Re: [ydl-gen] quid ps3 linux after 2012 - addendum
2011/4/28 Jim Hart jh...@bates.edu I'd like to weigh in here, if I may. The Intel designs have one very major drawback...heat. Which implies noise! I've been working off and on for over a year to locate inexpensive parts to build the functional (but hardly aesthetic) equivalent of my beloved G4 Cube. The fan-less CPU cooler, alone, weighs nearly as much and is nearly as large as the Cube, and cost $75 on e-Bay. The cost of the rest of the parts that I've found is still over $1600, which I can 't afford. So, yes, cheap Intel-based systems are available. But they aren't quiet, never mind silent. (I recommend that anyone spends some time in a soundproof room and notice what happens physically and emotionally. The constant noise in our world causes stress and tension that we don't recognize because it's always there.) So, anything that will keep my Cube(s) going is welcome. snip Regards to all, The heat you complain of is inevitable as chips generally get more complex and is not an intel problem exclusively. However, there are low power alternatives - I think that you can get a relatively quiet intel system that would probably be probably give you about the same oomph or more than your G4 cube. Have you looked at Atoms? They aren't top of the line performance-wise but I'm guessing they would be good enough if you're happy with the G4. Or for more $$$ perhaps a macbook air. I hear they are quiet and run cool too. Aesthetics? Can't argue with that. Keep your cube, it'll be a collector's item if not so already. Don't get me wrong, I don't advocate intel/x86. It's just that at this point in time, there is very little else. Maybe if more people embrace ARM - this could happen given recent news. I wait but somehow not too hopefully ;). Robert -- chown -R us ./base ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try 'lt;keywords site:us.fixstars.com'
Re: [ydl-gen] quid ps3 linux after 2012 - addendum
I'd like to weigh in here, if I may. The Intel designs have one very major drawback...heat. Which implies noise! I've been working off and on for over a year to locate inexpensive parts to build the functional (but hardly aesthetic) equivalent of my beloved G4 Cube. The fan-less CPU cooler, alone, weighs nearly as much and is nearly as large as the Cube, and cost $75 on e-Bay. The cost of the rest of the parts that I've found is still over $1600, which I can 't afford. So, yes, cheap Intel-based systems are available. But they aren't quiet, never mind silent. (I recommend that anyone spends some time in a soundproof room and notice what happens physically and emotionally. The constant noise in our world causes stress and tension that we don't recognize because it's always there.) So, anything that will keep my Cube(s) going is welcome. That said, the O.S. isn't the only or even, necessarily, the biggest roadblock anymore. More and more applications aren't available for PPC. The newest version of Neooffice, for example, is Intel only. Some (I forget which one I ran across) won't even build from source on PPC. It's one thing for the O.S. to be CPU dependent, but desktop applications? What's with that? End of rant. I just had to say something because of the cost argument. Regards to all, Jim Hart On 3/9/11 12:25 PM, Derick Centeno wrote: Although I appreciate learning that Gentoo Linux (and others) are active in supporting the PowerPC the repairs I, and I'm sure others, need to make on the PowerPC one has are such that it is actually cheaper to acquire an x_86 system removing myself, and others similarly affected, from using any PowerPC Linux thereby causing in effect an ever smaller pool of PowerPC Linux users. ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try 'lt;keywords site:us.fixstars.com'
Re: [ydl-gen] quid ps3 linux after 2012 - addendum
Derick: Debian is still actively developing a desktop PPC version, the newest stable release, Squeeze, having been released just this past February. Now, it's on to Wheezy. I am at the moment installing the latest test version, just out today, on my PowerMac G4 digital audio. Hopefully, a bug in the Squeeze installer that assigned the wrong sound module to my particular machine has been fixed. True, no one is making any money off this endeavor. But, the bottom line is not the only line. Cheers, Tom On Mar 9, 2011, at 10:25 AM, Derick Centeno wrote: Thanks, I appreciate the correction. The question however remains in terms of the quality of PowerPC support. There is a bit of a difference between support for IBM POWER server architectures, which institutions (corporate and educational) tend to use versus consumer grade computers such as the various older Apple and other PowerPC desktop/laptop products which yet remain available on ebay or elsewhere becoming increasingly more expensive to replace when one or another of these consumer grade products break down. This situation is something I'm very familiar with by the way, and I can testify to the challenge and difficulty of an individual justifying the expense of hundreds of dollars to repair a component needed by a home-based PowerPC system one owns versus what institutions can pay or afford out of petty cash or other easily available funding or other sources. The economies of scale are very, very different. Between the choice of expenditures a sole individual must consider essentials such as food, or child support or other responsibilities - car/bus fare to search or find work, rent, produce résumés, etc. - versus replacing an expensive component for an aging machine utilizing Linux software which no longer receives primary support (example Fedora