Re: [ZION] "Social" Mormons (was: Liberal dems unveil...)
Again, I say, we should follow the commandments of the prophets, and they have told us to get involved in politics. I don't see that that implies necessarily that we'll get involved at the expense of the Gospel. Quite the opposite, since we're doing what we're told to do. It's just like the Word of Wisdom -- some people take it to extremes, trying to convert others to, say, vegetarianism on the supposed basis of the WoW. Maybe I should repost that 1P statement, although like all 1P statements, it's in the Ensign for all to read. Jim Cobabe wrote: > If Satan can't intimidate or bully us with physical trials, he'll often > try to fool us with substitute issues and programs. He would like us to > invest our time, talents, and energy in causes that are not the cause of > Zion, in the hope they may ultimately replace our commitment to the > gospel. Often these other concerns are valid and worthwhile. That is > irrelevant. The deception comes in giving these concerns a higher > priority in our lives than our gospel covenants and thus to prove > unfaithful to our first love, who is Christ. Those who are fooled in > this way usually feel the Church is not doing enough in the area of > their pet concerns. They may become disenchanted with the program of the > Church and begin to follow "alternate voices." These > members do not lack zeal; indeed, they are often strong enough to endure > tremendous trials. But Satan has diverted their zeal to the defense of > other causes instead of Zion, and they don't perceive that their > shifting loyalty is really unfaithfulness. Those so deceived do not > generally reject Christ; they just decide to interpret his will > differently or to serve him in different ways or according to new > standards and values, and their original commitments take a backseat to > their new agenda. In essence, they change their spiritual compass > headings. But the truth is that they couldn't be trusted to hold their > original course and keep their original commitments. They didn't endure. > (Stephen E. Robinson, Following Christ.) > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
At 09:23 PM 11/9/2002, Marc wrote: in my opinion). Melchin is Progressive Conservative, which is the dynasty here, and has been since 1970 or so. Now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. How can one claim to be a "progressive" (which has socialist roots) and conservative (which ostensibly should be anti-socialist) at the same time? -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today." --Steven W. Mosher / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Democans and Republicrats
The Democrat asked his Republican friend, "Why are you a Republican?" He replied, "I am a Republican because my father was a Republican." The Democrat said, "That's no reason. If you want to be a Republican because you like President Eisenhower, because you think Senator Goldwater is a wonderful senator, or because you believe in the principles of the Republican party, all right, but simply to be a Republican because your father is a Republican is no reason at all. Why, what if your father had been an idiot?" The man said, "In that case, I guess I would have been a Democrat." (Dr. Daniel H. Ludlow, November 12, 1963, BYU Speeches of the Year, 1963 8.) / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] "Social" Mormons (was: Liberal dems unveil...)
Sounds like an interesting book. I'll get it. I thought a social Mormon was one who never went to church, used coffee and tea but was involved in cultural events. Stacy. At 07:23 AM 11/10/2002 +, you wrote: If Satan can't intimidate or bully us with physical trials, he'll often try to fool us with substitute issues and programs. He would like us to invest our time, talents, and energy in causes that are not the cause of Zion, in the hope they may ultimately replace our commitment to the gospel. Often these other concerns are valid and worthwhile. That is irrelevant. The deception comes in giving these concerns a higher priority in our lives than our gospel covenants and thus to prove unfaithful to our first love, who is Christ. Those who are fooled in this way usually feel the Church is not doing enough in the area of their pet concerns. They may become disenchanted with the program of the Church and begin to follow "alternate voices." These members do not lack zeal; indeed, they are often strong enough to endure tremendous trials. But Satan has diverted their zeal to the defense of other causes instead of Zion, and they don't perceive that their shifting loyalty is really unfaithfulness. Those so deceived do not generally reject Christ; they just decide to interpret his will differently or to serve him in different ways or according to new standards and values, and their original commitments take a backseat to their new agenda. In essence, they change their spiritual compass headings. But the truth is that they couldn't be trusted to hold their original course and keep their original commitments. They didn't endure. (Stephen E. Robinson, Following Christ.) / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] New stake in France
