Re: [zfs-discuss] Another user looses his pool (10TB) in this case and 40 days work

2009-07-28 Thread Rennie Allen
> This is also (theoretically) why a drive purchased
> from Sun is more  
> that expensive then a drive purchased from your
> neighbourhood computer  
> shop:

It's more significant than that.  Drives aimed at the consumer market are at a 
competitive disadvantage if they do handle cache flush correctly (since the 
popular hardware blog of the day will show that the device is far slower than 
the competitors that throw away the sync requests).

 Sun (and presumably other manufacturers) takes
> the time and  
> effort to test things to make sure that when a drive
> says "I've synced  
> the data", it actually has synced the data. This
> testing is what  
> you're presumably paying for.

It wouldn't cost any more for commercial vendors to implement cache flush 
properly, it is just that they are penalized by the market for doing so.
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Another user looses his pool (10TB) in this case and 40 days work

2009-07-28 Thread Rennie Allen
> 
> Can *someone* please name a single drive+firmware or
> RAID
> controller+firmware that ignores FLUSH CACHE / FLUSH
> CACHE EXT
> commands? Or worse, responds "ok" when the flush
> hasn't occurred?

I think it would be a shorter list if one were to name the drives/controllers 
that actually implement a flush properly. 
 
> Everyone on this list seems to blame lying hardware
> for ignoring
> commands, but disks are relatively mature and I can't
> believe that
> major OEMs would qualify disks or other hardware that
> willingly ignore
> commands.

It seems you have too much faith in major OEM's of storage, considering that 
99.9% of the market is personal use, and for which a 2% throughput advantage 
over a competitor can make or break the profit margin on a device.  Ignoring 
cache requests is guaranteed to get the best drive performance benchmarks 
regardless of what the software is driving the device.  For example, it is 
virtually impossible to find a USB drive that honors cache sync (to do so would 
require that the device would stop completely until a fully synchronous USB 
transaction had made it to the device, the data had been written).  Can you 
imagine how long a USB drive would sit on store shelves if it actually did do a 
proper cache sync?  While USB is the extreme case; and it does get better the 
more expensive the drive, it is still far from a given that any particular 
device properly handles cache flushes.
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