Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Re: Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
Mario Goebbels wrote: Also, it would seem that Apple really can't push ZFS into Mac OS X until evacuation of data and removal of vdevs is supported for pools. Does hfs+ support this? I see no evidence that it does. HFS+ isn't a file system with integrated volume management. Any disks where no operating system resides on can be yanked out at will, not causing problems. Please explain. Data movement, if necessary, has to be done by hand though, but at least you can remove disks. It's the usual home user scenario, where a disk breaks but can't be replaced immediately (usually financial or time constraints). Considering that the typical home user pools will be JBODs and not RAID-Z, I also think that vdev removal is necessary in these scenarios. Single vdev zpools work very much like traditional file systems without volume managers, except that you have better resilience with ZFS. -- richard ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Re: Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
> > Also, it would seem that Apple really can't push ZFS into Mac OS X > > until evacuation of data and removal of vdevs is supported for pools. > > Does hfs+ support this? I see no evidence that it does. HFS+ isn't a file system with integrated volume management. Any disks where no operating system resides on can be yanked out at will, not causing problems. Data movement, if necessary, has to be done by hand though, but at least you can remove disks. It's the usual home user scenario, where a disk breaks but can't be replaced immediately (usually financial or time constraints). Considering that the typical home user pools will be JBODs and not RAID-Z, I also think that vdev removal is necessary in these scenarios. -mg signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Re: Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
George wrote: I'm curious about something. Wouldn't ZFS `send` and `recv` be a perfect fit for Apple Time Machine in Leopard if glued together by some scripts? In this scenario you could have an external volume and simply send snapshots to it and reciprocate as needed with recv. Also, it would seem that Apple really can't push ZFS into Mac OS X until evacuation of data and removal of vdevs is supported for pools. Does hfs+ support this? I see no evidence that it does. Once this is in place it would seem reasonable that Apple would more than want to push ZFS rw support into Leopard. This would then allow for very flexible and robust usage for desktop users as well in that folks will very often wish to manipulate their storage arrangement in terms of saying "woops, I didn't mean to put that volume here permanently, I need to remove it!" This would especially be true of firewire/usb drives for "backups" and all sorts of questions that would arise. A simple, `remove` would be perfect to cure these blues. More likely, they are trying to make sure it fits their integration time schedules. There is still a lot of development being done on ZFS. -- richard ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Re: Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
I'm curious about something. Wouldn't ZFS `send` and `recv` be a perfect fit for Apple Time Machine in Leopard if glued together by some scripts? In this scenario you could have an external volume and simply send snapshots to it and reciprocate as needed with recv. Also, it would seem that Apple really can't push ZFS into Mac OS X until evacuation of data and removal of vdevs is supported for pools. Once this is in place it would seem reasonable that Apple would more than want to push ZFS rw support into Leopard. This would then allow for very flexible and robust usage for desktop users as well in that folks will very often wish to manipulate their storage arrangement in terms of saying "woops, I didn't mean to put that volume here permanently, I need to remove it!" This would especially be true of firewire/usb drives for "backups" and all sorts of questions that would arise. A simple, `remove` would be perfect to cure these blues. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Re: Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On 13-Jun-07, at 4:09 PM, Frank Cusack wrote: On June 13, 2007 9:14:48 AM -0700 Rick Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From (http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml;? articleID=199903 525) ... In a follow-up interview today, Croll explained, "ZFS is not the default file system for Leopard. We are exploring it as a file system option for high-end storage systems with really large storage. As a result, we have included ZFS -- a read-only copy of ZFS -- in Leopard." [...] ouch! This really does disservice to zfs. Nonetheless: A big greeting to all the Apple engineers on this list. Ohayo! We look forward to seeing the fruits of your labours. --Toby -frank ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Re: Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
So it's been what, a day (2?) and no one has tried to import a pool on the Leopard beta? -frank ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Re: Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On June 13, 2007 9:14:48 AM -0700 Rick Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From (http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml;?articleID=199903 525) ... In a follow-up interview today, Croll explained, "ZFS is not the default file system for Leopard. We are exploring it as a file system option for high-end storage systems with really large storage. As a result, we have included ZFS -- a read-only copy of ZFS -- in Leopard." [...] ouch! This really does disservice to zfs. -frank ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Re: Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
So you can migrate all your ZFS volumes to HFS+ ;-) >>> Toby Thain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 6/13/2007 12:22 PM >>> On 13-Jun-07, at 1:14 PM, Rick Mann wrote: >> From (http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml;? >> articleID=199903525) > > ... Croll explained, "ZFS is not the default file system for > Leopard. We are exploring it as a file system option for high-end > storage systems with really large storage. As a result, we have > included ZFS -- a read-only copy of ZFS -- in Leopard." I don't get it. What possible use is "read only" ZFS? So that people can see if their FC array can be mounted on Leopard beta? I must be missing the point here. --Toby ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Re: Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
Toby Thain, et al, I am guessing here, but to just be able to access the FS data locally without the headaches of verifying FS consistency, write caches, etc. Mitchell Erblich Toby Thain wrote: > > On 13-Jun-07, at 1:14 PM, Rick Mann wrote: > > >> From (http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml;? > >> articleID=199903525) > > > > ... Croll explained, "ZFS is not the default file system for > > Leopard. We are exploring it as a file system option for high-end > > storage systems with really large storage. As a result, we have > > included ZFS -- a read-only copy of ZFS -- in Leopard." > > I don't get it. What possible use is "read only" ZFS? > > So that people can see if their FC array can be mounted on Leopard > beta? I must be missing the point here. > > --Toby > > ___ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
[zfs-discuss] Re: Re: Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
>From >(http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml;?articleID=199903525) --- [...] Seeking to clarify a statement made on Monday by Brian Croll, senior director of Mac OS X Product Marketing, to two InformationWeek reporters that Apple's new "Leopard" operating system would not include the ZFS file system, an Apple spokesperson indicated that ZFS would be available as a limited option, but not as the default file system. ZFS "is only available a read-only option from the command line," according to an Apple spokesperson. In a follow-up interview today, Croll explained, "ZFS is not the default file system for Leopard. We are exploring it as a file system option for high-end storage systems with really large storage. As a result, we have included ZFS -- a read-only copy of ZFS -- in Leopard." [...] --- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Re: Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
On 13-Jun-07, at 1:14 PM, Rick Mann wrote: From (http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml;? articleID=199903525) ... Croll explained, "ZFS is not the default file system for Leopard. We are exploring it as a file system option for high-end storage systems with really large storage. As a result, we have included ZFS -- a read-only copy of ZFS -- in Leopard." I don't get it. What possible use is "read only" ZFS? So that people can see if their FC array can be mounted on Leopard beta? I must be missing the point here. --Toby ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
[zfs-discuss] Re: Re: Mac OS X "Leopard" to use ZFS
>On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, Rick Mann wrote: >> ZFS Readonly implemntation is loaded! >Is that a copy-n-paste error, or is that typo in the actual output? It's a typo in the actual output. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
