Re: [Xpert]Re: Re: Re: Voodoo 3 and 4.2.0
On Friday 10 May 2002 05:45 pm, Billy Biggs wrote: > Unfortunately, in X you can't yet change the desktop resolution, only > the visible resolution: the 2D desktop will still eat up all the video > RAM. So while it might work in Windows, I don't think it will work in X > until xrandr is done. In that case, you'll have to make 2 "screen" environments... or have your desktop at a sane resolution ;-) Frank -- homepage: www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m9917684 jabber (=IM): [EMAIL PROTECTED] No part of this copyright message may be reproduced, read or seen, dead or alive or by any means, including but not limited to telepathy without the benevolence of the author. ___ Xpert mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/xpert
Re: [Xpert]Re: Re: Re: Voodoo 3 and 4.2.0
Frank Van Damme ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > On Friday 10 May 2002 03:01 pm, Jules Bean wrote: > > If I run my desktop@1600x1200 on a voodoo 3 (which I am at the > > moment), but load a 3D game which switches the resolution down to > > something more sane like 800x600, will that game be able to use DRI > > then, at that reduced resolution? Or would I have to restart the X > > server at a lower resolution? > > > > That would be a nice thing to support, if it is possible to support > > it. > > Since that game changes the X server's resolution, there is no problem > at all. There would be one if that game crashed ;-) Unfortunately, in X you can't yet change the desktop resolution, only the visible resolution: the 2D desktop will still eat up all the video RAM. So while it might work in Windows, I don't think it will work in X until xrandr is done. -- Billy Biggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Xpert mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/xpert
Re: [Xpert]Re: Re: Re: Voodoo 3 and 4.2.0
On Friday, May 10, 2002, Jules Bean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 11:00:51PM +0200, Frank Van Damme wrote: >> On Thursday 09 May 2002 10:12 pm, Mike A. Harris wrote: >> >> > Might not sound insane, but the bare fact is that it does not >> > work in XFree86. I could care less personally if it ever does, >> > as it is obsolete hardware. I only care that XFree86 does not >> > crash. If nobody else is interested in fixing it either, then I >> > believe the X/DRI sources should detect this problem and disable >> > it by default as I have done, unless we now consider it ok for >> > the X server to crash for no reason other than it being >> > configured in a way that the drivers do not support currently. >> >> Not as obsolete as you think. Untill a few months ago I ran a voodoo3 3000 >> for playing quake which is bearable @ 920*7something. Still it would make no >> sense to run it @1600*1200 (no question) so you're using OR dri, OR >> desktop@1600*1200. Conclusion: no problem at all. > >If I run my desktop@1600x1200 on a voodoo 3 (which I am at the >moment), but load a 3D game which switches the resolution down to >something more sane like 800x600, will that game be able to use DRI >then, at that reduced resolution? Or would I have to restart the X >server at a lower resolution? > >That would be a nice thing to support, if it is possible to support >it. > >Jules > >___ >Xpert mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/xpert > It already happens. What Mike Harris is saying is that when you run at say 1600x1200 the X server cannot reclaim the memory used by the 2D display which is say 384 bytes at 1600x1200 @ 16 bit colour, so the game can only use the rest of the 10-12 MB to store its textures for the game when it switches resolution and because most games now are written for 64MB cards this will sometimes not be enough. If you stick to older games like Quake 3 and below then you should have less problems. Michael. ___ Xpert mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/xpert
Re: [Xpert]Re: Re: Re: Voodoo 3 and 4.2.0
On Friday 10 May 2002 03:01 pm, Jules Bean wrote: > If I run my desktop@1600x1200 on a voodoo 3 (which I am at the > moment), but load a 3D game which switches the resolution down to > something more sane like 800x600, will that game be able to use DRI > then, at that reduced resolution? Or would I have to restart the X > server at a lower resolution? > > That would be a nice thing to support, if it is possible to support > it. Since that game changes the X server's resolution, there is no problem at all. There would be one if that game crashed ;-) Frank -- homepage: www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m9917684 jabber (=IM): [EMAIL PROTECTED] No part of this copyright message may be reproduced, read or seen, dead or alive or by any means, including but not limited to telepathy without the benevolence of the author. ___ Xpert mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/xpert
Re: [Xpert]Re: Re: Re: Voodoo 3 and 4.2.0
On Thu, May 09, 2002 at 11:00:51PM +0200, Frank Van Damme wrote: > On Thursday 09 May 2002 10:12 pm, Mike A. Harris wrote: > > > Might not sound insane, but the bare fact is that it does not > > work in XFree86. I could care less personally if it ever does, > > as it is obsolete hardware. I only care that XFree86 does not > > crash. If nobody else is interested in fixing it either, then I > > believe the X/DRI sources should detect this problem and disable > > it by default as I have done, unless we now consider it ok for > > the X server to crash for no reason other than it being > > configured in a way that the drivers do not support currently. > > Not as obsolete as you think. Untill a few months ago I ran a voodoo3 3000 > for playing quake which is bearable @ 920*7something. Still it would make no > sense to run it @1600*1200 (no question) so you're using OR dri, OR > desktop@1600*1200. Conclusion: no problem at all. If I run my desktop@1600x1200 on a voodoo 3 (which I am at the moment), but load a 3D game which switches the resolution down to something more sane like 800x600, will that game be able to use DRI then, at that reduced resolution? Or would I have to restart the X server at a lower resolution? That would be a nice thing to support, if it is possible to support it. Jules ___ Xpert mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/xpert
