[zbmethod] Re: Advanced Team BLD
> When Heidi and I began trying team blindsolving in Orlando, we used > OLL+PLL. Now, she's learning COLL, and I'm already much faster with > it than PLL. What!!! Where did you find this girl? I can't even get Lisa to learn the 7 corner Orientations... > > However, I'm not sure how you could explain the ZB alg very well. > There are 12 sub-cases within each COLL case. I don't know how you > would hope to distinguish between them verbally. Sorry to harp on about it, but I think my naming scheme for the ZBLL case would be pretty useful. Using the "3 levels" concept (orientation, COLL case, edge permutation) you could always call it very easily. The codes for the edges are easy to learn, and are always the same for each case (I mean you never get anything outside of the set of 12) > ZBF2L is very helpful, though. Especially when you can get OLL skips > out of it. I think it's definitely something worth pursuing. > you also get OLL skips with VHF2L, although I don't know if one is better for it over the other, maybe Chris would calculate it for us :) Dan - team[zb] :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [zbmethod] Re: Definition of VH system.
Is there a web page (or list of algorithms) for this step? Thanks, DavidOn 11/13/05, Jason Baum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Chris, You have it right except for the 4th pair. VHF2L is done in two steps. First, you pair up the fourth pair. Then, you insert it while orienting LL edges. I'm not sure if the pair+insert cases count as VHF2L or ZBF2L, though. But yeah, VH is basically just a simplified form of the ZB method. -Jason YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "zbmethod" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [zbmethod] Re: Definition of VH system.
Try this one : http://www.necrophagous.co.uk/cubestation/f2l/f2ladvanced-influencingLLvh.php Christophe David Barr a écrit : > Is there a web page (or list of algorithms) for this step? > > Thanks, > > David > ___ Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger Téléchargez cette version sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Advanced Team BLD
--- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > you also get OLL skips with VHF2L, although I don't know if one is > better for it over the other, maybe Chris would calculate it for us :) Shouldn't it also be 1/27? As long as you are always ending with all correctly oriented edges, since you are not doing anything special with the corners, it should be the same. There are, however, cases that cannot be done using VH very easily (certain yucky connected cases and such), but there are only a few of those. Do you break them up and do VHF2L in those cases, too, Dan? ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [zbmethod] Re: Definition of VH system.
That page doesn't include the "pair up" maneuvers that it makes reference to. For example on these F2L algorithms (taken from Jessica's website), what are the "pair up" maneuvers that pair up the pieces on the last layer: 1) R2 D2 R D R' D R D2 R 3) R' D R' D' B' D B R2 5a) [D2] R' D B' D' B D' R (I guess that RUR'U'RUR'U' would work) 15) [D2] R2 D2 R D R' D R2 Is there another page that has the algs I'm looking for? Or, would VH solvers revert to standard CFOP when this is the last pair? David On 11/29/05, Christophe Thiriot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Try this one : > > http://www.necrophagous.co.uk/cubestation/f2l/f2ladvanced-influencingLLvh.php > > Christophe > > > > David Barr a écrit : > > > Is there a web page (or list of algorithms) for this step? > > > > Thanks, > > > > David > > > > > > > > > ___ > Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger > Téléchargez cette version sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "zbmethod" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Definition of VH system.
