Re: Lack of middle button emulation makes HP life hard
On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 11:35:00AM +0100, Mark Kettenis wrote: > > So, HP laptops come with a pointy-stick in the middle of the keyboard > > and only two buttons. Not having middle-button emulation in this > > environment is pretty harsh. > > > > I know it's not optimal to enable this by default, but I'm wondering > > what can be done to not break these people's machines? > > I'd consider the loss of out-of-the-box middle-button emulation a > serious regression. I've never noticed the latency it imposes on > single button clicks, so in my opinion Peter made the wrong tradeoff > there. To be honest - and this is pretty similar to the Ctrl-Alt-Backspace thing - I'm willing to bet that people who rely on left click to select PRIMARY and middle click to paste it, are capable of navigating to a GUI control panel and selecting one checkbox. (Before someone says 'but not everyone uses GNOME, you fascist': people who use xmonad or OpenBox or whatever are _more than_ capable of setting this themselves.) Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Lack of middle button emulation makes HP life hard
On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 11:35:00 +0100 (CET), Mark Kettenis wrote: > I'd consider the loss of out-of-the-box middle-button emulation a > serious regression. I've never noticed the latency it imposes on > single button clicks, so in my opinion Peter made the wrong tradeoff > there. My theory is that I'm too old to notice; never having played video games I just don't have the reaction time. "Get off my lawn!" -- keith.pack...@intel.com pgpW06Gy0s9oE.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Lack of middle button emulation makes HP life hard
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Keith Packard wrote: > >> looks like the name advertised by the trackstick that sparked this thread is >> "PS/2 Generic Mouse". I'm rather hesitant on shipping any quirks matching on >> this name with the driver, short of one that jumps out of the laptop and >> hits the necessary engineers with a cluebat. > > Maybe allow matching on other DMI-esque info? The laptop in question > doesn't have another PS/2 port... The (InputClass) mechanism used for DMI matching last time it came up was to create a tag in udev and do a MatchTag in InputClass. That's kind of annoying because it needs another non-xserver interaction, but would work. -- Dan ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Lack of middle button emulation makes HP life hard
> From: "Keith Packard" > Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2010 09:25:19 -0800 > > So, HP laptops come with a pointy-stick in the middle of the keyboard > and only two buttons. Not having middle-button emulation in this > environment is pretty harsh. > > I know it's not optimal to enable this by default, but I'm wondering > what can be done to not break these people's machines? I'd consider the loss of out-of-the-box middle-button emulation a serious regression. I've never noticed the latency it imposes on single button clicks, so in my opinion Peter made the wrong tradeoff there. ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Lack of middle button emulation makes HP life hard
> looks like the name advertised by the trackstick that sparked this thread is > "PS/2 Generic Mouse". I'm rather hesitant on shipping any quirks matching on > this name with the driver, short of one that jumps out of the laptop and > hits the necessary engineers with a cluebat. Maybe allow matching on other DMI-esque info? The laptop in question doesn't have another PS/2 port... -- keith.pack...@intel.com pgp5fnMs2mdSE.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Lack of middle button emulation makes HP life hard
On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 10:33:25PM -0800, Dan Nicholson wrote: > On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Peter Hutterer > wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 04:30:01PM -0800, Dan Nicholson wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Keith Packard wrote: > >> > > >> > So, HP laptops come with a pointy-stick in the middle of the keyboard > >> > and only two buttons. Not having middle-button emulation in this > >> > environment is pretty harsh. > >> > > >> > I know it's not optimal to enable this by default, but I'm wondering > >> > what can be done to not break these people's machines? > >> > >> Ship some .conf files in evdev? > >> > >> Section "InputClass" > >> Identifier "NeedsMiddleButtonEmulation" > >> MatchIsPointer "yes" > >> MatchProduct "Crappy HP Laptop|Ancient Mouse" > >> Option "Emulate3Buttons" "yes" > >> EndSection > >> > >> You could do the same for wheel emulation and make my thinkpad work > >> usefully out of the box. :) > > > > fwiw, I'm trying to get generic config script support into gnome, so we > > don't have to ship a million xorg.conf.d snippets for various > > configurations. > > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=635486 > > That looks like a useful addition, but it still requires someone to > code up the custom configurations and deploy them. looks like the name advertised by the trackstick that sparked this thread is "PS/2 Generic Mouse". I'm rather hesitant on shipping any quirks matching on this name with the driver, short of one that jumps out of the laptop and hits the necessary engineers with a cluebat. Cheers, Peter > The nice thing > about about doing it here is: > > 1. We can ship the quirks with the driver and not have to rely on any > out of band mechanism > > 2. It's entirely independent of the desktop stack in use > > The mechanisms are independently helpful, though. ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Lack of middle button emulation makes HP life hard
