Re: [yocto] OE Linux & board-support-package
Hello J, Please, could you be more specific? Thank you, Zee ___ On Thu, May 5, 2022 at 5:42 AM jchludzinski via lists.yoctoproject.org wrote: > > OE Linux uses device tree files (*.dts and *.dtsi files), so is there > any need for a board-support-package? > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#56997): https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/message/56997 Mute This Topic: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/mt/90904726/21656 Group Owner: yocto+ow...@lists.yoctoproject.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/unsub [arch...@mail-archive.com] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Re: [yocto] OE Linux & board-support-package
A board-support-package (BSP) is software that provides a layer of abstraction from the physical board specifics for the host embedded OS (e.g., VXworks). I believe the device tree files (*.dts, *dtsi) in OE Linux provide the same function. It allows to OE kernel code to be independent of device specifics. On 2022-05-05 01:54, Zoran Stojsavljevic wrote: Hello J, Please, could you be more specific? Thank you, Zee ___ On Thu, May 5, 2022 at 5:42 AM jchludzinski via lists.yoctoproject.org wrote: OE Linux uses device tree files (*.dts and *.dtsi files), so is there any need for a board-support-package? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#56999): https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/message/56999 Mute This Topic: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/mt/90904726/21656 Group Owner: yocto+ow...@lists.yoctoproject.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/unsub [arch...@mail-archive.com] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Re: [yocto] OE Linux & board-support-package
On 5/5/22 08:39, jchludzinski via lists.yoctoproject.org wrote: > A board-support-package (BSP) is software that provides a layer of > abstraction from the physical board specifics for the host embedded OS > (e.g., VXworks). > > I believe the device tree files (*.dts, *dtsi) in OE Linux provide the > same function. It allows to OE kernel code to be independent of device > specifics. The Device Tree files are just descriptions of the hardware. In a perfect world, you could indeed use the same mainline kernel to support all possible devices. However, that kernel would be unnecessarily big for your custom system. You most probably want to customize its configuration, and may also need custom kernel drivers and patches. There's also the need for a bootloader compiled for your platform. That's why we need BSPs :-) Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Opdenacker, Bootlin Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering https://bootlin.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#57000): https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/message/57000 Mute This Topic: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/mt/90904726/21656 Group Owner: yocto+ow...@lists.yoctoproject.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/unsub [arch...@mail-archive.com] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Re: [yocto] OE Linux & board-support-package
OK, let's go with that. I've watched the "Live Coding with Yocto Project #1: download and first build" youtube video. Where is the BSP built in this procedure? On 2022-05-05 03:16, Michael Opdenacker via lists.yoctoproject.org wrote: On 5/5/22 08:39, jchludzinski via lists.yoctoproject.org wrote: A board-support-package (BSP) is software that provides a layer of abstraction from the physical board specifics for the host embedded OS (e.g., VXworks). I believe the device tree files (*.dts, *dtsi) in OE Linux provide the same function. It allows to OE kernel code to be independent of device specifics. The Device Tree files are just descriptions of the hardware. In a perfect world, you could indeed use the same mainline kernel to support all possible devices. However, that kernel would be unnecessarily big for your custom system. You most probably want to customize its configuration, and may also need custom kernel drivers and patches. There's also the need for a bootloader compiled for your platform. That's why we need BSPs :-) Cheers, Michael. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#57001): https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/message/57001 Mute This Topic: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/mt/90904726/21656 Group Owner: yocto+ow...@lists.yoctoproject.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/unsub [arch...@mail-archive.com] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Re: [yocto] OE Linux & board-support-package