Any with an interest in the Church in France will be happy to hear that the old Carcassonne District is now the Toulouse France Stake, Europe's latest. The Toulouse France Stake, which includes the Carcassonne, Montpellier, Nimes, Perpignan, Toulouse Capitole and Toulouse Concorde wards and the Albi, Beziers, Montauban, Rodez and Tarbes branches, has been created by Elder Wayne S. Peterson of the Seventy. TOULOUSE FRANCE STAKE: (Sept. 22, 2002) Created from the Carassonne France District. President Jean-Paul E. Guerinot, 56, sales representative for IBMFrance; wife, Marie-Jose Camille Renee Arnaud Guerinot. Counsellors Jose Serrano-Ortega, 47, chef; wife, Antonietta Milone Serrano-Ortega. Jean-Paul Perez, 50, pastry chef; wife, Daniele Charlotte Marie Therese Joly Perez. Only in France would two chefs be part of a stake presidency! -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based Populist group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the Conservatives. Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is "Toryism," and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that the one single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll tax. If I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called "Intolerable Acts"? Steven Montgomery wrote: > At 09:23 PM 11/9/2002, Marc wrote: > >in my opinion). Melchin is Progressive Conservative, which is the dynasty > >here, > >and has been since 1970 or so. > > Now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. How can one claim to be a > "progressive" (which has socialist roots) and conservative (which > ostensibly should be anti-socialist) at the same time? > > -- > Steven Montgomery > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of > selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American > politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today." > --Steven W. Mosher > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
At 10:56 AM 11/10/2002, you wrote: It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based Populist group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the Conservatives. Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is "Toryism," and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that the one single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll tax. If I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called "Intolerable Acts"? Not that I'm aware of. The intolerable or coercive acts consisted of: Quartering Act: Established March 24, 1765 This bill required that Colonial Authorities to furnish barracks and supplies to British troops. In 1766, it was expanded to public houses and unoccupied buildings, and was updated again June 2, 1774, to include occupied buildings. Boston Port Bill: Effective June 1, 1774: This bill closed the port of Boston to all colonists until, the damages from the Boston Tea Party were paid for. Administration of Justice Act: Effective May 20, 1774 This bill stated that British Officials could not be tried in provincial courts for capital crimes. They would be extradited back to Britain and tried there. This effectively gave the British free reign to do whatever they wished, because no justice would be served while they were still in the colonies. Massachusetts Government Act: Effective May 20, 1774 This bill effectively annulled the charter of the colonies, giving the British Governor complete control of the town meetings, and taking control out of the hands of the colonialists. Quebec Act: Established May 20, 1774 This bill extended the Canadian borders to cut off The western colonies of Conn. Mass. and Va. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today." --Steven W. Mosher / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] War against all of Islam
Stacy wrote back: >Why doesn't he count? He claims as a Muslim he didn't hate Jews either, >only the way modern Israel came into being. I'll name another one who >claims to have loved all people. He even married a Christian woman while >he was Muslim, namely my sister. He is from Turkey. His name is Tahir >Sozutek. Need other examples? Ok. Marc was right. Your pin popped my universal balloon but I think you get my drift. My observations are that Muslims generally don't like the Jews. I suppose the reverse is probably true too. I don't know. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] War against all of Islam
In addition, there are Christian Arabs who feel the same way about the modern Jewish state. I can't name the author right now, but perhaps you can find it on the internet. Read a book entitled BLOOD BROTHERS and then tell me how you feel about the issue. I played hookey today but for a good reason. Last night a friend called me in dire stress. She talked to me the greater part of the night and also the night before. Under the circumstances I felt too sleepy to go to church at the usual time. But I'm going to a fireside tonight and then to church next week and probably the temple at some point after I get my recommend renewed (probably a formality at this point). Stacy. At 12:07 AM 11/10/2002 -0600, you wrote: Stacy wrote back: >Why doesn't he count? He claims as a Muslim he didn't hate Jews either, >only the way modern Israel came into being. I'll name another one who >claims to have loved all people. He even married a Christian woman while >he was Muslim, namely my sister. He is from Turkey. His name is Tahir >Sozutek. Need other examples? Ok. Marc was right. Your pin popped my universal balloon but I think you get my drift. My observations are that Muslims generally don't like the Jews. I suppose the reverse is probably true too. I don't know. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