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Peter Hutterer wrote: > On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 04:30:01PM -0800, Dan Nicholson wrote: >> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Keith Packard wrote: >> > >> > So, HP laptops come with a pointy-stick in the middle of the keyboard >> > and only two buttons. Not having middle-button emulation in this >> > environment is pretty harsh. >> > >> > I know it's not optimal to enable this by default, but I'm wondering >> > what can be done to not break these people's machines? >> >> Ship some .conf files in evdev? >> >> Section "InputClass" >> Identifier "NeedsMiddleButtonEmulation" >> MatchIsPointer "yes" >> MatchProduct "Crappy HP Laptop|Ancient Mouse" >> Option "Emulate3Buttons" "yes" >> EndSection >> >> You could do the same for wheel emulation and make my thinkpad work >> usefully out of the box. :) > > fwiw, I'm trying to get generic config script support into gnome, so we > don't have to ship a million xorg.conf.d snippets for various > configurations. > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=635486 That looks like a useful addition, but it still requires someone to code up the custom configurations and deploy them. The nice thing about about doing it here is: 1. We can ship the quirks with the driver and not have to rely on any out of band mechanism 2. It's entirely independent of the desktop stack in use The mechanisms are independently helpful, though. -- Dan ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Lack of middle button emulation makes HP life hard
On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 04:30:01PM -0800, Dan Nicholson wrote: > On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Keith Packard wrote: > > > > So, HP laptops come with a pointy-stick in the middle of the keyboard > > and only two buttons. Not having middle-button emulation in this > > environment is pretty harsh. > > > > I know it's not optimal to enable this by default, but I'm wondering > > what can be done to not break these people's machines? > > Ship some .conf files in evdev? > > Section "InputClass" > Identifier "NeedsMiddleButtonEmulation" > MatchIsPointer "yes" > MatchProduct "Crappy HP Laptop|Ancient Mouse" > Option "Emulate3Buttons" "yes" > EndSection > > You could do the same for wheel emulation and make my thinkpad work > usefully out of the box. :) fwiw, I'm trying to get generic config script support into gnome, so we don't have to ship a million xorg.conf.d snippets for various configurations. https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=635486 Cheers, Peter ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Lack of middle button emulation makes HP life hard
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Keith Packard wrote: > > So, HP laptops come with a pointy-stick in the middle of the keyboard > and only two buttons. Not having middle-button emulation in this > environment is pretty harsh. > > I know it's not optimal to enable this by default, but I'm wondering > what can be done to not break these people's machines? Ship some .conf files in evdev? Section "InputClass" Identifier "NeedsMiddleButtonEmulation" MatchIsPointer "yes" MatchProduct "Crappy HP Laptop|Ancient Mouse" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "yes" EndSection You could do the same for wheel emulation and make my thinkpad work usefully out of the box. :) -- Dan ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Lack of middle button emulation makes HP life hard
On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 12:44:40PM -0500, Pat Suwalski wrote: > On 08/12/10 12:25 PM, Keith Packard wrote: > > > >So, HP laptops come with a pointy-stick in the middle of the keyboard > >and only two buttons. Not having middle-button emulation in this > >environment is pretty harsh. > > > >I know it's not optimal to enable this by default, but I'm wondering > >what can be done to not break these people's machines? > > From a user's point of view, I'd expect to see this in the GUI with > the rest of the mouse properties. https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=633863 Cheers, Peter ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Lack of middle button emulation makes HP life hard
> "PS" == Pat Suwalski writes: PS> From a user's point of view, I'd expect to see this in the GUI PS> with the rest of the mouse properties. "GUI with mouse properties" is not a universal concept. I still use: Section "InputDevice" Identifier "evRelMouse" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "on" ... in my xorg.conf. -JimC -- James Cloos OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6 ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Lack of middle button emulation makes HP life hard
On 08/12/10 12:25 PM, Keith Packard wrote: So, HP laptops come with a pointy-stick in the middle of the keyboard and only two buttons. Not having middle-button emulation in this environment is pretty harsh. I know it's not optimal to enable this by default, but I'm wondering what can be done to not break these people's machines? From a user's point of view, I'd expect to see this in the GUI with the rest of the mouse properties. --Pat ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