Howdy! Am Do., 5. Mai 2022 um 10:43 Uhr schrieb jchludzinski via lists.yoctoproject.org : > > OK, let's go with that. > > I've watched the "Live Coding with Yocto Project #1: download and first > build" youtube video. Where is the BSP built in this procedure? The BSP that is implicitly used in that video is the generic QEMU one, which comes included with poky. Technically speaking, it lives in https://git.yoctoproject.org/poky/tree/meta/conf/machine and https://git.yoctoproject.org/poky/tree/meta/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-yocto_5.15.bb A BSP can be many things, and this one is a rather small one, as booting into and running linux on QEMU doesn't need patching and all that, so in that case it comes pretty close to the perfect world that Michael mentioned. Greetz, Josef (who did that video, actually) > > > > On 2022-05-05 03:16, Michael Opdenacker via lists.yoctoproject.org > wrote: > > On 5/5/22 08:39, jchludzinski via lists.yoctoproject.org wrote: > >> A board-support-package (BSP) is software that provides a layer of > >> abstraction from the physical board specifics for the host embedded OS > >> (e.g., VXworks). > >> > >> I believe the device tree files (*.dts, *dtsi) in OE Linux provide the > >> same function. It allows to OE kernel code to be independent of device > >> specifics. > > > > > > The Device Tree files are just descriptions of the hardware. In a > > perfect world, you could indeed use the same mainline kernel to support > > all possible devices. However, that kernel would be unnecessarily big > > for your custom system. You most probably want to customize its > > configuration, and may also need custom kernel drivers and patches. > > There's also the need for a bootloader compiled for your platform. > > > > That's why we need BSPs :-) > > > > Cheers, > > Michael. > > > > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#57002): https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/message/57002 Mute This Topic: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/mt/90904726/21656 Group Owner: yocto+ow...@lists.yoctoproject.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/unsub [arch...@mail-archive.com] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Re: [yocto] OE Linux & board-support-package
OK, let me try this: With other embedded OS's, the hardware specifics that are in the BSP are in the device trees in Linux. I assume the BSP's for OE Linux are rather simple? On 2022-05-05 04:47, Josef Holzmayr wrote: Howdy! Am Do., 5. Mai 2022 um 10:43 Uhr schrieb jchludzinski via lists.yoctoproject.org : OK, let's go with that. I've watched the "Live Coding with Yocto Project #1: download and first build" youtube video. Where is the BSP built in this procedure? The BSP that is implicitly used in that video is the generic QEMU one, which comes included with poky. Technically speaking, it lives in https://git.yoctoproject.org/poky/tree/meta/conf/machine and https://git.yoctoproject.org/poky/tree/meta/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-yocto_5.15.bb A BSP can be many things, and this one is a rather small one, as booting into and running linux on QEMU doesn't need patching and all that, so in that case it comes pretty close to the perfect world that Michael mentioned. Greetz, Josef (who did that video, actually) On 2022-05-05 03:16, Michael Opdenacker via lists.yoctoproject.org wrote: > On 5/5/22 08:39, jchludzinski via lists.yoctoproject.org wrote: >> A board-support-package (BSP) is software that provides a layer of >> abstraction from the physical board specifics for the host embedded OS >> (e.g., VXworks). >> >> I believe the device tree files (*.dts, *dtsi) in OE Linux provide the >> same function. It allows to OE kernel code to be independent of device >> specifics. > > > The Device Tree files are just descriptions of the hardware. In a > perfect world, you could indeed use the same mainline kernel to support > all possible devices. However, that kernel would be unnecessarily big > for your custom system. You most probably want to customize its > configuration, and may also need custom kernel drivers and patches. > There's also the need for a bootloader compiled for your platform. > > That's why we need BSPs :-) > > Cheers, > Michael. > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#57003): https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/message/57003 Mute This Topic: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/mt/90904726/21656 Group Owner: yocto+ow...@lists.yoctoproject.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/unsub [arch...@mail-archive.com] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Re: [yocto] OE Linux & board-support-package