At 12:26 PM 11/10/02, Steven Montgomery wrote: At 10:56 AM 11/10/2002, you wrote: It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based Populist group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the Conservatives. Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is "Toryism," and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that the one single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll tax. If I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called "Intolerable Acts"? Not that I'm aware of. The intolerable or coercive acts consisted of: Spam Street Mimes Blow-In Cards --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
24th Amendment The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Hmm, I seem to recall from my 10th grade civics class that there was a stamp tax and a poll tax. The Quebec Act was only "intolerable" because it put a quick end to the fantasy that the rights of the Atlantic colonies extended forever westwards. Steven Montgomery wrote: > At 10:56 AM 11/10/2002, you wrote: > >It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the > >Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based > >Populist > >group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the > >Conservatives. > > > >Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is > >"Toryism," > >and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that > >the one > >single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll > >tax. If > >I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called > >"Intolerable Acts"? > > Not that I'm aware of. The intolerable or coercive acts consisted of: > > Quartering Act: Established March 24, 1765 > This bill required that Colonial Authorities to furnish barracks and > supplies to British troops. In 1766, it was expanded to public houses and > unoccupied buildings, and was updated again June 2, 1774, to include > occupied buildings. > > Boston Port Bill: Effective June 1, 1774: > This bill closed the port of Boston to all colonists until, the damages > from the Boston Tea Party were paid for. > > Administration of Justice Act: Effective May 20, 1774 > This bill stated that British Officials could not be tried in provincial > courts for capital crimes. They would be extradited back to Britain and > tried there. This effectively gave the British free reign to do whatever > they wished, because no justice would be served while they were still in > the colonies. > > Massachusetts Government Act: Effective May 20, 1774 > This bill effectively annulled the charter of the colonies, giving the > British Governor complete control of the town meetings, and taking control > out of the hands of the colonialists. > > Quebec Act: Established May 20, 1774 This bill extended the Canadian > borders to cut off The western colonies of Conn. Mass. and Va. > > -- > Steven Montgomery > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of > selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American > politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today." > --Steven W. Mosher > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
[ZION] war against all Islam
Just as with the Bible, it depends on what verses one is reading in the Quran. While some read into the Quran that the Jews are infidels, we also read in it that the Jews are brothers/cousins and should be cared for and lifted up by Islam. I do happen to know some Muslims that are good friends of the Jews (and vice versa), because they have moderated their view of their own holy writings, understanding them as a whole and not reading violence into them. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe No. I would say that person wasn't a true Muslim. Are not the Jews infidels? Paul O Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Governing the least
I have my moments up and down. However, as the 2nd counselor in the stake presidency reminded us in our weekly stake presidency meeting this morning (i'm stake clerk), Moroni 7 tells us we need to develop faith and hope. As we develop both, then it helps put worldly things into proper perspective: we aren't overwhelmed by temporal and temporary events. Instead, we constantly remind ourselves of the world to come, and how it fills us with joy - even while we are sitting on this telestial rock floating in the vastness of space. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Paul: Gary, I'm glad you cope so well on this earth. I want it to be as easy as possible and I want the least amount of trials too but that doesn't seem to be my lot. If life as a god is not as happy as I expect it should be than maybe I don't want to be a god. I'm just here because Heavenly Father expected it and I agreed to come here to grow. But this earth is a rotten place for me and if God judges me or takes away my opportunity for exaltation because that is how I feel and react or don't do all I could have done like refuse a calling or something else-- SO BE IT!!! Paul O ~the servant? Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] "Social" Mormons (was: Liberal dems unveil...)
After much pondering, Stephen Beecroft favored us with: Social Mormon, indeed. Note that it's not hard for him to say he's liberal among Mormons; rather, it's hard for him to acknowledge he's Mormon among liberals. In my personal experience, I find this fairly typical for those American Latter-day Saints who consider themselves politically "liberal". He obviously doesn't remember this remark: "A liberal in the Church is merely one who does not have a testimony." --President Harold B. Lee / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] "Social" Mormons (was: Liberal dems unveil...)