nor Ubuntu provide primary level support for PowerPC systems). Many will switch to x86_Linux running on Intel or Cygwin or Cygwin-X (which runs within Windows 7 while recreating the Linux environment) because for the same hundreds one would spend on a PowerPC component one can acquire either a new duo- or quad-core system which incorporates IBM's advances past the PowerPC/Cell era! The independent individual when their system is broken cannot bother with the nuances of the superior architecture of the PowerPC/Cell because it is no longer a platform which they can work on instead one must face that it has become something which must be replaced if they are a student or even other professional experiencing various stages of financial stress where money is sparse. Replacement for the professional is even more important in any attempt to keep one's skill set even close to current; again in such a scenario individual's cannot choose as easily as those associated with corporations and/or academic institutions or research centers. Although I appreciate learning that Gentoo Linux (and others) are active in supporting the PowerPC the repairs I, and I'm sure others, need to make on the PowerPC one has are such that it is actually cheaper to acquire an x_86 system removing myself, and others similarly affected, from using any PowerPC Linux thereby causing in effect an ever smaller pool of PowerPC Linux users. The financial realities are such that although I'm happy to learn that at least three distributions continue to develop for the PowerPC, the finances independent individuals face, who are not connected to research or academic or corporate institutions, are forcing a greater contraction of users away from PowerPC Linux. Oddly enough support for Linux mobile systems via Android are growing, but that is a different technology platform entirely which doesn't matter to the independent individual whose system requires repairs. On 3/9/2011 5:54 AM, nello martuscielli wrote: On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Atro Tossavainen atossava+...@cc.helsinki.fi wrote: There are no Linux distributions actively developing either for the PowerPC or the Cell. Linux has moved on to develop for multi-core Intel and similar systems. The recently released Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6 continues to be supported on IBM POWER server architectures, which are ppc. This is of zero interest and no consequence to PowerPC workstation users, but it does invalidate the point that there would be no Linux distributions actively developing for the Power architecture. indeed, there are also Gentoo, CRUX PPC and Archlinux PPC. cheers, nell -- Power Mac G4 AGP 450MHz - CRUX PPC (32bit) 2.7 ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try 'lt;keywords site:us.fixstars.com' ___ yellowdog-general mailing list -
Re: [ydl-gen] quid ps3 linux after 2012 - addendum
hallo Derick, i agree with you and i must say you did a pretty good analisys. I think there are no more chances to do business around low/mid level Power Architecture machines. Power.org consortium still is a question mark for me... But that's the crucial point... nowdays our machines are only supported from community distros based on no-profit project but _they are supported_. cheers, -- Power Mac G4 AGP 450MHz - CRUX PPC (32bit) ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try 'lt;keywords site:us.fixstars.com'
Re: [ydl-gen] quid ps3 linux after 2012 - addendum
There are no Linux distributions actively developing either for the PowerPC or the Cell. Linux has moved on to develop for multi-core Intel and similar systems. The recently released Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6 continues to be supported on IBM POWER server architectures, which are ppc. This is of zero interest and no consequence to PowerPC workstation users, but it does invalidate the point that there would be no Linux distributions actively developing for the Power architecture. -- Atro Tossavainen (Mr.) / Working for Infinite Mho Oy in 2011 Techno-Amish UNIX Dinosaur/ +358-40-529-4071, -44-5000-600 / and beyond? who knows URL : http : / / www . infinitemho . fi / ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try 'lt;keywords site:us.fixstars.com'
Re: [ydl-gen] quid ps3 linux after 2012 - addendum
Thanks, I appreciate the correction. The question however remains in terms of the quality of PowerPC support. There is a bit of a difference between support for IBM POWER server architectures, which institutions (corporate and educational) tend to use versus consumer grade computers such as the various older Apple and other PowerPC desktop/laptop products which yet remain available on ebay or elsewhere becoming increasingly more expensive to replace when one or another of these consumer grade products break down. This situation is something I'm very familiar with by the way, and I can testify to the challenge and difficulty of an individual justifying the expense of hundreds of dollars to repair a component needed by a home-based PowerPC system one owns versus what institutions can pay or afford out of petty cash or other easily available funding or other sources. The economies of scale are very, very different. Between the choice of expenditures a sole individual must consider essentials such as food, or child support or other responsibilities - car/bus fare to search or find work, rent, produce résumés, etc. - versus replacing an expensive component for an aging machine utilizing Linux software which no longer receives primary support (example Fedora nor Ubuntu provide primary level support for PowerPC systems). Many will