Re: [Zim-wiki] Re-ordering the index / custom sorting
Dear all, Thanks for your contribution to this discussion. Based on the comments I made a short summary of the discussion and wrote down how the interface should work. Please check this page for the description: https://github.com/jaap-karssenberg/zim-wiki/wiki/Blueprint-custom-sorting-in-the-index Going forward I will use this wiki page to plan this feature. Regards, Jaap ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Re-ordering the index / custom sorting
Dear Murat, I have tried to write some comments in the lines of yours, hope it is aright and thanks for Jaap's considerations. On 18 February 2015 at 11:23, Güven, Ugur Murat murat.gue...@ts.fujitsu.com wrote: Hi Jaap, 1/ Do you only want custom ordering, or switch between custom and alphabetical sorting ? What I’d love to see is the possibility to enable / disable a personal index My current structure is: 004Projects 004-0010-ProjectA 001-Information-ProjectA 002-Tasks-ProjectA 003-Meetings-ProjectA M001-DATE-ProjectA M002-DATE-ProjectA M003-DATE-ProjectA 003-OngoingTopics-ProjectA 004-0020-ProjectB 004-0030-ProjectC … using the pre-fix numbers for sorting. So putting this together means that I would need the possibility to sort · according to creation date · setting the position manually 2/ If so, where do you click to switch between custom ordering and alphabetic ordering ? And how this switch affect sub-sections ? Basically I need to have the option per parent note to make child notes sorted against. So, right-clicking on the parent note should show a popup menu In above example I would sort manually: 004-0010-ProjectA 001-Information-ProjectA 002-Tasks-ProjectA 003-Meetings-ProjectA 003-OngoingTopics-ProjectA These should be sorted against creation date: 003-Meetings-ProjectA M001-DATE-ProjectA M002-DATE-ProjectA M003-DATE-ProjectA yes, that would be a need settings (selective), maybe it would be possible to keep this information in header of the parent page? 3/ When index has custom ordering, where do new pages show up - at the end, in the front, other position ? According to the selected option in parent note. There could be an exception though -- 5/ ... what did I not think of yet ... ? If camel case creation is switched on, the notes which are created automatically need to be placed as child notes and should be sorted alphabetically as standard. 4/ Should custom sorting depend on list of links in parent page ? (Either by default or as a plugin) That is a nice idea. On the one hand it could make it easier for the user to find the notes in the index if the index order follows the order in the note, but on the other hand, if the links are not in a list within a note, I don’t see a direct visual connection to the index order and to the order within the note. this kind of sorting is relevant for export of chapters defined on a single page (the same level). It is also useful for a further graphical interpretations and pages in UI and appreciated by people with strong spatial memory like me :-) -- 5/ ... what did I not think of yet ... ? I often use parent notes as ‘folders’ with little or no content. Such ‘special’ notes could have the option to have the sub-notes listed as links (basically your idea at 4/ with an addition) it could be maybe possible to define some additional attributes to the sub-links (a color and an importance), which would be stored in the sub-link (this is just an idea) Thank you and Regards, Murat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Re-ordering the index / custom sorting
Hi Jaap, 1/ Do you only want custom ordering, or switch between custom and alphabetical sorting ? What I’d love to see is the possibility to enable / disable a personal index My current structure is: 004Projects 004-0010-ProjectA 001-Information-ProjectA 002-Tasks-ProjectA 003-Meetings-ProjectA M001-DATE-ProjectA M002-DATE-ProjectA M003-DATE-ProjectA 003-OngoingTopics-ProjectA 004-0020-ProjectB 004-0030-ProjectC … using the pre-fix numbers for sorting. So putting this together means that I would need the possibility to sort · according to creation date · setting the position manually 2/ If so, where do you click to switch between custom ordering and alphabetic ordering ? And how this switch affect sub-sections ? Basically I need to have the option per parent note to make child notes sorted against. So, right-clicking on the parent note should show a popup menu In above example I would sort manually: 004-0010-ProjectA 001-Information-ProjectA 002-Tasks-ProjectA 003-Meetings-ProjectA 003-OngoingTopics-ProjectA These should be sorted against creation date: 003-Meetings-ProjectA M001-DATE-ProjectA M002-DATE-ProjectA M003-DATE-ProjectA 3/ When index has custom ordering, where do new pages show up - at the end, in the front, other position ? According to the selected option in parent note. There could be an exception though -- 5/ ... what did I not think of yet ... ? If camel case creation is switched on, the notes which are created automatically need to be placed as child notes and should be sorted alphabetically as standard. 4/ Should custom sorting depend on list of links in parent page ? (Either by default or as a plugin) That is a nice idea. On the one hand it could make it easier for the user to find the notes in the index if the index order follows the order in the note, but on the other hand, if the links are not in a list within a note, I don’t see a direct visual connection to the index order and to the order within the note. -- 5/ ... what did I not think of yet ... ? I often use parent notes as ‘folders’ with little or no content. Such ‘special’ notes could have the option to have the sub-notes listed as links (basically your idea at 4/ with an addition) Thank you and Regards, Murat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Re-ordering the index / custom sorting
Hi Jaap,
Thank you for checking with the community :)
Here goes my 2 cents about the index...
