[ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21
Can someone explain to me how there could be total freedom of religion with people observing the Mosaic law? How can there have been a command against blasphemy and a death sentence if conditions like Alma portrays were true? How could there have been a climate of religious freedom? The confused. Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION]
Wonderful! Stacy. At 10:50 AM 12/14/2002 -0600, you wrote: tumor benign Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 11/25/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Freedom versus capitalism
Perhaps I should add a little to this. The point of capitalism is to acquire the greatest wealth. Primary Capitalism allows one to gather the greatest wealth. Remember that temporal items are considered secondary property. Money is a representation of secondary property and thus should only be an indicator of how well one has handled primary property. Wealth is gained as the result of profit, which I define to be any moral increase in happiness resulting from (necessarily moral) actions of an individual. A moral action is one that does not violate the property (primordial [life], primary or secondary) of another. Hopefully, this will help one understand the prior post. And by the way, I spent 1 1/2 years studying these concepts prior to gaining a true stomach understanding of them, what mechanisms would be required to make the system complete, and how they could be partially applied in this society. It is folly of me to try to convince anyone that this is a valid approach with a couple of posts. Thus that is not my intent. I post these comments solely to pique the curiosity of some to enter into further discussions on some points. Jon - Original Message - From: "Jon Spencer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Freedom versus capitalism > The main point of Primary Capitalism, or what I believe is true capitalism, > is that money is a secondary issue. Integrity, endurance, commitment, > gratitude, etc. are the prime components of capitalism. Charity that does > not rob a person of his self-confidence just to benefit oneself is a valid > component of that capitalism. True charity is an investment in the society > that you live in, one that yields tremendous returns. > > I honestly do not think that the United order was properly set up, although > on my own I don't think that I could have done any better. But I do believe > now that one reason it failed was that there was an attempt to make everyone > equal when they were not. I do not believe that the UO was truly in tune > with the gospel, because in the gospel, one is rewarded for his efforts; > everyone does not receive the same thing. The parable of the talents is > right in line with Primary Capitalism, as is the parable of the ten virgins. > A true capitalist emulates Christ by expecting others to do their best, > teaching them to do so, and then making up the temporal difference for those > who try this but fall short. > > A primary capitalist pays what is due to all, especially to those whose > ideas helped him along the way. He pays his debt of gratitude to all. > Tithing is an excellent PC action. > > That's all for now. > > Jon > > - Original Message - > From: "Gary Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 6:27 PM > Subject: [ZION] Freedom versus capitalism > > > > Would you then say that there is no true freedom in the United > > Order/consecration? I think a capitalist society is okay, but it is too > > often the case that financial markets replace true freedom, which begins > > not with the pocket book, but with a respect for life and ideas. > > > > K'aya K'ama, > > Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www > > .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html > > "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's ree." - > > Johann Wolfgang von Goethe > > > > Jon: > > There is much more to this than I have given in this short quip. There > > are > > volumes written on the topic. But suffice it to say that without true > > capitalism, it is impossible to have freedom. > > > > Of course, you may have a different definition of freedom. But be > > careful, > > if you do, it had better fit into a larger scheme of things that > > generates > > freedom for all (otherwise called "liberty"). > > > > > > > > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > > Only $9.95 per month! > > Visit www.juno.com > > > > > > // > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > > > > / > > > > > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org E
Re: [ZION] LOTR Two Towers
No. A second breakfast and an elevensies. Jon - Original Message - From: "Chet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:05 PM Subject: RE: [ZION] LOTR Two Towers > Jim Cobabe wrote: > > > > All this hobbit business makes my feet itch! > > Makes me hungry for second and third breakfasts. > > *jeep! > --Chet > "Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you > are doing the impossible." > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Freedom versus capitalism