BSP is not a well defined term in embedded Linux. Back in the day, Montavista tried to popularise the term LSP, meaning Linux Support Package but it never caught on. These days, BSP generally means all the things you need to run a basic system. So that's bootloader, device tree, kernel config, kernel patches (if any), and firmware blobs. It can also include user space config such as video codecs, opengl libraries, and systemd units to start the respective daemons. SoC and SoM vendors often overload their OE BSPs with irrelevant demo apps as well. Constant bugbear of system integrators. HTH, Chris On 5 May 2022 10:51:39 BST, "jchludzinski via lists.yoctoproject.org" wrote: >OK, let me try this: > >With other embedded OS's, the hardware specifics that are in the BSP are in >the device trees in Linux. I assume the BSP's for OE Linux are rather simple? > > > >On 2022-05-05 04:47, Josef Holzmayr wrote: >> Howdy! >> >> Am Do., 5. Mai 2022 um 10:43 Uhr schrieb jchludzinski via >> lists.yoctoproject.org >> : >>> >>> OK, let's go with that. >>> >>> I've watched the "Live Coding with Yocto Project #1: download and first >>> build" youtube video. Where is the BSP built in this procedure? >> >> The BSP that is implicitly used in that video is the generic QEMU one, >> which comes included with poky. Technically speaking, it lives in >> https://git.yoctoproject.org/poky/tree/meta/conf/machine and >> https://git.yoctoproject.org/poky/tree/meta/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-yocto_5.15.bb >> >> A BSP can be many things, and this one is a rather small one, as >> booting into and running linux on QEMU doesn't need patching and all >> that, so in that case it comes pretty close to the perfect world that >> Michael mentioned. >> >> Greetz, >> Josef (who did that video, actually) >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2022-05-05 03:16, Michael Opdenacker via lists.yoctoproject.org >>> wrote: >>> > On 5/5/22 08:39, jchludzinski via lists.yoctoproject.org wrote: >>> >> A board-support-package (BSP) is software that provides a layer of >>> >> abstraction from the physical board specifics for the host embedded OS >>> >> (e.g., VXworks). >>> >> >>> >> I believe the device tree files (*.dts, *dtsi) in OE Linux provide the >>> >> same function. It allows to OE kernel code to be independent of device >>> >> specifics. >>> > >>> > >>> > The Device Tree files are just descriptions of the hardware. In a >>> > perfect world, you could indeed use the same mainline kernel to support >>> > all possible devices. However, that kernel would be unnecessarily big >>> > for your custom system. You most probably want to customize its >>> > configuration, and may also need custom kernel drivers and patches. >>> > There's also the need for a bootloader compiled for your platform. >>> > >>> > That's why we need BSPs :-) >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > Michael. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#57004): https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/message/57004 Mute This Topic: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/mt/90904726/21656 Group Owner: yocto+ow...@lists.yoctoproject.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/unsub [arch...@mail-archive.com] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Re: [yocto] OE Linux & board-support-package
Demo apps is the least of the worst. They also add benchmarks, make tweaks to components that are in distribution (rather than hardware support) scope, and even go ahead and define their own distributions, and then make it impossible or very difficult to separate the distro from the BSP. Oh, and all of this on top of yocto from 2014. That's where the 'vendor from hell' moniker comes from. Alex On Thu, 5 May 2022 at 12:22, csimmonds wrote: > > BSP is not a well defined term in embedded Linux. Back in the day, Montavista > tried to popularise the term LSP, meaning Linux Support Package but it never > caught on. These days, BSP generally means all the things you need to run a > basic system. So that's bootloader, device tree, kernel config, kernel > patches (if any), and firmware blobs. It can also include user space config > such as video codecs, opengl libraries, and systemd units to start the > respective daemons. > > SoC and SoM vendors often overload their OE BSPs with irrelevant demo apps as > well. Constant bugbear of system integrators. > > HTH, > Chris > > On 5 May 2022 10:51:39 BST, "jchludzinski via lists.yoctoproject.org" > wrote: >> >> OK, let me try this: >> >> With other embedded OS's, the hardware specifics that are in the BSP are in >> the device trees in Linux. I assume the BSP's for OE Linux are rather simple? >> >> >> >> On 2022-05-05 04:47, Josef Holzmayr wrote: >>> >>> Howdy! >>> >>> Am Do., 5. Mai 2022 um 10:43 Uhr schrieb jchludzinski via >>> lists.yoctoproject.org >>> : OK, let's go with that. I've watched the "Live Coding with Yocto Project #1: download and first build" youtube video. Where is the BSP built in this procedure? >>> >>> >>> The BSP that is implicitly used in that video is the generic QEMU one, >>> which comes included with poky. Technically speaking, it lives in >>> https://git.yoctoproject.org/poky/tree/meta/conf/machine