Re: [ZION] Are any of you having problems?
I'm not losing my touch. I've been able to read braille just fine. Lol. Stacy. At 05:45 PM 12/08/2002 -0800, you wrote: There hasn't been any traffic for the past two days. We're losing our touch... Harold // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Are any of you having problems?
I was going to do you one better: "Canada invades Alaska with black helicopters that were hiding in the interior of British Columbia, confiscates all handguns and assault rifles, makes all doctors employees of the state, feeds Jonah Greenberg to the caribou, and then gives the state to Iraq for a Christmas present." But it wouldn't fit in the subject line. Chet wrote: > I'd been just about to post a message with the Subject header of "Gun > Control" just to get this list active again. > > John W. Redelfs wrote: > > I haven't received any mail from the list in two days. I didn't notice > > this until just now because other family members have been taking their > > turns at the computer. The Topica people say there is no problem at > > their > > end. Is it possible that AT&T Worldnet is screening out my Topica > > mail? Or has the list just been remarkably quiet for the last couple of > > days? > > > > John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > = > > To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. > > I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to > > the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad. > > --Jack Handy > > = > > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > > > > > > > *jeep! > --Chet > "Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you > are doing the impossible." > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
[ZION] "heck" ain't cussin
Most people don't understand well the doctrines of their church. That includes LDS members, though the active ones probably understand our basic tenets better than those of other churches. Most Trinitarians do not understand the Trinity well (most believe in modalism, a few even believe in the Godhead of separate beings). Most people float around looking for a church that fits their social and cultural strata, not their spiritual understanding. Of course that doesn't apply to us, as once you buy your house, you are pretty much stuck with one ward. For many who enjoy family here, but are looking forward to playing harps and singing in choirs in the next life, I think they will be totally happy in the Terrestrial Kingdom. It will be far greater than anything they can imagine a heaven being. Will they miss their families? Perhaps. Or maybe they'll be happy seeing others in the same kingdom as friends, brothers and sisters. If progression between kingdoms ends up being a possibility, perhaps it becomes an incentive for those who desire to grow to eventually become celestialized. I dunno. I think that it may be possible, just that it would take them "worlds without end" (DC 131) to achieve it, meanwhile those already in the kingdom would have advanced in kingdoms and dominions and glory far beyond what any Terrestrial person could ever imagine. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe chet: What's especially ironic is that - despite what their churches' doctrines are - almost every member of those churches believe that their marriages (current or otherwise) are meant to last forever. > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] In SLC 12-18 Dec
Heads up! I'll be in SLC for a week. I arrive late on 12 Dec and leave early on 18 Dec. If anyone wants to meet with me, leave me an email. I don't know how much email access I'll have, but I'll have some. Also, you will be able to reach me at my sister's house in West Valley (dude!) 969-7627. Sorry, Marc, no collect calls accepted Maybe we can do lunch or a temple trip. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Alvin and Chet
You mean some kids have more than one copy of the Chipmunk Christmas song Why??? And wouldn't that warp them to the point where all they would want to do is play video games and listen to techno-rap all day long? Wait a minute! I think I'm seeing a correlation here K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Honestly though, I thought everyone in America had a passing acquaintence with Clyde Crashcup. I mean, 100% of every kid I knew watched the ALVIN SHOW and had at least one album. *jeep! --Chet Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Are any of you having problems?
Harold Stuart wrote:
> There hasn't been any traffic for the past two days. We're losing our
> touch...
Maybe you all are losing your touch; I'm merely losing my mind.
*jeep!
--Chet ("Where did you last see it, Chet?)
"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you
are doing the impossible."
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RE: [ZION] Are any of you having problems?
I'd been just about to post a message with the Subject header of "Gun Control" just to get this list active again. John W. Redelfs wrote: > I haven't received any mail from the list in two days. I didn't notice > this until just now because other family members have been taking their > turns at the computer. The Topica people say there is no problem at > their > end. Is it possible that AT&T Worldnet is screening out my Topica > mail? Or has the list just been remarkably quiet for the last couple of > days? > > John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED] > = > To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. > I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to > the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad. > --Jack Handy > = > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > > *jeep! --Chet "Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you are doing the impossible." // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Are any of you having problems?