Actually that quote was from "Our Attorney Ernie," Ernest Wilkinson. Pres. Lee referred to in passing. In any case, it's part of the demonization that the word has undergone south of the border. "John W. Redelfs" wrote: > After much pondering, Stephen Beecroft favored us with: > >Social Mormon, indeed. Note that it's not hard for him to say he's > >liberal among Mormons; rather, it's hard for him to acknowledge he's > >Mormon among liberals. In my personal experience, I find this fairly > >typical for those American Latter-day Saints who consider themselves > >politically "liberal". > > He obviously doesn't remember this remark: > > "A liberal in the Church is merely one who does not have > a testimony." --President Harold B. Lee > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
I understand that. I was talking about the *British* imposing a poll tax on the colonies. I admit I'm only going from memory -- I just thought that was one of the intolerable acts. In any case, that Thatcher did this puts her in clear violation of the US constitutional principles she claims to have admired so much, and that's my actual point. Jim Cobabe wrote: > 24th Amendment > > The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or > other election for President or Vice President, for electors for > President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in > Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any > State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax. > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Japan
After much pondering, Gary Smith favored us with: We had gone through 5 years of war, with our allies having gone through more. Japan was enslaving the peoples of China and Korea, using the women for all kinds of unspeakable things. Japan tortured our American soldiers they captured. 20 million Russian allies died because of Hitler. Hitler had slaughtered 6 million Jews. Millions of soldiers had died on all fronts. We wanted the war to end. I mean, Germany had surrendered, and Japan insisted on continuing the fight they had started. By some estimates as many as 75 million Chinese died during Mao's cultural revolution. It is hard for me to imagine that China under Japanese rule would have been any more horrendous and probably less so. This is one of my reasons for believing the USA should be neutral in these foreign wars and keep our troops home in case we should ever need them. Whenever we meddle in the internal affairs of other nations, we never know what the outcome would have been if we had not become involved. Why save the people of nation X from nation Y if the government of nation X is just a totalitarian dictatorship anyway? It isn't that the USA should not enforce a peace in the world, it cannot. There are going to be wars and atrocities throughout the world until the Lord comes in the clouds of heaven. And when we prop up an unelected, totalitarian dictatorship, to what extent to we become guilty of the atrocities committed by the dictatorship? One of the things that I learned from watching Wagner's Niebelungenlied a number of years ago is that it is the game of the nations of Europe to gain hegemony over their enemies by entering into treaties. By the making of treaties, wicked men such as Napoleon and Hitler have sought to conquer. It is not of God. And undoubtedly this is why we here in the USA wanted independence. We fought a War of Independence. Independence from whom. Great Britain only? No, we sought to be independent among all the nations of the earth. We wanted to be free to create our own little paradise, or not, right here in the Americas. That is what the Monroe Doctrine was all about. Why did the Father of our Country, George Washington warn us against "entangling alliances?" He knew that if we became involved in such alliances we would be a nation of near constant war, just as the rest of the nations are. Some time before the Second Coming, Zion will reign here upon the American continent. And it will be independent of every creature under heaven. The righteous will flow unto Zion, and the wicked will avoid us in fear. Does anyone suppose that in that day Zion will be involved in these entangling alliances? The Great Jehovah is going to create a lasting peace on this earth. He is going to champion the downtrodden, and lift up the weak things of the earth. But the United States cannot do it. And it ought not to try. Because if we wage war to right all wrongs, we will end up committing greater wrongs than we have sought to right. I just wish the USA would bring its military home, maintain embassies in those nations that truly want us there, and let the rest of the world agitate itself to pieces if they refuse to repent and serve the Lord. In that way, the USA could be part of the Zion that will await the coming of the Lord. We can best serve the other nations of the earth by setting a good example of peace and freedom, and by continuing to serve as a haven or sanctuary for those around the world that have been dispossessed by war and tyranny. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "A liberal in the Church is merely one who does not have a testimony." --President Harold B. Lee === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Hmm, I seem to recall from my 10th grade civics class that there was a stamp tax and a poll tax. The Quebec Act was only "intolerable" because it put a quick end to the fantasy that the rights of the Atlantic colonies extended forever westwards. Subsequent history has shown that it was not a fantasy. Might makes right. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is "Toryism," and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that the one single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll tax. If I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called "Intolerable Acts"? I don't think so, but I may be wrong. The Stamp Act is what most enraged the American colonials. The could not transact any business without buy a stamp to make their paperwork official. Without a stamp, no contract was binding, and the stamps were expensive. Other outrages that incited the Yankees had to do with tariffs and duties. The colonials were used to free trade, and were willing to resort to smuggling to gain it. Tariffs and duties frustrated what they considered the right to trade. It was on this account that we had our famous Boston Tea Party, one of the most wonderful things to ever happen in the history of mankind, in my opinion. Another was "the shot heard 'round the world" fired at Lexington and Concord. I wish we could do it again. It would have been wonderful to have lived in that day when freedom was a flame upon every lip, or at least every lip that mattered. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "A liberal in the Church is merely one who does not have a testimony." --President Harold B. Lee === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Japan
I just read the trip reports, on another list, of Lou Midgely and Eldon Watson and their spouses, who both took lengthy trips to China, from Beijing down to Chongqing (what we used to call, in English, Chungking), and over to Shanghai. Shanghai is a real Manhattan these days -- it looks like something out of a SF movie with its very imaginative skyscrapers all over the place. The Pearl River Delta region, from Guangdong (formerly Canton) to Hong Kong and Macau constitutes an area of 30 million people who are integrating an export-oriented high-tech economy. Villages spring up overnight from 100 people to 80 000 people (well, not overnight, but in the course of a year, in the case of a suburb of Shenzhen). It's an exciting area to be watching these days. Does Topica accept attachments? If so, I'll ask Eldon for permission to show two of his pictures from Shanghai. "John W. Redelfs" wrote: > After much pondering, Gary Smith favored us with: > >We had gone through 5 years of war, with our allies having gone through > >more. Japan was enslaving the peoples of China and Korea, using the women > >for all kinds of unspeakable things. Japan tortured our American soldiers > >they captured. 20 million Russian allies died because of Hitler. Hitler > >had slaughtered 6 million Jews. Millions of soldiers had died on all > >fronts. We wanted the war to end. I mean, Germany had surrendered, and > >Japan insisted on continuing the fight they had started. > > By some estimates as many as 75 million Chinese died during Mao's cultural > revolution. It is hard for me to imagine that China under Japanese rule > would have been any more horrendous and probably less so. This is one of > my reasons for believing the USA should be neutral in these foreign wars > and keep our troops home in case we should ever need them. Whenever we > meddle in the internal affairs of other nations, we never know what the > outcome would have been if we had not become involved. Why save the people > of nation X from nation Y if the government of nation X is just a > totalitarian dictatorship anyway? > > It isn't that the USA should not enforce a peace in the world, it > cannot. There are going to be wars and atrocities throughout the world > until the Lord comes in the clouds of heaven. > And when we prop up an unelected, totalitarian dictatorship, to what extent > to we become guilty of the atrocities committed by the dictatorship? > > One of the things that I learned from watching Wagner's Niebelungenlied a > number of years ago is that it is the game of the nations of Europe to gain > hegemony over their enemies by entering into treaties. By the making of > treaties, wicked men such as Napoleon and Hitler have sought to > conquer. It is not of God. And undoubtedly this is why we here in the USA > wanted independence. We fought a War of Independence. Independence from > whom. Great Britain only? No, we sought to be independent among all the > nations of the earth. We wanted to be free to create our own little > paradise, or not, right here in the Americas. That is what the Monroe > Doctrine was all about. > > Why did the Father of our Country, George Washington warn us against > "entangling alliances?" He knew that if we became involved in such > alliances we would be a nation of near constant war, just as the rest of > the nations are. > > Some time before the Second Coming, Zion will reign here upon the American > continent. And it will be independent of every creature under heaven. The > righteous will flow unto Zion, and the wicked will avoid us in fear. Does > anyone suppose that in that day Zion will be involved in these entangling > alliances? > > The Great Jehovah is going to create a lasting peace on this earth. He is > going to champion the downtrodden, and lift up the weak things of the > earth. But the United States cannot do it. And it ought not to > try. Because if we wage war to right all wrongs, we will end up committing > greater wrongs than we have sought to right. > > I just wish the USA would bring its military home, maintain embassies in > those nations that truly want us there, and let the rest of the world > agitate itself to pieces if they refuse to repent and serve the Lord. In > that way, the USA could be part of the Zion that will await the coming of > the Lord. We can best serve the other nations of the earth by setting a > good example of peace and freedom, and by continuing to serve as a haven or > sanctuary for those around the world that have been dispossessed by war and > tyranny. > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > === > "A liberal in the Church is merely one who does not have > a testimony." --President Harold B. Lee > === > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > / > /// ZION LIST