switch to x86_Linux running on Intel or Cygwin or Cygwin-X (which runs within Windows 7 while recreating the Linux environment) because for the same hundreds one would spend on a PowerPC component one can acquire either a new duo- or quad-core system which incorporates IBM's advances past the PowerPC/Cell era! The independent individual when their system is broken cannot bother with the nuances of the superior architecture of the PowerPC/Cell because it is no longer a platform which they can work on instead one must face that it has become something which must be replaced if they are a student or even other professional experiencing various stages of financial stress where money is sparse. Replacement for the professional is even more important in any attempt to keep one's skill set even close to current; again in such a scenario individual's cannot choose as easily as those associated with corporations and/or academic institutions or research centers. Although I appreciate learning that Gentoo Linux (and others) are active in supporting the PowerPC the repairs I, and I'm sure others, need to make on the PowerPC one has are such that it is actually cheaper to acquire an x_86 system removing myself, and others similarly affected, from using any PowerPC Linux thereby causing in effect an ever smaller pool of PowerPC Linux users. The financial realities are such that although I'm happy to learn that at least three distributions continue to develop for the PowerPC, the finances independent individuals face, who are not connected to research or academic or corporate institutions, are forcing a greater contraction of users away from PowerPC Linux. Oddly enough support for Linux mobile systems via Android are growing, but that is a different technology platform entirely which doesn't matter to the independent individual whose system requires repairs. On 3/9/2011 5:54 AM, nello martuscielli wrote: On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Atro Tossavainen atossava+...@cc.helsinki.fi wrote: There are no Linux distributions actively developing either for the PowerPC or the Cell. Linux has moved on to develop for multi-core Intel and similar systems. The recently released Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6 continues to be supported on IBM POWER server architectures, which are ppc. This is of zero interest and no consequence to PowerPC workstation users, but it does invalidate the point that there would be no Linux distributions actively developing for the Power architecture. indeed, there are also Gentoo, CRUX PPC and Archlinux PPC. cheers, nell -- Power Mac G4 AGP 450MHz - CRUX PPC (32bit) 2.7 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try 'lt;keywords site:us.fixstars.com'
[ydl-gen] quid ps3 linux after 2012
hello yellowdoglinux list how to keep using linux on a PS3 with yellowdoglinux after 2012 (end of official updates) ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try 'lt;keywords site:us.fixstars.com'
Re: [ydl-gen] quid ps3 linux after 2012
John, that depends on what you choose to do. Sony, as you know ended the option of supporting the OtherOS option quite sometime ago. Intel, has been moving for some years to producing more multi-core based PCs, currently duo-core models are inexpensive, quad-core are considered intermediate, and hex-core models are top of the line. I've read that 12-core and higher exist and are at various stages of development. You may not realize this but IBM has integrated what they learned in building the PowerPC and the Cell into the multi-core systems which I described. In other words, the Cell is no longer the primary must have hardware system; it lost that status quite sometime ago. There are no Linux distributions actively developing either for the PowerPC or the Cell. Linux has moved on to develop for multi-core Intel and similar systems. Of course, that is merely my opinion. All the best... On 3/8/2011 3:23 PM, john.swilt...@wanadoo.fr wrote: hello yellowdoglinux list how to keep using linux on a PS3 with yellowdoglinux after 2012 (end of official updates) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try 'lt;keywords site:us.fixstars.com'
Re: [ydl-gen] quid ps3 linux after 2012 - addendum
John, that depends on what you choose to do. Sony, as you know ended the option of supporting the OtherOS option quite sometime ago. Intel, has been moving for some years to producing more multi-core based PCs, currently duo-core models are inexpensive, quad-core are considered intermediate, and hex-core models are top of the line. I've read that 12-core and higher exist and are at various stages of development. You may not realize this but IBM has integrated what they learned in building the PowerPC and the Cell into the multi-core systems which I described. In other words, the Cell is no longer the primary must have hardware system; it lost that status quite sometime ago. There are no Linux distributions actively developing either for the PowerPC or the Cell. Linux has moved on to develop for multi-core Intel and similar systems. It may interest you that YDL for CUDA, runs on Intel only. See here: http://www.ydl.net/ydl_cuda/support/ Of course, that is merely my opinion. All the best... On 3/8/2011 3:23 PM, john.swilt...@wanadoo.fr wrote: hello yellowdoglinux list how to keep using linux on a PS3 with yellowdoglinux after 2012 (end of official updates) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ yellowdog-general mailing list - yellowdog-general@lists.fixstars.com Unsuscribe info: http://lists.fixstars.com/mailman/listinfo/yellowdog-general HINT: to Google archives, try 'lt;keywords site:us.fixstars.com'