There hasn't been any traffic for the past two days. We're losing our touch... Harold // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] True Christian
Are you referring to the LDS definition of hell, or the protestant version? Last I looked it up, there is a temporary hell in spirit prison, where sins not repented of will be paid for by the individual. DC 132 tells us that some celestial beings may even have to pay for some of their own sins in this hell. So, that does not tell me anything concerning the level of righteousness of a person. Even the murderer/adulterer King David told us he would not stay in hell. The other hell, Outer Darkness, is a permanent place for those who totally reject Christ. Although I believe that many preachers are false prophets (some are just deceived by the world), I do not believe the majority of them will enter Outer Darkness. They don't qualify. I am not avoiding the fact of hell. I'm just not seeing your easy blanket statement as being true. Why? Because there are going to be exceptions. Little children who have never heard of Christ, but die before the age of eight are already his. Yet, they aren't baptized, nor have they really accepted any gospel, since they are too young to understand it or accept it. Both hells will be crowded, since most people sin and won't repent of all their sins (for the first), and since 1/3 the hosts of heaven already have signed up for Outer Darkness. But that still doesn't determine who is a true Christian. It only tells me who ISN'T a true Christian - those who completely rebel and sin. I can't see with God's eyes the events that have shaped, are shaping, or will shape a person's spirit. I therefore am unable to determine who is or isn't a true Christian. And I defnitely cannot make a blanket statement on it, as the commandments change for people as the Spirit teaches us higher things. Two people can be living the minimum requirements for entering the temple. One can be a very spiritual person, doing his/her very best to obey the commandments. The other could be a stake president, who has lots of gospel knowledge and knows he should be moving higher in spirituality, but has settled on his laurels. Are they both 'true Christians?' Both are worthy of the temple, yet I cannot look into their entire lives to determine which one is or isn't. What is my definition of a 'true' Christian? It is a person that is doing their best to follow the light and truth God has placed in his/her life, regardless of whether they currently are a member/Christian, or not. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe JWR: In my view, Mark is right. And Gary is still determined to avoid that fact that hell, whatever that means, is going to be a crowded place since "few" will find the narrow way that leads to life. John W. Redelfs Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] True Christians
No, it isn't a straw man. It is exactly my point. Just where does a mortal being draw the line between what is a 'true' Christian and what isn't? Your definition keeps shifting on me. You said it was someone who fully followed Christ and his living prophets. Yet, King Benjamin told us that none of us are worthy servants in and of ourselves. Does it just mean being baptized and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost? or What? If one doesn't have to be perfectly following the prophets, then what determines that line you are trying to make? Obviously, it is a line that we cannot set in stone, for it is different for each individual, given the amount of truth and light given to that person. It is on the same basis of evangelists trying to define LDS as not being Christians. They are wrong, not because we are different than they, but because it is not up to them to define what a Christian is. That is reserved to God. My definition of a 'true' Christian, is one who seeks his/her best to follow Christ and good works (including those who have not yet learned of Jesus or the fulness of the gospel). This is a person who listens to the Light of Christ (or Holy Ghost for members) and seeks to follow it. This is a person who repents when he/she realizes sin. We are told not to judge by Jesus. That doesn't mean we aren't to determine between right and wrong, but we aren't the ones to determine who will enter into heaven and who will not. That is God's job. That also tells me that it isn't up to me to decide what God accepts as a 'true Christian.' K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe JWR: Here you are committing two errors in your logic. First, you are taking my position to an extreme that I never intended. Second, you are setting up a straw man in doing so by assuming something that I never said. I never said that a person had to follow the prophets perfectly to be a true Christian. When a person rejects the authorized messengers whom the Savior has sent, he is rejecting the Savior. It is the same. Who are these authorize messengers? I speak of our missionaries, prophets and apostles. John W. Redelfs Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Teaching Correct Principle
John, You could never offend me. It takes someone like Stephen Beecroft to do that! ;-) Anyway, I think the problem lies in something that the sons of Mosiah teach us. We see Ammon and Aaron in Alma 17 set off to different parts amongst the Lamanites. Ammon finds Lamoni and offers to be a servant, makes friends, and converts thousands. Aaron and the others immediately go into telling the Lamanites what they are doing wrong, offend them, and are cast into prison. All were teaching the same truths, but the manner in which they were doing it made all the difference in their success level. Aaron obviously figured this one out, because when he went to the father of Lamoni, the first thing he did was offer himself up as a servant to the king. Only then was he also successful in bringing thousands into the Church. There is a time for bearing down in strong testimony. But Alma's counsel was to be bold but NOT overbearing. Being overbearing can be as much a fatal flaw in missionary work as being too timid. It is usually when we become overbearing, that we begin to offend people (like Aaron did), even though our intentions are good. The Spirit often will guide us to a softer approach, one that the person we are speaking to will listen to. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe JWR: I can see where you are coming from, Elmer. And you are probably right that I need to be more humble. But after a while a guy gets tired of being misunderstood even though he is speaking the truth. Speaking the truth should never prompt an argument and bad feelings. When I mean to point a finger, and make things personal, then I'll let everyone know. Until then I recommend that those who might be offended read a little more carefully and see if I have singled them out in mere paraphrasing the scriptures and the writings of the prophets. Usually they will find that I have not. John W. Redelfs Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Are any of you having problems?
I think it's just been quiet. Everyone's still digesting turkey and cranberry sauce. "John W. Redelfs" wrote: > I haven't received any mail from the list in two days. I didn't notice > this until just now because other family members have been taking their > turns at the computer. The Topica people say there is no problem at their > end. Is it possible that AT&T Worldnet is screening out my Topica > mail? Or has the list just been remarkably quiet for the last couple of days? > > John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED] > = > To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. > I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to > the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad. > --Jack Handy > = > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
[ZION] Are any of you having problems?
I haven't received any mail from the list in two days. I didn't notice this until just now because other family members have been taking their turns at the computer. The Topica people say there is no problem at their end. Is it possible that AT&T Worldnet is screening out my Topica mail? Or has the list just been remarkably quiet for the last couple of days? John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED] = To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad. --Jack Handy = All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