First, I'd like to have a global setting (Default Ordering) per notebook
which defines the sorting method (name, creation date, last modified date,
customs).
Whenever a new page/link to a page is created, its position should follow
that definition.
To change the sorting method, if I move a page (drag and drop) it would set
the sibling pages sorting flag:
(N) Name, (C) Creation, (M) Modification, (X) Manual
1.
Parent (N)
Child1 (N)
Child2 (N)
Child3 (N)
2. Drag and Drop Child2
Parent (N)
Child2 (X)
Child1 (X)
Child3 (X)
3. Created reference to Child4 somewhere
Parent (N)
Child4 (X)
Child2 (X)
Child1 (X)
Child3 (X)
Finally, if I want to rearrange/autosort a certain level, I would
right-click any page Sort which will sort as per the global definition.
Or, right-click Sorting... pick between the options {name, creation,
modification ,custom0}.
I am not sure whether it is best to pop up the sorting menu when
right-clicking on the Child page (which would sometimes cause reordering
non-existing pages) or right-clicking the parent page and have an option
like Subpages sorting.
Thinking forward, If I want an exclusive method of sorting my notebook, it
should be easy to implement a class for that - like Comparable and
Comparator in Java.
The Default Ordering should also display any additional implementations of
a custom ordering you've created.
(0 - my ordering for PJ, 1 - presentation sorting)
1/ Do you only want custom ordering, or switch between custom and
alphabetical sorting ?
Default ordering (name, creation, modification and manual) and a way to
implement custom sorting programatically.
2/ If so, where do you click to switch between custom ordering and
alphabetic ordering ? And how this switch affect sub-sections ?
Right click a subpage. The ordering you pick affect all the sibling pages
(page withing the same hierarchy level)
3/ When index has custom ordering, where do new pages show up - at the end,
in the front, other position ?
The only exception is if Defaul Ordering = Name and Page Ordering Flag = X,
on top/front.
If (Default Ordering = Name and Page Ordering Flag = N) or (DO = Creation
and POF = C) and so on, follow that ordering for new pages.
Regards,
Renan Esposte.
Em Wed Feb 18 2015 at 08:23:55, Güven, Ugur Murat
murat.gue...@ts.fujitsu.com escreveu:
Hi Jaap,
1/ Do you only want custom ordering, or switch between custom and
alphabetical sorting ?
What I’d love to see is the possibility to enable / disable a personal
index
My current structure is:
004Projects
004-0010-ProjectA
001-Information-ProjectA
002-Tasks-ProjectA
003-Meetings-ProjectA
M001-DATE-ProjectA
M002-DATE-ProjectA
M003-DATE-ProjectA
003-OngoingTopics-ProjectA
004-0020-ProjectB
004-0030-ProjectC
… using the pre-fix numbers for sorting.
So putting this together means that I would need the possibility to sort
· according to creation date
· setting the position manually
2/ If so, where do you click to switch between custom ordering and
alphabetic ordering ? And how this switch affect sub-sections ?