The main point of Primary Capitalism, or what I believe is true capitalism, is that money is a secondary issue. Integrity, endurance, commitment, gratitude, etc. are the prime components of capitalism. Charity that does not rob a person of his self-confidence just to benefit oneself is a valid component of that capitalism. True charity is an investment in the society that you live in, one that yields tremendous returns. I honestly do not think that the United order was properly set up, although on my own I don't think that I could have done any better. But I do believe now that one reason it failed was that there was an attempt to make everyone equal when they were not. I do not believe that the UO was truly in tune with the gospel, because in the gospel, one is rewarded for his efforts; everyone does not receive the same thing. The parable of the talents is right in line with Primary Capitalism, as is the parable of the ten virgins. A true capitalist emulates Christ by expecting others to do their best, teaching them to do so, and then making up the temporal difference for those who try this but fall short. A primary capitalist pays what is due to all, especially to those whose ideas helped him along the way. He pays his debt of gratitude to all. Tithing is an excellent PC action. That's all for now. Jon - Original Message - From: "Gary Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 6:27 PM Subject: [ZION] Freedom versus capitalism > Would you then say that there is no true freedom in the United > Order/consecration? I think a capitalist society is okay, but it is too > often the case that financial markets replace true freedom, which begins > not with the pocket book, but with a respect for life and ideas. > > K'aya K'ama, > Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www > .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html > "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - > Johann Wolfgang von Goethe > > Jon: > There is much more to this than I have given in this short quip. There > are > volumes written on the topic. But suffice it to say that without true > capitalism, it is impossible to have freedom. > > Of course, you may have a different definition of freedom. But be > careful, > if you do, it had better fit into a larger scheme of things that > generates > freedom for all (otherwise called "liberty"). > > > > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Two Towers (LOTR)
Off of the top of my head, I only know the answer to three of these questions. But what I do remember is the significant impact these books (and Ayn Rand's books) had on me. I remember: 1. The tremendous gratitude I had toward Sam. 2. The soul-wrenching sadness I felt for Frodo. 3. The absence of fairness in the world. 4. The understanding I gained that things change, and some things fade into the past without regard for their goodness or evil. 5. The anger I felt for the common man and his self-absorption and total lack of gratitude. 6. The love I felt for the Fellowship, and for the many good beings who came and went in the books. Tolkien always maintained that there was no message in this trilogy+1, that it was just a story. I do not believe this, but this approach certainly kept him out of a lot of stupid discussions. There was a message there for me, and I am grateful for that. Jon - Original Message - From: "Gary Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 6:34 PM Subject: [ZION] The Two Towers (LOTR) > Okay, then let me give you this test and see how well you really > remember them... > > 1) What is Gollum's real name? > 2) What is the name of the king's evil advisor? > 3) What is an Ent? > 4) Who is Gollum's friend that helps him? > 5) How does Frodo escape the tower? > 6) How many palantiri are there total, and how many are known of by the > end of book 3? > 7) What army does Aragorn raise to help him win a major battle? > > That should do it. If you can answer these questions, then I agree that > you remember the books remarkably well. My wife says no cheating by > peeking in a book for the answers, or asking any other source. Also, if > you send the answers to this list, make sure to warn everyone that there > is spoiler information involved. > > K'aya K'ama, > Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www > .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html > "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - > Johann Wolfgang von Goethe > > Jon: > Look, I read these books 39 years ago. I still remember them very well, > thank you. I don't have to read them this year. Stop picking on me! > (Let's see: 19-11 = 8) > > Jon > > > > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] LOTR Two Towers
Well, then, get a hair cut (pick one, anyone). Noj Jim Cobabe wrote: > > All this hobbit business makes my feet itch! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] LOTR Two Towers
We're going the first day of vacation during the day. Jon - Original Message - From: "Johnna Cornett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 1:08 AM Subject: [ZION] LOTR Two Towers > I want to see > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Banning motorcycles
Oh, come on! This one is really easy! The response is "Well, then, if you want a motor cycle, then go live with President Matkin. Now, get the dishes done." Jon Tom Matkin wrote: >Will the poor mothers crumble or at least chaff under the weight of "but President Matkin has a motorcycle". // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] The Two Towers (LOTR)
No spoilers in my answers! Gary Smith wrote: > Okay, then let me give you this test and see how well you really > remember them... > > 1) What is Gollum's real name? > 2) What is the name of the king's evil advisor? > 3) What is an Ent? > 4) Who is Gollum's friend that helps him? > 5) How does Frodo escape the tower? > 6) How many palantiri are there total, and how many are known of by the > end of book 3? > 7) What army does Aragorn raise to help him win a major battle? Gary, you are doing Jon-Boy a disservice by using trick questions on him. Let me explain to Jon: 1-3 & 7) "What" is the name of the man on second base. 4) "Who" is on first. 5 & 6) "How" has been on the bench since he got off Gilligan's Island. *jeep! --Chet "Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you are doing the impossible." // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Tumor rumors
