSD and OpenBSD share (at least try to) the wscons console driver
which has a notion of event which is not too far away from evdev. It
should be possible to write a more OS neutral event based input driver
which could cover all of Solaris, Linux and wscons events.
Eh, might as well write xf86-input-wscons. I don't see what benefit
you'd gain by sharing a codebase, aside from added complexity and #ifdef
hell, a la xf86-input-{keyboard,mouse}.
I myself really like the approach that xf86-input-joystick takes, it allows
the
approach that evdev takes for Linux, but it doesn't try to suppose that the
event interface that only works for Linux can work for other OSes. You know
how
evdev is usually put forward as the best example of driver writing? I think
that the joystick is a way better (more portable) example. Other OSes *do*
have
events, but they're intra-kernel only, not exported to apps. And, FreeBSD
doesn't have wscons (although I like that idea, myself).
Your argument would make sense if X didn't go to painful lengths to
maintain an abstract input driver API/ABI that allowed for arbitrary
drivers.
confused. I was saying that the evdev wasn't as good an example of how to write
a driver than the joystick was. I was, in my mind, really concentrating on the
keysym business, which is not compilable outside of Linux. Yes, Xorg does go to
painful lengths to maintain compatibility, but where did I comment about Xorg in
general? I didn't ever mean to say that, I meant to say (and I still believe)
that the joystick is more general in it's approach.
Where did you see the opposite? Maybe, the fact that we're talking about Linux
events versus Xorg events versus the non-existence of FreeBSD user-mode events
is what confused things?
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Re: events in evdev.c
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 11:48:08AM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: I myself really like the approach that xf86-input-joystick takes, it allows the approach that evdev takes for Linux, but it doesn't try to suppose that the event interface that only works for Linux can work for other OSes. You know how evdev is usually put forward as the best example of driver writing? I think that the joystick is a way better (more portable) example. Other OSes *do* have events, but they're intra-kernel only, not exported to apps. And, FreeBSD doesn't have wscons (although I like that idea, myself). evdev is put forward as standard example because - unlike most other drivers - most of its code deals with being an X driver, not a hardware driver. There's little protocol crazyness, only few ifdefs, and the code is relatively straightforward. I'm sorry if you don't see how that is a good way of _learning_ how to write an input driver. Cheers, Peter ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: events in evdev.c
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Adam Jackson wrote: On Thu, 2008-09-18 at 09:24 -0700, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Chuck Robey wrote: Sorry, I can't parse what you wrote. You don't know where I heard that Xorg is Linux-only? Is that what you said? My understanding *had been* that Xorg was trying to be compatible with as many Unixes as possible, and specifically avoid being Linux only, which is why seeing the depth of Linuxcode that is in your flagship input driver, evdev, surprised me so. I uderstood, from Peter's mail, that I'm wrong there, and the use of Linux-only ocde in that flagship driver was deliberate. Simply really surprised me, that's all. Xorg is not Linux-only, but evdev is. On Solaris BSD, Xorg uses the xf86-input-keyboard xf86-input-mouse drivers instead. Both Solaris and BSD have very similar event APIs, afaik, and could easily have drivers for same. But they don't. Patches gratefully etc. - ajax I'm really rather curious where you got the idea that FreeBSD had something that looked even vaguely like the Linux events. I know that if you look at the FreeBSD man page EVENTHANDLER(9) you can see an event interface, but that one is intra-kernel, not exported to applications like the Linux one is. Using the event interface, like evdev does, takes away the portability. If I could find a FreeBSD applications-event interface ala Linux, I would be overjoyed, and immediately use it. The xf86_input_joystick interface is a way better example for how to write a driver than the evdev is (unless you're using Linux), because it compatibly brings in 3 different interfaces types, /including/ evdev. If it were me, that's the one I'd give newbies, not evdev. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkjUBKgACgkQz62J6PPcoOkIzQCglxtdK6clIGMc8Ui1hXwhm1IR NocAn01KFXPda+CN23fx6DZXDf3YfbHX =jfyu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: events in evdev.c
Both Solaris and BSD have very similar event APIs, afaik, and could easily have drivers for same. But they don't. Patches gratefully etc. - ajax I'm really rather curious where you got the idea that FreeBSD had something that looked even vaguely like the Linux events. I know that if you look at the FreeBSD man page EVENTHANDLER(9) you can see an event interface, but that one is intra-kernel, not exported to applications like the Linux one is. Using the event interface, like evdev does, takes away the portability. The xf86_input_joystick interface is a way better example for how to write a driver than the evdev is (unless you're using Linux), because it compatibly brings in 3 different interfaces types, /including/ evdev. If it were me, that's the one I'd give newbies, not evdev. BSD has the usbhid interface, which uses events as well. It's implemented in xf86-input-joystick's backend_bsd.c file and it's pretty generic (here of course trimmed for joystick use). Of course the interface is BSD-only (don't know about Solaris) but if the interfaces are somewhat compatible one could of course thing about wrapping it in the server, like the joystick driver does for itself. - Sascha signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: events in evdev.c
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 08:38:09PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: I don't know if this is important or not, and I won't harp on this, but I've heard before that an attempt is made both to keep evdev.c very current, AND to have it not have anything in it that is Linux-only. I don't know where you heard the Linux-only bit, but it's completely wrong. evdev is a Linux-only API. Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: events in evdev.c
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 12:10:13 -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: Sorry, I can't parse what you wrote. EVDEV IS LINUX ONLY. Is that clearer now? Cheers, Julien ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: events in evdev.c
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 08:38:09PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: I don't know if this is important or not, and I won't harp on this, but I've heard before that an attempt is made both to keep evdev.c very current, AND to have it not have anything in it that is Linux-only. AFAIK, only the linux kernel has the evdev interface that the X.org evdev driver uses, so the linux-depency is not accidental. Cheers, Peter ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