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
I was going from memory, as I implied, so will do some more research into this. It could be that it was something from the English Revolution (the so-called Glorious Revolution of the late 17th century). "John W. Redelfs" wrote: > After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: > >Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is > >"Toryism," > >and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that > >the one > >single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll > >tax. If > >I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called > >"Intolerable Acts"? > > I don't think so, but I may be wrong. The Stamp Act is what most enraged > the American colonials. The could not transact any business without buy a > stamp to make their paperwork official. Without a stamp, no contract was > binding, and the stamps were expensive. Other outrages that incited the > Yankees had to do with tariffs and duties. The colonials were used to free > trade, and were willing to resort to smuggling to gain it. Tariffs and > duties frustrated what they considered the right to trade. It was on this > account that we had our famous Boston Tea Party, one of the most wonderful > things to ever happen in the history of mankind, in my opinion. Another > was "the shot heard 'round the world" fired at Lexington and Concord. I > wish we could do it again. It would have been wonderful to have lived in > that day when freedom was a flame upon every lip, or at least every lip > that mattered. > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > === > "A liberal in the Church is merely one who does not have > a testimony." --President Harold B. Lee > === > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
Too true, but there really were overlapping and conflicting claims, even amongst
the 13 colonies, let alone the rest of British North America (remember that there
weren't just 13 colonies -- it's just that you learn about those specifically
because they're later what became the USA). But I seem to remember border
disputes between New York, Massachusetts, Maine, Maryland, Virginia, etc. And the
Oregon Territory was a real mess of conflicting treaties and uncertainties.
Take Maine as an example. The reason it juts way up into Canada is that the
treaty that set its boundaries has as a key element a measurement of what's the
highest point in a certain area. Later surveys, after the border was fixed,
showed that the border should have been way to the south (and I mean like about
100 kms), but you can't unscramble omelets. That's what made the border run right
through the centre of some towns. There's one on the Quebec-Vermont border, iirc,
where there's a pool hall/tavern right on the border, and they've painted a
yellow line through the pub to show the border. It runs right across the pool
table! ("8 ball in the American SW pocket...")
"John W. Redelfs" wrote:
> After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with:
> >Hmm, I seem to recall from my 10th grade civics class that there was a
> >stamp tax
> >and a poll tax. The Quebec Act was only "intolerable" because it put a
> >quick end
> >to the fantasy that the rights of the Atlantic colonies extended forever
> >westwards.
>
> Subsequent history has shown that it was not a fantasy. Might makes
> right. --JWR
>
> /
> /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
> /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
> /
>
--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland
Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick
himself up and continue on Winston Churchill
Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.
/
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
/
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RE: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...
There are many who profess to be religious and speak of themselves as
Christians, and, according to one such, "as accepting the scriptures
only as sources of inspiration and moral truth," and then ask in their
smugness: "Do the revelations of God give us a handrail to the kingdom
of God, as the Lord's messenger told Lehi, or merely a compass?"
Unfortunately, some are among us who claim to be Church members but are
somewhat like the scoffers in Lehi's visionstanding aloof and seemingly
inclined to hold in derision the faithful who choose to accept Church
authorities as God's special witnesses of the gospel and His agents in
directing the affairs of the Church.
There are those in the Church who speak of themselves as liberals who,
as one of our former presidents has said, "read by the lamp of their own
conceit." (Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine [Deseret Book Co., 1939], p.
373.) One time I asked one of our Church educational leaders how he
would define a liberal in the Church. He answered in one sentence: "A
liberal in the Church is merely one who does not have a ."
The late Dr. John A. Widtsoe of the Council of the Twelve, an eminent
educator, make a statement relative to this word liberal as it applied
to those in the Church. This is what he said:
The self-called liberal [in the Church] is usually one who has broken
with the fundamental principles or guiding philosophy of the group to
which he belongs. . . . He claims membership in an organization but does
not believe in its basic concepts; and sets out to reform it by changing
its foundations. . . .
It is folly to speak of a liberal religion, if that religion claims that
it rests upon unchanging truth.