I liked Jim's subject heading, so I stole it. Paul Osborne wrote: > tumor benign Congratulations!! You can take that second breath now, and - like some of us - try to retain that attitude you had when you began to think of your limited time on Earth as -- your limited time on Earth. *jeep! --Chet "Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you are doing the impossible." // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] LOTR Two Towers
Jim Cobabe wrote: > > All this hobbit business makes my feet itch! Makes me hungry for second and third breakfasts. *jeep! --Chet "Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you are doing the impossible." // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] another Cobabe :-)
>Paul, my dad's nephew George Cobabe says he has met your vitual self. >He's checking up on you--so you better be good! :-) I've enjoyed some private e-mail conversations with George off the FAIR message board. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Motorcycle
Let's see, a stake president who has shaved his head and rides a motorcycle. Hm I guess it's okay, as long as it is either a Harley or an Indian. Just make sure you update your will to name your successor as stake president. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Tom: Since Scott's motorcycle ownership has been given such a thorough review here, what does the list have to say about a stake president owning and using a motorcycle. I seem to remember some counsel when I was called about being a good example. Remember I live in a small town where everyone seems to think they know each other. Surreptitious use of the motorcycle is not an option. Will my being seen on a motorcycle undercut the arguments of well meaning and concerned parents mothers who are trying to keep their sons from maiming or killing themselves? Will the poor mothers crumble or at least chaff under the weight of "but President Matkin has a motorcycle". Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] The Two Towers (LOTR)
-Gary- > Also, if you send the answers to this list, make sure to warn > everyone that there is spoiler information involved. Good call. WARNING!! This message contains SPOILER INFORMATION!! Don't read it unless you already know everything it says! In which case, reading it is superfluous. But then, I'm talking to a bunch of people that participate in an email discussion list, so I'm being redundant. > 1) What is Gollum's real name? Mullog. > 2) What is the name of the king's evil advisor? Francie Ducros. > 3) What is an Ent? The wife of an Ooncle. > 4) Who is Gollum's friend that helps him? That would be Mr. Valium. > 5) How does Frodo escape the tower? The firemen get him with their ladder rig. > 6) How many palantiri are there total, and how many are known > of by the end of book 3? The same number as before I got here. If you've lost some of your palantiri, don't try to pin the blame on me. > 7) What army does Aragorn raise to help him win a major battle? An army of those fast-growing Star Wars clones. Just kidding! He probably just raised himself some army Ents. As you know, they are social ensects, and can thrive in one of those glass-sided Ent farms. > That should do it. If you can answer these questions, then I > agree that you remember the books remarkably well. About time you made that admission. (By the way, which books are we talking about?) Stephen // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Freedom versus capitalism
Would you then say that there is no true freedom in the United Order/consecration? I think a capitalist society is okay, but it is too often the case that financial markets replace true freedom, which begins not with the pocket book, but with a respect for life and ideas. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Jon: There is much more to this than I have given in this short quip. There are volumes written on the topic. But suffice it to say that without true capitalism, it is impossible to have freedom. Of course, you may have a different definition of freedom. But be careful, if you do, it had better fit into a larger scheme of things that generates freedom for all (otherwise called "liberty"). Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] The Two Towers (LOTR)
Okay, then let me give you this test and see how well you really remember them... 1) What is Gollum's real name? 2) What is the name of the king's evil advisor? 3) What is an Ent? 4) Who is Gollum's friend that helps him? 5) How does Frodo escape the tower? 6) How many palantiri are there total, and how many are known of by the end of book 3? 7) What army does Aragorn raise to help him win a major battle? That should do it. If you can answer these questions, then I agree that you remember the books remarkably well. My wife says no cheating by peeking in a book for the answers, or asking any other source. Also, if you send the answers to this list, make sure to warn everyone that there is spoiler information involved. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Jon: Look, I read these books 39 years ago. I still remember them very well, thank you. I don't have to read them this year. Stop picking on me! (Let's see: 19-11 = 8) Jon Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Tumor rumors
Paul Osborne wrote: > tumor benign Glad to know it, and thank Heaven. We have plenty of trouble already in our lives without losing control of things at the cancer level. Some of those "benign" tumors can be worrisome. Paul, my dad's nephew George Cobabe says he has met your vitual self. He's checking up on you--so you better be good! :-) --- Mij Ebaboc // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION]
tumor benign Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] LOTR Two Towers
All this hobbit business makes my feet itch! --- Mij Ebaboc // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