Basically I need to have the option per parent note to make child notes
sorted against. So, right-clicking on the parent note should show a popup
menu
In above example I would sort manually:
004-0010-ProjectA
001-Information-ProjectA
002-Tasks-ProjectA
003-Meetings-ProjectA
003-OngoingTopics-ProjectA
These should be sorted against creation date:
003-Meetings-ProjectA
M001-DATE-ProjectA
M002-DATE-ProjectA
M003-DATE-ProjectA
3/ When index has custom ordering, where do new pages show up - at the
end, in the front, other position ?
According to the selected option in parent note. There could be an
exception though --
5/ ... what did I not think of yet ... ?
If camel case creation is switched on, the notes which are created
automatically need to be placed as child notes and should be sorted
alphabetically as standard.
4/ Should custom sorting depend on list of links in parent page ? (Either
by default or as a plugin)
That is a nice idea. On the one hand it could make it easier for the user
to find the notes in the index if the index order follows the order in the
note, but on the other hand, if the
links are not in a list within a note, I don’t see a direct visual
connection to the index order and to the order within the note.
--
5/ ... what did I not think of yet ... ?
I often use parent notes as ‘folders’ with little or no content. Such
‘special’ notes could have the option to have the sub-notes listed as links
(basically your idea at 4/ with an
Re: [Zim-wiki] Re-ordering the index / custom sorting
Hi, @Davi Then I would hide the index and just use a flat notebook structure This is the idea of tagging notes to find the info you need ;) A more prominent search box with find-as-you-type and partial results in a popover Not that sophisticated, but that’s why I build the ‘Search tagged pages’ plugin @S.Mubashir Mr. Ugur Murat's method is a little laborious, needs foresight and such disciplined notebook looks super-human to me. Thanks, but I’m not super-human ☺ It is indeed a matter of how to find your information. These two are the extremes: You create your notes in a flat structure or you go with a total hierarchy · The flat structure doesn’t work at all without tagging. But here you are structuring again with your tags ;) · The total hierarchy only doesn’t work in my eyes, too as you will find yourself adding another parent and another parent as your information does not fit into existing. So my way is to mix both. Have a hierarchy and use tags. If an information does not fit to my structure and I don’t see it being a general topic with more information to come, then this information ends up into the inbox with some tags I find useful (just to find that information again ;) ) Regards, Murat From: Zim-wiki [mailto:zim-wiki-bounces+murat.gueven=ts.fujitsu@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Davi da Silva Böger Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:34 PM To: zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Subject: [Zim-wiki] Re-ordering the index / custom sorting Hi people, Personally, I would prefer instead that more emphasis would be given to search instead of an index structure, as it is with Web Wikis. A more prominent search box with find-as-you-type and partial results in a popover :). Then I would hide the index and just use a flat notebook structure. I tend to prefer linking and tags instead of hierarchies to set relationships among pages. Well, just my almost off-topic two cents, based on my personal experience. To the problem at hand tho: I think it would be a good compromise between customization and simplicity to allow drag'n'drop (with some keyboard equivalent) for reordering, but give context-menu actions to sort by some criteria (e.g. alphabetically, by creation date, etc.). Those actions are instant, though: they simply pass through the selected pages sorting everything. This way you avoid maintaining different modes, while keeping it relatively easy for people to go either sorted or custom. Best regards, Davi. Em quarta-feira, 18 de fevereiro de 2015, S. Mubashir sajid.mubas...@gmail.comjavascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sajid.mubas...@gmail.com'); escreveu: Dear Zim-Gurus, May I suggest a simple alternative, that doesn't involve embedding some special logic or identifier or ID etc? * Let the current alphabetical sorting remain. * For anyone who wants to re-order, as per their preference, a key-binding can be given. For example, in MS-Word, the key-sequence [Shift+Alt+Up] or [Shift+Alt+Down} can rearrange paragraphs. The OpenOffice/ LibreOffice Key-Binding is different and probably [Ctrl+Alt+Up/ Down]; I am not sure of the latter because I always change it to [Ctrl+Up or Ctrl+Down] on all PC/ laptop I use. I depend on this key-binding for its simplicity, power convenience. Mr. Ugur Murat's method is a little laborious, needs foresight and such disciplined notebook looks super-human to me. My special (earnest) request is that the key-binding (for page-promotion/ demotion) should also be applicable to paragraphs (promotion/ demotion) within the page, and if you do that, Zim will become an exceptional text-editor. For regular use one won't need the Word Processor, until printing the page becomes important. Best regards, S.Mubashir ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Re-ordering the index / custom sorting