It says this right on the page: "After the "pair-up" stage, there are only 32 possible configurations of the pair and the LL edge-orientation. These are broken down into 2 groups of 16 cases, 1 group of connected pairs, and 1 group of seperated pairs. So if you know just 32 little tricks, you can almost always flip the LL edges to your advantage after the F2L. If you are unlucky you will have a case for which your algorithm isn't a simple pair up and insert, and in these cases it is very awkward to do anything about it. That is where learning specialised algorithms has a big advantage." Also, "almost always" is in bold print. ;) ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, David Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That page doesn't include the "pair up" maneuvers that it makes > reference to. For example on these F2L algorithms (taken from > Jessica's website), what are the "pair up" maneuvers that pair up the > pieces on the last layer: > > 1) R2 D2 R D R' D R D2 R > 3) R' D R' D' B' D B R2 > 5a) [D2] R' D B' D' B D' R (I guess that RUR'U'RUR'U' would work) > 15) [D2] R2 D2 R D R' D R2 > > Is there another page that has the algs I'm looking for? Or, would VH > solvers revert to standard CFOP when this is the last pair? > > David > > On 11/29/05, Christophe Thiriot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Try this one : > > > > http://www.necrophagous.co.uk/cubestation/f2l/f2ladvanced-influencingLLvh.php > > > > Christophe > > > > > > > > David Barr a écrit : > > > > > Is there a web page (or list of algorithms) for this step? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger > > Téléchargez cette version sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "zbmethod" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> AIDS in India: A "lurking bomb." Click and help stop AIDS now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/VpTY2A/lzNLAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Advanced Team BLD
> Sorry to harp on about it, but I think my naming scheme for the ZBLL > case would be pretty useful. Using the "3 levels" concept > (orientation, COLL case, edge permutation) you could always call it > very easily. The codes for the edges are easy to learn, and are always > the same for each case (I mean you never get anything outside of the > set of 12) Hey Dan, Sorry I didn't do this sooner, but I will soon be adding your naming scheme to my ZBLL pages. I think the block method is not enough to recognize quickly, and I think your idea for the edges is really good. I've got a million things to do on my list for school and cubing, but that is on my list. I don't think block recognition will work by itself, but will also require your edge technique to go with it. Chris team [zb] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 1.2 million kids a year are victims of human trafficking. Stop slavery. http://us.click.yahoo.com/WpTY2A/izNLAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Definition of VH system.
Hey David, Here are the ZBF2L algs that pair up those cases into a 3 move insert. Not sure if that is good enough though, or what you are looking for. 1) L' B' U2 B2 L' B' L2 2) F R U2 R' F' 5a) before [D2] do U' F' L F L' 15) before [D2] do U F' L F L' Do a z2 rotation after the setup with Jessica's alg to get to my notation (like F2 in case anyone does not like xyz notation). If you are looking to pair up the c/e pair you could start from the 3 move insert case and pair but not place. Not sure if that would work though. Chris --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, David Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That page doesn't include the "pair up" maneuvers that it makes > reference to. For example on these F2L algorithms (taken from > Jessica's website), what are the "pair up" maneuvers that pair up the > pieces on the last layer: > > 1) R2 D2 R D R' D R D2 R > 3) R' D R' D' B' D B R2 > 5a) [D2] R' D B' D' B D' R (I guess that RUR'U'RUR'U' would work) > 15) [D2] R2 D2 R D R' D R2 > > Is there another page that has the algs I'm looking for? Or, would VH > solvers revert to standard CFOP when this is the last pair? > > David > > On 11/29/05, Christophe Thiriot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Try this one : > > > > http://www.necrophagous.co.uk/cubestation/f2l/f2ladvanced-influencingLLvh.php > > > > Christophe > > > > > > > > David Barr a écrit : > > > > > Is there a web page (or list of algorithms) for this step? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger > > Téléchargez cette version sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "zbmethod" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [zbmethod] Re: Definition of VH system.
Sorry for not reading more carefully. :) Dan acknowledges that the system breaks down at this point. His recommendation appears to be to learn more ZBF2L algs. Short of that, would it be useful in these difficult cases to first flip the edges and then solve the last pair using two-generator algs? Or am I better off just reverting to OLL? Or maybe don't use VH unless I'm willing to learn additional ZBF2L algs. On 11/29/05, Bob Burton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It says this right on the page: > > "After the "pair-up" stage, there are only 32 possible configurations > of the pair and the LL edge-orientation. These are broken down into 2 > groups of 16 cases, 1 group of connected pairs, and 1 group of > seperated pairs. So if you know just 32 little tricks, you can almost > always flip the LL edges to your advantage after the F2L. If you are > unlucky you will have a case for which your algorithm isn't a simple > pair up and insert, and in these cases it is very awkward to do > anything about it. That is where learning specialised algorithms has a > big advantage." > > Also, "almost always" is in bold print. ;) > > ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 1.2 million kids a year are victims of human trafficking. Stop slavery. http://us.click.yahoo.com/WpTY2A/izNLAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Advanced Team BLD
--- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > What!!! Where did you find this girl? I can't even get Lisa to learn > the 7 corner Orientations... I found her in Minnesota. ;) And the trick to getting her to learn seems to be taking her to a competition. She's almost halfway done learning COLL since then, and she's working on VHF2L. Getting her pink and light blue stickers for her cube doesn't hurt, either. ;) > > However, I'm not sure how you could explain the ZB alg very well. > > There are 12 sub-cases within each COLL case. I don't know how you > > would hope to distinguish between them verbally. > > Sorry to harp on about it, but I think my naming scheme for the ZBLL > case would be pretty useful. Using the "3 levels" concept > (orientation, COLL case, edge permutation) you could always call it > very easily. The codes for the edges are easy to learn, and are always > the same for each case (I mean you never get anything outside of the > set of 12) Just a thought, but what about identifying them as a PLL with a certain corner orientation? > > ZBF2L is very helpful, though. Especially when you can get OLL skips > > out of it. I think it's definitely something worth pursuing. > > > > you also get OLL skips with VHF2L, although I don't know if one is > better for it over the other, maybe Chris would calculate it for us :) > > Dan - team[zb] :) Actually, right now I use VHF2L and a few extra tricks, and I'm getting better at getting OLL skips by adjusting where the pair is before inserting after edge orienting. The odds without this are about 3.7%, but I think I've doubled it to 7.4%, and I'm working on another set of easy cases to get it up to 10.1%. The only real problem with this is that some of my PLL's are very slow. -Mike team [zb] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Definition of VH system.
--- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, David Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Sorry for not reading more carefully. :) > > Dan acknowledges that the system breaks down at this point. His > recommendation appears to be to learn more ZBF2L algs. > > Short of that, would it be useful in these difficult cases to first > flip the edges and then solve the last pair using two-generator algs? > Or am I better off just reverting to OLL? Or maybe don't use VH > unless I'm willing to learn additional ZBF2L algs. I've been using it for a couple of months now, and I can say that the system is fantastic. I really only know and use the VH system for edge orienting, but with a few added cases. I've gotten as low as a 17.98 average with it, and times in the 14's. The system works, I promise. :) That said, I think I may hold off on learning much more ZBF2L at the moment, and switch to learning more ZBLL. If my F2L average is 14 or 15, and my normal average is a little over 20, that means my LL is taking entirely too long. I think I may start with the rest of the correctly permuted corner cases for each orientation, starting with the L case (because I already know a few of those). -Mike Bennett Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Advanced Team BLD
--- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just a thought, but what about identifying them as a PLL with a > certain corner orientation? Ewww! I use block recognition for PLL. If I recognize the PLL of a non-all-oriented state, forget about it. I would need some sort of new system. I haven't tried Dan's system yet, though, because I don't use ZBLL yet. ;) > Actually, right now I use VHF2L and a few extra tricks, and I'm > getting better at getting OLL skips by adjusting where the pair is > before inserting after edge orienting. The odds without this are > about 3.7%, but I think I've doubled it to 7.4%, and I'm working on > another set of easy cases to get it up to 10.1%. The only real > problem with this is that some of my PLL's are very slow. So work on them! There are only 21 PLLs! I have only 4 that take me over 2.5 seconds now, and two of those are the damn N-perm. :( ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 1.2 million kids a year are victims of human trafficking. Stop slavery. http://us.click.yahoo.com/WpTY2A/izNLAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Definition of VH system.
--- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That said, I think I may hold off on learning much more ZBF2L at the > moment, and switch to learning more ZBLL. If my F2L average is 14 or > 15, and my normal average is a little over 20, that means my LL is > taking entirely too long. I think I may start with the rest of the > correctly permuted corner cases for each orientation, starting with > the L case (because I already know a few of those). 5-6 seconds for LL isn't bad. I am pretty sure mine isn't much faster than that. :) ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/u8TY5A/tzNLAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Definition of VH system.
--- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > That said, I think I may hold off on learning much more ZBF2L at the > > moment, and switch to learning more ZBLL. If my F2L average is 14 or > > 15, and my normal average is a little over 20, that means my LL is > > taking entirely too long. I think I may start with the rest of the > > correctly permuted corner cases for each orientation, starting with > > the L case (because I already know a few of those). > > 5-6 seconds for LL isn't bad. I am pretty sure mine isn't much faster > than that. :) > > ~ Bob It just hurts me to look up during a solve and see that I have a fantastic F2L and still be hampered by a slow LL to wind up with a 20+ solve. Besides that, I know that the LL is where most of the moves in a solve are saved, and that using VH+some corner control is helping to make up for not knowing full ZBF2L. -Mike team [zb] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Definition of VH system.