Re: [Xpert]Re: Re: Re: Voodoo 3 and 4.2.0
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 #if Mike A. Harris > On Thu, 9 May 2002, Michael wrote: > >> >> High resolution video requires a lot of video memory. DRI > >> >> requires approximately four TIMES that much video memory to > >> >> work properly. However, people are using insane high > >> >> resolutions like 1600x1200 and using DRI, then running > >> >> Wolfenstein 3D, and it crashes. Hmm, gee... I wonder why. > > > >Perhaps because the voodoo3 will happily run at these resolutions? > >Doesn't sound insane to me. > But until such bugs are truely fixed, stability trumps whiz-bang. Absolutely fine with me, as an owner of a Voodoo3. Rik - -- http://rikkus.info -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE82uZf6rehpl6X9l0RAloTAJ9UCzBbb4vVeYnb9Z5w41rs3dE8awCcCHO4 xzDkEweAoUTbT65PIdWjlqg= =OuWy -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Xpert mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/xpert
Re: [Xpert]Re: Re: Re: Voodoo 3 and 4.2.0
On Thursday 09 May 2002 10:12 pm, Mike A. Harris wrote: > Might not sound insane, but the bare fact is that it does not > work in XFree86. I could care less personally if it ever does, > as it is obsolete hardware. I only care that XFree86 does not > crash. If nobody else is interested in fixing it either, then I > believe the X/DRI sources should detect this problem and disable > it by default as I have done, unless we now consider it ok for > the X server to crash for no reason other than it being > configured in a way that the drivers do not support currently. Not as obsolete as you think. Untill a few months ago I ran a voodoo3 3000 for playing quake which is bearable @ 920*7something. Still it would make no sense to run it @1600*1200 (no question) so you're using OR dri, OR desktop@1600*1200. Conclusion: no problem at all. Frank -- homepage: www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m9917684 jabber (=IM): [EMAIL PROTECTED] No part of this copyright message may be reproduced, read or seen, dead or alive or by any means, including but not limited to telepathy without the benevolence of the author. ___ Xpert mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/xpert
[Xpert]Re: Re: Re: Voodoo 3 and 4.2.0
On Thu, 9 May 2002, Michael wrote: >> >> High resolution video requires a lot of video memory. DRI >> >> requires approximately four TIMES that much video memory to work >> >> properly. However, people are using insane high resolutions like >> >> 1600x1200 and using DRI, then running Wolfenstein 3D, and it >> >> crashes. Hmm, gee... I wonder why. > >Perhaps because the voodoo3 will happily run at these resolutions? >Doesn't sound insane to me. Might not sound insane, but the bare fact is that it does not work in XFree86. I could care less personally if it ever does, as it is obsolete hardware. I only care that XFree86 does not crash. If nobody else is interested in fixing it either, then I believe the X/DRI sources should detect this problem and disable it by default as I have done, unless we now consider it ok for the X server to crash for no reason other than it being configured in a way that the drivers do not support currently. I am interested in hearing the opinions of DRI and XFree86 project members on the this particular issue with the tdfx driver. I have a feeling however that the DRI developers favor stability, reliability, and security over driver features, supported resolutions and the like. If someone wants to modify a driver and use it in a known unstable manner, and they're lucky enough to not trigger problem behaviour, or to trigger it infrequently enough that it doesn't bother them, that is their perogative. But it is not acceptable IMHO to knowingly ship a driver which crashes, and for which the reason for the crash can be easily fixed or worked around by detecting problem configurations and disabling features known to be unstable. If someone wants to see this problem fixed in a better way than just being worked around by disabling the known problematic configuration, then it is a good project for someone to work on as a personal itch to scratch, and to ensure that the tdfx drivers continue to function and to access as many features of the hardware as possible. Unmaintained drivers eventually become non-working drivers, and eventually become completely disabled drivers. As hardware becomes older, and nobody is funding development of the code, there is less and less incentive to fix bugs in the code, when there are fixed amount of human resources available, and newer drivers for more modern hardware have their own fare share of bugs needing fixing. It makes the most sense to spend resources first on the modern hardware, and much lower priority on the older hardware. It is in these situations when the open source development community needs to step in and scratch their personal itch by hacking on code and contributing it. Not unlike the Linux kernel's own developmental processes. Fortunately, due to the good work that the DRI guys, and others have done in the past on the tdfx drivers, they are in fairly good shape now. This one problem is the only major problem that pops up now that I can think of on Voodoo 3/Banshee hardware. If someone is interested in solving this for real, let me know, and I will put the Voodoo 3 specs up and provide a URL to them. Also, it would be a good idea to join the #dri-devel meetings on irc.openprojects.net on Mondays at 4pm EST to discuss how one might go about finding/fixing the problem. I'm sure that Daryll Strauss, and others who have worked on this code before, will be glad to help out anyone interested by providing pointers. But until such bugs are truely fixed, stability trumps whiz-bang. -- Mike A. Harris Shipping/mailing address: OS Systems Engineer 190 Pittsburgh Ave., Sault Ste. Marie, XFree86 maintainer Ontario, Canada, P6C 5B3 Red Hat Inc. http://www.redhat.com ftp://people.redhat.com/mharris ___ Xpert mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/xpert