1/ Do you only want custom ordering, or switch between custom and alphabetical sorting ? Perhaps both, or if not both, an option to sort child pages, optionally recursively. Strictly from a code point of view, it would probably be less complex if only custom ordering was implemented, with a command to apply sorting to child pages when desired. 2/ If so, where do you click to switch between custom ordering and alphabetic ordering ? And how this switch affect sub-sections ? If both orderings are available, I think each page should have a flag representing which mode it is in. This flag only affects the ordering of any direct child pages. (This means there will need to be some sort of root flag as well). A context menu would provide the option to change from custom to ordered, along with the ability to apply recursively. Creating a new child page automatically inherits the value of the flag of its parent page. 3/ When index has custom ordering, where do new pages show up - at the end, in the front, other position ? As close as possible to the current mouse location. If I use the context menu to create a new sub-page, then at the top of all child pages. If I create a new page, then as the next sibling page. 4/ Should custom sorting depend on list of links in parent page ? (Either by default or as a plugin) It could be an option, but I don't think it should be a hard dependency. I don't normally have links in my parent pages anyway. Some people may for some reason have links in a page in a different order than how they want to sort the child pages. Brian Allen Vanderburg II signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Re-ordering the index / custom sorting
my 2ct.. On Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:48 AM, Jaap Karssenberg jaap.karssenb...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, Next task on my list is refactoring the code of the index. Main reason is that I see a lot of bug reports relating to indexing, so hope a cleanup of the code will help to make things better. However, while at it, I do see an opportunity to implement functions to allow re-ordering the index. So it would not have to be alphabetically, but can have a custom ordering. My question to you is: how should the user-interface work when you can re-order the index. For example: 1/ Do you only want custom ordering, or switch between custom and alphabetical sorting ? Definately both 2/ If so, where do you click to switch between custom ordering and alphabetic ordering ? And how this switch affect sub-sections ? Perhaps have alphabetic ordering by default, but let the user change order of folders using drag-drop. As soon as the user does this once, Zim should remember that ordering is custom. To undo this, the context menu could be use (right click on the folder where you want to change order - this should imho not include sub-folders, at least, not by default). Only problem is how to deal with top level if you have more than one folder. 3/ When index has custom ordering, where do new pages show up - at the end, in the front, other position ? By default at end, but perhaps an option to set the position in the menu to create the page. 4/ Should custom sorting depend on list of links in parent page ? (Either by default or as a plugin) That would be a nice touch.. not as default but as a plugin 5/ ... what did I not think of yet ... ? So let me know your input - bonus points for screenshots and mockups :) Regards, Jaap ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Re-ordering the index / custom sorting
Hello :) Happy to help. Zim is so useful, it changed my life. My hairis grew back. 1/ Do you only want custom ordering, or switch between custom and alphabetical sorting ? My email web interface use a custom ordering for folders and I like it. However, sometimes I mess with the order and it's easier to reset and start over. So I guess that custom with a reset function would be sufficient for me. On the other hand, one can think of situations in which it would be nice to spot a specific page quickly by using alphabetical sorting. So the switch would be useful. 2/ If so, where do you click to switch between custom ordering and alphabetic ordering ? And how this switch affect sub-sections ? Maybe one could think about selecting a range of pages we want to sort (or reset the ordering like I suggest in 1/). 3/ When index has custom ordering, where do new pages show up - at the end, in the front, other position ? At the top of other pages I would say. I personaly tend to look from top to bottom when I sort things. 4/ Should custom sorting depend on list of links in parent page ? (Either by default or as a plugin) I can't think about an usage of this. What do you have in mind ? -- Laurent Hofer ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