And then Dr. Widtsoe concludes his statement with this:
It is well to beware of people who go about proclaiming that they are or
their churches are liberal. The probabilities are that the structure of
their faith is built on sand and will not withstand the storms of truth.
("Evidences and Reconciliations," Improvement Era 44:609.)
(Harold B. Lee, Stand Ye in Holy Places [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book
Co., 1974], 351.)
/
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RE: [ZION] New stake in France
Marc Schindler: Only in France would two chefs be part of a stake presidency! ___ And what a fine presidency it must be! Wonderful news for the saints in the Toulouse area. Have you heard anything more about land for a temple in the area of Paris? Larry Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Answer to life
It's that flying dozer you really need to watch out for. And bring a towel. [grin] Larry Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Marc Schindler: > Precise-a-mundo, ol' fish. > Gary Smith wrote: >> Ahh, that's true. But what is the question >>> It's kind of like saying that the answer to life, the universe and everything is 42. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Flying Lessons (was Taliban in Pakistan)
Marc Schindler: Very good! Another week in Moose Jaw for our boy genius :-) Larry Jackson: I think he'll enjoy his fortnight with the Moose Javians. Marc: My cousin's husband ... is tired of rotary wing and wants to switch to fixed wing. Larry: I work for a place that modifies military aircraft. We call the helicopter folks our ceiling fan division. Marc: We put the base there because there's nothing to hit that's higher than a grain elevator) Larry: Except for that water tower five miles out on final approach. (Is Spruce Grove near Cold Lake?) Larry Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Rulon Gardner
Rulon Gardner is back: http://www.austin360.com/statesman/editions/friday/sports_6.html and http://www.austin360.com/statesman/editions/today/sports_14.html -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today." --Steven W. Mosher / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Removing Christianity from US history
http://www.abbottloop.org/alconweb/pol_news/mythafa.htm During the French and Indian War, the 23-year-old Washington was fighting with the British against the French who were allied with the Indians. On July 9, 1755, in the Battle of the Monongahela, the British regiments were ambushed by the French and Indians. Of the 86 British and Virginia officers, only Washington was not shot off his horse. After retreating to Maryland, Washington wrote his mother. "After the battle was over I took off my jacket and I had four bullet holes through my jacket, but not a single bullet had touched me. I had several horses shot out from under me, but I was not hurt in any way. God's hand was on me. God protected me and kept me through the battle." In 1770, Washington traveled back to the region and an old Indian chief, having heard Washington was back, traveled to meet him. The chief told Washington, "You don't know me, but 15 years ago you and I were in these same woods. I commanded the Indians you were fighting that day. We saw you riding through the woods and knew you were a leader. If we could kill you we knew your troops would scatter, so I instructed my braves to fire at you. I personally fired at you 17 times. When I saw that none of our bullets had any effect on you, I told my braves to stop shooting. I have traveled all this way to meet the man God would not let die in battle." This spiritual account, and many others like it, used to be in our history textbooks. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Removing Christianity from US history
I want to see more of this kind of stuff. Where can I find more? Stacy. At 06:15 AM 11/11/2002 +, you wrote: http://www.abbottloop.org/alconweb/pol_news/mythafa.htm During the French and Indian War, the 23-year-old Washington was fighting with the British against the French who were allied with the Indians. On July 9, 1755, in the Battle of the Monongahela, the British regiments were ambushed by the French and Indians. Of the 86 British and Virginia officers, only Washington was not shot off his horse. After retreating to Maryland, Washington wrote his mother. "After the battle was over I took off my jacket and I had four bullet holes through my jacket, but not a single bullet had touched me. I had several horses shot out from under me, but I was not hurt in any way. God's hand was on me. God protected me and kept me through the battle." In 1770, Washington traveled back to the region and an old Indian chief, having heard Washington was back, traveled to meet him. The chief told Washington, "You don't know me, but 15 years ago you and I were in these same woods. I commanded the Indians you were fighting that day. We saw you riding through the woods and knew you were a leader. If we could kill you we knew your troops would scatter, so I instructed my braves to fire at you. I personally fired at you 17 times. When I saw that none of our bullets had any effect on you, I told my braves to stop shooting. I have traveled all this way to meet the man God would not let die in battle." This spiritual account, and many others like it, used to be in our history textbooks. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