Ok. I've calculated some odds and come up with a new gameplan. 1/27 solves (~3.7%)of the time (or more, with a little corner orienting) you get an OLL skip and have a PLL for ZBLL. 26/27 solves you get a COLL case. Of those 26, 1/6 have corners correctly permuted. Learning the ZB cases for those gives a 16% chance for a 1 look. Add these together for just under 20% chance. Now factor in the 1/12 chance for the other 5/6 of the 26/27 that COLL still gives you. That's an additional 6.7%, for a grand total of about 26.5% chance of a 1 look LL, and at only the number of algs required for COLL, PLL, and the correct corner ZB cases, of which I think there are about 66. However, 7 of these you will already know from COLL, so 59 + 40 + 21 = 120 cases to learn, of which i know 65. 55 to go. (4 of those are PLL's... :P) -Mike team [zb] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Advanced Team BLD
Dont worry Chris, I know your situation exactly. I have an equal number of tasks on my list, and having to go to darned work all the time means I can't even get started on it! Thanks to this group there seems to be a growing interest in ZB, so I think one of the highest priority things to do on my website is get the ZBLL pages in some sort of order, and perhaps make it a little more user friendly. I'll also explain my edges system in a lot more detail! Recognising the case as a PLL + Corner Orientation is very hard I think, it's hard enough to recognise the PLL on the 4x4x4 when you have only one edge flipped, let alone if the corners are all over the place. Maybe some see it better than others, I know I wouldn't be able to recognise the PLL without a complete top face :) Dan :) > Hey Dan, > > Sorry I didn't do this sooner, but I will soon be adding your naming > scheme to my ZBLL pages. I think the block method is not enough to > recognize quickly, and I think your idea for the edges is really good. > > I've got a million things to do on my list for school and cubing, but > that is on my list. I don't think block recognition will work by > itself, but will also require your edge technique to go with it. > > Chris > team [zb] > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Definition of VH system.
Hi, > > > > Dan acknowledges that the system breaks down at this point. His > > recommendation appears to be to learn more ZBF2L algs. I've read the posts on VH with a lot of interest, I'm very happy that other people are considering it and hopefully finding improvements! VHF2L + COLL was meant to be a stepping stone towards the full ZB. With it, you would learn some indirect ZBF2L, and of course some ZBLL algs (the one's that are COLL's). So the fact that you would have to learn some ZBF2L algorithms to cover the cases which you don't use pair up and insert for only helps this process along :) > I've been using it for a couple of months now, and I can say that the > system is fantastic. I really only know and use the VH system for > edge orienting, but with a few added cases. I've gotten as low as a > 17.98 average with it, and times in the 14's. The system works, I > promise. :) I'm glad you are having success with it Mike! Dan :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Advanced Team BLD
There are, however, cases > that cannot be done using VH very easily (certain yucky connected > cases and such), but there are only a few of those. Do you break them > up and do VHF2L in those cases, too, Dan? > > ~ Bob I have to be honest, if it's one of the yucky cases then I would not bother using VHF2L - esp in a competition. In practice however, I would still solve these cases, but it's hard to say whether you gain any time by doing this. If you hadn't flipped all the edges using VHF2L, who's to say that you wouldn't have had a tough OLL and an N perm? And if you did flip the edges in a yucky case, you might end up with the 1 in 12 skip. Or of course it could go horribly wrong the other way. All if's and but's! Dan :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Advanced Team BLD
I can't say I blame you. I would do the same, especially in a competition. Have you learned all the ZBF2L for when the C/E pair is trapped in the F2L? This seems like the most logical first extension to the VH system. ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > There are, however, cases > > that cannot be done using VH very easily (certain yucky connected > > cases and such), but there are only a few of those. Do you break > them > > up and do VHF2L in those cases, too, Dan? > > > > ~ Bob > > > I have to be honest, if it's one of the yucky cases then I would not > bother using VHF2L - esp in a competition. In practice however, I > would still solve these cases, but it's hard to say whether you gain > any time by doing this. If you hadn't flipped all the edges using > VHF2L, who's to say that you wouldn't have had a tough OLL and an N > perm? And if you did flip the edges in a yucky case, you might end up > with the 1 in 12 skip. Or of course it could go horribly wrong the > other way. All if's and but's! > > Dan :) > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