and >>> https://git.yoctoproject.org/poky/tree/meta/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-yocto_5.15.bb >>> >>> A BSP can be many things, and this one is a rather small one, as >>> booting into and running linux on QEMU doesn't need patching and all >>> that, so in that case it comes pretty close to the perfect world that >>> Michael mentioned. >>> >>> Greetz, >>> Josef (who did that video, actually) >>> On 2022-05-05 03:16, Michael Opdenacker via lists.yoctoproject.org wrote: > > On 5/5/22 08:39, jchludzinski via lists.yoctoproject.org wrote: >> >> A board-support-package (BSP) is software that provides a layer of >> abstraction from the physical board specifics for the host embedded OS >> (e.g., VXworks). >> >> I believe the device tree files (*.dts, *dtsi) in OE Linux provide the >> same function. It allows to OE kernel code to be independent of device >> specifics. > > > > The Device Tree files are just descriptions of the hardware. In a > perfect world, you could indeed use the same mainline kernel to support > all possible devices. However, that kernel would be unnecessarily big > for your custom system. You most probably want to customize its > configuration, and may also need custom kernel drivers and patches. > There's also the need for a bootloader compiled for your platform. > > That's why we need BSPs :-) > > Cheers, > Michael. > > > >>> >>> >>> > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#57005): https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/message/57005 Mute This Topic: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/mt/90904726/21656 Group Owner: yocto+ow...@lists.yoctoproject.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/unsub [arch...@mail-archive.com] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Re: [yocto] OE Linux & board-support-package
On 5 May 2022, at 04:42, jchludzinski via lists.yoctoproject.org wrote: > > OE Linux uses device tree files (*.dts and *.dtsi files), so is there any > need for a board-support-package? In the glorious future, they will be much smaller. Note how meta-arm has generic Intel BSPs, and thanks to recent standardisation in Arm (SystemReady, etc) there’s a generic-arm64 machine in meta-arm too. Of course, reality and theory rarely agree, and in the embedded/iot space there is a much greater need for customisation, so I don’t expect to see “BSPs” disappearing shortly. Ross IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#57009): https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/message/57009 Mute This Topic: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/mt/90904726/21656 Group Owner: yocto+ow...@lists.yoctoproject.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/unsub [arch...@mail-archive.com] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Re: [yocto] OE Linux & board-support-package
On Fri, 6 May 2022 at 13:55, Ross Burton wrote: > > OE Linux uses device tree files (*.dts and *.dtsi files), so is there any > > need for a board-support-package? > > In the glorious future, they will be much smaller. > > Note how meta-arm has generic Intel BSPs, and thanks to recent > standardisation in Arm (SystemReady, etc) there’s a generic-arm64 machine in > meta-arm too. > > Of course, reality and theory rarely agree, and in the embedded/iot space > there is a much greater need for customisation, so I don’t expect to see > “BSPs” disappearing shortly. There's an even more glorious and even more distant future, where all hardware supports virtio, and there is no need for custom vendor drivers at all. Also, everyone would be using risc-v by then. Alex -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#57010): https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/message/57010 Mute This Topic: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/mt/90904726/21656 Group Owner: yocto+ow...@lists.yoctoproject.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/unsub [arch...@mail-archive.com] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Re: [yocto] OE Linux & board-support-package
This is very interesting... How do some people, or system IT "designers", or System guys, perceive the term: "Board Support Package"??? Funny, isn't it? Or, at least, pejorative!? Zee ___ On Thu, May 5, 2022 at 5:42 AM jchludzinski via lists.yoctoproject.org wrote: > > OE Linux uses device tree files (*.dts and *.dtsi files), so is there > any need for a board-support-package? > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#57021): https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/message/57021 Mute This Topic: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/mt/90904726/21656 Group Owner: yocto+ow...@lists.yoctoproject.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.yoctoproject.org/g/yocto/unsub [arch...@mail-archive.com] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
